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Drone VS Aircraft - Mid Air Collisions

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Drone VS Aircraft - Mid Air Collisions

Old 06-29-2016, 11:06 AM
  #51  
Chris P. Bacon
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
One so far (mid-air at the airshow), and many near misses (otherwise known in the safety trade as "leading indicators")
What's the NTSB report number on the "one" you're referring to above?
Old 06-29-2016, 11:15 AM
  #52  
Chris P. Bacon
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
You asked for an example of evidence supporting a risk to manned aircraft from drones, I provided link to Virginia Tech Engineering study.

That's a good one. Glad to see simulation being used in this area.

You then asked for a single example of a mid-air, and I provided one.

You mentioned one. You have the NTSB reference to this one?

Again, if your case is so compelling that there is no risk, put your argument into a letter to the Governor and defend the hobby.

I never said there was no risk. However, the FAA's own data on wildlife strikes shows an exponentially greater number of wildlife strikes actually occurring than from non-commercial sUAS strikes.

But, as you've said, you won't. Perhaps you can't make a compelling argument? The world wonders.

The world is in a perpetual state of wonder.
..
Old 06-29-2016, 12:40 PM
  #53  
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Just received this e-mail...


KEEP YOUR DRONE AWAY FROM WILDFIRES
There are lots of great places to fly your drones, but over or near a wildfire isn’t one of them. In fact, drone operators who interfere with wildfire suppression efforts are subject to civil penalties of up to $27,500 and possible criminal prosecution.
Here’s why it’s important: Aerial firefighting aircraft, such as airtankers and helicopters, fly at very low altitudes, just a couple hundred feet above the ground and in the same airspace as hobby and recreational drones. This creates the potential for a mid-air collision that could seriously injure or kill wildland firefighters in the air or on the ground.
As a result of unlawful drone operations near fires this year, fire managers have temporarily grounded all aerial firefighting aircraft on several occasions for safety reasons. Shutting down firefighting operations could cause wildfires to become larger and can threaten lives, property, and valuable natural and cultural resources.
The bottom line is “If You Fly, We Can’t."
Please fly responsibly – keep your drone away from wildfires.

Jaybird

Last edited by Jaybird; 06-29-2016 at 12:49 PM.
Old 06-29-2016, 12:58 PM
  #54  
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I received the same email as Jaybird, in the past has any fixed wing model pilot ever received a notice like this? I guess it has to do with the drone craze!!!
Old 06-29-2016, 01:06 PM
  #55  
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I don't remember getting this kind of notification before the drone/FPV craze. As a fixed wing model and full size pilot, I never would have even considered trying to fly a plane from dirt road in the middle of the woods next to a wild fire just so I could get great YouTube material. It's just common sense to stay out of the way and let the firefighters risking their lives do their jobs without interference or threat from some idiot having "fun".

Jaybird
Old 06-29-2016, 01:53 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
I genuinely believe there is a risk to manned aircraft due to sUAS, and it's past time to segregate them in the airspace. I'm an advocate for operational rules:

- 400 foot AGL nationally
- No flight inside lateral limits of class B or C w/o written standard operating procedure agreement w/ cognizant ATC facility
- No flight inside lateral limits of class D w/o approval of cognizant ATC facility using method preferred by the airport / tower
- Mandatory notification of all other airports when flying within 5 miles, with airport reserved the right to deny
- No flight inside lateral limits of Military Training Routes during published hours of operation
- TFRs that apply to "all aircraft" also apply to "model aircraft" whether or not "model aircraft" are specifically mentioned
- Altitude limits may be exceeded if approved by the FAA and operating under a published NOTAM to ensure full scale aircraft are notified
- Regardless of the circumstances, the sUAS operator is responsible for ensuring the sUAS avoids manned aircraft, people on the ground, or personal property.
Airports should not have the right to deny someone the permission to fly their model just because they are within 5 miles of the airport. The only time a airport should have any say should be if the airport can
show that RC operations are conflicting with traffic in or out of the airport.
Old 06-29-2016, 04:47 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by CESSNA 421 View Post
I received the same email as Jaybird, in the past has any fixed wing model pilot ever received a notice like this? I guess it has to do with the drone craze!!!
Yup, it's all about the drones. Because fixed wing aircraft with camera's weren't flying at 5 or even 10,000 feet, say 5 or even 10 years ago right?
Old 06-29-2016, 04:50 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by CESSNA 421 View Post
I received the same email as Jaybird, in the past has any fixed wing model pilot ever received a notice like this? I guess it has to do with the drone craze!!!
How would the FAA have ever contacted you in past without having your email address on file?
Old 06-29-2016, 06:04 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon View Post
How would the FAA have ever contacted you in past without having your email address on file?
LoL....you and logic....stop already!
Old 06-29-2016, 07:49 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
LoL....you and logic....stop already!
I'll try....
Old 06-30-2016, 07:52 AM
  #61  
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Franklin you need to be more worried about Turtles striking aircraft than you do sUAS AKA model aircraft or drones. There are absolutely NO stats that show there is a major threat from drones. NONE!
Old 06-30-2016, 08:35 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by TimJ View Post
Franklin you need to be more worried about Turtles striking aircraft than you do sUAS AKA model aircraft or drones. There are absolutely NO stats that show there is a major threat from drones. NONE!
You must have read the same report I did which said in part:

During 2014, 330, 18, 13, and 8 species of birds, terrestrial mammals, bats, and reptiles, respectively, were reported as struck by civil aircraft in USA.


NEVER sell the turtles short...have we learned nothing from the kids fable?
Old 06-30-2016, 08:39 AM
  #63  
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Holy cow...I went back and double checked that report...this is amazing:

Reptiles
Turtles
183
1
4
2
Turtles
54
2
Florida soft shell turtle
10
1
1
Pond slider
2
Eastern mud turtle
1
Chicken turtle
1
Eastern box turtle
11
Common snapping turtle
25
1
Diamondback terrapin
42
2
Painted turtle
19
Florida red
-
bellied cooter
1
Gopher tortoise
13
Alligator snapping turtle
1
Coastal plain cooter


183 Turtle strikes. 0.0 drone strikes. 1 plastic bag near miss/strike.
Old 06-30-2016, 09:04 AM
  #64  
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How do you have a turtle strike? Prop of fan sucking them off the ground? Or is there some strange turtle flying hobby I am not aware of?
Old 06-30-2016, 09:43 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
How do you have a turtle strike? Prop of fan sucking them off the ground? Or is there some strange turtle flying hobby I am not aware of?
They're Jumping Turtles.
Old 06-30-2016, 10:11 AM
  #66  
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I see snappers, sliders, and even a cooler, but no jumping turtles?
Old 06-30-2016, 10:46 AM
  #67  
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Here is a victim now!
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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Old 06-30-2016, 11:03 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by TimJ View Post
Here is a victim now!
Funny!


Old 06-30-2016, 11:05 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
I see snappers, sliders, and even a cooler, but no jumping turtles?
Perhaps they were all airborne while you were looking at the ground. Don't let those little guys fool you.
Old 06-30-2016, 11:16 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
How do you have a turtle strike? Prop of fan sucking them off the ground? Or is there some strange turtle flying hobby I am not aware of?
It's a new species...typically found around nuclear reactors. And this one is BELOW 400 feet too!

[ATTACH]2170508[/IMG]
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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Last edited by porcia83; 06-30-2016 at 11:18 AM.
Old 06-30-2016, 11:29 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
It's a new species...typically found around nuclear reactors. And this one is BELOW 400 feet too!

[ATTACH]2170508[/IMG]
Another one over 400', just what we need....

Old 06-30-2016, 11:33 AM
  #72  
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pics are screwy today, can't seem to load them directly.
Old 07-04-2016, 08:21 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon View Post
You then asked for a single example of a mid-air, and I provided one.

You mentioned one. You have the NTSB reference to this one?
NTSB Identification: CEN10LA487A

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.av...10LA487&akey=1

"The AMA Safety Code stated that model aircraft pilots should yield right of way to all man carrying aircraft... [emphasis added]"

Last edited by franklin_m; 07-04-2016 at 08:24 PM.
Old 07-04-2016, 08:29 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by TimJ View Post
Franklin you need to be more worried about Turtles striking aircraft than you do sUAS AKA model aircraft or drones. There are absolutely NO stats that show there is a major threat from drones. NONE!
So exactly how many sUAS / full scale aircraft strikes are you - TimJ - willing to accept before you deem there to be enough to warrant action? It seems you're willing to tolerate some, so give us a number.
Old 07-04-2016, 08:34 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by ira d View Post
Airports should not have the right to deny someone the permission to fly their model just because they are within 5 miles of the airport.
They've had the authority for a couple years now. Per [4910-13], DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION, Interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft, page 13 & 14:

"Finally, the statute sets a requirement for model aircraft operating within 5 miles of an airport to notify the airport operator and control tower, where applicable, prior to operating. If the model aircraft operator provides notice of forthcoming operations which are then not authorized by air traffic or objected to by the airport operator, the FAA expects the model aircraft operator will not conduct the proposed flights. The FAA would consider flying model aircraft over the objections of FAA air traffic or airport operators to be endangering the safety of the NAS. [emphasis added]"

https://www.faa.gov/uas/media/model_..._spec_rule.pdf

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