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I guess this FPV drone racing fad is becoming mainstream with large Pro Sports owners

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I guess this FPV drone racing fad is becoming mainstream with large Pro Sports owners

Old 09-14-2016, 06:46 AM
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GSXR1000
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Default I guess this FPV drone racing fad is becoming mainstream with large Pro Sports owners

They now have a league with a television agreement with ESPN and it was actually on ESPN main headline sports page.

http://www.espn.com/moresports/story...ting-agreement

I guess people like the immediate fly now satisfaction of drones over us traditional plank flying hobbyist... Since the average joe can go pick up self righting/flying drone and basically install batteries and fly...
Old 09-14-2016, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by GSXR1000 View Post
They now have a league with a television agreement with ESPN and it was actually on ESPN main headline sports page.

http://www.espn.com/moresports/story...ting-agreement

I guess people like the immediate fly now satisfaction of drones over us traditional plank flying hobbyist... Since the average joe can go pick up self righting/flying drone and basically install batteries and fly...
Well if you listen to one person here, these events don't really happen, and certainly don't have spectators coming in to watch, so they are not successful by that standard. And even though they don't exist really, they have to dangle cash out as an incentive.

Do you realize the difference between a drone and a MR racer? Have you flown either of them, or for that matter, ever seen the them fly?



You've been in the hobby a while, and part of at least two "Brotherhoods", so not an average Joe really. Do you think you could pick up a MR and race it? Or fly a pattern with it? No goggles, just completely LOS?

I doubt many fixed wing pilots could do it, but it would certainly be easier to do with a DJI Phantom (but even that takes some skill). I've tried the racer...it's not easy, at least not for me.

But ya, the MR racing is becoming mainstream, as is the use of drones. Would have been silly for the hobby to have turned it's back on these forms of modeling and flying right?
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
Do you realize the difference between a drone and a MR racer?
I think maybe it would be nice if you explained the differences for claritys' sake. I am not sure I know the difference, as there seem to be many opinions about this and not too many agree on the definition. If you are strictly talking about the FAA's definition, that is one thing, but you know as well as I do, that is not necessarily the common definition that is referred to on these threads.

If I try to read your post as I think you intended it, you suggest there is a difference between a "drone" and a "MR racer". If you were to ask me, there is no difference and I suspect that others here feel the same. I would like to know what the difference is in your opinion so we can start this discussion without any assumptions.

You are aware that the DRL events are races using FPV, correct? I may be wrong, but if you were to ask most what a MR racer is, they would describe something flown via FPV.

Regards,

Astro
Old 09-14-2016, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by GSXR1000 View Post
They now have a league with a television agreement with ESPN and it was actually on ESPN main headline sports page.

http://www.espn.com/moresports/story...ting-agreement

I guess people like the immediate fly now satisfaction of drones over us traditional plank flying hobbyist... Since the average joe can go pick up self righting/flying drone and basically install batteries and fly...

Great news maybe now they can get their own CBO going. They can fight with the FAA over FPV.

Mike
Old 09-14-2016, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by GSXR1000 View Post
I guess people like the immediate fly now satisfaction of drones over us traditional plank flying hobbyist... Since the average joe can go pick up self righting/flying drone and basically install batteries and fly...
And you are a person who hasn't flown a FPV drone racer.
Old 09-14-2016, 08:41 AM
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Is this not a commercial activity, outside of the recreational/hobby domain?
Old 09-14-2016, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by GSXR1000 View Post
They now have a league with a television agreement with ESPN and it was actually on ESPN main headline sports page.

http://www.espn.com/moresports/story...ting-agreement

I guess people like the immediate fly now satisfaction of drones over us traditional plank flying hobbyist... Since the average joe can go pick up self righting/flying drone and basically install batteries and fly...
Yes there are several racing quads out there like the Blade/Immersion Vortex that are already built however there is a lot of work involved with the firmware to tweak it to get it running/flying really well. It's not simply open the box and go racing.
A large number of flyers actually build them up from bare frames both racing quads and racing wings so modeling is alive and well in the FPV racing world. Some would say it's more involved than getting an ARF plane in the air.

Yes Multigp is growing and this part of the hobby is growing rapidly with events all over the world.
I belong to a group in Multigp and have been FPV flying and racing for a little over a year and I hope to get much better at racing in the future......practice,practice,practice!

Multigp is an AMA SIG, and FPV flying/racing is expanding rapidly. Like it or not it is here to stay.
Give it a try....you may just like it ! I did !
Old 09-14-2016, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by cj_rumley View Post
Is this not a commercial activity, outside of the recreational/hobby domain?
With cash prizes you would think it din't fall under recreational. I'm really not to clear on that aspect of all of this.
I'll let the FAA figure it out.

Mike
Old 09-14-2016, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by rcmiket View Post
With cash prizes you would think it din't fall under recreational. I'm really not to clear on that aspect of all of this.
I'll let the FAA figure it out.

Mike
if that's the case, how would you categorize all those events I previously listed involving traditional fixed wing aircraft, and the cash and prizes they awarded? Clover Creek, The Tuscon Shootout etc etc etc. It's never seemed to be a problem, but ever since the MR/Drone folks started doing it, it's a concern.
Old 09-14-2016, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
if that's the case, how would you categorize all those events I previously listed involving traditional fixed wing aircraft, and the cash and prizes they awarded? Clover Creek, The Tuscon Shootout etc etc etc. It's never seemed to be a problem, but ever since the MR/Drone folks started doing it, it's a concern.
Actually, this has been discussed at length on these forums. Apparently you missed them? I don't recall anyone here or the AMA/FAA providing a definitive answer to this

Astro
Old 09-14-2016, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by flyinwalenda View Post
Yes there are several racing quads out there like the Blade/Immersion Vortex that are already built however there is a lot of work involved with the firmware to tweak it to get it running/flying really well. It's not simply open the box and go racing.
A large number of flyers actually build them up from bare frames both racing quads and racing wings so modeling is alive and well in the FPV racing world. Some would say it's more involved than getting an ARF plane in the air.

Yes Multigp is growing and this part of the hobby is growing rapidly with events all over the world.
I belong to a group in Multigp and have been FPV flying and racing for a little over a year and I hope to get much better at racing in the future......practice,practice,practice!

Multigp is an AMA SIG, and FPV flying/racing is expanding rapidly. Like it or not it is here to stay.
Give it a try....you may just like it ! I did !
I tried the MR racer thing once, didn't get far. I did not use the goggles. I presume you have been a fixed wing pilot for a while, how did you find the transition to MR? Had you flown helis before? I think there are some similarities between the two, but overall it was very different style of flying. I did try a DJI as well and found that very different from the racers as well.
Old 09-14-2016, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
Well if you listen to one person here, these events don't really happen, and certainly don't have spectators coming in to watch, so they are not successful by that standard. And even though they don't exist really, they have to dangle cash out as an incentive.

Do you realize the difference between a drone and a MR racer? Have you flown either of them, or for that matter, ever seen the them fly?



You've been in the hobby a while, and part of at least two "Brotherhoods", so not an average Joe really. Do you think you could pick up a MR and race it? Or fly a pattern with it? No goggles, just completely LOS?

I doubt many fixed wing pilots could do it, but it would certainly be easier to do with a DJI Phantom (but even that takes some skill). I've tried the racer...it's not easy, at least not for me.

But ya, the MR racing is becoming mainstream, as is the use of drones. Would have been silly for the hobby to have turned it's back on these forms of modeling and flying right?

Yeah we have members who fly FPV racing drones at our club field, but they have to have a spotter; and I have looked through FPV goggles and have flown racing drones.. I would be pretty good at fpv drone racing with a good standard aircraft hud on good goggles. I do have a 450x Helicopter I still fly occasionally. I was just mentioning that drone/mr racing, it's becoming main stream... cause ESPN 2 is only one away from ESPN and 6 channels better than ESPN8....

Last edited by GSXR1000; 09-14-2016 at 09:34 AM.
Old 09-14-2016, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by GSXR1000 View Post
Yeah we have members who fly FPV racing drones at our club field, but they have to have a spotter; and I have looked through FPV goggles and have flown racing drones.. I would be pretty good at fpv drone racing with a good standard aircraft hud on good goggles. I do have a 450x Helicopter I still fly occasionally. I was just mentioning that drone/mr racing, it's becoming main stream... cause ESPN 2 is only one away from ESPN and 6 channels better than ESPN8....
I picked up his "tidbit" on your quote on my saying these events "don't really happen" let me set the record straight I said and still maintain that there's not spectators at them. Never numbers posted as to attendance. There's even pictures proving that point.
Without spectator support this will dry up and die. Sponsors will not continue to put out money with out a return for long.
Calling this "mainstream" is a bit of a stretch.

Mike

Last edited by rcmiket; 09-14-2016 at 09:42 AM.
Old 09-14-2016, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
Actually, this has been discussed at length on these forums. Apparently you missed them? I don't recall anyone here or the AMA/FAA providing a definitive answer to this

Astro
Lot's of stuff gets discussed across all the threads, what's the relevance to this discussion? I do recall one prior discussion about the issue, specifically where Mike was mocking a MR event for having cash and prizes, but when I noted that several fixed wing events did the same thing....well, crickets. When I asked Mike to explain why it was o/k for a fixed wing event to do this, but not a MR event, he didn't have an answer to the question, at least not one he would share publicly. That's why I thought it was a good issue to bring up again, since he raised the issue of cash prizes, again. Did those other discussions resolve the issue of the FAA and how they looked at the issue? I'm pretty sure he's capable of answering the questions himself, or sharing his opinion on the issue, absent a formal finding by the FAA, or not. At the end of the day I'm looking for clarity, or his rationale for why it's o/k for one group to do it, but not another.
Old 09-14-2016, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
I think maybe it would be nice if you explained the differences for claritys' sake. I am not sure I know the difference, as there seem to be many opinions about this and not too many agree on the definition. If you are strictly talking about the FAA's definition, that is one thing, but you know as well as I do, that is not necessarily the common definition that is referred to on these threads.

If I try to read your post as I think you intended it, you suggest there is a difference between a "drone" and a "MR racer". If you were to ask me, there is no difference and I suspect that others here feel the same. I would like to know what the difference is in your opinion so we can start this discussion without any assumptions.

You are aware that the DRL events are races using FPV, correct? I may be wrong, but if you were to ask most what a MR racer is, they would describe something flown via FPV.

Regards,

Astro
The best way to be educated, and understand the difference between the two, is to start with some light reading on the topic. Then do some googling for some video. Then actually trying both of them out, hands on. That's the best way I can think of to understand the difference. Although both are battery powered and normally fly with 3 or more rotors, for me the exact similarities stop there. Sort of like comparing a 10S powered hotliner that does 300 plus MPH, and a 12 foot Telemaster. Both are fixed wing aircraft, but are drastically different otherwise, imo.
Old 09-14-2016, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by rcmiket View Post
I picked up his "tidbit" on your quote on my saying these events "don't really happen" let me set the record straight I said and still maintain that there's not spectators at them. Never numbers posted as to attendance. There's even pictures proving that point.
Without spectator support this will dry up and die. Sponsors will not continue to put out money with out a return for long.
Calling this "mainstream" is a bit of a stretch.

Mike
if you look, it's really sarcasim at mr/drones becoming main stream; if you picked up my ESPN 8 reference.

Probably to a lesser degree, it will do like what WSOP and WPT did for no limit texas holdem poker. It got real big real quick and had a few good years of growth and and then the growth stopped, it went down, but now has a decent steady plateau, cause sometimes late night after watching baseball on foxsports the show after it is WPT and guess what, I sometimes won't change the channel and i'll watch the WPT show.

So i think with it being on the deuce, it will have a similar effect, not as large or fast a growth that poker got, but i can see high school kids researching stuff online after watching a DRL episode and pricing how much it would take to get in the hobby/sport.

$12 million dollar investment is a lot of money to create infrastructure and see what the ROI will be 4/5 years down the road. Those guys may have just thrown away $12 million bucks or they maybe starting a viable platform in it's infancy...

Last edited by GSXR1000; 09-14-2016 at 10:05 AM.
Old 09-14-2016, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by GSXR1000 View Post
Yeah we have members who fly FPV racing drones at our club field, but they have to have a spotter; and I have looked through FPV goggles and have flown racing drones.. I would be pretty good at fpv drone racing with a good standard aircraft hud on good goggles. I do have a 450x Helicopter I still fly occasionally. I was just mentioning that drone/mr racing, it's becoming main stream... cause ESPN 2 is only one away from ESPN and 6 channels better than ESPN8....
We have the same at ours, although some of the guys are actually racing the course without the goggles, that adds a whole different layer of complexity to it. If you already have the heli and fixed wing piece down, I bet you would do great at it. Give it a try, so far the most damage I see from crashes is a few props. Our grass is a little higher but these things don't seem to break nearly as much as my planes when I do a dirt dive.

I would agree with you that this form of flying is becoming more mainstream, just as the use of it's close brother, the "Drone" is. I don't think I've ever seen another channel start a relationship with any other kind of RC flying, but might be wrong on that. They aren't doing this for some altruistic means, they are doing it because it's popular...and there is sponsorship and advertising dollars in it. Every time a new technology comes into popularity there is a big rush to be involved in it, then it settles down and will either peter out, or start it's slow build, and eventual plateau. I think that can be said for any of the aircraft now involved in the hobby.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts after you give it a try, either with or without the goggles.
Old 09-14-2016, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by GSXR1000 View Post
if you look, it's really sarcasim at mr/drones becoming main stream; if you picked up my ESPN 8 reference.

Probably to a lesser degree, it will do like what WSOP and WPT did for no limit texas holdem poker. It got real big real quick and had a few good years of growth and and then the growth stopped, it went down, but now has a decent steady plateau, cause sometimes late night after watching baseball on foxsports the show after it is WPT and guess what, I sometimes won't change the channel and i'll watch the WPT show.

So i think with it being on the deuce, it will have a similar effect, not as large or fast a growth that poker got, but i can see high school kids researching stuff online after watching a DRL episode and pricing how much it would take to get in the hobby/sport.
LOL, we were typing at the same time and had almost the same thoughts on some issues, specifically on the plateauing nature of popularity. A couple of other things though, sure, it's ESPN 6 or 8, or even 10. I'd ask what other channel has ever done what ESPN is doing now? None that I can think of. Certainly none that devoted this amount of time to the largest traditional fixed wing style events like Nall, Clover Creek, Warbirds over (insert location here). I like your closing point though, and I think this goes specifically to what educating the public will do...it creates questions in the minds of those viewers and they seek out the answers. Some might follow that up and get involved with the hobby, which I think is a good thing.
Old 09-14-2016, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
We have the same at ours, although some of the guys are actually racing the course without the goggles, that adds a whole different layer of complexity to it. If you already have the heli and fixed wing piece down, I bet you would do great at it. Give it a try, so far the most damage I see from crashes is a few props. Our grass is a little higher but these things don't seem to break nearly as much as my planes when I do a dirt dive.

I would agree with you that this form of flying is becoming more mainstream, just as the use of it's close brother, the "Drone" is. I don't think I've ever seen another channel start a relationship with any other kind of RC flying, but might be wrong on that. They aren't doing this for some altruistic means, they are doing it because it's popular...and there is sponsorship and advertising dollars in it. Every time a new technology comes into popularity there is a big rush to be involved in it, then it settles down and will either peter out, or start it's slow build, and eventual plateau. I think that can be said for any of the aircraft now involved in the hobby.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts after you give it a try, either with or without the goggles.
I have, but not racing other members, ive flown a racing MR from one end of the runway to other doing quick oval circuits. for me, it would all depend on the goggles and hud being used. cause I can get eye fatigue fast with a inferior setup.

Last edited by GSXR1000; 09-14-2016 at 10:12 AM.
Old 09-14-2016, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by rcmiket View Post
I picked up his "tidbit" on your quote on my saying these events "don't really happen" let me set the record straight I said and still maintain that there's not spectators at them. Never numbers posted as to attendance. There's even pictures proving that point.
Without spectator support this will dry up and die. Sponsors will not continue to put out money with out a return for long.
Calling this "mainstream" is a bit of a stretch.

Mike

More denial,despite objective evidence to the contrary. Would love to see those smoking gun pictures you have conclusively showing that people don't attend these events. It's utter and complete nonsense to say that these events don't have spectators, a complete fabrication.

I don't recall specific numbers being posted about attendance at Nall, Clover Creek, The Tuscon Shootout, etc etc etc. Can I take a picture of those events without any context as to date/time taken, and use that as a basis to track participation. Of course not, but if there are a pic or two out there that doesn't show "standing room only" spectators you are trying to use that to show there are no spectators? C'mon now.

Here's a recent pic in the MA mag, also called the "rag":



Wow...a huge event like this, and look at all those empty seats! There has to be at least 100 there...right at show central? (FTE and ZAP signs made it into the pic, lol). Can we use this picture to gauge anything, other than it looks like some people were there,and it was nice day? Of course not. Oh, the article didn't disclose how many people attended the event.

Now, anyone who wants to know the real story, the actual and factual one, can spend 10 second googling to see what the deal is. This was one of the first things that popped up when I just did my google thang:

http://www.farnborough.com/public/pr...L-AIRSHOW-2016

Can you believe that? Yes, the Farnborough....the mother of all scale airshow events. Guess how many are expected to attend this expo and watch these babies fly. 80,000...

Another random pic:



Don't even know where to begin with poor spectator support leading to the death of anything.....again, at all the events I attend it's the pilots that make or break an event, the ones there for fun and fellowship and flying. Spectators are great to have, but don't make or break it where I come from. ymmv.
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Last edited by porcia83; 09-14-2016 at 10:42 AM.
Old 09-14-2016, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by GSXR1000 View Post
I have, but not racing other members, ive flown a racing MR from one end of the runway to other doing quick oval circuits. for me, it would all depend on the goggles and hud being used. cause I can get eye fatigue fast with a inferior setup.
Ya, I can totally see that. I tried the HH set up on the Vapor and it was pretty bad after 30 seconds. A guy at my club has some set up i tried on (while he was flying) and it was absolutely stunning how crisp and clear the view was, no lines, no hesitations, no vibration. Of course he has thousands poured into his gear....not for me!
Old 09-14-2016, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by porcia83 View Post
Lot's of stuff gets discussed across all the threads, what's the relevance to this discussion? I do recall one prior discussion about the issue, specifically where Mike was mocking a MR event for having cash and prizes, but when I noted that several fixed wing events did the same thing....well, crickets. When I asked Mike to explain why it was o/k for a fixed wing event to do this, but not a MR event, he didn't have an answer to the question, at least not one he would share publicly. That's why I thought it was a good issue to bring up again, since he raised the issue of cash prizes, again. Did those other discussions resolve the issue of the FAA and how they looked at the issue? I'm pretty sure he's capable of answering the questions himself, or sharing his opinion on the issue, absent a formal finding by the FAA, or not. At the end of the day I'm looking for clarity, or his rationale for why it's o/k for one group to do it, but not another.
You are either misunderstanding the discussion at hand, or intentionally trying to take it off course.

What is being discussed here is how the FAA views flying for prize $$, and if $$ are involved, is it considered commercial or hobby operations.

What was being discussed on the thread you referred to was why promoters offer prize $$ at their events.

Two completely different topics

Astro
Old 09-14-2016, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by porcia83
Here's a recent pic in the MA mag, also called the "rag":
TSK....TSK......
Wasn't it you that was just begging for everyone to keep to the subject at hand and whining about the need to take jabs?
Yep, pot is continuing to call the kettle black I guess.
Old habits die hard, don't they? 😉
How's the view from your pedestal today?
(Waiting for the pot to reply with how I have taken the thread off-course)

Astro
Old 09-14-2016, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
You are either misunderstanding the discussion at hand, or intentionally trying to take it off course.

What is being discussed here is how the FAA views flying for prize $$, and if $$ are involved, is it considered commercial or hobby operations.

What was being discussed on the thread you referred to was why promoters offer prize $$ at their events.

Two completely different topics

Astro
Actually the thread tile says something completely different from what you claim is the discussion at hand. As you know, many topics are intertwined. I see the issue of cash at events as being one of them. You'll note Mike once again interjected the issue of cash in this thread, and since he feels it's relevant to some degree, I guess I do too. It's o/k if he and I don't see things the same way right? He can always respond on his own if he feels the need. If you feel it isn't germane, or not on point, or whatever, skid responding to it all together.
Old 09-14-2016, 11:21 AM
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rcmiket
 
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
You are either misunderstanding the discussion at hand, or intentionally trying to take it off course.

What is being discussed here is how the FAA views flying for prize $$, and if $$ are involved, is it considered commercial or hobby operations.

What was being discussed on the thread you referred to was why promoters offer prize $$ at their events.

Two completely different topics

Astro

It's all about the money and how the FAA looks at it (is it recreational flying or not). That's going to decide this whole thing.

Mike

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