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Old 10-11-2022, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by astrohog
I said YOUR LOGIC is flawed, not JR's business sense. More spin and deflection.

Astro
OK, I get it. You’re looking for another online brawl. Not going to happen, I’m headed home to spend some time with my granddaughter, take my father in law to dinner for his birthday and then do some PM on a couple of models I plan to fly this weekend.
Old 10-11-2022, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
OK, I get it. You’re looking for another online brawl. Not going to happen, I’m headed home to spend some time with my granddaughter, take my father in law to dinner for his birthday and then do some PM on a couple of models I plan to fly this weekend.
No. I'm pointing out flaws in statements you make. If you take offense and want to double-down and make an argument out of it, that is up to you.

Enjoy your evening.

Astro
Old 10-12-2022, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ECHO24
In addition whatever final fine from the FAA, it cost Mikey his YouTube following. It also got the attention of the other FPV influencers on YouTube. Even if Mikey is broke some of those guys do have money, and getting YouTube ad revenue they are considered commercial operators subject to Part 107 penalties. That's part of what jacked up that fine to $182,000, at $1,5000 per offense. Encouraging others to break the law is also an enhancement. So at least in this case there's some deterrent. Going forward the FAA is going to make examples of a few of these jerks and the rest will fall in line. The drone free-for-all has gone on for a long time so it might take a while, but these so called FPV outlaws are a bunch of cowards who've just gotten away with it thanks to AMA. That's who's to blame not the FAA. It's AMA who invited these jerks into the hobby under Section 336.

As the defacto authority under 336, AMA could have said they did not consider drones or other aircraft with GPS navigation to be "model aircraft" under the 336 exemption. Let the droners to deal with the FAA on their own. Instead, AMA invited this lawless FPV faction into the hobby with documents 550 and 560, giving illegal FPV the veneer of legitimacy under Section 336. AMA didn't care that the percentage of droners who follow those rules was statistically zero, or that AMA had no control over these people. It took the droners only a few years to completely destroy the hobby. The drone "free-for-all" is even cited in the RDQ US Court of Appeals decision. It's insane when you think about it.
Unless these fines cannot be negotiated down they are meaningless. They need to hold these jerks accountable. Period.

Mike
Old 10-12-2022, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
Unless these fines cannot be negotiated down they are meaningless. They need to hold these jerks accountable. Period.

Mike
In the case on question the guy is broke. What good is an unenforceable fine? The FAA can't put him in jail over it. The DOJ potentially could but it would require a referral by the FAA. Who knows, maybe that will happen when they can't get any money from the guy. I think you're missing the point thought. It all went out of control because AMA gave these criminal drone idiots cover under Section 336 for 6 years. Drones gone wild.

AMA invited juvenile delinquents and outright criminals into the hobby. Take a moment and look over AMA's FPV documents 550 and 560 to see what a farce AMA is. Here's just one on spotters: "FPV Spotter is an experienced AMA RC pilot who has been briefed by the FPV pilot on the tasks, responsibilities and procedures involved in being a spotter; is capable and mature enough to perform the duties and is able to assume conventional VLOS control of the aircraft." Are you F'n kidding me.

Remember, until this spotter rule was codified into law by the FAA in 2018, AMA's version was what was required to be exempt under 336 as a "model aircraft". You tell me how many droners followed this rule. Zero.

Last edited by ECHO24; 10-12-2022 at 06:25 PM.
Old 10-13-2022, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by ECHO24
In the case on question the guy is broke. What good is an unenforceable fine? The FAA can't put him in jail over it. The DOJ potentially could but it would require a referral by the FAA. Who knows, maybe that will happen when they can't get any money from the guy. I think you're missing the point thought. It all went out of control because AMA gave these criminal drone idiots cover under Section 336 for 6 years. Drones gone wild.

AMA invited juvenile delinquents and outright criminals into the hobby. Take a moment and look over AMA's FPV documents 550 and 560 to see what a farce AMA is. Here's just one on spotters: "FPV Spotter is an experienced AMA RC pilot who has been briefed by the FPV pilot on the tasks, responsibilities and procedures involved in being a spotter; is capable and mature enough to perform the duties and is able to assume conventional VLOS control of the aircraft." Are you F'n kidding me.

Remember, until this spotter rule was codified into law by the FAA in 2018, AMA's version was what was required to be exempt under 336 as a "model aircraft". You tell me how many droners followed this rule. Zero.
I think the AMA made a big mistake by supporting and courting drones. The idiots being cited by the FAA more than likely weren't members anyway, I'm not missing anything. Without accountability citations mean NOTHING.

Mike
Old 10-13-2022, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rcmiket
I think the AMA made a big mistake by supporting and courting drones. The idiots being cited by the FAA more than likely weren't members anyway, I'm not missing anything. Without accountability citations mean NOTHING.

Mike
The guy we're talking about was not an AMA member. He didn't even know what AMA was, 17:20 - 17:50:
Old 10-13-2022, 04:22 PM
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Here you go, Remote ID modules for Europe, same parameters as the US, Bluetooth 1.5 km range, only $300!!!
https://www.dronisport.it/h850/977-d...rtk-h520e.html

Not universally required until September, 2023, but for you early adopters here is the free app (also available for iPhone):
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...g.dronescanner
Old 10-13-2022, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ECHO24
Here you go, Remote ID modules for Europe, same parameters as the US, Bluetooth 1.5 km range, only $300!!!
https://www.dronisport.it/h850/977-d...rtk-h520e.html

Not universally required until September, 2023, but for you early adopters here is the free app (also available for iPhone):
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...g.dronescanner
$195.50 US with the current exchange rate.
Old 10-13-2022, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
$195.50 US with the current exchange rate.
You need a better Googlator. It's $293.04, but the euro it is said will be pegged at the dollar before long. Anyway what was your point?.

Edit: It's now $292.95 - plus shipping from (Czechoslovakia?). Well over $300 I think !!! Order one and let us know, since you and barracudahockey claim modules will be easy peasy. I can't remember the last time I spent that much on an RC plane.

Last edited by ECHO24; 10-13-2022 at 06:15 PM.
Old 10-13-2022, 06:56 PM
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Wow, you’re right. I’m getting the same as you now. I don’t anticipate getting any modules. I will continue to fly at club sites that eventually become FRIAs and take advantage of the benefits.
Old 10-13-2022, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
Wow, you’re right. I’m getting the same as you now. I don’t anticipate getting any modules. I will continue to fly at club sites that eventually become FRIAs and take advantage of the benefits.
Just like AMA's fatal flaw, no concern for anyone else in the hobby. I contend this short-sighted view will result in a very much smaller AMA when there is no one left in the pipeline to replace aging members. The good news is we won't even have to wait for those retirements. With Remote ID, next year and the year after will tell the tale. We'll compare notes then.

Last edited by ECHO24; 10-13-2022 at 07:24 PM.
Old 10-14-2022, 03:57 AM
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You mistake my lack of concern over you to include everyone.
Old 10-14-2022, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
You mistake my lack of concern over you to include everyone.
This sort of thing goes way back. The diehard AMAers were up front being on board the forced membership scheme for fellow RC flyers, while AMA gave a free ride to hundreds of thousands of idiot droners like Mikey who don't even know AMA exists. Not the sharpest tools in the box it turns out.
Old 10-14-2022, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ECHO24
This sort of thing goes way back. The diehard AMAers were up front being on board the forced membership scheme for fellow RC flyers, while AMA gave a free ride to hundreds of thousands of idiot droners like Mikey who don't even know AMA exists. Not the sharpest tools in the box it turns out.
How exactly did the AMA give them a free ride?
Old 10-14-2022, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Propworn
How exactly did the AMA give them a free ride?
By defining drones as "model aircraft' under Section 336, beyond regulation by the FAA, with this in the AMA safety code: "A model aircraft is a non-human-carrying aircraft capable of maintaining sustained flight in the atmosphere". That's the definition of a drone, courtesy of AMA.

Here's how it should have read: "A model aircraft is a non-human-carrying aircraft capable of maintaining sustained flight in the atmosphere, controlled only by manual input of the operator and only in visual line of sight". Drone problem solved.

Last edited by ECHO24; 10-14-2022 at 05:51 PM.
Old 10-14-2022, 06:12 PM
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If only someone had a time machine…………..It’s too bad we will never be able to do anything but speculate if anything would have been different. However there is all that evidence sitting in the corner of the room that the FAA has made a distinction between the two and have been pretty much been leaving us alone.
Old 10-14-2022, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
However there is all that evidence sitting in the corner of the room that the FAA has made a distinction between the two and have been pretty much been leaving us alone.
Right, they have been leaving us modelers alone which is why they have mandated either installing transponders in all R/C aircraft or force us to join the AMA to fly at a FRIA site. Sounds like they are really leaving us alone to me as well
Old 10-14-2022, 07:23 PM
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What speed has been trying to tell us, is that if you don't follow the rules, and just fly as we always have, the rules haven't affected us.

Kinda like breaking into your neighbors' house. If you get away with it, the law hasn't affected your ability to do so.

Astro
Old 10-14-2022, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
If only someone had a time machine…………..It’s too bad we will never be able to do anything but speculate if anything would have been different. However there is all that evidence sitting in the corner of the room that the FAA has made a distinction between the two and have been pretty much been leaving us alone.
AMA is still bent on drones. Still up on AMA's website is their sUAS Flight Safety Guide for FPV running several pages in length (AMA safety code for model aircraft is one page), It's filled with nonsense like, "AMA FPV pilots should consider using a programmable autopilot (AMA Document#560) with a failsafe “return to launch” (RTL) feature that will maintain control of the aircraft in the event of signal loss." Something only needed for FPV miles away. AMA does not define VLOS, leaving the door open for FPV slackers, It's OK if the operator takes off his goggles and can see his drone. The FAA leaves no ambiguity, "This means that either the recreational flyer or the visual observer must have eyes on the aircraft at all times".

"However there is all that evidence sitting in the corner ..." is jargon for corporate brochures. We get it. You're fine if everyone else gets grounded as long as you can play in your little FRIA box.
Old 10-15-2022, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ECHO24

"However there is all that evidence sitting in the corner ..." is jargon for corporate brochures. We get it. You're fine if everyone else gets grounded as long as you can play in your little FRIA box.
I think its about time the AMA put members first and let none members fend for themselves.
Old 10-15-2022, 03:25 AM
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[QUOTE=speedracerntrixie;12747576]If only someone had a time machine…………..It’s too bad we will never be able to do anything but speculate if anything would have been different. However there is all that evidence sitting in the corner of the room that the FAA has made a distinction between the two and have been pretty much been leaving us alone.[/QUOTE]


LOL. Just how do you figure that?
Mike
Old 10-15-2022, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ECHO24

"However there is all that evidence sitting in the corner ..." is jargon for corporate brochures. We get it. You're fine if everyone else gets grounded as long as you can play in your little FRIA box.

There are options outlined for everyone to continue to fly in the environment in which they choose. It’s your choice to reject those options. That’s on you not me.
Old 10-15-2022, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by astrohog
What speed has been trying to tell us, is that if you don't follow the rules, and just fly as we always have, the rules haven't affected us.

Kinda like breaking into your neighbors' house. If you get away with it, the law hasn't affected your ability to do so.

Astro
Wow, talk about your logical fallacies.
Old 10-15-2022, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie
Right, they have been leaving us modelers alone which is why they have mandated either installing transponders in all R/C aircraft or force us to join the AMA to fly at a FRIA site. Sounds like they are really leaving us alone to me as well

It’s all about perspective Hydro. Has FAA shut down any events known to break 400’? Have we heard of anyone being cited for flying over 400’? We have heard of them granting some flying fields altitudes over 400’ and more in process. They have given us an option to fly without RID modules. Like I told Echo, you are the owner of your decision to reject these options.
Old 10-15-2022, 07:30 AM
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Indeed, I reject the option of AMA. The same baboons who burned down the hobby are still in charge there. There's also still time for them to screw things up further depending on how the FRIA process goes.

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