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The Poop has hit the fan !

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The Poop has hit the fan !

Old 10-01-2018, 04:19 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by NorfolkSouthern View Post
Looks like it's a done deal then. Will the Senate vote on it by October 7, though? Or will it end up being tabled yet again?
Tabling it wouldn't surprise me but the old bill went away at midnight last night. So right now the FAA technically has no authorization. And this is a simple thing for the Senate to do. Just a vote "Yea" or "Nay". No discussion required. An easy thing to get off the To-Do list.
Old 10-03-2018, 10:20 AM
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Just got an AMA Email that the Senate did in fact pass the Bill ....
Old 10-03-2018, 10:53 AM
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yeah,
the fantasy world where a group of less than 1 per cent of registered voters get the government shut down because they do not get what they want is finally over. we are back to the real world and must now learn how to live with what we have.
Old 10-03-2018, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Just got an AMA Email that the Senate did in fact pass the Bill ....
Well bless their hearts!

Still not law until the President signs the bill. And even then it's possible some portions won't take effect immediately. Still something of a waiting game.
Old 10-03-2018, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by mongo View Post
yeah,
the fantasy world where a group of less than 1 per cent of registered voters get the government shut down because they do not get what they want is finally over. we are back to the real world and must now learn how to live with what we have.
Real World? No such thing. I spent 20 years looking for the Real Air Force. Never found it. Not going to waste my time looking for some Real World that isn't there.
Old 10-03-2018, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Appowner View Post
Well bless their hearts!

Still not law until the President signs the bill. And even then it's possible some portions won't take effect immediately. Still something of a waiting game.
Actually, it can be. The President can sit on the bill, taking no action on it at all. If the President takes no action at all, and ten days passes (not including Sundays), the bill becomes law without the President's signature. However, if the Congress has adjourned before the ten days passes and without a Presidential signature, the bill fails. This is known as a pocket veto.
Old 10-04-2018, 09:49 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Actually, it can be. The President can sit on the bill, taking no action on it at all. If the President takes no action at all, and ten days passes (not including Sundays), the bill becomes law without the President's signature. However, if the Congress has adjourned before the ten days passes and without a Presidential signature, the bill fails. This is known as a pocket veto.
Well, there is that. But what are the odds? I can't imagine Trump not signing it and doing so soon.

As for Congress adjourning? The more they're adjourned the better I like it.
Old 10-05-2018, 02:46 AM
  #33  
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I'm not taking this at face value as of yet but looks like there is some hope. I will be at a pattern contest this weekend with our AMA District X VP and see what info he has.
Old 10-05-2018, 03:22 AM
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EAA appears to be on our side as well.
Old 10-05-2018, 04:42 AM
  #35  
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While I applaud any action on the part of the AMA to improve the situation. I see this as an attempt by them to gain favor for their members in the eyes of the FAA. And in so doing producing a legislative leverage with which to coerce people into joining the AMA. Or to be forced to fly under those other rules.

Then what happens when another CBO forms? Will their members receive the same consideration? Automatically? Or will they have to jump through hoops first? And if not, why?

I see a Constitutional question here and a serious law suit. One I believe the AMA has no chance of winning. The AMA may need to consider what such an event might do to their organization before they push an AMA only rule. Not that they haven't been seeking such leverage from the very start.
Old 10-05-2018, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Appowner View Post
While I applaud any action on the part of the AMA to improve the situation. I see this as an attempt by them to gain favor for their members in the eyes of the FAA. And in so doing producing a legislative leverage with which to coerce people into joining the AMA. Or to be forced to fly under those other rules.
Im not normally much of a conspiracy theorist. However, in this case I tend to agree with you 100%. AMA, for whatever reason is trying to force membership. What about john farmer who flies on his back 40 and doesn't need AMA because there isn't anything he doesn't own going to get hurt if he crashes? kind of unfair to say we have to join any organization to be exempt.
Old 10-05-2018, 03:17 PM
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As usual there are always two ways to look at things. First off what organization or as Franklin puts it " Business " does not look to increase their " Sales ". Of course AMA is looking to increase membership and revenue. I don't quite understand why that would be offensive to anyone. The same applies to leaning towards making the priority protecting the members or " paying customers " rights to continue operations as they have for the past 5 decades. Keep in mind that nobody is being forced to do anything, if you don't agree that paying 75.00 a year for AMA plus club dues is of value then you may want to consider Golf or maybe just going to Bingo once a week.
Old 10-05-2018, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
As usual there are always two ways to look at things. First off what organization or as Franklin puts it " Business " does not look to increase their " Sales ". Of course AMA is looking to increase membership and revenue. I don't quite understand why that would be offensive to anyone. The same applies to leaning towards making the priority protecting the members or " paying customers " rights to continue operations as they have for the past 5 decades. Keep in mind that nobody is being forced to do anything, if you don't agree that paying 75.00 a year for AMA plus club dues is of value then you may want to consider Golf or maybe just going to Bingo once a week.
Now that is a very "corporate" way of saying "If you want to be in this activity, plan on paying for nothing" in Adui's scenario. I'm sorry but, in this case, I'll go with the FAA's part 107 and ignore the AMA. That is just as acceptable with the local law as flying at an AMA sanctioned club. I do have an nearby actual airport that I can fly at as it isn't controlled by a tower and does have an ultralite runway.
Old 10-05-2018, 05:31 PM
  #39  
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It also seems kind of funny to hear the AMA constantly claiming how safe the hobby is, yet the insurance is one of the main selling points for membership.
Old 10-05-2018, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Appowner View Post
It also seems kind of funny to hear the AMA constantly claiming how safe the hobby is, yet the insurance is one of the main selling points for membership.
I hadn't thought of that but you're right. It is kind of a contradiction, isn't it
Old 10-05-2018, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Now that is a very "corporate" way of saying "If you want to be in this activity, plan on paying for nothing" in Adui's scenario. I'm sorry but, in this case, I'll go with the FAA's part 107 and ignore the AMA. That is just as acceptable with the local law as flying at an AMA sanctioned club. I do have an nearby actual airport that I can fly at as it isn't controlled by a tower and does have an ultralite runway.
That is a perfectly acceptable and legal way to go - just stay under 400' ...
Old 10-05-2018, 06:49 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Appowner View Post
It also seems kind of funny to hear the AMA constantly claiming how safe the hobby is, yet the insurance is one of the main selling points for membership.
The main AMA insurance is to protect the flying site owner. For them, the biggest liability is the same as for any other outdoor "recreational facilities" - twisted ankles of visitors...

Bob
Old 10-05-2018, 08:14 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Appowner View Post
It also seems kind of funny to hear the AMA constantly claiming how safe the hobby is, yet the insurance is one of the main selling points for membership.

Maybe from your perspective, not mine. The main selling point for me is the ability to attend events organized by the multitude of AMA chartered clubs. For example, I just returned home from a great dinner put on by the contest organizers of the pattern contest my club is holding this weekend. About 20 guys, many with their wives in attendance. My wife and I had a great time. As somone whom has raised 5 kids one of the things I made sure they all understood was you will only get out of any endeavor what it is you put into it. The more efforts, the more rewards. Sounds like you may be expecting to get out more then what you are willing to put in. I've seen many complaints about the AMA, some valid. I can't say I have seen many proposed solutions, at least none I would consider viable.
Old 10-05-2018, 08:57 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post



Maybe from your perspective, not mine. The main selling point for me is the ability to attend events organized by the multitude of AMA chartered clubs. For example, I just returned home from a great dinner put on by the contest organizers of the pattern contest my club is holding this weekend. About 20 guys, many with their wives in attendance. My wife and I had a great time. As somone whom has raised 5 kids one of the things I made sure they all understood was you will only get out of any endeavor what it is you put into it. The more efforts, the more rewards. Sounds like you may be expecting to get out more then what you are willing to put in. I've seen many complaints about the AMA, some valid. I can't say I have seen many proposed solutions, at least none I would consider viable.

Okay, let me ask you this then:
How much of your membership fee is insurance and how much is "Taj Muncie" overhead?
If you're paying more than 50% in overhead fees, you're being robbed. The AMA "Palace" and "Royal Staff" are laughing all the way to the bank every time you pay your membership fee since they know they are going to get part of that to expand their grounds and another part to raise their paychecks. I can pay a yearly membership fee for both the wife and I for our NAMBA memberships for less than it would cost me for just an AMA membership for me alone. Tell me where that's cost effective. The wife and I get insurance, a newsletter/magazine, can go to other clubs and run with them as well. Where does all the money you pay go that makes it cost effective to be a member? BTW, I'm second oldest of 5 kids and was taught that if something doesn't give you real value for your money, leave it in the store. I don't see the AMA as being a real value if all it does is rarely give me and the wife a chance to go out for dinner and allow me to go to other clubs. I can also pay a $10 fee and be able to run anywhere in the country for a weekend WITHOUT an IMPBA or NAMBA membership

Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 10-05-2018 at 09:04 PM.
Old 10-06-2018, 04:49 AM
  #45  
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Hydro, like I have said this whole time, if you don't see the value then don't join. It's all a personal decision. If it does come to pass that in order to fly above 400' that you will be required to be a member, you still have a choice. Your choice will be to join or to find another hobby. Sounds like you enjoy your boats so maybe best to just focus there.

perhaps a good example, I don't see the value in a 400.00 bottle of wine. I would NEVER give a moments consideration to buying a bottle with such a price tag. That is my choice, there are people that do see the value and they have no issues in spending that 400.00 and will enjoy that bottle with a couple of friends. Does that give me the right to judge them? Should I mount a crusade and tell everyone who spends that kind of money on a bottle how foolish they are? What about the guy who buys a Tesla? A 1.2M dollar house? How about the guy who spends over 1,000.00 a year on cigarettes? Are you a smoker Hydro? See my point here. You don't see the value in AMA, you have that right. You have the right to explain your reasons right up to the point where you and other members mount a group attack at someone who does see the value. And that my friend is exactly what has happened on several occasions. Now if you will excuse me I need to get on the road, I have another AMA event to enjoy today and tomorrow.
Old 10-06-2018, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Okay, let me ask you this then:
How much of your membership fee is insurance and how much is "Taj Muncie" overhead?
If you're paying more than 50% in overhead fees, you're being robbed. The AMA "Palace" and "Royal Staff" are laughing all the way to the bank every time you pay your membership fee since they know they are going to get part of that to expand their grounds and another part to raise their paychecks. I can pay a yearly membership fee for both the wife and I for our NAMBA memberships for less than it would cost me for just an AMA membership for me alone. Tell me where that's cost effective. The wife and I get insurance, a newsletter/magazine, can go to other clubs and run with them as well. Where does all the money you pay go that makes it cost effective to be a member? BTW, I'm second oldest of 5 kids and was taught that if something doesn't give you real value for your money, leave it in the store. I don't see the AMA as being a real value if all it does is rarely give me and the wife a chance to go out for dinner and allow me to go to other clubs. I can also pay a $10 fee and be able to run anywhere in the country for a weekend WITHOUT an IMPBA or NAMBA membership
Maybe this will help:

Old 10-06-2018, 05:28 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
I hadn't thought of that but you're right. It is kind of a contradiction, isn't it
not really a contradiction at all,....at least not in this sue crazy, lawyer saturated society we live. the thing is,... that without any sort of insurance plan in place, all members , all clubs and the AMA, are hanging their tails out to be whacked by any sue happy idiot who wants $10 grand because he lost a five apples when an R/C plane crashed into his apple tree..... and there are way too many of those types around, now a days.
Old 10-06-2018, 05:34 AM
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"Your choice will be to join or to find another hobby."

You vill sign ze papers!

Wow!
Old 10-06-2018, 05:59 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Stickslammer View Post
"Your choice will be to join or to find another hobby."

You vill sign ze papers!

Wow!
Yes indeed my Friend , it's plainly obvious that some are here because they love the hobby first , and above all else , and then some are here because they love the AMA first , and above all else .

Anyway , back to the original topic of my thread , I got an AMA Email yesterday that the President did in fact sign HR 302 into law .......
Old 10-06-2018, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post



Maybe from your perspective, not mine. The main selling point for me is the ability to attend events organized by the multitude of AMA chartered clubs. For example, I just returned home from a great dinner put on by the contest organizers of the pattern contest my club is holding this weekend. About 20 guys, many with their wives in attendance. My wife and I had a great time. As somone whom has raised 5 kids one of the things I made sure they all understood was you will only get out of any endeavor what it is you put into it. The more efforts, the more rewards. Sounds like you may be expecting to get out more then what you are willing to put in. I've seen many complaints about the AMA, some valid. I can't say I have seen many proposed solutions, at least none I would consider viable.
Don't assume I've never been an AMA member. You'd be wrong. I didn't leave the AMA, the AMA left me. And it's been verified poll after poll, the majority of people belong to the AMA either for the insurance or because their club requires it for the insurance. Just because you claim you're in it for the contests doesn't make it so for the majority.
Don't assume your child raising techniques are any better or worse than mine or anyone else. No house is perfect.
And don't assume that because you're into the club socialization, everyone is! No doubt, more than once while you were playing with your toys and socializing, I was hunkered down behind sand bags with my M-16 as company.

And don't assume that just because you don't see the issues and problems with the AMA, they don't exist. And just because you don't like (or can't see) the solutions put forth, doesn't mean they won't work.

Last edited by Appowner; 10-06-2018 at 06:19 AM.

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