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New marking rule - Effective 25 February

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New marking rule - Effective 25 February

Old 02-19-2019, 06:23 AM
  #26  
franklin_m
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
They have encouraged people to comply with federal law.

As for the rest of your post, hyperbole
Perhaps, but I think it's a risk to aviation safety when an organization's "Safety Management System" does not confirm compliance, but merely "encourages it." Airline A says "We 'encourage' our crews to follow the rules." Or aviation parts suppliers saying "We 'encourage' our QA/QC personnel to follow the FAA rules." Yeah right. AMA's attitude does nothing but prove why FAA doesn't send decision makers to meetings with them. Why they aren't taken seriously in discussions. I guess AMA merely "encourages" compliance with turbine speed rules? Or perhaps just "encourages" compliance with having fire extinguishers nearby? Or just "encourages" people to not fly over others? I mean Andy, where does it stop? No wonder AMA has a compliance problem, because they overtly send the signal that not all rules need to be followed.

I think it's important that the rest of the aviation community is aware of this dangerous safety attitude, merely "encouraging" compliance with the FARs (and this is a FAR), rather than taking active measures to ensure complaince.
Old 02-19-2019, 06:47 AM
  #27  
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It's been my observation that the AMA likes to be non-committal in matters like this. Not accepting the responsibility to monitor this, i.e. not being a team player. But at the same time telling it's members they probably should do it. "See! We participated!" Give 'em a trophy!
Old 02-19-2019, 06:58 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Appowner View Post
It's been my observation that the AMA likes to be non-committal in matters like this. Not accepting the responsibility to monitor this, i.e. not being a team player. But at the same time telling it's members they probably should do it. "See! We participated!" Give 'em a trophy!
Yep. And as I said, no wonder the FAA, ALPA, and the rest of the aviation community doesn't take AMA seriously.
Old 02-19-2019, 07:59 AM
  #29  
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I'll add my registration number with the big middle finger next to it.
Shut down the government.
Old 02-19-2019, 02:08 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by jollyroger View Post
I'll add my registration number with the big middle finger next to it.
Shut down the government.
Could care less about your political sentiments. Do you have something of value to add to the conversation concerning the new ruling?
Old 02-19-2019, 02:12 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
AMA has stated several times, that registration is NOT a requirement of your insurance, Clubs and CD's are not being tasked with verifying it, its between you and the feds, the analogy is that would be like them checking your car tags are current when you show up at the field.

BTW, what happens when you blow a light and hit a car, or cause a wreck driving DUI? Your car insurance still pays. They might drop you after, but they pay the claim.
This is about Home Owners insurance ... not car insurance. I am fairly certain my car insurance will not cover any claims I make should my RC plane strike someone or the property of another person. An insurance agent has a lot of leeway when it comes to denial of a claim or acceptance of the claim when made against an H.O. policy.

As for the AMA stating non-compliance of FAA registration will not void insurance, that is good to know. On the other hand I do wonder how long it will take for that to change.

Last edited by LouieB; 02-19-2019 at 02:15 PM. Reason: clarity
Old 02-20-2019, 10:38 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by LouieB View Post
This is about Home Owners insurance ... not car insurance. I am fairly certain my car insurance will not cover any claims I make should my RC plane strike someone or the property of another person. An insurance agent has a lot of leeway when it comes to denial of a claim or acceptance of the claim when made against an H.O. policy.

As for the AMA stating non-compliance of FAA registration will not void insurance, that is good to know. On the other hand I do wonder how long it will take for that to change.
Consider too the AMA is self insured for the first 250k of a claim. And this too is secondary to any other insurance the individual might have.
Old 02-22-2019, 11:45 AM
  #33  
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Most of this discussion appears moot to me. The FAA marking is to establish who is the owner of the aircraft. If we are dealing with an issue of liability and subsequent insurance coverage, the owner of the aircraft is already established. Existence of markings is immaterial, the owner is known. Now we have a fly away that crashes into someone's property causing damage, and no markings are found (FAA or AMA), then we have another scenario. Identifying the owner, and the owner finding his airplane, are now the challenges.

As a side bar, I received a message from my club yesterday notifying me that my AMA number is now required to be externally visible. As far as I can tell, this is not an AMA requirement, but a club action. Anyone else see this kind of advisory?

Regards,
Bedford
Old 02-22-2019, 11:47 AM
  #34  
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Power grab!
Old 02-22-2019, 12:55 PM
  #35  
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I doubt it's a power grab. It would be more likely that the club's "powers that be" are enforcing the FAA's latest mandate. It may be a good idea to go along with the requirement as the FAA does have the power to prosecute while the AMA has no power to do anything but collect membership dues for their secondary insurance and their mediocre, at best, magazine

Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 02-22-2019 at 02:25 PM.
Old 02-22-2019, 02:15 PM
  #36  
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posted this in another forum:

just a guess, but...

if the AMA wants to continue to pretend to be relevant, then, maybe they should drop their current number system and just start using the FAA numbers in it's place.
Old 02-22-2019, 02:54 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by mongo View Post
posted this in another forum:

just a guess, but...

if the AMA wants to continue to pretend to be relevant, then, maybe they should drop their current number system and just start using the FAA numbers in it's place.
It sure would be nice to only have to put one set of numbers on the plane
Old 02-22-2019, 03:10 PM
  #38  
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With the new rules, I'd use FAA numbers regardless since, with the way things are going, the AMA may not be around for much longer.
Old 02-22-2019, 05:00 PM
  #39  
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According to one of the common Q and A's included in the article, you do not have to register with the FAA if you fly strictly indoor, free flight, or control line.

Taking into consideration that the average - or even slightly above-average - citizen/authority doesn't care if a model airplane is controlled or not - these are legitimate concerns I don't know the answers to:

Why would first responders allow special treatment for free flight-ers? How would they distinguish the difference between sUAS's and a free flight model? What if the free flight model is a FF owner gutted (hence uncontrollable), DJI Phantom with parachute recovery and doesn't have a registration number. "Looks like a drone to me; it must be a drone!"

Take the following scenario. What if someone who flies strictly free flight were to equip their 7 lb. 4 oz. .65 powered free flight old-timer with a dethermalizer they could somehow control from the ground - regardless of how they did it, would this action be considered controlled flight or not and would they be responsible for registering with the FAA? Remember, they can only change one thing (to decrease the risk of aircraft going OOS), otherwise relying on inherent stability while at the mercy of the winds for recovery with no further control possible.

Last edited by H5606; 02-22-2019 at 05:07 PM.
Old 02-22-2019, 05:37 PM
  #40  
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You do know how to open a can of worms, don't you.
That said, these are very relevant questions that you may have to ask your local FAA office to get answers for.
Old 02-23-2019, 05:38 AM
  #41  
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What if the moon leaves orbit tonight?

We can bury ourselves in What Ifs? Not to mention impacting the color and amount of hair we have. Best to simply stick to the basics, follow the rules as written and let the occasional oddities work themselves out when and if they happen. Otherwise all you do it give the Chicken Little's of the group a reason to run around like they have no heads.
Old 02-25-2019, 05:19 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by beepee View Post
Most of this discussion appears moot to me. The FAA marking is to establish who is the owner of the aircraft. If we are dealing with an issue of liability and subsequent insurance coverage, the owner of the aircraft is already established. Existence of markings is immaterial, the owner is known. Now we have a fly away that crashes into someone's property causing damage, and no markings are found (FAA or AMA), then we have another scenario. Identifying the owner, and the owner finding his airplane, are now the challenges.

As a side bar, I received a message from my club yesterday notifying me that my AMA number is now required to be externally visible. As far as I can tell, this is not an AMA requirement, but a club action. Anyone else see this kind of advisory?

Regards,
Bedford
Are you sure its the AMA number they are requiring externally? That is not an AMA requirement. Maybe you or they are confused. You are supposed to mark your plane somewhere with your AMA number but it can be inside the plane if you choose.

An external FAA number is a requirement of Federal law now.
Old 02-26-2019, 11:31 AM
  #43  
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Yes, quite sure it is the AMA number they are requiring to be external in addition to the FAA number. Agree, the AMA number has always been required to be on/in the aircraft, but could be internal without a restriction regarding tools to access. I have no problem with the change, just curious about their motive.

Bedford
Old 02-26-2019, 11:47 AM
  #44  
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I know this has come up in the past with the AMA. But I build mostly scale. And when I do, it's usually of a specific example of that particular airplane. Most scale builders I know do the same. And if ANYONE wants me to deviate from scale to put some number on my plane................

They can read between the lines!
Old 04-25-2019, 06:33 PM
  #45  
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I posted this in another thread, thought it might apply to this thread as well so here's a paste of that post:
I know this thread has been dormant for almost two months but, in this case, I figure I can revive it for a day or two.
I stopped at a LHS on the way to work today and found an April 2019 monthly news letter of one of the local flying clubs. This club, an AMA "Gold Leader", has a statement under new business that clearly states that ANY FLYING MODEL OVER .55 LBS MUST HAVE A VISIBLE FAA NUMBER DISPLAYED ON THE OUTSIDE. There was nothing mentioned about having an AMA number anywhere on the aircraft so I can only assume that the AMA either isn't forcing clubs to enforce having an AMA number on aircraft or the club isn't going to enforce something that isn't required legally
Old 04-25-2019, 06:58 PM
  #46  
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That particular club must have gone through the process of having the FAA requirements written into their bylaws. In most cases this requires a vote within the board members of the club. In the past 5 days I have flown at club fields in Molalla and Sacramento. Neither club required me to have my FAA number on my airplane. I do however have a bunch of them printed up in my fight box just in case.
Old 04-25-2019, 09:38 PM
  #47  
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Don't know what to tell you. All I know is the club claims to be a 15+ year Gold Leader club that is requiring an FAA registration number on the outside of all aircraft and not requiring an AMA number on anything, other than maybe your AMA card
Old 04-26-2019, 01:44 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
That particular club must have gone through the process of having the FAA requirements written into their bylaws. In most cases this requires a vote within the board members of the club. In the past 5 days I have flown at club fields in Molalla and Sacramento. Neither club required me to have my FAA number on my airplane. I do however have a bunch of them printed up in my fight box just in case.
That's your individual choice, namely to not comply with a valid and lawfully enacted FAA regulation. However, you and folks like you are a latent risk to the rest of the hobby. An FAA spot check finding non-compliance will be handing the FAA all the justification they need for additional regulation. IMO, hobbists need to be seen as complying, and thus not the problem, rather than as rebels that deliberately choose not to comply.
Old 04-26-2019, 07:12 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
That's your individual choice, namely to not comply with a valid and lawfully enacted FAA regulation. However, you and folks like you are a latent risk to the rest of the hobby. An FAA spot check finding non-compliance will be handing the FAA all the justification they need for additional regulation. IMO, hobbists need to be seen as complying, and thus not the problem, rather than as rebels that deliberately choose not to comply.

I find it humorous that you would reply to me in this fashion when I have clearly said that I carry stickers with my FAA number so that if I am called on it I can easily comply. On the other hand, Appowner's response in post 44 is clearly more rebellious than mine yet you seem to not mind as he is one of your supporters. What is even more entertaining is that you continue to cry elitism and " Good 'ole boy " club yet you demonstrate the exact same behavior that you constantly criticize others for.
Old 04-26-2019, 07:46 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
...... I carry stickers with my FAA number so that if I am called on it I can easily comply.....
With all due respect , what your doing is akin to driving without the license plates on your car , but having them in the trunk in case a police officer takes offence . The simple act of operating the machinery without the identifier in view constituting a mode of illegal operation . I'm not dogpiling on you here , I'm really not , but if the law says we have to have our FAA number on the outside of our planes then that's what we have to do to attempt to be seen as not being part of any problems needing further FAA corrective action . Better than 50 years I've had an AMA number on my planes and it never once detracted from my view of my plane in the air and I'm sure I'll get used to having an FAA number on them too

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