New marking rule - Effective 25 February
#26
Thread Starter
I think it's important that the rest of the aviation community is aware of this dangerous safety attitude, merely "encouraging" compliance with the FARs (and this is a FAR), rather than taking active measures to ensure complaince.
#27
Banned
It's been my observation that the AMA likes to be non-committal in matters like this. Not accepting the responsibility to monitor this, i.e. not being a team player. But at the same time telling it's members they probably should do it. "See! We participated!" Give 'em a trophy!
#28
Thread Starter
It's been my observation that the AMA likes to be non-committal in matters like this. Not accepting the responsibility to monitor this, i.e. not being a team player. But at the same time telling it's members they probably should do it. "See! We participated!" Give 'em a trophy!
#30
Join Date: Dec 2005
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#31
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AMA has stated several times, that registration is NOT a requirement of your insurance, Clubs and CD's are not being tasked with verifying it, its between you and the feds, the analogy is that would be like them checking your car tags are current when you show up at the field.
BTW, what happens when you blow a light and hit a car, or cause a wreck driving DUI? Your car insurance still pays. They might drop you after, but they pay the claim.
BTW, what happens when you blow a light and hit a car, or cause a wreck driving DUI? Your car insurance still pays. They might drop you after, but they pay the claim.
As for the AMA stating non-compliance of FAA registration will not void insurance, that is good to know. On the other hand I do wonder how long it will take for that to change.
Last edited by LouieB; 02-19-2019 at 02:15 PM. Reason: clarity
#32
Banned
This is about Home Owners insurance ... not car insurance. I am fairly certain my car insurance will not cover any claims I make should my RC plane strike someone or the property of another person. An insurance agent has a lot of leeway when it comes to denial of a claim or acceptance of the claim when made against an H.O. policy.
As for the AMA stating non-compliance of FAA registration will not void insurance, that is good to know. On the other hand I do wonder how long it will take for that to change.
As for the AMA stating non-compliance of FAA registration will not void insurance, that is good to know. On the other hand I do wonder how long it will take for that to change.
#33
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Most of this discussion appears moot to me. The FAA marking is to establish who is the owner of the aircraft. If we are dealing with an issue of liability and subsequent insurance coverage, the owner of the aircraft is already established. Existence of markings is immaterial, the owner is known. Now we have a fly away that crashes into someone's property causing damage, and no markings are found (FAA or AMA), then we have another scenario. Identifying the owner, and the owner finding his airplane, are now the challenges.
As a side bar, I received a message from my club yesterday notifying me that my AMA number is now required to be externally visible. As far as I can tell, this is not an AMA requirement, but a club action. Anyone else see this kind of advisory?
Regards,
Bedford
As a side bar, I received a message from my club yesterday notifying me that my AMA number is now required to be externally visible. As far as I can tell, this is not an AMA requirement, but a club action. Anyone else see this kind of advisory?
Regards,
Bedford
#35
I doubt it's a power grab. It would be more likely that the club's "powers that be" are enforcing the FAA's latest mandate. It may be a good idea to go along with the requirement as the FAA does have the power to prosecute while the AMA has no power to do anything but collect membership dues for their secondary insurance and their mediocre, at best, magazine
Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 02-22-2019 at 02:25 PM.
#37
It sure would be nice to only have to put one set of numbers on the plane
#39
According to one of the common Q and A's included in the article, you do not have to register with the FAA if you fly strictly indoor, free flight, or control line.
Taking into consideration that the average - or even slightly above-average - citizen/authority doesn't care if a model airplane is controlled or not - these are legitimate concerns I don't know the answers to:
Why would first responders allow special treatment for free flight-ers? How would they distinguish the difference between sUAS's and a free flight model? What if the free flight model is a FF owner gutted (hence uncontrollable), DJI Phantom with parachute recovery and doesn't have a registration number. "Looks like a drone to me; it must be a drone!"
Take the following scenario. What if someone who flies strictly free flight were to equip their 7 lb. 4 oz. .65 powered free flight old-timer with a dethermalizer they could somehow control from the ground - regardless of how they did it, would this action be considered controlled flight or not and would they be responsible for registering with the FAA? Remember, they can only change one thing (to decrease the risk of aircraft going OOS), otherwise relying on inherent stability while at the mercy of the winds for recovery with no further control possible.
Taking into consideration that the average - or even slightly above-average - citizen/authority doesn't care if a model airplane is controlled or not - these are legitimate concerns I don't know the answers to:
Why would first responders allow special treatment for free flight-ers? How would they distinguish the difference between sUAS's and a free flight model? What if the free flight model is a FF owner gutted (hence uncontrollable), DJI Phantom with parachute recovery and doesn't have a registration number. "Looks like a drone to me; it must be a drone!"
Take the following scenario. What if someone who flies strictly free flight were to equip their 7 lb. 4 oz. .65 powered free flight old-timer with a dethermalizer they could somehow control from the ground - regardless of how they did it, would this action be considered controlled flight or not and would they be responsible for registering with the FAA? Remember, they can only change one thing (to decrease the risk of aircraft going OOS), otherwise relying on inherent stability while at the mercy of the winds for recovery with no further control possible.
Last edited by H5606; 02-22-2019 at 05:07 PM.
#41
Banned
What if the moon leaves orbit tonight?
We can bury ourselves in What Ifs? Not to mention impacting the color and amount of hair we have. Best to simply stick to the basics, follow the rules as written and let the occasional oddities work themselves out when and if they happen. Otherwise all you do it give the Chicken Little's of the group a reason to run around like they have no heads.
We can bury ourselves in What Ifs? Not to mention impacting the color and amount of hair we have. Best to simply stick to the basics, follow the rules as written and let the occasional oddities work themselves out when and if they happen. Otherwise all you do it give the Chicken Little's of the group a reason to run around like they have no heads.
#42
My Feedback: (11)
Most of this discussion appears moot to me. The FAA marking is to establish who is the owner of the aircraft. If we are dealing with an issue of liability and subsequent insurance coverage, the owner of the aircraft is already established. Existence of markings is immaterial, the owner is known. Now we have a fly away that crashes into someone's property causing damage, and no markings are found (FAA or AMA), then we have another scenario. Identifying the owner, and the owner finding his airplane, are now the challenges.
As a side bar, I received a message from my club yesterday notifying me that my AMA number is now required to be externally visible. As far as I can tell, this is not an AMA requirement, but a club action. Anyone else see this kind of advisory?
Regards,
Bedford
As a side bar, I received a message from my club yesterday notifying me that my AMA number is now required to be externally visible. As far as I can tell, this is not an AMA requirement, but a club action. Anyone else see this kind of advisory?
Regards,
Bedford
An external FAA number is a requirement of Federal law now.
#43
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Houston, TX
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Yes, quite sure it is the AMA number they are requiring to be external in addition to the FAA number. Agree, the AMA number has always been required to be on/in the aircraft, but could be internal without a restriction regarding tools to access. I have no problem with the change, just curious about their motive.
Bedford
Bedford
#44
Banned
I know this has come up in the past with the AMA. But I build mostly scale. And when I do, it's usually of a specific example of that particular airplane. Most scale builders I know do the same. And if ANYONE wants me to deviate from scale to put some number on my plane................
They can read between the lines!
They can read between the lines!
#45
I posted this in another thread, thought it might apply to this thread as well so here's a paste of that post:
I know this thread has been dormant for almost two months but, in this case, I figure I can revive it for a day or two.
I stopped at a LHS on the way to work today and found an April 2019 monthly news letter of one of the local flying clubs. This club, an AMA "Gold Leader", has a statement under new business that clearly states that ANY FLYING MODEL OVER .55 LBS MUST HAVE A VISIBLE FAA NUMBER DISPLAYED ON THE OUTSIDE. There was nothing mentioned about having an AMA number anywhere on the aircraft so I can only assume that the AMA either isn't forcing clubs to enforce having an AMA number on aircraft or the club isn't going to enforce something that isn't required legally
I know this thread has been dormant for almost two months but, in this case, I figure I can revive it for a day or two.
I stopped at a LHS on the way to work today and found an April 2019 monthly news letter of one of the local flying clubs. This club, an AMA "Gold Leader", has a statement under new business that clearly states that ANY FLYING MODEL OVER .55 LBS MUST HAVE A VISIBLE FAA NUMBER DISPLAYED ON THE OUTSIDE. There was nothing mentioned about having an AMA number anywhere on the aircraft so I can only assume that the AMA either isn't forcing clubs to enforce having an AMA number on aircraft or the club isn't going to enforce something that isn't required legally
#46
My Feedback: (29)
That particular club must have gone through the process of having the FAA requirements written into their bylaws. In most cases this requires a vote within the board members of the club. In the past 5 days I have flown at club fields in Molalla and Sacramento. Neither club required me to have my FAA number on my airplane. I do however have a bunch of them printed up in my fight box just in case.
#47
Don't know what to tell you. All I know is the club claims to be a 15+ year Gold Leader club that is requiring an FAA registration number on the outside of all aircraft and not requiring an AMA number on anything, other than maybe your AMA card
#48
Thread Starter
That particular club must have gone through the process of having the FAA requirements written into their bylaws. In most cases this requires a vote within the board members of the club. In the past 5 days I have flown at club fields in Molalla and Sacramento. Neither club required me to have my FAA number on my airplane. I do however have a bunch of them printed up in my fight box just in case.
#49
My Feedback: (29)
That's your individual choice, namely to not comply with a valid and lawfully enacted FAA regulation. However, you and folks like you are a latent risk to the rest of the hobby. An FAA spot check finding non-compliance will be handing the FAA all the justification they need for additional regulation. IMO, hobbists need to be seen as complying, and thus not the problem, rather than as rebels that deliberately choose not to comply.
I find it humorous that you would reply to me in this fashion when I have clearly said that I carry stickers with my FAA number so that if I am called on it I can easily comply. On the other hand, Appowner's response in post 44 is clearly more rebellious than mine yet you seem to not mind as he is one of your supporters. What is even more entertaining is that you continue to cry elitism and " Good 'ole boy " club yet you demonstrate the exact same behavior that you constantly criticize others for.
#50
With all due respect , what your doing is akin to driving without the license plates on your car , but having them in the trunk in case a police officer takes offence . The simple act of operating the machinery without the identifier in view constituting a mode of illegal operation . I'm not dogpiling on you here , I'm really not , but if the law says we have to have our FAA number on the outside of our planes then that's what we have to do to attempt to be seen as not being part of any problems needing further FAA corrective action . Better than 50 years I've had an AMA number on my planes and it never once detracted from my view of my plane in the air and I'm sure I'll get used to having an FAA number on them too