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How does everyone feel about the new CBO?

Old 12-14-2019, 04:03 PM
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astrohog
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Default How does everyone feel about the new CBO?

The new CBO, “Professional Modelers of America”, has stated they will:

- offer $2M of PRIMARY insurance
- will EXCLUDE fpv and autonomous, gps-guided flight (except on a designated fpv racetrack with LOS spotters)
- have carved out an exemption to the FAA 400 foot rule.

Sounds interesting to me.

What does everyone else think?

Regards,

Astro
Old 12-14-2019, 04:13 PM
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speedracerntrixie
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I am pretty excited. My hope is that they are able to deliver where the AMA has fallen short. Their initial claims seem to be a bit optimistic though, only time will tell. The big question is, are existing clubs going to recognize the insurance coverage?
Old 12-14-2019, 04:13 PM
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I think having a new CBO can be a good thing providing their members can find places to fly.
Old 12-14-2019, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
The new CBO, “Professional Modelers of America”, has stated they will:

- offer $2M of PRIMARY insurance
- will EXCLUDE fpv and autonomous, gps-guided flight (except on a designated fpv racetrack with LOS spotters)
- have carved out an exemption to the FAA 400 foot rule.

Sounds interesting to me.

What does everyone else think?

Regards,

Astro
Sounds interesting to me also , however , a Google search turned up nothing regarding "Professional Modelers of America" . Do you have a link for me to read more about the "PMA" ?
Old 12-14-2019, 04:34 PM
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Prediction: AMA will prohibit clubs from also being chartered by PMA and will also exclude PMA members from also belonging to the AMA.

See SFA.
Old 12-14-2019, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
I am pretty excited. My hope is that they are able to deliver where the AMA has fallen short. Their initial claims seem to be a bit optimistic though, only time will tell. The big question is, are existing clubs going to recognize the insurance coverage?
It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.
I would think existing clubs would be free to choose the organization that best serves their needs.
Old 12-14-2019, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
Prediction: AMA will prohibit clubs from also being chartered by PMA and will also exclude PMA members from also belonging to the AMA.

See SFA.
If history repeats itself, that will certainly be the case.
I will say that with a rapidly declining and apathetic membership, and seemingly not much pull or relationship with the FAA, the AMA is in a much weaker position to retain its members than it was when the SFA was a thing.
If the PMA’s claims are true, I know many modelers that think the PMA is better aligned with their needs than the AMA currently is.
Old 12-14-2019, 05:31 PM
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AMA is under severe financial pressure. To the tune of about 18% of their budget needs to be cut. Not only do they have to either continue to sell off investments and cut spending less than 18% ($1.8 million), or cut that much. Or a mix.

Also, they likely have to greatly increase lobbying spending, probably change to high power (read expensive) firm as they’re desperate. That puts them under even more pressure.

Any competition will make it worse. Personally, I’m all for it as I fundamentally believe choice is good. But AMAs reaction will prove whether they’re truly “about the hobby,” or “all about themselves,” I predict the latter.

What I’d like to see is a bare bones CBO. Meet letter of law and nothing more. Nowhere does it say you HAVE to provide insurance. Nowhere does it say you HAVE to have a magazine. Nowhere does it say you HAVE to have clubs all over, just a policy structure to support them if they do. No $$ on big HQ. No $$ on National flying site. No $$ on museum. Very low $$ on marketing. You get the idea.

now that would be something that should worry AMA. Capture all those flyers - overwhelmingly majority of them - that don’t need AMA at all.
Old 12-14-2019, 05:40 PM
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Has anyone found their website?
Old 12-14-2019, 06:13 PM
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define

have carved out an exemption to the FAA 400 foot rule


Old 12-14-2019, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mongo View Post
define

have carved out an exemption to the FAA 400 foot rule

Just speculation but it sounds as if they feel they can get exemptions to the 400' rule for their members.
Old 12-15-2019, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Sounds interesting to me also , however , a Google search turned up nothing regarding "Professional Modelers of America" . Do you have a link for me to read more about the "PMA" ?
Unless the OP can provide a link I smell a troll.
Old 12-15-2019, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
The new CBO, “Professional Modelers of America”, has stated they will:

- offer $2M of PRIMARY insurance
- will EXCLUDE fpv and autonomous, gps-guided flight (except on a designated fpv racetrack with LOS spotters)
- have carved out an exemption to the FAA 400 foot rule.

Sounds interesting to me.

What does everyone else think?

Regards,

Astro
Perhaps Franklin or anyone for that matter should contact https://www.nrhsa.org/ After all, the entire modeling industry has as much to lose as anyone. Collectively, they should have enough resources to create or support a new CBO.

There is strength in numbers. NRHSA Introduction - Organization Hi-lights - YouTube

Are we all doomed? https://www.nrhsa.org/NRHSA-Blog/6259983#comments

Last edited by fliers1; 12-15-2019 at 04:14 AM.
Old 12-15-2019, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by rgburrill View Post
Unless the OP can provide a link I smell a troll.
I'm not sure how far along they are on their roll out but it's true, that's not a troll post.
Old 12-15-2019, 05:27 AM
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Last edited by init4fun; 12-15-2019 at 02:29 PM.
Old 12-15-2019, 05:29 AM
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Last edited by init4fun; 12-15-2019 at 02:29 PM.
Old 12-15-2019, 10:23 AM
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Professional Modelers of America ? Looked up the definition of professional - engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime, Seems to me that would fall under a Part 107 activity rather than hobby. Without the ability to access any information regarding the "new CBO" I will take the wait and see approach.
Old 12-15-2019, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by pkoury View Post
Professional Modelers of America ? Looked up the definition of professional - engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime, Seems to me that would fall under a Part 107 activity rather than hobby. Without the ability to access any information regarding the "new CBO" I will take the wait and see approach.
And I would have to agree. If this is legit, and I'm not saying it's not, the AMA could be in real trouble. I'll wait and see how this all plays out.
Old 12-15-2019, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
And again , no info found in a Google search = post up a link if the "PMA" story is to be believed .....
Most of the information being discussed is on Facebook.

Again, its a legit attempt at launching a new CBO. It makes me sad to see the divisiveness and I don't think its going to help anyone but we will see.

The whole thing is predicated on no drones, they want to represent recreational (despite the name lol) traditional line-of-sight model airplanes and helicopters.

I know all the principals involved, one of them well enough that he's been a guest at our house.
Old 12-15-2019, 12:41 PM
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Joel A Wilson is with Gary Warren and 10 others.
December 13 at 2:51 PM · Breaking news! Our FAA lobbyists had a great meeting this week and the final touches of one year of hard work has finally paid off for all of us !!!

COMING SOON !!!!

• PMA is Professional Modelers of America
NO DRONE ZONE !!!
• PMA is a model aviation organization, representing a membership who flies LINE OF SIGHT ONLY, from every walk of life, income level and age group.
• PMA is a self-supporting, non-profit organization whose purpose is to promote development of model aviation.
• PMA is an organization open to anyone interested in model aviation.
• PMA is the organizer of annual jet rally and Big Bird Airshows in combination with a full scale show held in Iowa, located on the old Aviation Expo grounds in August every year. Also will sanction any Fly-in For Chartered Clubs of the PMA in this Great Country with Full support and event $2,000,000.00 Primary Liability Insurance, plus FAA waivers when needed at full scale airports.
• PMA is the chartering organization and is actively working toward chartered fields all over this great country. PMA offers its chartered clubs official sanction, insurance, assistance in getting and keeping flying sites and flying
Site assistance. We will also be developing flying sites all over the United States for our members to use.
• Membership means you have a voice with PMA. We provide liaison with the Federal Aviation Administration. We plan on fixing the altitude and airspeed issue by working with the FAA and not against them.
PMA also works with local governments, zoning boards, and parks departments to promote the interests of local chartered clubs.

• For more information, contact PR Rep. Joel A Wilson/ Professional Modelers of America, 6010 Cliffland Rd Ottumwa, Iowa 52501. Contact number: 641-680-9375 email flyottumwa@gmail.com

PMA VISION FOR THE FUTURE

We, the PMA will take model aviation into the future and protect this hobby from detrimental regulations and politics.
PMA will always have the ear of the modeler and help preserve the hobby for all ages and race in future model aviation. This will be our mission, and accomplice by the following:
• A partnership with leaders of the manufactures and government.
$2,000,000.00 PRIMARY LIABLITY INSURANCE
Making your current Field certified by the FAA and Protected!
• A clear understanding of the issues at hand and deal with them; listening to the member with an open mind.
• A leadership team that is aware and current on the hobby, and can respect the hobby and promote it to the youth of this great country. A leadership team that goes to events, and supports the PMA”s vision for the future vision for and the development of this hobby

PMA Mission Statement

The Professional Modelers of America was formed by modelers for modelers to: Promote, develop, educate, advance, and provide safety among modeling activities.
The PMA provides leadership, organization, communication, protection, representation, recognition, education and development of the future for modelers.
Old 12-15-2019, 12:55 PM
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Well, a Facebook search also yields nothing. Must be a discussion inside some other grouping. Despite what we may hope, it is hard to believe that the FAA will end up giving just one CBO a "carve out" of altitude restrictions. Either there will be a process for all to follow to get an exemption, or (more likely) it will be the same for all - which seems to be the current direction.

Later edit:
Written just as the above was being also posted. So apparently not a defined structure to the group yet, who apparently have filed to be recognized as a CBO, and are working on getting an insurance binder. Neither of which are in place yet. Very, very early days for a small group of guys who have dreams....

Last edited by tedsander; 12-15-2019 at 01:49 PM.
Old 12-15-2019, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by tedsander View Post
Well, a Facebook search also yields nothing. Must be a discussion inside some other grouping. Despite what we may hope, it is hard to believe that the FAA will end up giving just one CBO a "carve out" of altitude restrictions. Either there will be a process for all to follow to get an exemption, or (more likely) it will be the same for all - which seems to be the current direction.
I got this from Facebook
Joel A Wilson is with Gary Warren and 10 others.
December 13 at 2:51 PM · Breaking news! Our FAA lobbyists had a great meeting this week and the final touches of one year of hard work has finally paid off for all of us !!!

COMING SOON !!!!

• PMA is Professional Modelers of America
NO DRONE ZONE !!!
• PMA is a model aviation organization, representing a membership who flies LINE OF SIGHT ONLY, from every walk of life, income level and age group.
• PMA is a self-supporting, non-profit organization whose purpose is to promote development of model aviation.
• PMA is an organization open to anyone interested in model aviation.
• PMA is the organizer of annual jet rally and Big Bird Airshows in combination with a full scale show held in Iowa, located on the old Aviation Expo grounds in August every year. Also will sanction any Fly-in For Chartered Clubs of the PMA in this Great Country with Full support and event $2,000,000.00 Primary Liability Insurance, plus FAA waivers when needed at full scale airports.
• PMA is the chartering organization and is actively working toward chartered fields all over this great country. PMA offers its chartered clubs official sanction, insurance, assistance in getting and keeping flying sites and flying
Site assistance. We will also be developing flying sites all over the United States for our members to use.
• Membership means you have a voice with PMA. We provide liaison with the Federal Aviation Administration. We plan on fixing the altitude and airspeed issue by working with the FAA and not against them.
PMA also works with local governments, zoning boards, and parks departments to promote the interests of local chartered clubs.

• For more information, contact PR Rep. Joel A Wilson/ Professional Modelers of America, 6010 Cliffland Rd Ottumwa, Iowa 52501. Contact number: 641-680-9375 email flyottumwa@gmail.com

PMA VISION FOR THE FUTURE

We, the PMA will take model aviation into the future and protect this hobby from detrimental regulations and politics.
PMA will always have the ear of the modeler and help preserve the hobby for all ages and race in future model aviation. This will be our mission, and accomplice by the following:
• A partnership with leaders of the manufactures and government.
$2,000,000.00 PRIMARY LIABLITY INSURANCE
Making your current Field certified by the FAA and Protected!
• A clear understanding of the issues at hand and deal with them; listening to the member with an open mind.
• A leadership team that is aware and current on the hobby, and can respect the hobby and promote it to the youth of this great country. A leadership team that goes to events, and supports the PMA”s vision for the future vision for and the development of this hobby

PMA Mission Statement

The Professional Modelers of America was formed by modelers for modelers to: Promote, develop, educate, advance, and provide safety among modeling activities.
The PMA provides leadership, organization, communication, protection, representation, recognition, education and development of the future for modelers.
Old 12-15-2019, 01:30 PM
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Last edited by fliers1; 12-15-2019 at 01:35 PM.
Old 12-15-2019, 01:56 PM
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If the AMA is to survive, it's going to have to let go of the flying site, museum, and big headquarters. I can see still having a physical base of operations in Indiana, but younger people (under 40) just don't value the central property for events and don't want their dues paying for it. The AMA has to become more mobile- a coordinator and promoter of contests wherever they can happen and a presence in the local club scene. In that structure, the DVPs would be much more important than they currently are.
If the AMA will do that, this new organization won't ever get off the ground. Nobody will be able to match AMA's price on insurance, and I highly doubt anyone could start an organization that promotes the hobby as well as the AMA does and traditionally has. This new group, if it even gets going, will be little more than an insurance agent.
I also think it's unfair to criticize the AMA in advance if they choose their own survival instead of going bankrupt with lobbying efforts. Of course they will choose to survive. They can't very well support the hobby if they can't pay salaries can they?
Old 12-15-2019, 02:20 PM
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Thank You very much to both Andy and fliers 1 for the info , I really appreciate it !

Just so everyone knows , no I do NOT want to see this new or any other upstart CBO be the end of the AMA . With a directly competing CBO to the AMA on the horizon I'd like to see the AMA rise to the challenge , tighten it's belt , and keep it's members by offering true value VS doing things like attempting to force folks to be members .
Interesting times ahead , that's for sure ...

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