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Old 01-05-2020, 05:27 PM
  #26  
speedracerntrixie
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It's too bad that you had that experience with a club. Unfortunately there are times when people who don't have leadership qualities are at times put into a leadership position. This has happened to be a couple times along my career. Guys that cared more about demonstrating that they were the boss more then they cared about the quality of the product being produced. As I said I too have had a run in or two with these types, I just don't let them have any influence over my actions. You may have seen some of that attitude come through here.

I was once at my home field in Ca. About a year ago and was flying an electric powered sailplane. I was landing in the grass downwind of the pilot stations. A new member saw me doing this and followed suit. The second time he landed a seasoned member approached him and in a stern voice asked " Do you know our rules "? The new member was somewhat dumbfounded and didn't answer right away so the club member felt the need to repeat himself with just a little more authority. That's when I got close enough and explained that I was doing the same thing so the new member had gotten the impression that it was OK. I proceeded to explain that I felt it was a safer option then landing on the grass on the other side of the runway and having to cross the runway to retrieve. I told the club member that the responsibility of the situation fell onto me but...........that he did not have to be a jerk to get his message across ( I actually used a different term ). He then proceeded to attempt to lecture me about safety until I interrupted him and point blank told him he had no right to preach to me about safety. I then proceeded to remind him of the time he walked in front of me while I was landing, the time he had a mid-air while racing and continued to race and worse of all, when he went to take off going across the runway without doing an proper pre flight and did a 180 right into the pitts where I had to jump over his airplane to avoid being hit.

So my point is two fold here. One I didn't judge the entire club based on this one idiot. Two I did not let this idiot stop me from going to the field and enjoying my hobby. Unfortunately for you the idiot had some clout.

Old 01-05-2020, 11:34 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
I would also like to understand why those who do have a club site close choose not to join.
1) Expense v. Distance v. What you get for the money. Rough grass field 20 plus minutes one way (worse in football traffic or construction stoppages) and $100 a year for it

2) Not a fan of having large gas powered 3D flyer (30 cc as I recall) point sUAS directly at flight line at high speed and pull into a hover 50 feet in front of my kids face.
Old 01-05-2020, 11:45 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
I've been there. It's not a dump, but it is far from a "taj". I assume those who use that name have never actually been there.
Made ten PCS moves in my career. Drove within 50 miles on 9 of them. Never even considered stopping.

(1) NOTHING there interesting enough to justify side trip except for people that eat live and breathe toy planes.

(2) I care about the history of a lot of things. Oooo. A 50’s era model. Yeah right. If I’m going to go go see something in Indiana, the entire family likes auto racing. And 500 is nearby.

And above says nothing about my enjoy and participation in the hobby. It’s entirely possible to participate and not give a rat’s behind about a very narrow focus museum off the beaten path.
Old 01-05-2020, 11:47 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
First off, whatever AMA happens to get for their members will spill off onto everyone. This holds true for victories and failures. Secondly if the only CBO able to obtain FRIA sites ends up being the AMA, you are more then welcome to join and benifit what they had accomplished prior to your joining.
Just be sure to bring your wallet. $75 a year tithe to AMA plus as much or more to many clubs. Year after year after year.
Old 01-06-2020, 05:27 AM
  #30  
speedracerntrixie
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
1) Expense v. Distance v. What you get for the money. Rough grass field 20 plus minutes one way (worse in football traffic or construction stoppages) and $100 a year for it

2) Not a fan of having large gas powered 3D flyer (30 cc as I recall) point sUAS directly at flight line at high speed and pull into a hover 50 feet in front of my kids face.

The second issue should not have happened and you had every right to be upset. I know I would have been. Why not stick with the club and lobby against such activity? You have voiced negative opinions about that sort of poor behavior happening all over the country why not start with your own backyard?

issue 1, being that somone was flying a 30cc 3D type airplane leads me to beleive the runway condition wasn't all that bad. Those airplanes are known to be a bit fragile especially around the gear mounts. If I'm not mistaken you do fly helicopters as well that would bit have been affected by a rough surface.

Old 01-06-2020, 07:54 AM
  #31  
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Speed, I've been to several flying fields in the Seattle area. They ranged from nicely paved(the exception to the norm), golf green quality short cut down to what looked like mowed weeds. I'll bet you can figure out which one's had the highest fees as well as the nicest members. Unfortunately, most have shut down over the years due to one thing or another.
This may sound strange but the best(i.e. friendliest) modeler I was ever around had outfitted his full sized C-172 with antennas and flew a large(don't remember the scale) FG DF F-16 from it while a pilot friend got his air time in flying the Cessna. He flew from a now closed Navy training base that had a full ILS runway, with the full permission/cooperation of the base commander. He lost the R/C one weekend when he let me go up with him. It was a short flight as he pulled too many "G"s with an almost full fuel load, breaking the main spar. The wing folded and the fighter went down, shattering on a taxiway. Needless to say, we landed, swept up the taxiway and let the guy flying the Cessna finish his T&G's as we returned to the parking lot to sort out what was left, which proved to be not much considering the plane went down from 1500 feet AGL.
One additional note, this was back in the fall of 1982 so what was allowed then is most definitely not allowed now
Old 01-06-2020, 07:54 AM
  #32  
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Chartering an AMA club isn't exactly hard! I am a club secretary and handle the chartering thing every year. I would think the only downside is you need at least two or three members so you can share the official duty's. Charter fee is minimal and the main requirements are to belong to the AMA and follow the safety rules. I know that is a non starter for some but then don't complain, get the IFF installed on your aircraft and fly anywhere. No one is forcing you to join the AMA.
Larry
Old 01-06-2020, 11:27 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by warningshot View Post
What, if anything, is the AMA doing to help the AMA non-club members to be able to keep flying under the new FAA rules that are on the way? I contacted AMA but they have not returned my phone call.
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Chartering an AMA club isn't exactly hard! I am a club secretary and handle the chartering thing every year. I would think the only downside is you need at least two or three members so you can share the official duty's. Charter fee is minimal and the main requirements are to belong to the AMA and follow the safety rules. I know that is a non starter for some but then don't complain, get the IFF installed on your aircraft and fly anywhere. No one is forcing you to join the AMA.
Larry
The Man who started this thread already IS AMA , so the whole "No one is forcing you to join the AMA" line is nothing but chaff . Not a very polite way to address a fellow AMA member , now is it ?

And maybe he doesn't WANT to start a club ! What if perhaps he has a huge chunk of land and wants nothing more than to fly from the peace & quiet of his own property ?

Shouldn't he feel just as represented in his interests to the RC skies as his fellow AMA member club flyers do , or is an AMA member who doesn't fly at a club some kind of lower class AMA member not deserving the same level of representation as the club flying AMA member gets ?????

Last edited by init4fun; 01-06-2020 at 11:30 AM.
Old 01-06-2020, 12:56 PM
  #34  
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If he flies by himself on his own land and has homeowners insurance what does he belong to the AMA for? Maybe it's for access to events that require AMA membership? Probably not. Maybe it's for the companionship of fellow modelers, I forgot, he flies by himself for the peace and quiet. Then tell me, why should he care what the AMA does or doesn't do? Just put the required id equipment and fly and stop griping about the AMA.
Larry
Old 01-06-2020, 01:24 PM
  #35  
mongo
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
If he flies by himself on his own land and has homeowners insurance what does he belong to the AMA for? Maybe it's for access to events that require AMA membership? Probably not. Maybe it's for the companionship of fellow modelers, I forgot, he flies by himself for the peace and quiet. Then tell me, why should he care what the AMA does or doesn't do? Just put the required id equipment and fly and stop griping about the AMA.
Larry
that tells ya just about everything ya need to know about larry, don't it, init...
Old 01-06-2020, 01:38 PM
  #36  
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Nice try Mongo
Old 01-06-2020, 03:07 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by mongo View Post
that tells ya just about everything ya need to know about larry, don't it, init...
Yes Mongo , It tells me that sadly Larry appears to think only HIS type of flying situation is worthy of respect and protection , and that guys like Warningshot are somehow a lower class of RC modeler than he is . Quite frankly I'm disgusted to see a fellow AMA member act so elitist towards another AMA member , such a snobby attitude has no place in our organization and I'm left wondering how many prospective new RCers people with attitudes like that have driven away from the hobby over the years .

I have seen Warningshot's posts here for quite some time , and as a fellow AMA member he does have MY respect as a man just as worthy of his AMA membership as any other AMA member , no matter what patch of ground happens to be being flown from , be it a club field or his own backyard !

You blew it here Larry , and you owe both Warningshot AND the AMA itself an apology for the crass attitude you've shown a fellow AMA member .
Old 01-06-2020, 04:33 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
The second issue should not have happened and you had every right to be upset. I know I would have been. Why not stick with the club and lobby against such activity? You have voiced negative opinions about that sort of poor behavior happening all over the country why not start with your own backyard?

issue 1, being that somone was flying a 30cc 3D type airplane leads me to beleive the runway condition wasn't all that bad. Those airplanes are known to be a bit fragile especially around the gear mounts. If I'm not mistaken you do fly helicopters as well that would bit have been affected by a rough surface.
The reason I don’t want “to start with my own back yard” and “lobby against such activity” is why bother? Maybe I don’t think it’s worth my time. Maybe I just don’t want to. Maybe the field quality isn’t worth the time it would take or the pushback?

As for your second comment, what may be “not all that rough” for a 30 cc plane is really rough for a .40 or .20 size. Another example of the elitist assumption that everyone flies large things or should fly large things. What about flying what I like to fly? Sorry it doesn’t meet your standards of what an AMA true believer should fly, but I thought the idea was to be open to everyone? Or is it only to everyone that flies big stuff?

Did it ever occur to you that maybe I don’t want to fly big stuff, because I enjoy the challenge of smaller stuff? You wording would also indicate that maybe I’m expected to change what I fly to match the field. Seems a field that’s suitable on for a limited size/type of stuff has a rather narrow customer base. Then add the dangerous behavior example and cost ... and it’s not worth it. Oh, and before you say “work to make the field smoother”, it’s a full scale grass field and the club does not own the land. And before you say “find another field,” those are even further away, 45 minutes to an hour. Nope. Not worth the drive.

And yes, while I do fly helos, I also fly FW. As I said, I like flying smaller things. I think it makes me better because they are more affected by the wind. I know it really improved my landing skills flying .25 size and smaller RC (including .049 RC).

Last edited by franklin_m; 01-06-2020 at 04:38 PM.
Old 01-06-2020, 04:42 PM
  #39  
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Guys, grow up! If you have spent anytime on this forum you will know that it is nothing but a sounding board for people mad at the AMA for perceived slights. Those with real issues with the AMA or it's policies hardly waste their time name calling on this forum, first off they join or belong to the AMA which I doubt most of the posters here do, second if you have real issues take it up with the officers. My interactions with the AMA as a club officer have always been courteous and businesslike. I belong because I want to fly at our club field, need the insurance as a backup and like competition. Having been on RCU for a real long time I always look forward to reading this
forum for it's entertainment value, there is always more heat than light. By the way I have given the FAA my views on the proposed regulations and I supported the position of the AMA and non AMA flier, how about you other guys?
Larry
Old 01-06-2020, 06:15 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
If he flies by himself on his own land and has homeowners insurance what does he belong to the AMA for? Maybe it's for access to events that require AMA membership? Probably not. Maybe it's for the companionship of fellow modelers, I forgot, he flies by himself for the peace and quiet. Then tell me, why should he care what the AMA does or doesn't do? Just put the required id equipment and fly and stop griping about the AMA.
Larry
I belong to AMA because it was needed when I wanted to fly at AMA events. So Larry you are way off base. As an AMA member why should I not care? Once you come down off your high and mighty post maybe we can talk like adults. Until then maybe you should find another hobby to be in.
Old 01-06-2020, 07:17 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by warningshot View Post
I belong to AMA because it was needed when I wanted to fly at AMA events. So Larry you are way off base. As an AMA member why should I not care? Once you come down off your high and mighty post maybe we can talk like adults. Until then maybe you should find another hobby to be in.
Sorry warningshot my reply was to Franklin and Mongo and the other non AMA members who frequent this forum, it was not directed at you, should have quoted them in the reply.
Have you sent in the response to the FAA that was emailed to all AMA members today? There is a form letter you can send and a link to the FAA response site which you can access from the email. You can edit the form letter to add your own comments, I did. You will notice that it specifically addresses your problems as an AMA member not flying at a club site. Again my comments may have seemed to be directed at you but it was my mistake not making that clear and with over 50 years in AMA I really am not going to find another hobby and my high horse was well earned having to deal with our local guys who want no part of any organization or rules but who are glad to sneak in and use our club facilities when no one is around. We actually had to run one off last year who was going to fly his full size kit fox ultralight from our rc field. Very frustrating
Larry
Old 01-06-2020, 07:18 PM
  #42  
speedracerntrixie
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
The reason I don’t want “to start with my own back yard” and “lobby against such activity” is why bother? Maybe I don’t think it’s worth my time. Maybe I just don’t want to. Maybe the field quality isn’t worth the time it would take or the pushback?

As for your second comment, what may be “not all that rough” for a 30 cc plane is really rough for a .40 or .20 size. Another example of the elitist assumption that everyone flies large things or should fly large things. What about flying what I like to fly? Sorry it doesn’t meet your standards of what an AMA true believer should fly, but I thought the idea was to be open to everyone? Or is it only to everyone that flies big stuff?

Did it ever occur to you that maybe I don’t want to fly big stuff, because I enjoy the challenge of smaller stuff? You wording would also indicate that maybe I’m expected to change what I fly to match the field. Seems a field that’s suitable on for a limited size/type of stuff has a rather narrow customer base. Then add the dangerous behavior example and cost ... and it’s not worth it. Oh, and before you say “work to make the field smoother”, it’s a full scale grass field and the club does not own the land. And before you say “find another field,” those are even further away, 45 minutes to an hour. Nope. Not worth the drive.

And yes, while I do fly helos, I also fly FW. As I said, I like flying smaller things. I think it makes me better because they are more affected by the wind. I know it really improved my landing skills flying .25 size and smaller RC (including .049 RC).







Typical 3D airplane construction. Not much structure. The plate with the 4 screws is the landing gear mount.
Franklin, my comments had nothing to do with the size of airplane that you prefer to fly. My comment was pointing out the fact that the gas powered 3D type airplanes to achieve the required light wing loadings are quite fragile and do not do well on a rough surface. If that type of airplane had no issues with the runway surface then it is doubtful something like an Apprentice or Timber size airplane would not have either. Size of the airplane really has nothing to do with it. Are you somehow under the impression that back in 1977 I was learing to fly on a giant scale airplane? There was nothing Elitest about my comments so no you can't cry foul, maybe next time actually read what I have written without that chip on your shoulder.
Old 01-06-2020, 08:15 PM
  #43  
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and yes, i am an AMA member larry.
since 1963.
leader member admin
leader member scientific
contest director
i do not know if Franklin re upped for 2020 or not, but i did.
Old 01-06-2020, 11:41 PM
  #44  
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The biggest obstacle our club faces is keeping the grass short enough for the very popular electric park fliers. Even cutting the grass every 3 days there's no way the typical 2" wheels can push through the thick grass, so there tends to be many planes nose forward which seems to be a real ego breaker. The flip side is that only 10 percent of our members ever want to do any field maintenance or spend extra money to improve the field conditions. So it becomes a fine line to keep everyone happy. I suspect most smaller clubs have similar issues. Unfortunately the brunt of the volunteer work falls on the very few. It's very easy for that small group to become burnt out trying to keep everyone happy. All we can do is keep trying to do our best.
Old 01-07-2020, 04:28 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post

Typical 3D airplane construction. Not much structure. The plate with the 4 screws is the landing gear mount.
Franklin, my comments had nothing to do with the size of airplane that you prefer to fly. My comment was pointing out the fact that the gas powered 3D type airplanes to achieve the required light wing loadings are quite fragile and do not do well on a rough surface. If that type of airplane had no issues with the runway surface then it is doubtful something like an Apprentice or Timber size airplane would not have either. Size of the airplane really has nothing to do with it. Are you somehow under the impression that back in 1977 I was learing to fly on a giant scale airplane? There was nothing Elitest about my comments so no you can't cry foul, maybe next time actually read what I have written without that chip on your shoulder.
You weren’t there, so you cant say whether the above “typical” is indeed even close. What I can say is that it was completely frustrating flying anything from my fleet off that grass. Two different 40 size and one 25 size were utter frustration. You can either believe me or not. Your choice. But it is one major part of the reason I’m not a member. $100 a year for rough grass was just not worth it. Especially when you add 20 minutes or more each way.

And yes, the comments were elitist. The same virtue signaling tone that runs through all your posts. Keep giving your money to a dying organization. Continue looking past their mismanagement because “they’re the only ones....” Their strategy failed. They’ve become relegated to trying to find something positive to say about every failure with the FAA. Pathetic desperation to try and be relevant when everything they touch turns to mud.
Old 01-07-2020, 05:25 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Tipover View Post
The biggest obstacle our club faces is keeping the grass short enough for the very popular electric park fliers. Even cutting the grass every 3 days there's no way the typical 2" wheels can push through the thick grass, so there tends to be many planes nose forward which seems to be a real ego breaker. The flip side is that only 10 percent of our members ever want to do any field maintenance or spend extra money to improve the field conditions. So it becomes a fine line to keep everyone happy. I suspect most smaller clubs have similar issues. Unfortunately the brunt of the volunteer work falls on the very few. It's very easy for that small group to become burnt out trying to keep everyone happy. All we can do is keep trying to do our best.










Since moving to Oregon my home field is also grass. It gets mowed once a week. I agree that it does typically fall upon the same few guys, my work schedule prevents me from participating unfortunately. However showing appreciation to those who do the field upkeep goes a long way with them.


There are techniques that greatly help when flying off grass. Most of what I fly is my pattern airplane that weighs 11.5lbs and has 2.25" wheels. The combination of the airplane weight and small wheels is about the worse combination for grass. The technique is pretty simple, just hold up elevator and ease into the power. Keeping the wing at a positive AOA during the take off run will lighten the load on the wheels faster. As you gain speed you can ease off the elevator some and when the airplane has flying speed it will leave the ground. The trick is to not have too much elevator input at lift off and create a stall.
Old 01-07-2020, 06:14 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
my high horse was well earned having to deal with our local guys who want no part of any organization or rules but who are glad to sneak in and use our club facilities when no one is around. We actually had to run one off last year who was going to fly his full size kit fox ultralight from our rc field. Very frustrating
Larry
As long as you are willing to stereotype every member who posts here, it sounds like you are the typical, “angry old guy” (polite term) who likes to run their club by the, “Good ole boy” rules.

I wonder why you are so angry that ONE guy wanted to use your field to enjoy the wonders of flight ( isn’t that what our fields are there for in the first place?). I would think that his flying activities would be a welcome and beneficial part of your FLYING club.

Regards,

Astro

Old 01-07-2020, 06:20 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
just hold up elevator and ease into the power. Keeping the wing at a positive AOA during the take off run will lighten the load on the wheels faster. As you gain speed you can ease off the elevator some and when the airplane has flying speed it will leave the ground. The trick is to not have too much elevator input at lift off and create a stall.
Does anyone else find it pretentious and offensive how Speedy resorts to giving takeoff lessons to a handful of highly skilled and experienced modelers, in an AMA forum, to try and discredit a fellow member with whom he doesn’t agree on a completely unrelated subject?

That is a practice that I would like to see banned on this site, as it just doesn’t lend to having beneficial discussions on what are usually already controversial topics.

Regards,

Astro
Old 01-07-2020, 08:41 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Guys, grow up! If you have spent anytime on this forum you will know that it is nothing but a sounding board for people mad at the AMA for perceived slights. Those with real issues with the AMA or it's policies hardly waste their time name calling on this forum, first off they join or belong to the AMA which I doubt most of the posters here do, second if you have real issues take it up with the officers. My interactions with the AMA as a club officer have always been courteous and businesslike. I belong because I want to fly at our club field, need the insurance as a backup and like competition. Having been on RCU for a real long time I always look forward to reading this
forum for it's entertainment value, there is always more heat than light. By the way I have given the FAA my views on the proposed regulations and I supported the position of the AMA and non AMA flier, how about you other guys?
Larry
Larry that is why there is only a couple of dozen who bother to participate in any of these AMA topics. Out of how many thousand members of this forum and only a couple of dozen show any interest in the AMA topics. Great wordsmiths who love to spend hours carping about the AMA. If everyone just ignored them how long before they turned on each other. Now that would be entertaining.

Dennis
Old 01-07-2020, 10:24 AM
  #50  
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