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Old 01-11-2020, 12:09 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by grognard View Post
Nope, I've never belonged to this forum under another name.
Yep , a brand new poster who just decided to drift on in to the most contentious subforum on the board and jump right in posting like you've been here for years , , ,

Oh yeah , , , , SURE I believe you've never posted here before , cause flippin Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny told me so !

Get real dude .....

Oh goody !!!! Our banned former member now returned has actually figured out that "IP washing" software can allow him to return without the mods being able to pin him as a formerly banned member !
Your IP wash may protect you from the mods for a little while , but all banned members here get banned for one thing , they can't let old grudges go . It won't be long before your going after one member or another that you've had a past dustup with , and then after being shown the door again , it'll be time for another nice shiny new IP .

I'm not sure if you think your so clever , or that the members here aren't all that bright , but I assure you neither is the case and you'll be found out sooner rather than later ......

Last edited by init4fun; 01-12-2020 at 06:17 AM.
Old 01-21-2020, 01:32 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Yep , a brand new poster who just decided to drift on in to the most contentious subforum on the board and jump right in posting like you've been here for years , , ,

Oh yeah , , , , SURE I believe you've never posted here before , cause flippin Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny told me so !

Get real dude .....

Oh goody !!!! Our banned former member now returned has actually figured out that "IP washing" software can allow him to return without the mods being able to pin him as a formerly banned member !
Your IP wash may protect you from the mods for a little while , but all banned members here get banned for one thing , they can't let old grudges go . It won't be long before your going after one member or another that you've had a past dustup with , and then after being shown the door again , it'll be time for another nice shiny new IP .

I'm not sure if you think your so clever , or that the members here aren't all that bright , but I assure you neither is the case and you'll be found out sooner rather than later ......
Yes,I believe Grog is a previous member, butI will neither confirm or deny, my login... but as you can see my posst and been very civilized.
Old 01-21-2020, 01:59 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by mach5nchimchim View Post
Yes,I believe Grog is a previous member, butI will neither confirm or deny, my login... but as you can see my posst and been very civilized.
Guess again!
Old 01-21-2020, 04:08 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by mach5nchimchim View Post
my login...
....Is very transparent for a second, shill account......

Astro
Old 01-21-2020, 09:45 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
....Is very transparent for a second, shill account......

Astro
When this comes out in the wash I will expect an apology from you.
Old 01-22-2020, 05:21 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
....Is very transparent for a second, shill account......

Astro
+1
Old 01-22-2020, 05:37 AM
  #82  
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Based on what I can see on the back end, that 2nd account is not Speed so lets move on from that.
Old 01-22-2020, 05:44 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
Based on what I can see on the back end, that 2nd account is not Speed so lets move on from that.
I guess it's time to go buy a lottery ticket then; one cannot ignore such an amazing alignment of coincidences!
Old 01-22-2020, 05:58 AM
  #84  
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I have to assume that if someone is going to create a 2nd account to pick on you that they would be sharp enough not to put their location the same as his.

Just an observation from doing this a while.
Old 01-22-2020, 06:07 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
I have to assume that if someone is going to create a 2nd account to pick on you that they would be sharp enough not to put their location the same as his.

Just an observation from doing this a while.
Or do it and use a VPN. It's not that difficult.

Username: Speed Racer & Speed Racer's Car
Location: Identical
Posts: Out of the hundreds of threads, zeros in not on AMA forums, but then in threads within it where I'm active.

Too many coincidences to ignore. But then again, I suppose you're a stakeholder of sorts. Interested in ensuring those critical of AMA are opposed.

Last edited by franklin_m; 01-22-2020 at 06:13 AM.
Old 01-22-2020, 06:11 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
....Is very transparent for a second, shill account......

Astro
Hi Astro ,
I think the proper term is "Sock puppet" account . A shill is one who is paid by a company to post on forums as a satisfied customer without revealing that they're being paid for posting high praise for the company (I know this because I caught one of our hobby suppliers red handed doing this , and the company's sponsored advertising website promptly banned me for presenting the evidence in open forum) . A sock puppet is a second account used to attack people while keeping one's primary identity clean , not that I'm accusing Speed of this , just identifying the terminology ......

Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
Based on what I can see on the back end, that 2nd account is not Speed so lets move on from that.
Hi Andy ,
with all due respect , what you see "on the back end" means nothing when so called "IP washing" software can make someone appear to be a new poster while hiding their true (old) identity . Now , like I said above I have no idea whose behind the new accounts that have popped up recently , who knows , they may well be brand new posters OR returned past banned members , but what I AM sure of is that IP washing can make anyone who wants to be a new member appear as one , and as long as the "new" posters behave and are held to the same (seemingly non existent around here lately) standards of no trolling/personal attacks I have no problem hearing what they want to say .
Old 01-22-2020, 06:24 AM
  #87  
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Why are you guys acting like I've never heard of proxy or VPNs? I do internet security for a living.

I'm not saying for 100 percent its not, but I don't believe it is and it has nothing to do with AMA supporters.

Give me a little credit eh?
Old 01-22-2020, 06:42 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
Why are you guys acting like I've never heard of proxy or VPNs? I do internet security for a living.

I'm not saying for 100 percent its not, but I don't believe it is and it has nothing to do with AMA supporters.

Give me a little credit eh?
Meanwhile, I just wrote rather large donation to another non-profit, which might have gone to AMA as a peace offering - had Chad or my VP bothered to answer emails. But alas, neither does. So the money went elsewhere. Which is really unfortunate, as my company matches any 501c3 donation.
Old 01-22-2020, 06:48 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
Why are you guys acting like I've never heard of proxy or VPNs? I do internet security for a living.

I'm not saying for 100 percent its not, but I don't believe it is and it has nothing to do with AMA supporters.

Give me a little credit eh?
Ok my Friend , credit given .

Like I said , if whoever the new people are want to behave and present their views without attacking those who see things differently , I truly have no problem with that .

And now I am going to say MY piece here ; what I see time and again is that Franklin posts some well researched fact or another , and when the people who are uncomfortable with his facts can't shoot holes in them they start trying to shoot holes in him instead . The new member "Grog" was doing really well presenting his side , but lately has resorted to underhanded jabs like his "Pentagon" comment . This type of trolling/baiting has NO place in whats supposed to be a bunch of educated gentlemen discussing one of the most technological hobbies their is . Do I agree with Franklin 100% of the time ? OF COURSE NOT ! Hell , I don't agree with myself 100% of the time , but what I really don't agree with is the shameful personal attacks that pose as rebuttals to the Man's presented facts . Seeing the Man's past military service being used to denigrate him as some kind of blind follower or "yes man" is nothing short of repulsive and in my opinion such lack of respect for anyone's military service says very bad things of those who would stoop so low as to insult the very thing (military service to our country) that gives us the freedom to have the views we do ....
Old 01-22-2020, 07:23 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
... and as long as the "new" posters behave and are held to the same (seemingly non existent around here lately) standards of no trolling/personal attacks I have no problem hearing what they want to say .
I think the key word is "same". This was my first - or maybe second - post when I joined the Forum:

Originally Posted by grognard View Post
Yes, and no FRIAs means all of our existing equipment (ultra micros excepted) will be junk three years after the effective date of the final rule. Retrofit, if technically possible, will require individuals to get their home shops approved as "UAS producers".
With no FRIAs to fly them in, the option for "amateur built" unmanned aircraft also goes away. Our choices will be limited to "ready to fly" models which, because of the requirement to include 100% of SYSTEM components, will have to include useless toy quality transmitters. Oh, and "UAS kits" as well - which will be the identical models disassembled and shipped in smaller boxes. Gee, we get to bolt the wings on so the Chinese can fit more of them in the shipping container.
That's how important FRIAs are in the context of this NPRM. Without them, traditional model aviation is over.
If someone is concerned about the AMA, some more constructive uses of comments might be:
- Request the FAA to expand the application period, to give time for more CBOs to form.
- Request the FAA to extend eligibility to other organizations (such as STEM schools) and individuals with suitable properties.
- Request the FAA to remove the unnecessarily harsh and burdensome language that states that FRIAs terminated at the request of a CBO can never be reactivated. Sometimes clubs lose fields for no fault of their own. That doesn't preclude someone else from using the same site in future if circumstances change.
- Request the FAA to accept FRIAs as a permanent part of the airspace system. UAS being safely operated within the confines of a FRIA are not being operated elsewhere, where they might conflict with other unmanned traffic. Keeping FRIAs open for as long as possible benefits both recreational UAS users and the FAA.
Is it passionate? Certainly. But I don't think any fair-minded person can see even a hint of a personal attack there. As a new member, I was careful to speak to the issue, not the messenger.

And for my trouble, I was attacked -- by YOU, sir -- as a "ghost". Franklin agreed, and accused me of being sent directly by AMA HQ. When I protested, YOUR response was belittling and insulting. I actually attempted to report it, but apparently one doesn't get reporting rights without a certain number of posts.

So -- IMNSHO of course -- you and Franklin have absolutely NO justification to complain about the tone you YOURSELVES have set.

You want new posters to be respectful? Start treating them with respect. Don't question their identities, even if you really have suspicions. It's irrelevant anyway. Have you personally verified Franklin's Naval service (not that I seriously doubt it?) Have you personally verified Speed's contest record (not that I doubt that either?). Everybody in here is just as tall as they talk.

It seems what we really have here is an anti-AMA clique in control who are determined to shout down all opposition.
Old 01-22-2020, 07:54 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by grognard View Post
I think the key word is "same". This was my first - or maybe second - post when I joined the Forum:



Is it passionate? Certainly. But I don't think any fair-minded person can see even a hint of a personal attack there. As a new member, I was careful to speak to the issue, not the messenger.

And for my trouble, I was attacked -- by YOU, sir -- as a "ghost". Franklin agreed, and accused me of being sent directly by AMA HQ. When I protested, YOUR response was belittling and insulting. I actually attempted to report it, but apparently one doesn't get reporting rights without a certain number of posts.

So -- IMNSHO of course -- you and Franklin have absolutely NO justification to complain about the tone you YOURSELVES have set.

You want new posters to be respectful? Start treating them with respect. Don't question their identities, even if you really have suspicions. It's irrelevant anyway. Have you personally verified Franklin's Naval service (not that I seriously doubt it?) Have you personally verified Speed's contest record (not that I doubt that either?). Everybody in here is just as tall as they talk.

It seems what we really have here is an anti-AMA clique in control who are determined to shout down all opposition.
Now Grog , didn't we agree to disagree about the new/old RCU poster thing and leave it at that ? Tell me , HAVE I been disrespectful toward you since that discussion we had ? It seems to me that each time the new/old RCU poster thing has been brought up since then my response has been "If they want to play by the RCU rules and present their side here I'm fine with that" , so , for the last time , we ARE past the RCU identity thing , you and I , and the tone has now been reset . Present your points with no more "Pentagon isms" and I'm willing to listen to anything you have to say . Now , tell ya what , now that the RCU identity thing has been buried , you wanna walk the walk and talk the talk here ? Let's start with REAL identities then , shall we ? I am AMA 80274 , and have held that AMA number for damned near 50 years . What's your AMA number Grog ? Who really ARE you ? What do you know about me to come in here calling me part of some kind of "Anti AMA clique" ???? You know about as much of nothing about me as we here know about you , so , since we know mine , Speedys , and a whole bunch of everyone else's AMA numbers out here , whats YOUR'S Grog ?????

You want any kind of cred here Grog ? Identify yourself ....
Old 01-22-2020, 08:06 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
You want any kind of cred here Grog ? Identify yourself ....
AMA 64065. Started flying RC in 1976. Had a break from 1991 to 2017. Really got back into building last year, only to have the FAA drop this load of manure in my lap. Am I steamed about it? Yeah, just a little bit...

Now if you want any more personal details I'll be happy to provide them -- after every other principal participant in this discussion with a higher post count does the same.

That's fair. Isn't it?
Old 01-22-2020, 08:25 AM
  #93  
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In the interest of fairness, AMA 840418. CL since about 1970. Self taught RC in about 1990. Flown continuously since then. Now mostly helos (nitro and electric), but dabble in MRs (race and 'mission' types), PF warbirds and scale, micro, and classic 049 kits (i.e. Ace Pacer) / plans, and built micro club racers. Flew FW nitro all day every weekend until 2009 ... then stepped away from that almost entirely after move from CA to PA. With busy family schedule, the flying time vs. drive to/from + unpack/packup + rough field was too little flying for too much hassle. Returned to large C/L (.40 size) in 2010.
Old 01-22-2020, 08:29 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by grognard View Post
AMA 64065. Started flying RC in 1976. Had a break from 1991 to 2017. Really got back into building last year, only to have the FAA drop this load of manure in my lap. Am I steamed about it? Yeah, just a little bit...

Now if you want any more personal details I'll be happy to provide them -- after every other principal participant in this discussion with a higher post count does the same.

That's fair. Isn't it?
Welcome aboard !

Thank You Grog , I hope you know how sincere I'm being here , I really DO appreciate you identifying yourself as a real fellow AMA member . There are many more commonalities between us than differences here , we do both want what's best for both the hobby and the AMA . I know at times my "peeking around the curtain" may come across as being anti AMA but it is in reality just the opposite , I want our organization to do well the right way , and not by doing things like forcing folks to become members . I want fellow AMA members by choice and not by force , choice breeds comradeship VS force breeds resent . If I seem to be "holding their feet to the fire" it's because I want the AMA to always be able to claim the moral high ground and not be seen as an organization that would take advantage of a dangerous time for our hobby in an attempt to boost membership .

PS , I thought your 2 pound park flyer (VS 1/2) proposition was perfect , and I am right there with that since I both (at present legally) park fly as well as club fly .

Last edited by init4fun; 01-22-2020 at 09:17 AM. Reason: fix typos :)
Old 01-22-2020, 09:40 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Welcome aboard!
Thank you.

And a bit more about my personal experience of clubs vs. park fliers:

I joined an AMA club when I started flying R/C in 1976. There was also an active "outlaw" group at a park - State, not city owned - that was a little nearer home than the club field. There was some bad blood between the groups, but I got along OK with most of both, and split my flying time between both fields. It was nice to have a choice.

This went on until 1988 when I left the club after I saw it as becoming a little too political. Continued flying at the park until home ownership, travel for work and other hobbies intervened. Consigned the airplanes to the garage loft until after retiring in 2015.

When I got back into flying in 2017, I went back to the park field. I found some of the same guys flying the same things they had flown in 1991, just 40 years older. Little Johnny? Yeah, he shows up now and again. With a model rocket -- which he sets up in the middle of the runway mown and maintained by the R/C fliers. Or a truck. Or a drone. And it's a public park, so you can't ask him to move if he doesn't want to. You just have to wait until he finishes obstructing YOUR runway. Oops, I mean the Park's runway -- you're just one of the guys that mow it.

And the Park also has dog walkers -- that sometimes cross the runway while you are flying. And picnickers -- sitting at the tables the Park put their for your use. Oops, I mean the general public's use. And a nice landfill to look at, it's only gotten taller in 40 years.

So last summer I took a drive out to the Club's facility and found a beautiful miniature airport. A shelter house, so you can get out of the hot sun between flights. A charging station for electrics, which is what I've converted all of my old glow planes into as I bring them back on line. And nobody there that doesn't belong there to get in the way, or be a safety hazard.

Rather than remember old animosities, the Club welcomed me like a long-lost brother. Rather than charge me an "initiation fee", they let me fly the first season for a trial membership of $20. The AMA found my old number (inactive since 1995) and restored it. Honestly I don't find the magazine that interesting (it's mostly old news compared to online) -- but I don't think $75 is that much money. It would just about pay for a nice dinner and drinks with the Mrs.

Oh, and the Club has "little Johnny" too. About 4 or 5 of them -- the President has a big family. And the kid who built the solar powered charging station is into drones. No problem, we all get along and stay out of each other's way.

Well, that's my experience with the local AMA, which is the only AMA I personally know. I realize other people may have had bad experiences -- but is my "reality" any less real? Are there more of me, or more of them? Does it really matter?

And someone wants to bull his way in and shut all this down in the name of "equal protection of the laws". Or whatever. It doesn't really matter whether he honestly thinks it's the right thing to do, is doing it out of meanness, or is even being paid. He's hitting me. ME. He's telling me the planes on my building board will be junk in three years. He wants my field. MINE. Not someone else's.

You think I'm not going to hit back?
Old 01-22-2020, 10:11 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by grognard View Post
Thank you.

And a bit more about my personal experience of clubs vs. park fliers:

I joined an AMA club when I started flying R/C in 1976. There was also an active "outlaw" group at a park - State, not city owned - that was a little nearer home than the club field. There was some bad blood between the groups, but I got along OK with most of both, and split my flying time between both fields. It was nice to have a choice.

This went on until 1988 when I left the club after I saw it as becoming a little too political. Continued flying at the park until home ownership, travel for work and other hobbies intervened. Consigned the airplanes to the garage loft until after retiring in 2015.

When I got back into flying in 2017, I went back to the park field. I found some of the same guys flying the same things they had flown in 1991, just 40 years older. Little Johnny? Yeah, he shows up now and again. With a model rocket -- which he sets up in the middle of the runway mown and maintained by the R/C fliers. Or a truck. Or a drone. And it's a public park, so you can't ask him to move if he doesn't want to. You just have to wait until he finishes obstructing YOUR runway. Oops, I mean the Park's runway -- you're just one of the guys that mow it.

And the Park also has dog walkers -- that sometimes cross the runway while you are flying. And picnickers -- sitting at the tables the Park put their for your use. Oops, I mean the general public's use. And a nice landfill to look at, it's only gotten taller in 40 years.

So last summer I took a drive out to the Club's facility and found a beautiful miniature airport. A shelter house, so you can get out of the hot sun between flights. A charging station for electrics, which is what I've converted all of my old glow planes into as I bring them back on line. And nobody there that doesn't belong there to get in the way, or be a safety hazard.

Rather than remember old animosities, the Club welcomed me like a long-lost brother. Rather than charge me an "initiation fee", they let me fly the first season for a trial membership of $20. The AMA found my old number (inactive since 1995) and restored it. Honestly I don't find the magazine that interesting (it's mostly old news compared to online) -- but I don't think $75 is that much money. It would just about pay for a nice dinner and drinks with the Mrs.

Oh, and the Club has "little Johnny" too. About 4 or 5 of them -- the President has a big family. And the kid who built the solar powered charging station is into drones. No problem, we all get along and stay out of each other's way.

Well, that's my experience with the local AMA, which is the only AMA I personally know. I realize other people may have had bad experiences -- but is my "reality" any less real? Are there more of me, or more of them? Does it really matter?

And someone wants to bull his way in and shut all this down in the name of "equal protection of the laws". Or whatever. It doesn't really matter whether he honestly thinks it's the right thing to do, is doing it out of meanness, or is even being paid. He's hitting me. ME. He's telling me the planes on my building board will be junk in three years. He wants my field. MINE. Not someone else's.

You think I'm not going to hit back?
I think you provided the key issue yourself. Above you noted it was nice to have options. Under the current rule, not only would you not be able to fly at the park or other open space, there is ONE private group in control of all other options (FRIAs).

And therein lies my objective. Restore the open space / park as an option, thus provide an alternative to the all but compulsory membership in a private dues collecting organization.

Absent a viable alternative to the FRIAs, I think they need to be open to all w/o a membership requirement. However if we create a viable alternative, things continue essentially status quo. Those who “need” or value the club field can pay their money and use them. Those who don’t want, need, or value the club field can fly in open spaces under my recommended provisions. Sounds like a win-win.

On the other hand, if AMA opposes or a weaker fight for the open space, private property, or park option, then it reveals their motivation is actually just a transparent attempt to use the rule to compel membership.
Old 01-22-2020, 10:18 AM
  #97  
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I have not yet totally agreed with Franklin's approach WRT the FRIAs because I'm not so sure a slash and burn approach is what the situation needs . It's my belief that the FAA does indeed intend the FRIAs to be a temporary measure on the way to eliminating us altogether , and my response to the FAA does include asking for things like being able to form new FRIAs into the future as leases on fields may come & go . As to the public park flying , here in Mass. we are allowed to park fly on public land , but we aren't allowed to develop it in any way (such development implying a de facto ownership) so the only developed runways and such are found at the AMA sanctioned club fields . Now to be sure some clubs here are on public land , those clubs having signed exclusive use leases with the town and are thus not "public spaces" per se since the club is paying the town for exclusive use of the land . Thankfully most of our public parks aren't all that populated with people , in fact the local police love that a bunch of old guys hang around flying model planes , there is nothing like a group of 10 or 15 of old guys hanging around for keeping the creeps , drug dealers , and other people with less than honorable intent from hanging around

I do see Franklin's constitutional argument of not forcing folks to join a private organization to use public lands , and I don't know what the real solution to that would be , other than having the clubs get exclusive use leases for the land they're flying from ...
Old 01-22-2020, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
However if we create a viable alternative, things continue essentially status quo. Those who “need” or value the club field can pay their money and use them. Those who don’t want, need, or value the club field can fly in open spaces under my recommended provisions.
Except that the Real World is always messier and more complicated than the Big Picture implies.

In this specific case, most of the park fliers are flying the same old glow planes they had 40 years ago. They're out, under your provisions. Or they've graduated to larger electric models with the same "feel" as their older planes. They're out, too. Very few, or none of the regular fliers are going be content with 2lbs and 60 MPH.

What's more, the guy who does the mowing (not me) likes big gassers. He wouldn't even consider being limited to smaller planes, much less electrics. Once he quits, the field will revert to meadowland, and "little Johnny" will have no place to play with rockets, trucks, and drones. Boy, you sure did everybody a favor.

And I still don't buy the business about FRIAs being an AMA scheme to build membership. The NPRM clearly states that members of ANY CBO recognized by the Administrator can apply for FRIA establishment. Of course the FAA used the AMA club field numbers as part of their cost estimate, because the FAA considers it likely the AMA will apply.

Well, what if it doesn't? What if AMA leadership gets tired of the whole debate and decides to re-constitute the organization as, say, the Academy of Model Competition? They can protect Headquarters and a few key locations and let the whole rest of the quarrelsome people go. They can charge higher dues and get corporate sponsorships for financing.

If that happens, a whole bunch of clubs (like mine) are going to have 12 months to join a different CBO, or manufacture a whole new one while the FRIA app window is open.

Last edited by RCUer75345; 01-22-2020 at 11:45 AM.
Old 01-22-2020, 01:37 PM
  #99  
franklin_m
 
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Originally Posted by grognard View Post
In this specific case, most of the park fliers are flying the same old glow planes they had 40 years ago.
If they are, then they're in violation of AMA park flyer rules, as those rules prohibit IC engines.

Originally Posted by grognard View Post
Or they've graduated to larger electric models with the same "feel" as their older planes.
Or they've moved to smaller planes, as many in these threads have noted they've done. Me included.

Originally Posted by grognard View Post
Very few, or none of the regular fliers are going be content with 2lbs and 60 MPH.
A sizeable portion of AMA's paid membership are Park Flyers. The seem content with 2lbs and 60 MPH. Just because some will not does not prove a universal.

Originally Posted by grognard View Post
What's more, the guy who does the mowing (not me) likes big gassers. He wouldn't even consider being limited to smaller planes, much less electrics. Once he quits, the field will revert to meadowland ....
Find someone else to mow. Pay someone to mow. Mow yourself. Or do like many other clubs do, set up a duty roster to do the mowing.

Originally Posted by grognard View Post
...and "little Johnny" will have no place to play with rockets, trucks, and drones.
Says who. I see people launching rockets in parks all the time, or in school yards, or in open fields. Ironically, the same places they're flying park flyers.

Originally Posted by grognard View Post
Boy, you sure did everybody a favor.
The world does not, and nor should it, revolve around FRIAs and AMA. It's about creating options under the rule that allow non-compliant equipment to remain in use w/o need to join AMA or a club or both.

Originally Posted by grognard View Post
And I still don't buy the business about FRIAs being an AMA scheme to build membership. The NPRM clearly states that members of ANY CBO recognized by the Administrator can apply for FRIA establishment.
The FAA cannot ignore the simple and inescapable fact that the overwhelming majority of the likely FRIAs will be controlled by ONE organization. As that forms their basis that such sites are close to those who might need to use them, a central premise of FAA's arguement runs into problems. Say for example that there's 3000 AMA FRIAs in the US, and 25 Flight Test FRIAs. If that were commerce, we'd call it a anti-competitive - and thus not a reasonable option for those who are not AMA members. Thus AMA membership would be all but compusulory under the rule.

Originally Posted by grognard View Post
What if AMA leadership gets tired of the whole debate and decides to re-constitute the organization as, say, the Academy of Model Competition? They can protect Headquarters and a few key locations and let the whole rest of the quarrelsome people go. They can charge higher dues and get corporate sponsorships for financing.
I could care less. Most of the 800,000 non-members could care less if indeed the FAA sees my point about compulsory membership and creates alternatives to the FRIAs.

Originally Posted by grognard View Post
If that happens, a whole bunch of clubs (like mine) are going to have 12 months to join a different CBO, or manufacture a whole new one while the FRIA app window is open.
Better yet, include in your comments a proposal to allow individual clubs to independently establish FRIAs ... w/o any requirement that they meet CBO criteria.

Last edited by franklin_m; 01-22-2020 at 02:51 PM.
Old 01-22-2020, 02:49 PM
  #100  
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Sounds to me like the big issue(and I do see it as an issue) is being forced to join an organization just to be able to fly.
I know I just forked over $90 to NAMBA for the wife and I to travel hours from home to be able to race my boats at a club that costs me $15 per year and $20 per event(for the first boat, $10 for each additional boat) to participate in. I don't have to be a member of any organization to run my boats, just go to a lake or pond that allows full sized boats and go run. Like many here in the forum, I like the competition of a day of racing but, at the same time, I don't want to have to pay a stack of cash just to throw a boat on the water for a few hours of fun running or testing.

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