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Old 02-09-2020, 04:21 PM
  #151  
speedracerntrixie
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Service the members yes, be a doormat for RCU members, NOPE. Tell ya what Astro, you tell me what your place of business is, I will make public announcements about how incompetent the place is and then call for your assistance, how you you see that working out?

Also notice that there is no disrespect towards you or anyone else in this post, I ask the same from you.
Old 02-09-2020, 04:24 PM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
Yep, and the answer is that the AMA staff has failed to respond to a members’ question/concern.
And what will the OP do with the AMA's answer once he receives it?

I may be going waaaay out on a limb here, but I'll bet the answer is: Complain some more.

An old boss of mine used to say that a "problem" wasn't really a problem unless you came up with a solution. Otherwise, it was just a situation you had to live with. The first time I heard that I thought it was just a bunch of bureaucratic BS. As I became older and wiser, however, I began to understand where he was coming from.

So let's review the OP's question again:

Originally Posted by warningshot View Post
What, if anything, is the AMA doing to help the AMA non-club members to be able to keep flying under the new FAA rules that are on the way?
So, Warningshot: You've read a number of responses by the members here - if not from the AMA.

It's clear you don't like them. And you probably won't like the "official" one if it ever gets posted.

So what's YOUR solution? Help the AMA -- they're only human, after all. What do YOU think they should do to help non-club members keep flying?

Once you formulate your answer, don't wait for the AMA -- turn it in as an NPRM comment.
Old 02-09-2020, 05:28 PM
  #153  
astrohog
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Originally Posted by grognard View Post
And what will the OP do with the AMA's answer once he receives it?
Keep it simple.....it doesnít matter....
As a dues-paying member he deserves an answer. Period

Astro
Old 02-09-2020, 05:41 PM
  #154  
astrohog
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Originally Posted by grognard View Post
An old boss of mine used to say that a "problem" wasn't really a problem unless you came up with a solution. Otherwise, it was just a situation you had to live with.
NO, that is what we PAY the AMA to do. Why canít you comprehend that? They are supposed to listen to the membershipsí wishes, and then put those wishes into action. Not too difficult to understand.
Originally Posted by grognard
what's YOUR solution? Help the AMA -- they're only human, after all. What do YOU think they should do to help non-club members keep flying?
Advocate for different regs for traditional aircraft and drones, but that ship sailed YEARS ago, so...........
.....and, they may only be human, but we hire/elect them for their expertise and experience to lead our organization. It is OURS, not THEIRS! My expectation is that they are far more effective at running our organization than the average member is.


Originally Posted by grognard
don't wait for the AMA
NO KIDDING THERE!!! We agree for once!

Astro
Old 02-09-2020, 06:21 PM
  #155  
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So:

Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
They are supposed to listen to the membershipsí wishes, and then put those wishes into action.
But:

Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
My expectation is that they are far more effective at running our organization than the average member is.
So, you give them credit for being too smart and too stupid at the same time?

And, you won't even tell them what you WANT, so they can go figure out how to make it come about?

Old 02-09-2020, 07:45 PM
  #156  
astrohog
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Originally Posted by grognard View Post
And, you won't even tell them what you WANT, so they can go figure out how to make it come about?
Give it up, sir. You know not of what you speak.

Astro
Old 02-09-2020, 08:03 PM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Your not even an AMA member so why would they care what you like or your take on policy. Talk about a beak in other peoples business. Someone with major entitlement issues for sure.

Dennis
Not in the least when it comes to entitlement issues.
My comment about not liking excuses was pointed at grognard, not at the AMA home office.
Then again, why do you care what's going on between the AMA and FAA or how I replied to grognard? It doesn't affect you as a MAAC member. You can just follow the laws in Canada and fly iaw them to your heart's content
Old 02-10-2020, 08:07 AM
  #158  
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HydroJunkie - I'm curious. You have mentioned you are a NAMBA member Have you asked them what they do for non-members? It is also interesting to note that while AMA insurance also covers RC boating, NAMBA clubs/NAMBA will not recognize it. I also know of several clubs that require NAMBA insurance/membership in order to run on their club pond sites. I asked NAMBA about this back when I was running boats. I was flatly told that if you want NAMBA benefits, etc. then join NAMBA.
Old 02-10-2020, 08:13 AM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
HydroJunkie - I'm curious. You have mentioned you are a NAMBA member Have you asked them what they do for non-members? It is also interesting to note that while AMA insurance also covers RC boating, NAMBA clubs/NAMBA will not recognize it. I also know of several clubs that require NAMBA insurance/membership in order to run on their club pond sites. I asked NAMBA about this back when I was running boats. I was flatly told that if you want NAMBA benefits, etc. then join NAMBA.
The OP IS an AMA member, he just doesn't belong to a local club.

Astro
Old 02-10-2020, 10:36 AM
  #160  
Propworn
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
The OP IS an AMA member, he just doesn't belong to a local club.

Astro
Perhaps the AMA is in the same position MAAC found itself years ago. There was no immediate answer for those flying outside the club format as we were struggling to get relief for the majority of our members who by chance just happen to be members of clubs. When the majority of the members were taken care of there was time and funds to address those who did not fly within a club. At one time our insurance refused to cover the lone flyer though that had been the norm for years. It took some time but all of this was eventually restored to its previous levels. In the mean time there was nothing to announce and yes many who fell outside the clubs felt as though not enough effort had been expended to address their concerns. Somethings just take time and are going to be addressed by the priority of the majority of the members. Its just the way it is.

Dennis.
Old 02-10-2020, 11:09 AM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by mongo View Post
yeah, for about 20 years the number of actual AMA members that are also members of at least 1 club has stayed at just a touch under the 50% mark dave brown mentioned way back then in his first term. guess they might have finally found a way to increase that percentage
Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Perhaps the AMA is in the same position MAAC found itself years ago. There was no immediate answer for those flying outside the club format as we were struggling to get relief for the majority of our members who by chance just happen to be members of clubs. When the majority of the members were taken care of there was time and funds to address those who did not fly within a club. At one time our insurance refused to cover the lone flyer though that had been the norm for years. It took some time but all of this was eventually restored to its previous levels. In the mean time there was nothing to announce and yes many who fell outside the clubs felt as though not enough effort had been expended to address their concerns. Somethings just take time and are going to be addressed by the priority of the majority of the members. Its just the way it is.

Dennis.

Thank You Dennis for your assessment of the MAAC situation , and I can see where the "needs of the many VS the needs of the few" gave priority to the club flyers since you say the majority of MAAC members are also club members . But what of Mongo's stat that he quoted from a past AMA President , that says roughly 50% of AMA members belong to clubs ? Even if the ratio of AMA member flyers were 60/40 club/non club , isn't that 40% a whole bunch of AMA members that should be represented right alongside the club flyer ? Their needs aren't all that mutually exclusive , both the club/non club AMA member both want to enjoy their hobby with the least government intrusion possible .
Old 02-10-2020, 11:12 AM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
HydroJunkie - I'm curious. You have mentioned you are a NAMBA member Have you asked them what they do for non-members? It is also interesting to note that while AMA insurance also covers RC boating, NAMBA clubs/NAMBA will not recognize it. I also know of several clubs that require NAMBA insurance/membership in order to run on their club pond sites. I asked NAMBA about this back when I was running boats. I was flatly told that if you want NAMBA benefits, etc. then join NAMBA.
Actually, I had a run in over that very subject at a race several years back. I was a member of a club and NAMBA, the wife wasn't. She went to an event with me and was told she had to pay a single event fee. A few months later, she went with me again, this time she was flat out told she couldn't be in the pit area as she wasn't insured. Okay, I get that, no problem. I tried to get her single event coverage again and was told it was pay for a full membership or nothing. Since then, when I renew my membership, I get her a card as well even though she hasn't gone with me since.
As for AMA insurance on boats, I don't know how that would work. I can contact the NAMBA secretary and ask but, I think it comes down to wanting to keep thing simple and, as we all know, nothing is cut and dried anymore.
Old 02-10-2020, 02:45 PM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Even if the ratio of AMA member flyers were 60/40 club/non club , isn't that 40% a whole bunch of AMA members that should be represented right alongside the club flyer ? Their needs aren't all that mutually exclusive , both the club/non club AMA member both want to enjoy their hobby with the least government intrusion possible .
Many times I am a lone flyer so I know the feeling well but by concentrating on the clubs first getting approval for a structured environment made it easier later to get the same approval for the lone flyer and at the same time reinstate the insurance for the lone flyers. A mater of patience and perseverance on the part of MAAC.
Old 02-10-2020, 03:40 PM
  #164  
speedracerntrixie
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Actually, I had a run in over that very subject at a race several years back. I was a member of a club and NAMBA, the wife wasn't. She went to an event with me and was told she had to pay a single event fee. A few months later, she went with me again, this time she was flat out told she couldn't be in the pit area as she wasn't insured. Okay, I get that, no problem. I tried to get her single event coverage again and was told it was pay for a full membership or nothing. Since then, when I renew my membership, I get her a card as well even though she hasn't gone with me since.
As for AMA insurance on boats, I don't know how that would work. I can contact the NAMBA secretary and ask but, I think it comes down to wanting to keep thing simple and, as we all know, nothing is cut and dried anymore.

Thats a shame they did that to her, I think that if the same thing happened to my wife she would stop attending events with me as well. That would really suck as she has become an excellent pattern caller and Soaring timer. Although I quit pylon racing a few years ago she has also called me to a couple season championships. So much easier when the wife is involved.
Old 02-10-2020, 04:53 PM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Even if the ratio of AMA member flyers were 60/40 club/non club , isn't that 40% a whole bunch of AMA members that should be represented right alongside the club flyer ?
When did the AMA stop representing non-club fliers?

Remote ID is coming, and the FAA considers it necessary so drones can "detect and avoid" each other. Unless you fly at a FRIA, your aircraft will have to be Remote ID compliant three years after the NPRM goes into effect. This is just as true for club members as it is for non-members.

If you feel this will spoil your fun, you can join an existing club or charter a new club. Or you can advocate directly with the FAA for NPRM changes. Such as:

- Extending FRIA eligibility to non-CBO entities and individuals
- Allowing for temporary FRIAs
- Increasing the weight threshold for UAS registration (and therefore, Remote ID compliance)
- Providing for retrofittable Remote ID compliance

The AMA may well be advocating for some these ideas as well. But with 21 days left in the comment period, why wait for someone else?
Old 02-11-2020, 04:09 AM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by grognard View Post
When did the AMA stop representing non-club fliers?

Remote ID is coming, and the FAA considers it necessary so drones can "detect and avoid" each other. Unless you fly at a FRIA, your aircraft will have to be Remote ID compliant three years after the NPRM goes into effect. This is just as true for club members as it is for non-members.

If you feel this will spoil your fun, you can join an existing club or charter a new club. Or you can advocate directly with the FAA for NPRM changes. Such as:

- Extending FRIA eligibility to non-CBO entities and individuals
- Allowing for temporary FRIAs
- Increasing the weight threshold for UAS registration (and therefore, Remote ID compliance)
- Providing for retrofittable Remote ID compliance

The AMA may well be advocating for some these ideas as well. But with 21 days left in the comment period, why wait for someone else?
Hi Grog , Thank You for the answer to my post . Due to the helpful suggestions I've seen here I have already sent my NPRM response to the FAA . It includes all 4 of your suggestions and a few others of my own . As to the AMA chartered club , I've belonged to the same one here in eastern Massachusetts for over 15 years , so I'm all set with the FRIA aspect , but I also legally (for now) fly at a few different non club sites , hence my interest in seeing the AMA member / non club flying situations protected as well
Old 02-12-2020, 05:35 PM
  #167  
R_Strowe
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Does the AMA ever deny someone membership? For that matter, how many clubs do so as well?

I might see oneís point if the AMA was denying memberships, but unless one has a history of not following the AMA safety code, all are welcome, no?

R_Strowe
Old 02-12-2020, 05:57 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by R_Strowe View Post
Does the AMA ever deny someone membership? For that matter, how many clubs do so as well?
Hopefully someone from AMA will answer your question. I believe it's up to individual clubs whether or not to accept new members. However, if they are 501 (c) 3 organizations I don't believe they can legally discriminate.
Old 02-12-2020, 06:09 PM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by warningshot View Post
What, if anything, is the AMA doing to help the AMA non-club members to be able to keep flying under the new FAA rules that are on the way? I contacted AMA but they have not returned my phone call.
Right now, unfortunately not a whole lot (probably). AMA is really not that big an organization staffing-wise, and currently I would assume they have their hands full.

R_Strowe
Old 02-12-2020, 06:15 PM
  #170  
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Originally Posted by grognard View Post
Hopefully someone from AMA will answer your question. I believe it's up to individual clubs whether or not to accept new members. However, if they are 501 (c) 3 organizations I don't believe they can legally discriminate.
Thatís what I thought. So, as far as AMA National is concerned, THEY wonít be denying anyone access to FRIAís, because anyone is free to join AMA. They donít discriminate.

R_Strowe
Old 03-11-2020, 12:04 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by R_Strowe View Post
Thatís what I thought. So, as far as AMA National is concerned, THEY wonít be denying anyone access to FRIAís, because anyone is free to join AMA. They donít discriminate.

R_Strowe
Exactly, people are free to join the AMA, if the AMA is granted fria sites, just people like FM and his minions have a thing about the AMA and don't want to join, but at least they have the choice to join.
Old 03-11-2020, 12:23 PM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by mach5nchimchim View Post
Exactly, people are free to join the AMA, if the AMA is granted fria sites, just people like FM and his minions have a thing about the AMA and don't want to join, but at least they have the choice to join.
When a singular PRIVATE dues collecting organization has near monopolistic control of likely FRIA sites, regardless of whether joining is a choice, it is still problematic from a Federal forced association standpoint. Furthermore, the law explicitly prohibits the FAA from requiring permission to operate a model aircraft, and since membership is a form of permission, that is problematic as well.

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