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Old 01-03-2020, 01:38 PM
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warningshot
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Default Non club member

What, if anything, is the AMA doing to help the AMA non-club members to be able to keep flying under the new FAA rules that are on the way? I contacted AMA but they have not returned my phone call.

Last edited by warningshot; 01-03-2020 at 01:44 PM.
Old 01-03-2020, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by warningshot View Post
What, if anything, is the AMA doing to help the non-club members to be able to keep flying under the new FAA rules that are on the way? I contacted AMA but they have not returned my phone call.
The proposed FAA regulations are a bit too complicated for me to explain, but AMA HQ doesn't like communicating with us. On occasion it's a one and done conversation.
Old 01-03-2020, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by warningshot View Post
What, if anything, is the AMA doing to help the AMA non-club members to be able to keep flying under the new FAA rules that are on the way? I contacted AMA but they have not returned my phone call.
As the NPRM currently stands a non club member would need to fly under the use of the standard or the limited RemoteID options. As it stands currently there is no provision for flying any non RemoteID equipped models outside of the proposed FRIA sites.
Old 01-03-2020, 03:03 PM
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But, the FAA hope to see other CBOs pop up. Some are in the works, but not sure where they stand, especially with respect to establishing a FRIA.

Also keep in mind this is at least 5 years out from being a reality and hopefully enough coherent comments are received to get it changed. Rants and raves against the machine are ignored by the FAA. Make constructive comments backed by evidence to show where the rule goes off the rails.
Old 01-03-2020, 03:57 PM
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speedracerntrixie
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First off, whatever AMA happens to get for their members will spill off onto everyone. This holds true for victories and failures. Secondly if the only CBO able to obtain FRIA sites ends up being the AMA, you are more then welcome to join and benifit what they had accomplished prior to your joining.
Old 01-03-2020, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by warningshot View Post
What, if anything, is the AMA doing to help the AMA non-club members to be able to keep flying under the new FAA rules that are on the way? I contacted AMA but they have not returned my phone call.
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
First off, whatever AMA happens to get for their members will spill off onto everyone. This holds true for victories and failures. Secondly if the only CBO able to obtain FRIA sites ends up being the AMA, you are more then welcome to join and benifit what they had accomplished prior to your joining.
If I read the OP's post correctly , he already is an AMA member , but is not a member of a flying club chartered with the AMA , and wants to know what the AMA is doing for the non club affiliated AMA member since the AMA's focus appears to be on winning concessions for AMA members who are members of AMA chartered clubs , with nothing yet for the non clubmember AMA member .

Have I read your post correctly warningshot ?
Old 01-03-2020, 04:55 PM
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warningshot
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
If I read the OP's post correctly , he already is an AMA member , but is not a member of a flying club chartered with the AMA , and wants to know what the AMA is doing for the non club affiliated AMA member since the AMA's focus appears to be on winning concessions for AMA members who are members of AMA chartered clubs , with nothing yet for the non clubmember AMA member .

Have I read your post correctly warningshot ?
Yes you have. Funny how speed got it so wrong.

Old 01-03-2020, 05:06 PM
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The wording could have been more clear, that aside I'm not able to answer that question as would be the case with anyone who would contribute to this thread. As far as I know none of the usual contributors have inside AMA information.

Now do I think the AMA could do a better job of keeping us informed of their game plan? 100% absolutely! I don't however buy into the idea that because we haven't seen any fruit yet that the tree is dead. The remote ID, FRIA BS is still a few years away and could very well get some streamlining before implemented.
Old 01-03-2020, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
It will be forthcoming but its great news from a cooperative effort of AMA staff, some local clubs, and the FAA
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
...... I'm not able to answer that question as would be the case with anyone who would contribute to this thread. As far as I know none of the usual contributors have inside AMA information.....
I can think of at least one of our fellow regular contributors who appears to have some inside AMA info every so often ...

( I pulled Andy's quote from a different thread to illustrate the point that at least one AMA insider does indeed post among us )
Old 01-03-2020, 06:32 PM
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speedracerntrixie
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Yes, you are correct Andy was just elected as an EC member. That however may end up putting a handicap on him sharing some information. I have a high enough opinion of Andy so that when he makes a statement such as the one you quoted I tend to take it at face value and breath a little easier.
Old 01-03-2020, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by warningshot View Post
What, if anything, is the AMA doing to help the AMA non-club members to be able to keep flying under the new FAA rules that are on the way? I contacted AMA but they have not returned my phone call.
yeah, for about 20 years the number of actual AMA members that are also members of at least 1 club has stayed at just a touch under the 50% mark dave brown mentioned way back then in his first term. guess they might have finally found a way to increase that percentage
Old 01-03-2020, 08:29 PM
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If you currently fly on your own or another private land, one possibility is that the AMA may be able to set you and a few family or friends up as a new chartered club. Provided that charter gets established before these new regs go into effect, I would assume AMA could then submit your flying site to FAA for consideration as a FRIA. Last I heard you only need four club officers (one being a safety officer and a club contact) in order to become a charter club. It used to be the AMA really didn't care where your club flys from, but forthcoming it will have to meet the FAA's FRIA criteria.
Old 01-04-2020, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Yes, you are correct Andy was just elected as an EC member. That however may end up putting a handicap on him sharing some information. I have a high enough opinion of Andy so that when he makes a statement such as the one you quoted I tend to take it at face value and breath a little easier.
And while I do agree with you, it is more probable than possible that the other members of the EC would put what amounts to a "gag order" on him to prevent the dissemination of information they don't want out. We all know that "Taj Muncie" has a history of withholding or twisting information to "strengthen it's hand" when dealing with the membership, often putting out statements that directly conflicts with official releases that the FAA put out. Is there a way for the EC to "expel" an elected member if that member is deemed to be "detrimental" to the EC? This would be my concern for Andy, if he tells us anything the rest of the EC wanted to keep secret.

Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 01-04-2020 at 02:35 PM.
Old 01-04-2020, 03:10 PM
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Nobody has put me under a gag order for anything other than active insurance cases and that is for legal reasons, I'd like to think I have enough sense to know what I can and can't talk about. I won't tell you anything you can't find out by calling your VP.

Sometimes there's a reason that things aren't thrown out there in an open forum. It might have an impact on ongoing negotiations for example.

There's a lot of work to be done here, thoughtful comments (not rants) backed up with facts is a great start.

That said, I've heard a number of things recently that give me cause for cautious optimism.


Old 01-04-2020, 03:19 PM
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Hydro, we have a lot in common, more even than airplanes, we'd probably hang out if we were local.

So I'm going to politely say this, if you want to engage me here and have a reasoned discussion about the issues at hand, I'm all ears but please respect my position and what i'm trying to do. I ran for my district because the hobby I love, the hobby I've been involved in since middle school in the 70's and shaped my career path into Naval aviation, that hobby, that LOVE, is under fire and I want to help in any way I can.

But if you follow the route of others with this "taj muncie" stuff then I'll be more likely to tune you out.
Old 01-04-2020, 04:18 PM
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I sent you a PM
Old 01-04-2020, 05:44 PM
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Trust me, Andy, I do trust you, more so than most. To me, you've earned that. What I don't trust is the rest of the people in Muncie and the EC due to what I've seen over the past year or so, hence the "Taj Muncie" comment. I get that there are some things you can't discuss in the forum and other things could be sensitive, been in that situation myself in another hobby. That's where common sense comes in. I just worry that others will try to keep you silent on things we modelers would be better off knowing that aren't "sensitive" in nature.
Old 01-04-2020, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post

But if you follow the route of others with this "taj muncie" stuff then I'll be more likely to tune you out.
I've been there. It's not a dump, but it is far from a "taj". I assume those who use that name have never actually been there.
Old 01-04-2020, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
I've been there. It's not a dump, but it is far from a "taj". I assume those who use that name have never actually been there.

Bill, I've never been there but it is on the bucket list along with Visalia. I could be wrong here and if I am I hope the group that I reference here will point it out but my impression of those who place no value on the facility in Muncie also place no value on the history of our hobby. I would love to be able to see in person the progression of equipment that brought us to where we are today. I would love to see some of the aircraft in person that I have read about and seen pictures of over my 4 decades in the hobby. Seeing Steve R's Reed Falcon, Skip Miller's Aquila, Ernie Huber's Jet Ranger etc would be a dream come true for me. Am I really that alone? I certainly hope not. Me hearing that the AMA museum and flying sites have no value is like saying that all the monuments in DC along with the Smithsonian has no value.
Old 01-05-2020, 06:01 AM
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It gave me chills the first time walking through the museum seeing that stuff.

.
Old 01-05-2020, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by warningshot View Post
What, if anything, is the AMA doing to help the AMA non-club members to be able to keep flying under the new FAA rules that are on the way? I contacted AMA but they have not returned my phone call.
So , getting back to Warningshot's original topic , I'm left wondering , has there been mention from AMA HQ about any protection efforts on behalf of the AMA members who don't belong to a flying club ?

As Mongo stated , past AMA President Dave Brown said just under 50% of AMA members don't belong to a flying club , that's a pretty large segment of our membership that should be just as deserving of representation as the club flyers and it would be nice to hear that they aren't being left behind .
Old 01-05-2020, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
So , getting back to Warningshot's original topic , I'm left wondering , has there been mention from AMA HQ about any protection efforts on behalf of the AMA members who don't belong to a flying club ?

As Mongo stated , past AMA President Dave Brown said just under 50% of AMA members don't belong to a flying club , that's a pretty large segment of our membership that should be just as deserving of representation as the club flyers and it would be nice to hear that they aren't being left behind .

That is of course a great point and I certainly hope that there is something in the works. I understand that not everyone has an AMA club site within reasonable travel time. I would also like to understand why those who do have a club site close choose not to join. For me that is a no brainier however that is my perspective. I would like to understand the perspective of those who choose not to join a club when one or more are available.
Old 01-05-2020, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
That is of course a great point and I certainly hope that there is something in the works. I understand that not everyone has an AMA club site within reasonable travel time. I would also like to understand why those who do have a club site close choose not to join. For me that is a no brainier however that is my perspective. I would like to understand the perspective of those who choose not to join a club when one or more are available.
Speed , I can provide an answer from both perspectives , if you can believe that !

I am a longtime member of an AMA chartered flying club located in eastern Massachusetts , and when I go to the club field to fly part of the reason is of course being in the company of like minded people .

I also fly at a public site where RC flying is permitted , no club affiliation required , and more times than not it's just me , myself , and I at the field , not another person , RC flyer or not , to be seen .

Now there are those times when I want to socialize , and there are also times where I enjoy the peace & quiet of flying by myself , especially so if I'm practicing a particular maneuver or just in a mood to fly alone .

And so this my "skin in the game" with regards to Warningshot's question , As an AMA member at times I fly club , at times I fly non club , and I for sure would like to see BOTH of my flying situations protected
Old 01-05-2020, 10:03 AM
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That is a good answer as well. I agree that sometimes solitude is a good thing. That is usually my building time. I get that there are different levels of being a social being. As you know I fly mostly for competitive reasons. To clarify that a bit more, I am not trying to be better then others IMO that is not what competition is all about. For me it is seeing an improvement in myself from the last contest and just as important if not more since I design all my own contest aircraft except my sailplanes is having my engineering valadated through performance. I love being around other modelers for many reasons including being able to mentor those who are open to it but listening to other ways of doing things. For me people are an avenue to constant learning through their experiences and for me to share mine as well.

I just hate to see guys say that they wont join a club because the club guys are a bunch of_______ or rules are constantly being broken, nobody wants to help the new guy etc. IMO those are just a bunch of excuses, maybe because I have never experienced that sort of behavior. Don't get me wrong, there have at times been those one or two guys that seem to rub everyone the wrong way, I just don't let them bother me. I'm there to enjoy my time at the field and I don't have a habit of letting anyone interfere with that.
Old 01-05-2020, 03:47 PM
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Speed: Regarding your comment "I just hate to see guys say that they wont join a club because the club guys are a bunch of_______"
Don't for a minute doubt that that's true in some, but certainly not all cases.
About six years ago two other guys and I put together a fun fly, a "beauty contest" for about twelve different categories of aircraft. Together we hand crafted a pretty nice plaque for each. Made up sign in sheets, scoring sheets, category signs, arranged food, etc, etc. Our problem came in when we discovered that we did this on our own without consulting the club president so when we announced the event at a club meeting the club president had one helluva hissy fit. We can't do that without his permission, I'm not a bonafide contest director, etc. He even sent a flurry of emails to AMA HQ to prove his point (which he never did! It wasn't a sanctioned event.). He made such a ruckus that we just flat cancelled the event....wasn't worth it.
Well, we got kicked out of the airport and fortunately found a wonderful new place to fly on a South Georgia farm. Even had an old ultralight runway to operate from. Well, a new president takes office because he has an "in" with the landowner. He's a business owner and fairly well off. The old president becomes the secretary.
The core group of five or six (officers too) are all fairly well healed and are into 3D, big airplanes, trailers, etc. The remaining twenty or so are just common folks.
Recent monthly meeting (just the officers plus maybe a couple more) 'cause it's too far for many of us to drive. New edict: Everyone WILL participate in mowing the field or pay an assessment. OK, fair enuff....works out to about once per month. EXCEPT: Need to bring your own mower....and the runway, road in, and pavilion area must be mowed.
Next meeting I tried to explain to the rule makers that it would be pretty hard for some of us to comply....some don't own riding mowers, many need to drive very long distances (even from Florida), etc. Not all of us had the big trailers and equipment nor did we live very close. Oh wow! Not taken very well.
Volunteered with a friend to take a shot at it.
Borrowed a trailer from neighbor. Drove 80 miles or so round trip. took a little over three hours to mow just the runway. Yeah, just the elite four or five need an eight of a mile long by sixty foot wide runway. I did the runway, my buddy did the pit area (huge space for the elite group pickups, trailers and tents). Oh yes, I had to mow my neighbor's yard in return for borrowing the trailer. AT least he brought out a cold beer when I got done. A little over six hours of my time and effort to mow just the runway.
Sent what I thought was a polite email to Pres and Vice detailing what I went thru. No response. Missed next meeting.
At meeting I missed passed a resolution that any club member could be voted out of the club for causing a problem (don't remember the exact wording).
Next meeting first order of business secretary (ex President above) makes a motion to have me banned from club.
For what? Sending a polite personal email to the current club Pres? As far as I know, most club officers would welcome feedback from their constituents.
The real kicker is that our "Retired Old Farts" group flew only during the week; the controlling body only flew on Sunday or holidays. ***? We rarely even saw them except at club meetings and the rare Sunday.
So guess who the instigator was?
Anyway, to end the story I quit the club and two others went along with me.
I hear they have a new rule, chip in $300 for a mower, dues doubled, and you must mow on schedule. since I hear that only eight or nine members have complied, I guess they'll be mowing pretty often.
Anyway, my point is that club leadership will make or break any/every club. Last club I belonged to in Texas was just the opposite of this last one. Had a really great President and core group of officers/advisers.
So I've had the best and just left the worst ever. Now the ROFs fly at a friends house. Not much room but we have a great time!

Secretary/ex-Pres favorite comment: "If you can't afford the hobby just get out of it"

Last edited by golf4two; 01-05-2020 at 03:54 PM. Reason: Added sentence

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