Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > AMA Discussions
Reload this Page >

Comment on tbe FAA NPRM

Notices
AMA Discussions Discuss AMA policies, decisions & any other AMA related topics here.

Comment on tbe FAA NPRM

Old 01-24-2020, 11:07 AM
  #126  
RCUer75345
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
You need to understand what a "public comment" is. It is NOT a comment on an obscure Internet forum. They are the actual comments made by people in response to the NPRM on Regulations.gov.

I am still composing my response. It runs three pages long now. I am taking the time to make sure I say everything I want to say as clearly as I can. March 2, 2020 is the current deadline and there is no extra credit for how fast you make a comment.
Understand, and I'm doing the same thing. I do think a public forum could serve as a good place to kick around ideas so that more people could incorporate them in their comments. If the FAA hears the same thing (but not as a form letter) from multiple sources it's more likely to take it seriously.
Old 01-24-2020, 12:01 PM
  #127  
astrohog
My Feedback: (1)
 
astrohog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 2,038
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by grognard View Post
So I ask each one who hasn't previously responded: What NPRM comments are YOU planning to submit?
NONE. That ship sailed YEARS ago. Where were you then? On the, “AMA has our back, don’t worry!” bandwagon? LOL. When “we” had a REAL chance at keeping the status quo (or some close resemblance to it).

Just like my conservative vote doesn’t mean a thing on the LEFT coast.

Regards,

Astro
Old 01-24-2020, 02:08 PM
  #128  
RCUer75345
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
NONE.
Then you have no right to complain when the fertilizer hits the impeller.
Old 01-24-2020, 03:04 PM
  #129  
astrohog
My Feedback: (1)
 
astrohog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 2,038
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by grognard View Post
Then you have no right to complain when the fertilizer hits the impeller.
Except for the fact that I've been lobbying for traditional modeling for over 5 years. Where have you been? Do your homework before slinging mud. The ship sailed YEARS ago!
"The AMA has got us covered, no need to worry"

Astro
Old 01-24-2020, 03:32 PM
  #130  
speedracerntrixie
My Feedback: (29)
 
speedracerntrixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Happy Valley, Oregon
Posts: 7,513
Received 32 Likes on 32 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Speed , for real , except for the personal insults he tosses around , I agree with a lot of his posts and would not exclude him on the basis of not being an AMA member , for the reason that he is a MAAC member who flys at AMA clubs when he's here in the US . I'm fine with that and figure as a frequent AMA guest under AMA / MAAC agreement sure he has the right to throw his two cents worth in here . Of course , more opinions than barbs from him would be nice , but then I guess free LIPOS & Beer would be nice too , and I figure there's about as much chance of either actually happening





Yep , I'll second Astro here , well stated post .

Gee , if the "like post" function worked down here in RCU's dungeon maybe I'd even go so far as to give it a like ....


I wanted to thank you for that response concerning Dennis' nationality. I accept your answer and will not press the matter anymore with you. Yes Dennis can be a bit harsh but IMO no more than Astro, however who gets called on it and who does not?
Old 01-24-2020, 04:03 PM
  #131  
astrohog
My Feedback: (1)
 
astrohog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 2,038
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Yes Dennis can be a bit harsh but IMO no more than Astro, however who gets called on it and who does not?
Well, if you mean that by being factual I am harsh, then I can accept that!

Astro
Old 01-24-2020, 04:14 PM
  #132  
RCUer75345
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
Where have you been?
Well, since you ask -- I took an extended break from the hobby during 1991 - 2016. So five years ago it wasn't my problem.

I didn't rejoin the AMA until 2019, since I was quite happy being a "left out" flying at a public park. When I checked out the local AMA club field, I discovered that AMA membership did indeed provide "value for money" in my case.

I had read some "buzz" about Remote ID, and thought it might make sense if implemented in a reasonable manner. Didn't pay much attention because there were never any specifics.

Then the day after Christmas, I find my holiday present from the Federal Government. They want to make it impossible for me to build a model with Remote ID installed, and will only let me buy one if it comes ready-to-fly with a transmitter I don't need. But at least they'll let me fly my old ones if my club files for FRIA status.

I called my club president, who knew nothing about any of this. He commissioned me to give a presentation at the January club meeting. All I saw on the member's faces was shock and disbelief. I've encountered the same air of unreality at local hobby shops. Nobody seems to believe the FAA could really be planning something this unjust and stupid.

And then I find someone here who appears to be orchestrating an effort to take from us even the little the FAA would leave us. Should I just roll over and play dead? I think not.
Old 01-24-2020, 04:15 PM
  #133  
speedracerntrixie
My Feedback: (29)
 
speedracerntrixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Happy Valley, Oregon
Posts: 7,513
Received 32 Likes on 32 Posts
Default

I can't say what I meant without breaking site rules.
Old 01-24-2020, 04:33 PM
  #134  
astrohog
My Feedback: (1)
 
astrohog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 2,038
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by grognard View Post
Well, since you ask -- I took an extended break from the hobby during 1991 - 2016. So five years ago it wasn't my problem.
so, just like all things hobby and extra-curricular in nature it is "your turn". Thanks for carrying the torch, just be careful how you treat those that donated time and effort before you. If you understood what has been going on for the last few years, maybe you would have a better understanding of why some of us here feel let down by our AMA.

Originally Posted by grognard
I called my club president, who knew nothing about any of this. He commissioned me to give a presentation at the January club meeting. All I saw on the member's faces was shock and disbelief. I've encountered the same air of unreality at local hobby shops. Nobody seems to believe the FAA could really be planning something this unjust and stupid.
Don't you find it the least bit disturbing that your club president knew nothing about all of this? Don't you think that one of the primary purposes of the AMA is to communicate these things to our club officers? Especially something of this magnitude?

Astro
Old 01-24-2020, 06:15 PM
  #135  
RCUer75345
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
If you understood what has been going on for the last few years, maybe you would have a better understanding of why some of us here feel let down by our AMA.
So you're sitting on the bench at the bottom of the ninth with a sore arm? Well don't rag on the guys whose turn it is at bat.

Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
Don't you find it the least bit disturbing that your club president knew nothing about all of this?
It's not that surprising considering the Feds released it during the holiday season. I am less than impressed by the "guidance" received so far from AMA HQ, and suspect they haven't waded through the full proposal yet. Hey, it's "only" 319 pages long and they didn't necessarily have the whole week between Christmas and New Year's Day to read it like I did. But the comment period isn't over yet, and I expect more "guidance" is coming. I hope so.
Old 01-24-2020, 07:14 PM
  #136  
astrohog
My Feedback: (1)
 
astrohog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 2,038
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by grognard View Post
So you're sitting on the bench at the bottom of the ninth with a sore arm? Well don't rag on the guys whose turn it is at bat.
I just said, "thanks". Geesh!

Originally Posted by grognard
It's not that surprising considering the Feds released it during the holiday season. I am less than impressed by the "guidance" received so far from AMA HQ, and suspect they haven't waded through the full proposal yet. Hey, it's "only" 319 pages long and they didn't necessarily have the whole week between Christmas and New Year's Day to read it like I did. But the comment period isn't over yet, and I expect more "guidance" is coming. I hope so.
UMMMM.....In case you were unaware.......This legislation could end our hobby as we know it. The folks at Muncie get PAID to read, understand and act on these things. It is their JOB! If they couldn't be bothered to read it because it was released during the Holidays, the AMA is even more irresponsible than previously thought. Still can't see the forest yet, can you?

Astro
Old 01-24-2020, 07:48 PM
  #137  
RCUer75345
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
The folks at Muncie get PAID to read, understand and act on these things. It is their JOB! If they couldn't be bothered to read it because it was released during the Holidays, the AMA is even more irresponsible than previously thought.
The folks at Muncie are also human beings, and I understand there are only three on the Government Affairs team. They don't just sit around reading, they also have meetings to attend, phone calls to take, e-mails to answer, and all the other things people do in any office job. And they take vacations, same as the rest of us. If they didn't get back to work until after New Year's, well, I don't blame them.

But I do hope they are slogging through it and will have more guidance for the membership during the second half of the comment period. I'm not waiting for them -- I have drafts of my comments already.
Old 01-26-2020, 10:06 PM
  #138  
Hydro Junkie
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Marysville, WA
Posts: 8,203
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes on 17 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by grognard View Post
The folks at Muncie are also human beings, and I understand there are only three on the Government Affairs team. They don't just sit around reading, they also have meetings to attend, phone calls to take, e-mails to answer, and all the other things people do in any office job. And they take vacations, same as the rest of us. If they didn't get back to work until after New Year's, well, I don't blame them.

But I do hope they are slogging through it and will have more guidance for the membership during the second half of the comment period. I'm not waiting for them -- I have drafts of my comments already.
I do blame them. My reasoning is very simple and straightforward:
1) If a certain percentage of my coworkers take time off, I can't. Why would the whole team be off at the same time when there is so much for the people they are supposed to be working for, be it members or not, to lose?
2) Are you sure they attend meetings? The girl that was on that board had no clue as to the purpose of that board or any information as to what the AMA is even supposed to do. Worse yet, she's a paid member of the legal staff, IIRC
3) Are they answering personal or business calls or emails? Their track record says they are all personal
Old 01-27-2020, 05:41 AM
  #139  
speedracerntrixie
My Feedback: (29)
 
speedracerntrixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Happy Valley, Oregon
Posts: 7,513
Received 32 Likes on 32 Posts
Default

Hydro, please keep,in mind that a certain member here has been giving me a pounding for presenting speculation. Something that I would classify your " personal phone calls " comment as. Seems there is an obvious double standard at play should your comment be accepted by that member.
Old 01-27-2020, 06:08 AM
  #140  
astrohog
My Feedback: (1)
 
astrohog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 2,038
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Hydro, please keep,in mind that a certain member here has been giving me a pounding for presenting speculation. Something that I would classify your " personal phone calls " comment as. Seems there is an obvious double standard at play should your comment be accepted by that member.
Whine, Whine, Whine........
I do not mind speculation, I just mind it when it is used as the facts as a basis for conclusions and other personal attacks. LOL

Astro
Old 01-27-2020, 06:15 AM
  #141  
Hydro Junkie
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Marysville, WA
Posts: 8,203
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes on 17 Posts
Default

Okay Astro, let's give Speed a pass on this one as he's made a valid comment on my previous post.
That said, I would agree with you, Speed, it is speculation, derived from the available information. Not one of us here has all the facts, THAT IS A FACT WE CAN AGREE ON. What we also can agree on is that the players involved, those being the FAA, AMA, EAA, DOD and pilot's associations, are not giving us all of the information we would need to make a fact based decision on whether we agree or disagree with the present situation before us. Just one thing to keep in mind, my previous post was in response to Grognard's post prior. As I see it:
1) If the AMA's legal team all took the holidays off, then they don't deserve the pay they are receiving as they should be giving the membership, not just the EC, up to date information so that the members can act in their own best interest by letting the FAA and Congress know if they back or oppose what the FAA is proposing within the given comment period
2) The members of the legal team need to understand where they are supposed to be arguing from. That girl on the video had no clue and shouldn't have even been on the panel, showing a serious lack of professionalism on the AMA's part, be it the command staff or just the legal staff.
3) I can speculate with some degree of confidence that not all the communications responded to is professionally based. I see it every day at work, be it clerical, admin or manufacturing staff checking personal email, voicemail, twitter, FB, etc. I've even watched people walk into walls, doorframes, aircraft lifting devices, etc, because they are more preoccupied with their own communications than doing their jobs. Why would we not suspect the legal staff is doing the same, at least to some extent?

Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 01-27-2020 at 06:19 AM.
Old 01-27-2020, 07:35 AM
  #142  
RCUer75345
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
If the AMA's legal team all took the holidays off, then they don't deserve the pay they are receiving...
What if the vacation schedule was set in June or October? What if AMA HQ was just as blindsided by this as everyone else?

Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
The members of the legal team need to understand where they are supposed to be arguing from. That girl on the video had no clue and shouldn't have even been on the panel...
I haven't seen the video, and I'm not going to waste time watching it. So what if one's not up to it? Does that mean the whole staff should be fired?

Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
I can speculate with some degree of confidence that not all the communications responded to is professionally based. I see it every day at work...
OK, then you should either give the AMA staff the same slack you evidently do your coworkers -- or put on a similar campaign for a housecleaning at your workplace.
Old 01-27-2020, 08:57 AM
  #143  
astrohog
My Feedback: (1)
 
astrohog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 2,038
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by grognard View Post
What if the vacation schedule was set in June or October? What if AMA HQ was just as blindsided by this as everyone else?
Blindsided? The AMA has relentlessly told its membership that they are engaged with the Feds at every level through this ordeal that has been going on for years. The AMA created paid positions in order that the AMA could advocate for, and be liaisons to, the AMA membership where it concerns Government involvement in our hobby. Please explain how they could have been blindsided by this?


Originally Posted by grognard
I haven't seen the video, and I'm not going to waste time watching it. So what if one's not up to it? Does that mean the whole staff should be fired?
I have no idea where you came to that conclusion, I don’t believe that was Hydro’s point at all, nor did he say that. But the point that some of us have been tirelessly trying to make (hence we be labeled, “anti-AMA” or “AMA haters”) is that we are disappointed in the AMA leadership for not doing enough to protect our current levels of modeling, “freedoms”, and not providing the value that they claim, or that we expect and deserve for paying our dues. Hiring incompetent staff with our $$ to represent us on important issues is just one more example of this. You are spending a lot of your personal time and effort to respond to the FAA’s proposal, I think you should spend the few minutes necessary to watch the video and see for yourself how the paid AMA staff are representing our modeling interests. It might give you more perspective and understanding as to why some of us are disappointed in the AMA, as well as to why it seems as though we are not getting the consideration we think we deserve from the Feds.

Astro
Old 01-27-2020, 09:11 AM
  #144  
RCUer75345
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
Please explain how they could have been blindsided by this?
The same way DJI was evidently blindsided? They went out "on risk" and developed the Aeroscope system, hoping for some nice fat contracts once the FAA came out with Remote ID specs. Well, surprise, surprise! Aeroscope won't qualify and they've been left holding the bag.

How could this happen? Well, maybe some senior manager at FAA, or a political appointee, put pressure on the FAA to deliver an NPRM by the end of the year. No arguments; cease research; "bring me a rock, NOW". Well, gee, "if you want it real bad, you get it REAL BAD".

Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
You are spending a lot of your personal time and effort to respond to the FAA’s proposal, I think you should spend the few minutes necessary to watch the video and see for yourself how the paid AMA staff are representing our modeling interests.
Sorry, that won't help me write comments to the NPRM. If the AMA issues additional guidance before the deadline I will of course read it closely. I'm not bound to conform to it however.

OIOW: I'm more interested in finding a life raft than worrying about whose fault it was that we hit the iceberg...
Old 01-27-2020, 12:53 PM
  #145  
astrohog
My Feedback: (1)
 
astrohog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 2,038
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by grognard View Post
The same way DJI was evidently blindsided? They went out "on risk" and developed the Aeroscope system, hoping for some nice fat contracts once the FAA came out with Remote ID specs. Well, surprise, surprise! Aeroscope won't qualify and they've been left holding the bag.
Not even close to the same! But it fits tour narrative, so once again.... YOU ARE CORRECT! 🥱

Originally Posted by grognard
Sorry, that won't help me write comments to the NPRM.
More pigeon chess! I never said it would!
What I said it would help with is the context as to why some of the folks here are disgruntled with the AMA, rather than “haters”. But that doesn’t fit your narrative either, so nevermind......
Originally Posted by grognard
OIOW: I'm more interested in finding a life raft than worrying about whose fault it was that we hit the iceberg...
I’m not looking to find fault for finding fault’s sake as there is no benefit to merely blaming. I am pointing out that while we continue to pay dues, the AMA continues to disappoint. Just like the example that was cited where a club President (and presumably the majority of said club) had no idea what was going on, these forums are a place where we can get word out to inform folks of what is really going on and how their dollars are being spent. “Don’t mind the man behind the curtain!”

Astro
Old 01-27-2020, 01:38 PM
  #146  
RCUer75345
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
I’m not looking to find fault for finding fault’s sake as there is no benefit to merely blaming.
Agreed. There are 35 days left in the comment period.

Nothing else you said makes any difference to me, at all.

Old 01-27-2020, 03:08 PM
  #147  
astrohog
My Feedback: (1)
 
astrohog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 2,038
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by grognard View Post
Nothing else you said makes any difference to me, at all.
And neither will your response to the FAA, but if it makes you feel better, have at it!

Astro
Old 01-27-2020, 03:38 PM
  #148  
speedracerntrixie
My Feedback: (29)
 
speedracerntrixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Happy Valley, Oregon
Posts: 7,513
Received 32 Likes on 32 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Okay Astro, let's give Speed a pass on this one as he's made a valid comment on my previous post.
That said, I would agree with you, Speed, it is speculation, derived from the available information. Not one of us here has all the facts, THAT IS A FACT WE CAN AGREE ON. What we also can agree on is that the players involved, those being the FAA, AMA, EAA, DOD and pilot's associations, are not giving us all of the information we would need to make a fact based decision on whether we agree or disagree with the present situation before us. Just one thing to keep in mind, my previous post was in response to Grognard's post prior. As I see it:
1) If the AMA's legal team all took the holidays off, then they don't deserve the pay they are receiving as they should be giving the membership, not just the EC, up to date information so that the members can act in their own best interest by letting the FAA and Congress know if they back or oppose what the FAA is proposing within the given comment period
2) The members of the legal team need to understand where they are supposed to be arguing from. That girl on the video had no clue and shouldn't have even been on the panel, showing a serious lack of professionalism on the AMA's part, be it the command staff or just the legal staff.
3) I can speculate with some degree of confidence that not all the communications responded to is professionally based. I see it every day at work, be it clerical, admin or manufacturing staff checking personal email, voicemail, twitter, FB, etc. I've even watched people walk into walls, doorframes, aircraft lifting devices, etc, because they are more preoccupied with their own communications than doing their jobs. Why would we not suspect the legal staff is doing the same, at least to some extent?

Thanks Hydro. I do actually agree with most of your post here. It would of course be ridiculous of me to beleive that there aren't occasions where employees anywhere don't make the occasional personal call, text or check email. We actually take training classes on how people have become addicted to social media and how that affects the workplace and how to elffectivly manage the situation.

That being said, I have to think that everyone at AMA HQ has to realize that they are not only fighting for their members but they are fighting for their jobs as well. Having more organizations join the battle such as Flite Test, PMA, EAA etc. can only help. At this point I wish they would band together and demonstrate a united front but that is nothing more then a pipe dream.
Old 01-27-2020, 03:39 PM
  #149  
speedracerntrixie
My Feedback: (29)
 
speedracerntrixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Happy Valley, Oregon
Posts: 7,513
Received 32 Likes on 32 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
And neither will your response to the FAA, but if it makes you feel better, have at it!

Astro

And you know this how? Did anyone at FAA share that thought with you?

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.