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FRIAs and the "Casual User"

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FRIAs and the "Casual User"

Old 01-27-2020, 08:10 AM
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RCUer75345
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Default FRIAs and the "Casual User"

Member Hydro Junkie asked the following question:

Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
How would this play out:
1) I don't have an AMA card or belong to a club.
2) I get a RTF for my birthday that isn't remote ID compliant since they don't exist
3) I take it to a local flying field that's designated as a FRIA and ask to fly
So, will I be allowed to fly or will I be told to come back when I have an AMA card and join the club? What about me showing up a second time, or a third?
So let's discuss: Are FRIAs cheaper or more expensive for "casual users", the guys with one or two planes who are just starting to experiment with the hobby? When you get down to specific cases, I think they will often be cheaper in any given year.

Let's assume the NPRM goes into effect "as written", as of June 1, 2020. Let's talk about a new flier, a kid (of any age) who received a non Remote ID compliant UAS (a model airplane) for his birthday. Let's assume his birthday is May 31.

Case 1: Johnny gets his toy plane May 31, 2020. The NPRM takes effect the next day, but there is a three year grace period. So Johnny can fly his toy plane under existing rules until June 1, 2023. He has no reason to worry about FRIAs, CBO memberships, or club dues unless he wants to. And in three years, most Johnnys will have worn out the toy plane and/or lost interest.

Case 2: The plane arrives May 31, 2021. Same as Case 1, except Johnny only has two years left in the grace period. Probably the same outcome.

Case 3: Plane arrives May 31, 2022. Same as Case 1, except Johnny only has one year left in the grace period. Let's assume Johnny still has the plane June 1, 2023 when the plane is restricted to FRIAs. Johnny has a choice: Join a CBO club, or buy a new plane. What will each cost?

- Using my own club as an example, Johnny can keep flying his existing plane for $95. This includes a $75 AMA membership and a $20 introductory membership rate.
- Or Johnny can buy a new RTF Remote ID compliant UAS. We don't know what these will cost yet, but early adopters of new technology often pay higher prices. The FAA's lowball estimates in the NPRM were for modifying drones that already had flight controllers installed.
I'm thinking an "all-in-one" solution for PLANES will probably require a smartphone based transmitter. I have one of those -- a Spektrum ix12. It costs $600. Some of that goes for the "model memory" and programming features, but I'm thinking a "dumbed-down" "ix6e" is probably going to cost at least $250. And that's not including the plane.
So Johnny's cost to go Remote ID compliant is probably going to be in the $300 range. And that's not counting the $25 "USS" subscription and the $3 - $5 per plane monthly service charge. Just that eats up a lot of the $75 AMA dues. That's also not counting insurance costs, if he can find a provider.

So clearly the cheapest option for Johnny in 2023 will be to join a CBO club and keep flying his existing plane.

What about future years? Club dues will increase - the $20 "teaser" is only for the first season. Our club currently charges $100 per year. But -- if enough "Johnnys" join the dues (which mainly cover field rent and upkeep) can probably be reduced. And even $175 is less than his costs to convert to a Remote ID compliant system IN ANY GIVEN YEAR.

Now of course the time will inevitably come when Johnny's toy plane wears out, and he either has to quit flying or go Remote ID compliant. At that point, if he wants to leave the club nothing is making him stay. His new compliant plane can be flown anywhere he wants, so long as not otherwise prohibited by law. If he CHOOSES to pay for CBO and Club membership at that point it's a FREE choice, not a forced one.

Case 4: Plane arrives May 31, 2023. Only Remote ID compliant UAS are legal to sell beginning June 1, 2022 (two years, not three, after the NPRM takes effect). So Johnny can fly his new Remote ID compliant toy anwhere he wishes. No one can FORCE him to join a club or fly in a FRIA.

Thoughts?
Old 01-27-2020, 09:51 AM
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mach5nchimchim
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Case number 4, cities and municipalities can set up take off restrictions like they do now. They can't control the skies, but can control if you can take off and land...
Old 01-27-2020, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by grognard View Post
Member Hydro Junkie asked the following question:



So let's discuss: Are FRIAs cheaper or more expensive for "casual users", the guys with one or two planes who are just starting to experiment with the hobby? When you get down to specific cases, I think they will often be cheaper in any given year.

Let's assume the NPRM goes into effect "as written", as of June 1, 2020. Let's talk about a new flier, a kid (of any age) who received a non Remote ID compliant UAS (a model airplane) for his birthday. Let's assume his birthday is May 31.

Case 1: Johnny gets his toy plane May 31, 2020. The NPRM takes effect the next day, but there is a three year grace period. So Johnny can fly his toy plane under existing rules until June 1, 2023. He has no reason to worry about FRIAs, CBO memberships, or club dues unless he wants to. And in three years, most Johnnys will have worn out the toy plane and/or lost interest.

Case 2: The plane arrives May 31, 2021. Same as Case 1, except Johnny only has two years left in the grace period. Probably the same outcome.

Case 3: Plane arrives May 31, 2022. Same as Case 1, except Johnny only has one year left in the grace period. Let's assume Johnny still has the plane June 1, 2023 when the plane is restricted to FRIAs. Johnny has a choice: Join a CBO club, or buy a new plane. What will each cost?

- Using my own club as an example, Johnny can keep flying his existing plane for $95. This includes a $75 AMA membership and a $20 introductory membership rate.
- Or Johnny can buy a new RTF Remote ID compliant UAS. We don't know what these will cost yet, but early adopters of new technology often pay higher prices. The FAA's lowball estimates in the NPRM were for modifying drones that already had flight controllers installed.
I'm thinking an "all-in-one" solution for PLANES will probably require a smartphone based transmitter. I have one of those -- a Spektrum ix12. It costs $600. Some of that goes for the "model memory" and programming features, but I'm thinking a "dumbed-down" "ix6e" is probably going to cost at least $250. And that's not including the plane.
So Johnny's cost to go Remote ID compliant is probably going to be in the $300 range. And that's not counting the $25 "USS" subscription and the $3 - $5 per plane monthly service charge. Just that eats up a lot of the $75 AMA dues. That's also not counting insurance costs, if he can find a provider.

So clearly the cheapest option for Johnny in 2023 will be to join a CBO club and keep flying his existing plane.

What about future years? Club dues will increase - the $20 "teaser" is only for the first season. Our club currently charges $100 per year. But -- if enough "Johnnys" join the dues (which mainly cover field rent and upkeep) can probably be reduced. And even $175 is less than his costs to convert to a Remote ID compliant system IN ANY GIVEN YEAR.

Now of course the time will inevitably come when Johnny's toy plane wears out, and he either has to quit flying or go Remote ID compliant. At that point, if he wants to leave the club nothing is making him stay. His new compliant plane can be flown anywhere he wants, so long as not otherwise prohibited by law. If he CHOOSES to pay for CBO and Club membership at that point it's a FREE choice, not a forced one.

Case 4: Plane arrives May 31, 2023. Only Remote ID compliant UAS are legal to sell beginning June 1, 2022 (two years, not three, after the NPRM takes effect). So Johnny can fly his new Remote ID compliant toy anwhere he wishes. No one can FORCE him to join a club or fly in a FRIA.

Thoughts?
And you have said what I expected:
CASE 1) I have to join the AMA and club to fly= Pay to play
CASE 2) I have to join the AMA and club to fly= Pay to play
CASE 3) l have to buy a smart phone(I currently don't have one), pay for a subscription and pay a monthly fee OR join the AMA and club to fly= Pay to play either way
CASE 4) I have a high school football field a mile from my house and another play field park three miles away. If I fly at either one, I run the risk of being kicked off the property as a danger to others. Both sites are also under the approach/departure pattern to an uncontrolled airport, the play field three miles away and the football field five miles. I can pretty much assume that, since I've already been kicked off a lake with my R/C boat, in a park by a park ranger even though there was no one else there, I can only assume I would be facing the same thing from local police or sheriff's deputies
Old 01-27-2020, 04:21 PM
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RCUer75345
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
...Pay to play...
I don't deny it's "pay to play", but the point is the FRIA option is CHEAPER in any given year than the alternative.

Some people here want to eliminate the FRIA option. In that case your situation will be:

Case 1: Your plane is junk in three years
Case 2: Your plane is junk in two years
Case 3: Your plane is junk in one year. After that, you won't be able to fly a new one ANYWHERE unless it's Remote ID compliant.
Case 4: You can't even BUY a new plane unless it's Remote ID compliant. And there will be no FRIA to pay to play at -- so you might not have anywhere to play AT ALL.

You think this is better than the alternative?
Old 01-27-2020, 07:46 PM
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I hope someone stops the FAA from what it intends to do. The FAA has no business stopping us from building or purchasing models the way we always have. And remote ID should be
a small unit about the size of a receiver that we can install in any model that we are currently flying
Old 01-28-2020, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ira d View Post
I hope someone stops the FAA from what it intends to do. The FAA has no business stopping us from building or purchasing models the way we always have. And remote ID should be a small unit about the size of a receiver that we can install in any model that we are currently flying
The only one who can stop the FAA now is YOU. There are 34 days left in the NPRM comment period.
Old 01-29-2020, 05:27 AM
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And nobody that applied for an extension got one granted including EAA, AOPA, AMA and a few others.
Old 01-29-2020, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
And nobody that applied for an extension got one granted including EAA, AOPA, AMA and a few others.
Extension or exemption?
Extension for the comment period, or extension for the proposed timeframe to implement?
Old 01-29-2020, 06:10 PM
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Did the FAA announce that the comment period would not be extended? Or has it just not happened yet?
Old 01-29-2020, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by grognard View Post
Did the FAA announce that the comment period would not be extended? Or has it just not happened yet?

They have refused all requests to extend the comment period. Ends 3/2/2020

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