Hydro Junkie

This isn't a matter of fixing stupid or anything else. Just because the FedEx Open is titled that and has been for who knows how long, it wouldn't take anything to add IS CANCELLED/POSTPONED after the event title in the thread title or, conversely, in the first post. It's a simple way to let everyone know what's going on. All of your "The French Cancelled" and other rhetoric is nothing more that just another way of slamming Franklin. It would really be nice to see all of those that are so heavily mainlining the AMA's rhetoric start using common sense rather than slamming everyone that doesn't see things the same way

R_Strowe

I guess I don’t need such things spelled out for me in such simplistic, child-like terms.

I didn’t realize it was such an overbearing burden to have to actually READ a short description of an event to find out if it was CANCELLED or not.

Oh, the weights some must carry on their shoulders .

R_Strowe

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

Ford Canada sending everyone home midnite tomorrow

thepamster

So many posts came about following this post. I got from this that Andy was just thinking about this today. And then the responses from OP himself......well, you read the rest. Wow.

R_Strowe

Um, isn't that exactly what the organizers did? They edited the body of the text to indicate that the event had been cancelled or postponed. And it is not rhetoric. It is in fact exactly what Franklin was proposing. And it is a preposterous proposal.

No, what Franklin proposes is that they change the title of the event, which therefore changes the actual name of the event, all because some people out there are too lazy to actually read the text description of the event.

And am I slamming Franklin? Damn straight I am. I am sick and tired of the constant, nothing but negativity regarding the ONLY organization the is actually fighting for this hobby. Is the AMA perfect? No, but then again nobody is (except Franklin). And whether one likes it or not, there are alternative explanations for EVERYTHING the AMA has done that people find objectionable.

If this contradicts your world view, then I'm sorry. But although we are all entitled to our opinions, there is also a responsibility that goes with making such opinions known. Franklin was banned from another site for crossing that line. He has done the same here, and it is sad that the mods here don't see that as well.

R_Strowe

Hydro Junkie

I've responded to your last post at the end of each section and I think you may be a bit surprised by my responses. I do appreciate the fact that you kept your post mostly respectful and civil as I tried to do the same with my responses and previous post

franklin_m

So, please define the above for us. What is the clear bright line that establishes the difference between expressing one's opinions and the "a responsibility with making such opinions known." Maybe let's just start with the last half of it to make things easy. What is the definition of the term "a responsibility with making such opinions known?" What are it's limits? Is it that some topics are off limits while others are ok? If so, then which ones fall in ok and off limits? Or is it that some are ok sometimes, but not others? If so, when are the ok and when are they not? Or is it that there's a number or frequency to comments that cross the line. If so, how many? How often? So many times a day? A month? Or a year? Or is it a ratio? That one has to have so many positive comments vs. negative ones? Again, what are the numbers. Or is it some other criteria?

My point is that it's exceedingly easy to make a hand-wave statement like "a responsibility that goes with making such opinions known." However in reality that turns out to be nothing but an arbitrary and undefined standard that shifts depending on the point of view. So, since you established this "responsibility with making such opinions known," and have implied that I've not done that, so please take the responsibility for defining what "it" is.

init4fun

Gee , for a guy who just joined RCU not even two months ago , you sure speak like someone whose been around a lot longer "Sick and tired of the constant, nothing but negativity" ? Sure sounds like it's been bothering you for a LOT longer than a month and a half ? Also , what went on at the other site has no bearing on what's discussed here , , , you got smack to talk of what happens at RCG ? Maybe you should keep it over there ?

PS , I am NOT defending Franklin's talking points here , but I will most certainly defend the Man's right to air his opinions just as anyone else here has the right to air theirs . You don't like his opinions/views ? Fine ! By all means attack his talking points and prove to me how their wrong , for real I'll listen to any point/counterpoint you want to present . But when you stoop to the low of attacking someone personally by threatening to have him banned for his opinions , which don't break any RCU rules (or he'd have already been banned long before you joined 1 1/2 months ago) , that's the behavior of a coward in my view , someone who'd rather "shoot the messenger" rather than refute the message .

For my "on topic" part of all of this , a LOT more than just the AMA have been caught off guard with the virus , and once the "rest of the iceberg" was finally seen I believe most organizations , the AMA included , have behaved properly by encouraging the all important "Social Distancing" .......

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

???????????????
Is that like, "alternative facts"??????????????

It doesn't really matter if it contradicts ones world view or not, whether or not it contradicts the facts is what really matters.

While we are all entitled to our opinions, we all must understand that there are right opinions and wrong opinions. Our responsibility when we openly discuss our opinions, is to support them with facts, not argue them to the bitter end and call anyone with opposing views disparaging names.

PRIME example of what I was just talking about, and more logical fallacies! Because YOU say he has crossed the line, does not mean that he has (on RCU, I could care less what happened on another forum, especially THAT one!). You try and push YOUR agenda by calling it sad that he isn't banned here, when in reality, this forum IS moderated, and people are banned all the time. Like his opinions or not, I don't believe that Franklin has broken any of the forum rules here (at least not any that his detractors have not broken engaging in the same discussions).

I find it sad that you, an adult participating in a toy airplane forum, cannot stand the words that another types on a keyboard so much, that you feel you need a moderator to ban them! Do you really not value your freedom of speech so much, that you are willing to try and shut someone up because your opinion differs from theirs? WOW, just WOW!

Astro

Hydro Junkie

Gee, Init, I hadn't even noticed Mr Strowe's join date. That kind of makes Astro the old man on the block and me the next in line. I didn't realize I'd been around the forums for 15 years and 5 months. Does that mean I'm outdated or obsolete? Could I be out of touch as well? DAMMIT, NOW YOU HAVE ME THINKING AND SECOND GUESSING MYSELF!!!!!!!!!
Astro, hard to believe we've been around that long and, being roughly 50 miles apart, have never met. I guess one of these days I need to get one of my Kadet Jrs done and we'll have to meet up and see if it will actually fly.

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

I know, time flies when you are having fun I guess! Honestly, I haven't flown too much the last couple of years, I'm kinda stuck betwen the (non-existent) younger crowd, and the crotchety good ole boys. I have also been catching up on 25 years of honey-do's, now that my youngest son is off to college. I am hoping to get out a bit more this year, and every year I tell myself that I want to go to one of the hydro races in the area. I've always been interested in doing that and even built a Dumas Miller American to about 80% completion but never finished it and sold it a few years ago. I still wish I had it, but i am sure that the new, composite boats are waay better now! Keep me posted on your events, maybe that is where we will meet up for the first time! Do you still have an event at the twin lakes near Smokey point? You probably know of Terry Harmer, he was good friends with a dear friend of mine who passed a few years ago. I know he was quite into the hydro thing many years ago.

Regards,

Astro

Hydro Junkie

My club(R/C Unlimiteds) is scheduled to race at Smokey Point the end of May, don't know if that's going to hold up or not at this point. If it doesn't, our only other scheduled race at Smokey Point will be in September. I'll have to wait and see as there's been no updates on the club site, other than they are keeping watch on the situation and will post updates as the race dates get closer.

init4fun

So , thinking beyond scheduled events which are all pretty much canceled at this point (if not by the people who scheduled them , by the different State's "Social Distancing" mandates) , I'm left wondering , If this virus disruption of daily life continues for some undetermined number of months to come , how will RC flying clubs (like the one I belong to) be able to conduct the business usually done at the regular meetings ? I think one of those on line "Go to Meeting" type softwares would be perfect , since we're in such a tech heavy hobby anyway I'd bet even the older club members have internet access (just look around at all of us fossils posting here ) . I'd bet meeting participation would actually go up if the physical trip to the club field for the meeting was eliminated , and it would get club business done without disobeying the "No gatherings over X* amount of people" restrictions currently in place .

* Last I heard , our Governor Charlie Baker set the limit at 25 or less , this may have changed to an even smaller number recently but last I heard it was 25

franklin_m

I watched news conferences from both CA and NY Governors, and there's a rapidly growing frustration with those who are not following the rules they've set. My state is one step away from a shelter in place order, which I expect to see in a matter of days. I think your plan to do meetings virtually is outstanding.

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

We are, at this point, ok for normal operations but no events/meetings which means 10 people or so out there spread out well and lots of hand washing.

We might be down to shelter in place soon unless the spring breakers go home and stay off the beach and out of the bars

franklin_m

I didn't hear it personally, but I did learn of a report that your Governor is frustrated with people still gathering. California and NY had the same problem, they tried to rely on people to do the right thing and follow the rules, which they did not. I guess NY Governor personally went to the park yesterday and saw groups playing basketball and baseball - and that's WITH a shelter in place order active.

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

It's true, the teenagers that think nothing bad will happen to them were all partying on the beaches like nothing was going on.

Friday afternoon at 5 the cops hit the beaches in many counties (not all) and started running them off.

ira d

If any governor thinks they just can issue a order and people will shut up in their home and stay there they are mistaken, people need to get out and get some fresh air and relieve some tension.

franklin_m

Not what I thought I said. Certainly not what I've seen any of them issue. What they're saying is much like what NY Governor said today. It's fine to go outside, but maintain social distancing unless you're with people you already live with. I think I noted in my comment that he personally saw people playing basketball and baseball - activities where he felt they were not maintaining the social distance that's so critical.

R_Strowe

Go yell "FIRE" in a movie theater and let us know how that goes. Or just start joking with an airline crew about whether they are well rested, or did they stop drinking early enough the night before (regardless of whether they had actually been drinking or not). Those were opinions of the respective passengers. By your argument, we should just ignore them because they were wrong, and go, right? Couldn't do that, because now as always, WORDS HAVE AN EFFECT ON OTHERS. And yours have had a highly detrimental effect on the hobby. That is what I mean by responsibility. When one is continuously stating their opinions for the purpose of advancing their private agenda (destruction of the AMA), then they carry a responsibility for the negative effects of their words, as well as any positive ones.

I've personally had flights that I was operating get cancelled because a passenger started shooting their mouths off about something they THOUGHT they knew. Just because you have the financials for AMA (which admittedly are not good, but that isn't the point), you continue to beat the dead horse about anything to denigrate the AMA. The latest is regarding COVID19. They just put out a podcast discussing this exact subject. They have put out email statements. What more from them do you want? Events are in fact cancelling or being postponed. Apparently not fast enough for you, though. I guess the AMA is not nearly adaptable enough, so it must die? We all get it. You do not like the AMA. Then don't renew. Sit on the sidelines and watch it die. That's all you really want, right?

R_Strowe

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

Any of you had your field 'closed' due to the virus?

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

Not even in the same realm, just more of your logical fallacies.....
Did you read my post? There are right and wrong opinions, opinions based on fact, and those that are not. Those that are not, are obviously worhthless.
The effect that words have on others, are not the responsibility of the speaker (unless of course, they are words that are a call to action, as in your movie theater example).
Franklin has only stated facts to support his opinions. If that has had a detrimental effect on the hobby as you state (can you back that opinion up with facts and statistics?), it is because of the facts, not Franklin's opinions.
I will assume, of course, that you are talking about Propworn, Speedy, Mach5 and yourself, because that is exactly what you do.

PERFECT example of a WRONG opinion!
What IS your point then? That Franklin has a lot of facts about the AMA that show some operational dysfunction, so it is his fault that they are failing?
Nope, you don't get it. Franklin has never said he didn't LIKE the AMA, he simply provided facts that support they are not optimally up to the tasks that they espouse to their membership and the Feds.
If someone had evidence that your club President was stealing money from the club, would you want them to remain silent because it might be detrimental to the club if they exposed the theft?

Astro

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

Is it just me or is Hog's fan-boy-itis for Franklin getting a bit on the weird side??????

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

it is just you

astrohog

My Feedback: (1)

I concur! LOL!