Covid-19, Sanctioned Events, & Aging Demographic
03-22-2020, 05:19 PM
#126
It's just you in this case. Astro put up legitimate rebuttals to Mr Strowe's comments, doing so without attacking or being demeaning. The exchange between them is what this forum should have, not the constant attack posts that many of us have been involved in
03-22-2020, 05:25 PM
#128
I've posed A LOT of direct questions for both propworn, R_Strowe and the others to clarify and support their opinions. I've received no attempts on their part to answer any of them, instead, they just continue to call me names and make snide remarks. I guess they are not really here to have a beneficial discussion after all.
Astro
Astro
03-22-2020, 06:39 PM
#130
No in fact it's rather busy. I think the flying field is one of the safer places to be since its a outdoor activity of course it's a good idea to maintain distance between ourselves and washing hands after
touching objects that are not ours.
touching objects that are not ours.
03-22-2020, 06:49 PM
#131
Not even in the same realm, just more of your logical fallacies....
You may think so, yet because of an incorrect opinion, 48 passengers did not get to their destinations that evening. And my crew and I spent an extra, unscheduled night on the road because somebody would not let their opinion go.
Did you read my post? There are right and wrong opinions, opinions based on fact, and those that are not. Those that are not, are obviously worhthless
And I have not disputed anywhere the facts Franklin gives regarding AMA's financials. AMA IS in trouble. My issue is whether it's mature or prudent to continue to berate and belittle the only (currently)organization fighting for our hobby, however flawed.
The effect that words have on others, are not the responsibility of the speaker (unless of course, they are words that are a call to action, as in your movie theater example).]
Did your mother never teach you "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all?"
Franklin has only stated facts to support his opinions. If that has had a detrimental effect on the hobby as you state (can you back that opinion up with facts and statistics?), it is because of the facts, not Franklin's opinions.
I don't have any issue with Franklin's facts, specifically regarding the financials of the AMA. I strongly disagree with some of their causes he has stated, as there are solid, alternative reasons for them. I am happy to discuss or debate them, if you so wish.
I will assume, of course, that you are talking about Propworn, Speedy, Mach5 and yourself, because that is exactly what you do.
I am simply tired of the continual haranging on the same issues, and then when that isn't enough, to pile on about the wording of the cancellation of the multitude of R/C events around the country. And the fact is AMA has put out guidance on how to handle things. I get info from my airline on a DAILY BASIS, because that is how quickly IT IS CHANGING!
PERFECT example of a WRONG opinion!
Yep, it was a wrong and misinformed opinion. See response above.
What IS your point then? That Franklin has a lot of facts about the AMA that show some operational dysfunction, so it is his fault that they are failing?
My point is that his points have been made over many years now. Either AMA is going to fix it, or not. To the uninitiated, who may read these forums (and I have an example, although I don;t think they want names shared), it is off-putting to continually degrade this organization. And if it's that bad, then why be a member (as I believe Franklin is)? Why associate with such a poorly run group?
Nope, you don't get it. Franklin has never said he didn't LIKE the AMA, he simply provided facts that support they are not optimally up to the tasks that they espouse to their membership and the Feds.
I don't exactly know what he expected results-wise from the AMA and the FAA. But I can also say the same for many modelers out there. AMA was/is doing the best they can, with the confines of the law. As an aside, the biggest mistake I believe they made was forming the model aircraft PAC too late. But everything else they've done over the years has been geared towards the preservation of the hobby.
If someone had evidence that your club President was stealing money from the club, would you want them to remain silent because it might be detrimental to the club if they exposed the theft?
No, of course not. The difference is that it should be brought up to the president of the club. If there is no satisfaction there then bring it to the membership. If they then choose not to pursue it then its OVER. One can then choose to be associated with that organization or not. But to constantly argue the same points over and over, and then to bring up questionable accusations for what solely appears to be an effort to further denigrate an organization, is just petty and selfish.
Astro
You may think so, yet because of an incorrect opinion, 48 passengers did not get to their destinations that evening. And my crew and I spent an extra, unscheduled night on the road because somebody would not let their opinion go.
Did you read my post? There are right and wrong opinions, opinions based on fact, and those that are not. Those that are not, are obviously worhthless
And I have not disputed anywhere the facts Franklin gives regarding AMA's financials. AMA IS in trouble. My issue is whether it's mature or prudent to continue to berate and belittle the only (currently)organization fighting for our hobby, however flawed.
The effect that words have on others, are not the responsibility of the speaker (unless of course, they are words that are a call to action, as in your movie theater example).]
Did your mother never teach you "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all?"
Franklin has only stated facts to support his opinions. If that has had a detrimental effect on the hobby as you state (can you back that opinion up with facts and statistics?), it is because of the facts, not Franklin's opinions.
I don't have any issue with Franklin's facts, specifically regarding the financials of the AMA. I strongly disagree with some of their causes he has stated, as there are solid, alternative reasons for them. I am happy to discuss or debate them, if you so wish.
I will assume, of course, that you are talking about Propworn, Speedy, Mach5 and yourself, because that is exactly what you do.
I am simply tired of the continual haranging on the same issues, and then when that isn't enough, to pile on about the wording of the cancellation of the multitude of R/C events around the country. And the fact is AMA has put out guidance on how to handle things. I get info from my airline on a DAILY BASIS, because that is how quickly IT IS CHANGING!
PERFECT example of a WRONG opinion!
Yep, it was a wrong and misinformed opinion. See response above.
What IS your point then? That Franklin has a lot of facts about the AMA that show some operational dysfunction, so it is his fault that they are failing?
My point is that his points have been made over many years now. Either AMA is going to fix it, or not. To the uninitiated, who may read these forums (and I have an example, although I don;t think they want names shared), it is off-putting to continually degrade this organization. And if it's that bad, then why be a member (as I believe Franklin is)? Why associate with such a poorly run group?
Nope, you don't get it. Franklin has never said he didn't LIKE the AMA, he simply provided facts that support they are not optimally up to the tasks that they espouse to their membership and the Feds.
I don't exactly know what he expected results-wise from the AMA and the FAA. But I can also say the same for many modelers out there. AMA was/is doing the best they can, with the confines of the law. As an aside, the biggest mistake I believe they made was forming the model aircraft PAC too late. But everything else they've done over the years has been geared towards the preservation of the hobby.
If someone had evidence that your club President was stealing money from the club, would you want them to remain silent because it might be detrimental to the club if they exposed the theft?
No, of course not. The difference is that it should be brought up to the president of the club. If there is no satisfaction there then bring it to the membership. If they then choose not to pursue it then its OVER. One can then choose to be associated with that organization or not. But to constantly argue the same points over and over, and then to bring up questionable accusations for what solely appears to be an effort to further denigrate an organization, is just petty and selfish.
Astro
03-23-2020, 05:18 AM
#132
Originally Posted by R_Strowe
You may think so,
Originally Posted by R_Strowe
My issue is whether it's mature or prudent to continue to berate and belittle the only (currently)organization fighting for our hobby, however flawed.
Originally Posted by R_Strowe
Did your mother never teach you "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all?"
Originally Posted by R_Strowe
I am simply tired of the continual haranging
Originally Posted by R_Strowe
it is off-putting to continually degrade this organization
Originally Posted by R_Strowe
I don't exactly know what he expected results-wise from the AMA
Originally Posted by R_Strowe
No, of course not. The difference is that it should be brought up to the president of the club. If there is no satisfaction there then bring it to the membership.
Regards,
Astro
03-23-2020, 08:32 AM
#133
Please see the following FAQ's on issues related to sanctions, membership renewals etc in place due to the COVID-19 situation and the emergency declaration in Indiana that affects the HQ staff.
https://contentsharing.net/actions/e...QNH_RVTZvr-MmD
https://contentsharing.net/actions/e...QNH_RVTZvr-MmD
03-23-2020, 08:39 AM
#134
I like the fact that they planned ahead. Now, if they could just get the rest of the operations to be as efficient as moving the staff from the office to home based , much would be better
03-23-2020, 10:01 AM
#135
GOTTA LOVE IT!!!!!
Word just came down that I'll be off work for at least two weeks starting Wednesday. I've been told the wife wants me to spend that time cleaning the areas in the house that are filled with parts and materials for boats and planes which, when translated, means GET YOUR STUFF BUILT/REPAIRED!!!!!!
I guess I'll be working on R/Cs for the next few weeks and, from the sounds of it, getting paid to do so
Now comes the question:
Do I build and set up hydroplanes or Kadets first?
Word just came down that I'll be off work for at least two weeks starting Wednesday. I've been told the wife wants me to spend that time cleaning the areas in the house that are filled with parts and materials for boats and planes which, when translated, means GET YOUR STUFF BUILT/REPAIRED!!!!!!
I guess I'll be working on R/Cs for the next few weeks and, from the sounds of it, getting paid to do so
Now comes the question:
Do I build and set up hydroplanes or Kadets first?
03-24-2020, 08:53 AM
#136
GOTTA LOVE IT!!!!!
Word just came down that I'll be off work for at least two weeks starting Wednesday. I've been told the wife wants me to spend that time cleaning the areas in the house that are filled with parts and materials for boats and planes which, when translated, means GET YOUR STUFF BUILT/REPAIRED!!!!!!
I guess I'll be working on R/Cs for the next few weeks and, from the sounds of it, getting paid to do so
Now comes the question:
Do I build and set up hydroplanes or Kadets first?
Word just came down that I'll be off work for at least two weeks starting Wednesday. I've been told the wife wants me to spend that time cleaning the areas in the house that are filled with parts and materials for boats and planes which, when translated, means GET YOUR STUFF BUILT/REPAIRED!!!!!!
I guess I'll be working on R/Cs for the next few weeks and, from the sounds of it, getting paid to do so
Now comes the question:
Do I build and set up hydroplanes or Kadets first?
I on the other hand, am racking up OT at a tremendous rate, as our main customer (Amazon) has asked us to increase capacity, which means more aircraft and more flights. Our payloads have doubled over the last 2 weeks, hell we had 40,000lbs of ALCOHOL WIPES(yeah, you read that right!) the other day.
Hope to get some stick time in in a few days, I’ve been blessed with the next 4 days off. It’s usually 12 off minimum!
R_Strowe
03-24-2020, 08:55 AM
#137
No, once again, the fact is, you cited two examples that were distinctly different; one was a call to action (theater example) and one was a moron spouting off. By ctiing two completely different examples and lumping them as the same form of speech is a perfect example of your logical fallacies.
Again, providing facts is not berating or belittling. It is disseminating facts. The AMA is also not the only organization fighting for our hobby, more of your spin. Furthermore, it is clear to me that the majority of the participants in this forum have NO CLUE about the inner workings of the AMA and despite Franklin's posts sharing the facts, they just choose to blindly defend their beloved organization and label him a hater. If this forum is not the proper place to share and discuss those facts, I do not know where it would be appropriate, it is the whole purpose of this forum!
Yes, but it did not apply to speaking the truth and discussing the sometimes uncomfortable facts. It more applied to the likes of yourself, Speedy, Mach5, propworn and the numerous ghost accounts that have been created in order to make personal attacks on Franklin, instead of discussing the issues and facts at hand.
Please go back and read the posts. Franklin discusses facts, those that don't want to face the facts are the ones that exacerbate the haranging. Again, words have meanings, and the way you are labeling things such as haranging, do NOT apply to Franklin stating the facts, they point directly at those who take those facts personally, and start calling names and labeling him a hater.
Again, words have meaning....DEGRADE would be what Franklin's detractors do to him when they call him names. If the FACTS are degrading to the AMA, that is just the plain, hard truth. Ever heard the saying, "If the shoe fits"?
If you bothered to take the time to read ALL of the threads before commenting, you will see that Franklin simply wanted to have a dialogue with the AMA about his concerns. Franklin made numerous attempts to reach the EC in order to hear them out and have a discussion, but his efforts simply went largely unacknowledged. This concerns me coming from an organization that is structured to be, "by the members, for the members", rather than a dictatorship or oligarchy.
See my post above. That is PRECISELY what Franklin did. Please refrain from shooting the messenger, whether you agree with the message or not.
Regards,
Astro
Again, providing facts is not berating or belittling. It is disseminating facts. The AMA is also not the only organization fighting for our hobby, more of your spin. Furthermore, it is clear to me that the majority of the participants in this forum have NO CLUE about the inner workings of the AMA and despite Franklin's posts sharing the facts, they just choose to blindly defend their beloved organization and label him a hater. If this forum is not the proper place to share and discuss those facts, I do not know where it would be appropriate, it is the whole purpose of this forum!
Yes, but it did not apply to speaking the truth and discussing the sometimes uncomfortable facts. It more applied to the likes of yourself, Speedy, Mach5, propworn and the numerous ghost accounts that have been created in order to make personal attacks on Franklin, instead of discussing the issues and facts at hand.
Please go back and read the posts. Franklin discusses facts, those that don't want to face the facts are the ones that exacerbate the haranging. Again, words have meanings, and the way you are labeling things such as haranging, do NOT apply to Franklin stating the facts, they point directly at those who take those facts personally, and start calling names and labeling him a hater.
Again, words have meaning....DEGRADE would be what Franklin's detractors do to him when they call him names. If the FACTS are degrading to the AMA, that is just the plain, hard truth. Ever heard the saying, "If the shoe fits"?
If you bothered to take the time to read ALL of the threads before commenting, you will see that Franklin simply wanted to have a dialogue with the AMA about his concerns. Franklin made numerous attempts to reach the EC in order to hear them out and have a discussion, but his efforts simply went largely unacknowledged. This concerns me coming from an organization that is structured to be, "by the members, for the members", rather than a dictatorship or oligarchy.
See my post above. That is PRECISELY what Franklin did. Please refrain from shooting the messenger, whether you agree with the message or not.
Regards,
Astro
Talk about cherry picking....
R_Strowe
03-24-2020, 12:09 PM
#138
Here is your full response on the last point:
"No, of course not. The difference is that it should be brought up to the president of the club. If there is no satisfaction there then bring it to the membership. If they then choose not to pursue it then its OVER. One can then choose to be associated with that organization or not. But to constantly argue the same points over and over, and then to bring up questionable accusations for what solely appears to be an effort to further denigrate an organization, is just petty and selfish."
It doesn't change anything, other than that it is your opinion that Franklin should just shut up. Still doesn't make your opinion any, "righter".
Astro
03-24-2020, 09:37 PM
#139
Cherry picking...that's funny!
Here is your full response on the last point:
"No, of course not. The difference is that it should be brought up to the president of the club. If there is no satisfaction there then bring it to the membership. If they then choose not to pursue it then its OVER. One can then choose to be associated with that organization or not. But to constantly argue the same points over and over, and then to bring up questionable accusations for what solely appears to be an effort to further denigrate an organization, is just petty and selfish."
It doesn't change anything, other than that it is your opinion that Franklin should just shut up. Still doesn't make your opinion any, "righter".
Astro
Here is your full response on the last point:
"No, of course not. The difference is that it should be brought up to the president of the club. If there is no satisfaction there then bring it to the membership. If they then choose not to pursue it then its OVER. One can then choose to be associated with that organization or not. But to constantly argue the same points over and over, and then to bring up questionable accusations for what solely appears to be an effort to further denigrate an organization, is just petty and selfish."
It doesn't change anything, other than that it is your opinion that Franklin should just shut up. Still doesn't make your opinion any, "righter".
Astro
No where in my reply did I state that Franklin should not bring things up. The issue is the constant repeating of the same thing over and over again, with what appears to many as simple, annoying harping, and a wish for AMA to die. That is how many of us see it.
Tell you what: how about you tell me about some thing or organization you care about. Then I’ll go ahead and continually pick it apart ad nauseum. You will be welcome to post alternative explanations for the negative publicity that is being presented. I’ll ignore that and continue to post the same drivel, over and over again. OK?
Think about that.
R_Strowe
03-25-2020, 04:16 AM
#140
Thread Starter
Personal attack. I guess that's ok, but saying anything negative about AMA is not?
"... what appears to many ..." is nothing more than opinion. No different than "... what appears to many ..." as an organization out of touch with it's members, continuing to pursue a failed strategy, and continuing to fight for AMA and not the hobby as a whole (in contrast with ARRL, AOPA, NRA, and other similar groups that fight for ALL participants, not just their members) - among other issues. Just because SOME think that what's good for AMA is automatically good for the hobby does not make it true.
Thus why is your "many" collective opinion carry any more weight than the other "many" collective opinion? Answer: It doesn't
Knock yourself out. Use NRA. But get in line, it happens all the time already, by those with a lot more power to actually put action behind their rhetoric.
Or, PLEASE cite your personal rule that we should all live by - so we're aligned with your view of what is and isn't allowed in life - one which defines for all of us what can be what can be said AMA, how often, by whom, etc.
Thus why is your "many" collective opinion carry any more weight than the other "many" collective opinion? Answer: It doesn't
Tell you what: how about you tell me about some thing or organization you care about. Then I’ll go ahead and continually pick it apart ad nauseum. You will be welcome to post alternative explanations for the negative publicity that is being presented. I’ll ignore that and continue to post the same drivel, over and over again. OK?
Or, PLEASE cite your personal rule that we should all live by - so we're aligned with your view of what is and isn't allowed in life - one which defines for all of us what can be what can be said AMA, how often, by whom, etc.
Last edited by franklin_m; 03-25-2020 at 05:59 AM.
03-25-2020, 05:21 AM
#141
I'll ignore your personal jab. (It is clear that you folks simply CANNOT post without slinging mud. You claim you are tired of Franklin's repeating of the facts, well, MOST would say that they are tired of your repeated personal attacks on others. I personally would much rather read the same fact over and over again, than to constantly read personal attacks over and over again. At least facts have merit, sticks and stones....well, you know the rest.....)
You think he should bring it up and then shut up. That is how your type try and shut down opposing opinions. Franklin does not repeat himself just to hear himself type. He only repeats himself when the facts he posts are dismissed or deflected with weak arguments from the other side. Your constant barrage of logical fallacies is what gets old
More logical fallacies......but........OK.
Why do you think I am here, in this forum? THIS IS MY HOBBY. It has been the main focus of my discretionary time and money for the majority of my life. I am passionate about the AMA! I've said it here literally HUNDREDS of times before, but you and your minions choose to call me hater and troll and many, many other things.
So go ahead, pick apart the AMA.....GO..........
OR.........
CONSIDER that in order for an organization (ANY organization, individual, group, etc.) to get better, they must acknowledge their shortcomings and THEN take action to overcome those shortcomings. More good will come out of pointing out the shortcomings (Franklin) than to sling mud and attack the messenger (Speedy, Mach5, Propworn, yourself...)
Astro
Originally Posted by R_Strowe
Tell you what: how about you tell me about some thing or organization you care about. Then I’ll go ahead and continually pick it apart ad nauseum. You will be welcome to post alternative explanations for the negative publicity that is being presented. I’ll ignore that and continue to post the same drivel, over and over again. OK?
Why do you think I am here, in this forum? THIS IS MY HOBBY. It has been the main focus of my discretionary time and money for the majority of my life. I am passionate about the AMA! I've said it here literally HUNDREDS of times before, but you and your minions choose to call me hater and troll and many, many other things.
So go ahead, pick apart the AMA.....GO..........
OR.........
CONSIDER that in order for an organization (ANY organization, individual, group, etc.) to get better, they must acknowledge their shortcomings and THEN take action to overcome those shortcomings. More good will come out of pointing out the shortcomings (Franklin) than to sling mud and attack the messenger (Speedy, Mach5, Propworn, yourself...)
Astro
04-03-2020, 04:47 PM
#143
04-03-2020, 06:20 PM
#145
Any and all events in my area have been canceled starting 3 weeks ago. I last went to the flying field 2 weeks ago and flew with 3 other guys but we kept our distance. I am more at risk going to work. We have a staff of approximately 30 guys with 2 restrooms and one break room. We have been staggering breaks and wiping things down between groups of 5 in the break room. Hand sanitizer is now a daily item in my lunch bag.
To the best of my knowledge the last large R/C events that went forward in spite of Corvid was weeks ago and those were Florida Jets and the Lebanon Pa. swap meet.
To the best of my knowledge the last large R/C events that went forward in spite of Corvid was weeks ago and those were Florida Jets and the Lebanon Pa. swap meet.
04-04-2020, 03:56 AM
#147
I see the news is reporting that the CDC now says people should be wearing masks in public , a reversal of their previous advice claiming the masks were unneeded .
Leaves me to wonder , DOES the CDC know that right now there are more "Tucker Torpedo" cars on the market than there are N95 masks ????
Leaves me to wonder , DOES the CDC know that right now there are more "Tucker Torpedo" cars on the market than there are N95 masks ????
04-04-2020, 06:23 AM
#148
I see the news is reporting that the CDC now says people should be wearing masks in public , a reversal of their previous advice claiming the masks were unneeded .
Leaves me to wonder , DOES the CDC know that right now there are more "Tucker Torpedo" cars on the market than there are N95 masks ????
Leaves me to wonder , DOES the CDC know that right now there are more "Tucker Torpedo" cars on the market than there are N95 masks ????Actually a Tucker Torpedo could help one fight this virus, make sure that you are no closer that the length of your Tucker Torpedo to another person!
04-04-2020, 06:28 AM
#149
While watching the news last night and seeing the recommendation for wearing a mask, I don't recall any specific mask being required. As I understood the meaning, any cloth mask will reduce the odds of someone who is a non symptomatic carrier to spread the virus to others.
04-04-2020, 08:13 AM
#150
Speed , even if we ain't talkin the coveted N95 , HAVE you tried to get even the non medical "construction grade" paper masks lately ? I have , and they don't exist . I am not and will not be putting some random hunk of cloth over my face to be breathing in all the nasty things that will lurk in some home made not disposable mask . Ain't a cowboy , ain't gonna be tying a bandana over my face like the wild west , and when my small stash of real masks runs out I guess it'll come down to ;"Wherever I be , may my virus run free"
You'd best hope I'm not facing Oregon the next time I sneeze
