R_Strowe

Exactly correct.

Echo,

The reason why the gun laws in Chicago don't work is because it's a short drive to Indiana, which has much more lax gun laws. In other words, people find a way around the laws ALL THE TIME! And all the laws do is punish those who DO follow the laws.

As jcmors said, around such events as the Superbowl, World Series, etc, there should be NO DRONES, regardless of whether they have RID or not.

And again, this new set of regulations punishes the average, law-abiding hobbyist. Because unless the NPRM is modified to allow for a retrofit option, the reg is going to cost the hobbyist 100's of millions of dollars in instantly obsoleted equipment. For me personally the cost tallies up to over $15,000. If they stole that from me, in a court of law that would be grand theft.

They need to allow for a viable retrofit RID system, and if they don't this whole thing will not only end up in the courts, but end up as a enormous failure.

R_Strowe

ECHO24

Good luck.

*** Your gun analogies don't hold water - There is no "hobby" gun problem.

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

so, yall are preemptively ruling out the coverage folks for large well attended sporting events and such being able to use drones for some of their footage acquisition?

ECHO24

I think we're only talking about rogue drones, not official use.

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Sure the gun analogy works:

Guns pose a safety risk to the public so we need more regulations.

Drones pose a safety risk to the public so we need more regulations.

I also think that being a gang member can loosely fit the definition of a hobby but accept that you may not. A lifestyle may better describe being a gang member but I know some R/C enthusiasts where the term lifestyle would apply as well.


BTW, the flying this evening was amazing, field was freshly mowed, 68 degrees and the airplane is flying better then ever.

ECHO24

Gang members now? To get us out of the weeds, here's the video of the drone that got within spitting distance of the
Blue Angels in Detroit on Tuesday - on the same day as AMA's "Let's Build Multirotors" live YouTube event! That is
some kind of coincidence!

The hobby already had few friends left as a result of drones and FPV. This will end that. Drones have interfered with the
Blue Angels at least twice before. Third time's a charm:

ira d

I agree

ECHO24

" ... around such events as the Superbowl, World Series, etc, there should be NO DRONES."

It is nearly impossible to find the operator of a drone. What do you propose?

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Yet apparently they were able to track up to 75 drones without RID. None of them hostiles.

jcmors

There is such a thing as a "gun hobby". There is a gun and shooting club right next to the AMA flying field I go to. They practice target shooting and there are members that collect antique firearms as well and enjoy restoring them, so yes, hobby. By and large I don't think the gun club members are representative of the gun problems we have in this country with mass shootings and the like any more than traditional model aircraft enthusiasts are the problem that the federal government needs to resolve with drones.

ECHO24

The problem is finding the operator. That's 150+ drones at just the last two Super Bowls, all getting in he way of detecting
any real potential threat and all very costly. How much should be spent on these efforts before saying enough's enough?

ECHO24

Wrong. 99.99% of nuisance drones are hobbyists. Can you can quote the percentage of hobby gun users committing crimes?
I said we don't have a hobby gun problem not that there wasn't a gun hobby.

R_Strowe

A: Look for the person holding a little box with 2 sticks sticking out of it.

B: Use a directional antenna to try to home in on the operator.

C: Watch where the drone lands. Arrest the individual who picks it up.

D: Implement RID. Include a retrofit-type system for law-abiding, traditional modelers, so they may keep and operate their investments.

Any of the above ideas would work.

And I notice that although you keep banging the drum of ‘this is all mandated/Congress called for this’, two points:

1-Congress never said no retrofit option, only that all sUAS need to comply with RID.

2-You NEVER address the retrofit issue. Why not?

R_Strowe

jcmors

ECHO, I understand what you are trying to say, I really do however, the point here is that even when RID becomes the law of the land, if there are multiple drones approaching and flying around the Super Bowl, are you saying that the authorities should ignore those that have RID and concentrate on the ones that don't as only the ones without RID would be a real threat? If so, I wouldn't agree with that. ANY drone, flying over the super bowl should be treated as a potential threat. What prevents a terrorist or someone with intent to do harm from using a legitimate RID equipped drone to do so? Purchased by them, stolen from someones garage, or otherwise? I would think that every drone flying towards or around some event like the super bowl would need to be equally treated as a threat regardless.

jcmors

Fair enough.

Nuisance drones may well belong to hobbyists but not the model aircraft hobby... perhaps the photography hobby. The idiots that fly drones in places where they shouldn't are not 99.9 % model aircraft hobbyists. In my opinion many simply bought a ready to fly camera drone at Best Buy or online somewhere because they thought they were cool. They aren't interested in model aircraft, in learning what makes them fly, in any of the things that model aircraft hobbyists enjoy about our hobby.

init4fun

99% huh ? , , , got a link to any real proof of this 99% figure , or is this just something you pulled out of your backside for the sake of conversation ????

And to jcmors , HELL YES !!!! I've been saying for years that it's not model aircraft hobbyists that are "the problem" , it's the God Damned flying camera that is ! You hit the nail squarely on the head with that one

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Will RID transmit the location of the operator? To have any effectiveness it would need to otherwise the ID of the perp becomes reactionary.

I’m of the opinion that RID should be built into the video processor, no video no RID. I know that won’t happen so next best thing is to have an add on RID module. When registering with the FAA you get a PIN, use that PIN to create an account on an FAA portal. Flash the RID module through the portal. The module has firmware that allows only one flash. Then the FAA starts sending NOTAMs directly to regestered users.

ECHO24

That I agree with. It goes back to AMA courting dones and FPV and being on board with the definition of "model aircraft"
to include all UAS. AMA should have put as much distance between model aircraft and drones/FPV as possible. If so,
there might have been a fighting chance to keep at least some of the hobby unregulated. That ship has sailed.

ini4fun: A quick search, NYPD Deputy Commissioner of Intelligence and Counterterrorism John Miller

"But the drone issue is moving quickly. In 2014, we had 82 drone incidents in New York City. In 2016,
we had 416. And in 2018, up until September, we had 1,649 drone incidents.

Most of these incidents are just hobbyists playing with drones, and they fall out of the sky, and
sometimes they land in sensitive places."

And to the point, "it is difficult enough for law enforcement agencies to protect against drone attacks at
large public events. It becomes more difficult if the skies are cluttered with “innocent” drones being flown
by hobbyists. If police can reduce the large numbers of unauthorized drones at public events, it will help
them to focus on the small number of drones that may be a threat."

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Major misrepresentation in some comments here. Namely " They fall out of the sky " " if the skies are cluttered ". The context makes those two comments seem the norm which they are not. This is exactly what I mean my making the uninformed masses feel safe.

init4fun

Echo I agree with 99% of this , for real , my only hope would be that as to the ship sailing , never say never , perhaps as jcmors said earlier with some proper representation, and your well established distance between LOS and FPV , a carve out could be established for traditional model aviation . In my not so humble opinion , To win this the AMA needs to be rid of the people who mismanaged the FAA dealings , to be replaced with people who will approach the FAA as a cooperative party rather than one that would play games with the law attempting to force membership , completely renounce the flying camera in all of it's incarnations , and then things may look better for us .

The realist in me , meanwhile , has hung on to a pretty extensive Lionel train set and one kinda spiffy control line plane , just in case they DO end up prying my TX from my hands .....

jcmors

Absolutely, while being realistic, I don't expect the government to be reasonable, especially given the money lining the pockets of our government representatives by lobbyists that would like to see the model aircraft hobby disappear completely, I don't intend to give up on contacting representatives and doing all I can to try to make a difference. I think that we, as hobbyists, are actually a reasonable bunch. I think most of us can see the reason for some form of RID and would support a reasonable implementation of it. That is our only hope, I believe. I wish I had some way of suggesting how the model aircraft community, AMA members or otherwise, could influence public opinion and show that we truly are not the problem and that the hobby we practice is completely different from the kinds of idiotic antics performed by people using drones in such a way as to be a real menace and danger to society. I don't have any idea how we could manage that. I also, realistically, don't see AMA leadership changing though I agree with your assessment that it needs to happen if we were to be successful. Thoughts anyone?

fliers1

You asked for it, so here's a plan.
In short
1.Line up an official or VIP
2.Winds can be up to 20mph
3.I have trainers ready to go
4.5 minute ground school
5.Hand the tx to the government official and/or any VIP
6.Have her or him fly for 30 minute straight
7. Get them hooked or see why it's our passion
8. If they don't get in, maybe their kids or grand kids will
All I need is just one person to teach this method. Anyone? Anyone?
This I can guarantee will work, that is if we work together on this.

Please, I'm tired of arm chair experts assuring me that it won't work.
I've been doing this successfully for almost 50 years, albeit on a local basis.
For almost 20 years AMA has been fully aware of how well this works, but keep in mind, this is the AMA.
Cynics, skeptics and pessimist - this is my plan - what's yours?

Hydro Junkie

My only issue is getting past step 1. IF(and that is a very large IF) you can get someone with any clout to agree AND SHOW UP, the rest is very doable. It's just getting past step one that will be the biggest problem

jcmors

Good plan as far as getting some government officials to see why we are interested in the hobby. As Hydro says, IF you can get a government official to give a damn enough about "we the people" to even want to check us out. What we need however is a campaign of some sort, publicity, something that explains to the public at large that there is a huge difference between RC model aircraft hobbyists and idiots who fly camera drones in unsafe ways and in unsafe areas.

I have no doubt that your methods of training work. It sounds great. Maybe show some of the people in the public what we do so they can see the difference.

My other thought, as far as government officials go, would be that one may very well say, hey this is great and enjoyable, so this is what these hobbyists are trying to protect but... on the other hand I have the Jeff Bezos foundation offering to slip large amounts of cash in my pocket... hmmmm... do what is good for the people or stuff cash in my pockets... let me see here.... I think I know the choice most politicians would make.

fliers1

The longest journal starts with the first step. AMA has already done demos with government officials in the past. Somebody may know somebody who knows somebody related or a neighbor of a local government official and possibly go from there.
Then there are VIPs, sports figures, anyone with a connection to somebody in the government or whatever. Just can't say, it can't be done and forget about it. Never say never. Even Jeff Bezos if given the chance say. "Hey, this is a great hobby" after flying an RC airplane for the first time. What's the alternative? We have to start somewhere. I've gotten people into the hobby who was 100% certain that they had no interest and would never fly an RC airplane.