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Questions for AMA Membership Mtg - 25 July

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Questions for AMA Membership Mtg - 25 July

Old 07-23-2020, 06:34 AM
  #76  
Hydro Junkie
 
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Astro, I think we're seeing a case of "do as I say and not as I do", mostly because we don't have the level of "greatness" needed to be taken seriously
Old 07-23-2020, 06:39 AM
  #77  
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Then again, he will probably be leaving in the not too distant future for that "holy shrine" of the competing royalty and probably break a few laws in the process
Old 07-23-2020, 01:50 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
Franklin says something you don’t like about a third party who is not even present in this thread, so you justify a similar attack on Hydro? What kind of logic is that?

Astro

RCU rules state that one does not have to be a participant in any particular thread but simply be a member for disparaging comments to be a violation. Do you know for a FACT that Richard Hanson is not an RCU member? Franklin has also referred to AMA employees as " incompetent ". Do you know for a FACT that there are no AMA employees that are RCU members?
Old 07-23-2020, 01:53 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Then again, he will probably be leaving in the not too distant future for that "holy shrine" of the competing royalty and probably break a few laws in the process
You seem quite obsessed about my whopping 9 minutes of flying over 400' during a 2 day pattern contest.
Old 07-23-2020, 02:23 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
You seem quite obsessed about my whopping 9 minutes of flying over 400' during a 2 day pattern contest.
And there we have it folks, an admission of guilt. He admits to INTENTIONALLY breaking the law and it seems is proud of it. Competition elitism at it's finest
Old 07-23-2020, 02:39 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
And there we have it folks, an admission of guilt. He admits to INTENTIONALLY breaking the law and it seems is proud of it. Competition elitism at it's finest

I have nothing to hide, I've posted my name in these forums, I've posted my AMA number in these forums. I gladly accept responsibility for everything and anything I have said. Unlike others who post without identifying themselves. IMO anyone man who makes accusations but aren't willing to put their name on those accusations isn't much of a man.

I'm not holding my breath while waiting for the black Suburban to come take me to jail LOL.
Old 07-23-2020, 07:03 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
RCU rules state that one does not have to be a participant in any particular thread but simply be a member for disparaging comments to be a violation. Do you know for a FACT that Richard Hanson is not an RCU member? Franklin has also referred to AMA employees as " incompetent ". Do you know for a FACT that there are no AMA employees that are RCU members?
And once again, you are either avoiding the point or completely aloof to it. Doesn’t surprise me a bit.

Astro
Old 07-23-2020, 07:27 PM
  #83  
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And once again you fail to answer questions directed at you while criticizing people for the same exact thing. I had you figured out the moment you were corrected about your claim that Mach5 was a sock account that I created and you couldn't even manage a " I stand corrected ". Another who throws accusations around but lacks the balls to put their name on the line. At least I can respect Franklin for identifying himself and take any heat that his comments bring.
Old 07-23-2020, 07:41 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Unlike others who post without identifying themselves. IMO anyone man who makes accusations but aren't willing to put their name on those accusations isn't much of a man
Many on RCU know who I am and I am generally not opposed to people knowing who I am. I’m not sure what accusations I have made that require my “name be put on them”, but I do know that you have looked up others’ personal information, and have threatened that you would, “beat me up” if we were to meet face to face. Since the internet is a big place with folks that get riled up by simple words and opinions and are willing to get physical because of them, I think it makes good sense to keep those details private. I don’t think it makes me any less of a man as you say, it just makes it less likely to be stalked and attacked by unstable folks on the interweb.

Astro
Old 07-24-2020, 04:11 AM
  #85  
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LOL, more unfounded accusations. I have not looked up anyone's personal information nor have I threatened to harm you. I simply asked if this was your normal communication tone with people face to face and if so how do you avoid not getting knocked on your ass from time to time. Nothing in that statement implies that I am threatening you. For somone so big on facts, you seem to be lacking them quite often.
Old 07-24-2020, 02:52 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
LOL, more unfounded accusations. I have not looked up anyone's personal information nor have I threatened to harm you. I simply asked if this was your normal communication tone with people face to face and if so how do you avoid not getting knocked on your ass from time to time. Nothing in that statement implies that I am threatening you. For somone so big on facts, you seem to be lacking them quite often.
once again, you are just spouting off with whatever suits your position of the day.

On at least two occasions you have brought up physical violence against me And you have dug up personal info on other members here who refuse to speak your language and have actually posted pictures of them. NOT COOL, and very much speaks to your character and your incessant need to be noticed, coddled and praised as “the man”. Sad little man.....

Astro
Old 07-24-2020, 04:15 PM
  #87  
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That last sentence says it all right there. I'm going to venture a guess that you would never make that same remark to anyone face to face. I would tend to think that if you were in the habit of speaking to people in such a manner that the likelihood of you having to pick yourself up off the ground would be fairly high. Not once did I claim that I would be the one doing the deed. I sincerely apologize if my comments made you frightened in any way, not my intent. Yes I would agree that posting that picture was in poor taste, it however 1. Turned out to not be Hydro. 2. Was taken off Facebook which as you stated just a day or two ago Internet forums are open territory. Since your so fond of facts, after a failed attempt to delete that picture myself I did ask in forum for moderation to do it for me. So, it does seem I am big enough to admit when I have made a mistake, let's see if you can step up as well.
Old 07-24-2020, 08:02 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
I have not looked up anyone's personal information nor have I threatened to harm you.
So you really DID look up (and publicly post) the personal information of another member here because you did not like the words he used and his opinion. THAT speaks volumes about you and your integrity, so do not question mine.

And NOW you remember the physical threats you made to me, but they are okay because you weren’t going to carry them out personally? LOL. You were going to have someone else do it? That makes it okay in your mind? LOL

I could give two shakes about you or your threats. I am not afraid. Again, I was just reminding you and the others here about who you are when you question MY integrity.

You seem to take offense at my small little man comment, but your actions justify it. Don’t blame the messenger. Sometimes the truth hurts!

Astro


Old 07-24-2020, 08:23 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Not once did I claim that I would be the one doing the deed. I sincerely apologize if my comments made you frightened in any way, not my intent.
I am curious. When you threaten to drop someone to the ground, what IS the intent?

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
Yes I would agree that posting that picture was in poor taste
Not only in poor taste, it speaks volumes that you would go to such lengths over an internet discussion.

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
So, it does seem I am big enough to admit when I have made a mistake,
The question was never if you can apologize, it was that you were capable of internet stalking and making threats, remember? You said you had done neither, which were both outright lies. I have zero respect for liars and folks with no integrity. I owe you nothing....
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
let's see if you can step up as well.
yes, let’s. When I make a “mistake” (internet stalking and threats are not things I consider “mistakes”) I will certainly own up to it.

Astro
Old 07-25-2020, 02:13 AM
  #90  
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Okay guys, I've spent the past 36 hours out of this forum mulling over a question that I've been pondering for several months that I haven't been able to answer. Therefore, I'm going to put this question out to Franklin, Init4fun and Astrohog. To make this a bit more "interesting", I'll also let R_Strowe and Dick Tristao chime in, if they wish.
Anyway, my question is simply this:
Why are we trying to convince others that the AMA is a corrupt money pit that needs to be reworked from the top down when 90% of the members don't care and only 10% even bothered to vote in the last officer election? What have our efforts gotten us? WE get put down, treated like we are dirt by the AMA faithful and their whipping boy from the MAAC. Franklin, specifically, has been reported on several occasions (according to what's been claimed in the various threads anyway) with calls for him to be banned. As it has already been said, this site and, more specifically, these threads are probably not read by anyone that's going to do anything but laugh at the back and forth bickering and name calling so, again, I ask WHAT'S THE POINT? As far as many are concerned, our hobby is going to die anyway so...............................

Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 07-25-2020 at 02:16 AM.
Old 07-25-2020, 04:39 AM
  #91  
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Hydro,

The reason why I am here is to help inform the uninformed. I live my life based on facts, not feel-good rhetoric.

My life experience has taught me that the disengaged 90% of the AMA as witnessed by local club participation and elections and the , “I don’t care, just give me insurance so I can fly” folks WILL CARE when something changes. This phenomenon is no different in real life, people simply don’t give a hoot until it is too late.

Originally, my intent was to stimulate conversations about these impending changes in order to proactively and collectively work for the best possible outcome for modeling.

Never in a million years did I anticipate such staunch ignorance, arrogance and cronyism as we have seen on these threads in the AMA forum.

I believe in the truth and that everybody has the right to the truth. Only then can good decisions be made, either by individuals or groups. If the truth is being obscured, I will fight for it to be told every single time, even if folks choose to try and discourage me with their name-calling and threats. I’ve learned that those are just tactics used by those who have no real substance to justify their positions. If they had substance, they would not need to resort to such intimidating tactics.

As I have stated numerous times, I can handle the name-calling and threats, they do not bother me nearly as much as the ignorance that surrounds us.

Astro
Old 07-25-2020, 04:52 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Okay guys, I've spent the past 36 hours out of this forum mulling over a question that I've been pondering for several months that I haven't been able to answer. Therefore, I'm going to put this question out to Franklin, Init4fun and Astrohog. To make this a bit more "interesting", I'll also let R_Strowe and Dick Tristao chime in, if they wish.
Anyway, my question is simply this:
Why are we trying to convince others that the AMA is a corrupt money pit that needs to be reworked from the top down when 90% of the members don't care and only 10% even bothered to vote in the last officer election? What have our efforts gotten us? WE get put down, treated like we are dirt by the AMA faithful and their whipping boy from the MAAC. Franklin, specifically, has been reported on several occasions (according to what's been claimed in the various threads anyway) with calls for him to be banned. As it has already been said, this site and, more specifically, these threads are probably not read by anyone that's going to do anything but laugh at the back and forth bickering and name calling so, again, I ask WHAT'S THE POINT? As far as many are concerned, our hobby is going to die anyway so...............................
Hydro,

Excellent question. I believe that trying to convince both AMA as well as the 90%+ of the membership is a fool’s errand because they simply don’t care. All they want to do is send in their check every spring and go and fly. They also don’t understand the ‘freight train’ that is about to hit the hobby. It is like one’s elected representatives; they expect them to do what they were elected to do. Some of us know that this rarely happens. And apparently even fewer of us understand that just fighting for something is no guarantee of that something actually coming to fruition.

Regarding our efforts, again my belief is that they are warranted, but ultimately will be unsuccessful (just as AMA’s have), not through any fault of our own, but because we no longer have a government “Of the People, By the People and For the People”. And this relates directly to what I said above; it is not right or fair to condemn an organization, especially in this case, when the deck is so strongly stacked against them. Do we feel the same way about EAA? They’ve had the same level of success in this as AMA after all.

Regarding the financial issues faced by AMA; although a misplaced effort by them, I believe the whole debacle over the original 336/CBO membership issue was really one of survival. Sure, they could cancel the magazine, sell off the NAC, and trim salaries to $0. I’ve seen and worked for airlines who have done essentially this ‘shrink to profitability’ model. And it never works. They either end up spending even larger sums to recover, or go bankrupt and set themselves up for purchase. Who’s going to purchase a tiny non-profit?

And as I’ve said, I agree the AMA does have financial issues. Everybody does. My issue re:Franklin is the constant haranguing, the continued negative tone. If I was on the EC and had a member continually using such a negative and disparaging tone I’d tell him to eff off as well. The old saying ‘you get more bees with honey than vinegar’ definitely applies here. And all his tone does is make him come across as the grumpy old man, you will do it my way or else. It’s his breath to waste, but why waste it for what is obviously no ROI?

Is the hobby dying? It certainly seems so. But doesn’t it make more sense to pull together as one, provide that united front and at try to make the changes we mostly all agree will be needed regarding this NPRM. Only afterwards I believe should we take on AMA’s internal issues. I’m sorry but right now they are NOT the most pressing matter. The hobby is. If one is so disappointed with AMA then quit AMA, leave the hobby and do something else. Leave the fight to save the hobby for those of us who think it’s more important to save the hobby first than fix the AMA. RIGHT NOW!

And one last thought and I’ll stop. I am sure that the FAA as well as industry groups lurk these boards. And I guarantee that, although a small group, they see they negativity and infighting, and are happy to exploit it against the hobby. As a Union-represented airline pilot, we are always reminded, especially during contract negotiations, to be unified, because the company is always watching, and will document and exploit any and all deviations from the norm.

R_Strowe

Last edited by R_Strowe; 07-25-2020 at 05:03 AM.
Old 07-25-2020, 05:37 AM
  #93  
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I don't think I could have said anything better than what Astro and R Strowe have said , It'd sure be great to see a more engaged membership but at this point it's only a matter of time and how fast the EC can spend the AMA into the ground before it's gone . Many kudos to Franklin for doing the research to point out the problem areas , but without many members willing to stand up (by doing nothing more than becoming involved enough to make educated choices as to who runs the organization by the simple act of voting) it truly is an exercise in futility in my opinion . And I guess publicly recognizing it means we're at least honest enough with ourselves to speak out somewhere as to what we see coming , and it's not like the AMA has an open forum such as this to post the observations made in Franklin's posts . As to the hobby in general I've said this before , times change , hobbies come and go , my often mentioned parallel between what's happening in our hobby now as a comparison to what happened to the likes of Dynaco and Heathkit and the whole "build it yourself" electronics hobby a few decades ago comes to mind here , I truly believe both aviation and the remote controlling of mechanical things have simply become too commonplace in today's world to engender any kind of passion for either in the general population . Once the drone fad has died off , my biggest immediate concern would be at what point of hobby non participation will it become no longer profitable for the hobby's manufacturers to continue producing the hardware required to equip an RC plane ?

Sorry for the downer post , but you asked , and the above is what I (sadly) believe ......
Old 07-25-2020, 07:31 AM
  #94  
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Let me bounce around a bit, first respond to the “tone” issue, yet again. I first reached out to the EC on an issue in the period 2005/2006, doing so exactly as some here say I should. Did not even get the professional courtesy of a response - from even one member of the EC. I’ve checked my sent folders and I’ve reached out to them many more times since then, also with the same “tone” that some say I should, unfortunately similar results. So I don’t think it’s about tone. I think it’s the unwashed masses thing.

To their financial issues. I am baffled why some in these forums are so willing to forgive what is, but any measure, a monumental misallocation of resources in pursuit of a failed strategy and lack of vision (except for Hanson’s vision that is). The “we know they have problems...” response. Ok. But that’s been the refrain for years now, and each and every time there’s an emotional appeal to give them a break until past the _______ crisis (fill in blank). But that reckoning never comes.

To the why bother. I guess I’m an optimist, for I can see where AMA could have big role moving forward, but when Hanson’s vision is the only one ever considered, time is running out. It’s long past time for the tired and set in their thinking EC to go bye bye. Too old. Too narrow minded. Too focused on what used to be or “the way we’ve always done it,” and most certainly NOT at all agile in their organizational strategy thinking. I believe their is still time to do it, but the longer they wait the more dramatic the changes necessary (fiscal and thinking) will be needed. But step one is cleaning house. Step two is EARNING credibility with other aviation stakeholders - heck even DJI can quote data in manner consistent with other aviation stakeholders. By contrast, AMA just says they’re safe. And when asked why, it’s little more than “Because we say so.” What others want to see is some proof in familiar terms (not lagging indicators like insurance claims) which I’ve long advocated. Fast forward to recently in public meeting with Feds and other aviation stakeholders, and DJI can quote such numbers. In stark contrast AMA cannot. AMA had the chance to be ready for that day, but those "pretty smart guys" decided against it. That is lack of vision and "the way we've always done it" on full and open display. The problem is, it'll be members of the hobby that suffer.

As to the ban on RCG at the behest of some in these forums. Actuallly, it’s nothing more than proof of a cesspool of cancel culture in the hobby. Anyone who dares to question, is put on a “double secret probation” of sorts. Some undefined, arbitrary, never articulated limit on what one can say, how often they can say it, even what “tone” is allowed or not. And meanwhile the double standard is on open display. But again, it’s about silencing things some don’t want to hear - but that doesn’t mean it goes away.

So I’ll keep trying. If for no other reason that the ultimate vindication of eventually being proven substantially correct. For the “give AMA a break they’re the only....” group and general apathy from many members will seal the fate. As everyone is sitting around after, I’m confident someone will say “We should have listened”.

Last edited by franklin_m; 07-25-2020 at 07:47 AM.
Old 07-25-2020, 12:10 PM
  #95  
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Gentlemen, I would like to thank you all for your time spent responding to my last post. I was not surprised that your responses all generally fell into my way of thinking on this subject and the issues we face to keep this hobby viable.
That said, when I picked the people I directed the question to, asking Franklin was an obvious choice as he's kind of driven these threads for several years. He takes the time to do his research before posting and, besides being a fellow former member of the Naval Aviation community, has more than earned my respect.
I added Mr Strowe due to his being an active commercial pilot. He has insight on the FAA and how the airlines look upon our hobby. He has also earned my respect through not just his posts here in the forum but also conversations we have had through PMs. We may not always agree but I know I'll not be attacked out of malice, like some will.
Astro and Init4fun, you both were asked for the same reason. We have all been attacked, ridiculed and who knows what all else by the AMA faithful. Like me, you both have taken the abusiveness and never backed down because of it. How can one not respect people that stand their ground for a cause that not only isn't popular, it potentially affects millions of people.
As for where I stand on the question:
  • I feel the FAA has been more than patient with the AMA brass playing games. The time for games has ended and the FAA has made that abundantly clear to anyone that wants to look.
  • I think we all agree, the AMA needs to clean house and get back to it's original mandate while, at the same time, move into this century. Organizations that don't adapt to changing times will all fail, sooner or later. Corporate greed, for lack of a better term is killing the AMA and, with it, the ability for the AMA to do it's job. I can compare the AMA in many ways to what's happening at Boeing. The powers that be came into the company with little to no aviation experience, put profit above quality and ended up losing major amounts of capital through cancelled or deferred orders, hundreds of planes grounded as undeliverable due to safety issues, rushing an unready plane into production to prevent a rival company from taking customers and, now with the Covid-19 pandemic, many of the undelivered planes may not be delivered as airlines don't have the passengers to sustain the aircraft fleets they already have.
  • One of you said we need to solve issues within the hobby before we focus on the AMA. I agree with the idea but the AMA faithful are going to fight anything we try to do. How many times have we been called "AMA Haters" by the almost "fanatical" AMA members here in the forum that only see their activities being negatively impacted and not the larger picture of not having the hobby at all? Maybe it's time we call for the AMA to shut down and approach Congress as modelers rather than as members of a corrupt organization that's more worried about it's own survival than it is about doing it's job and working for it's member's benefit.
I think it's time we look at the big picture and what it means to all of us:
1) We want to enjoy our hobby
2) We want to do so with as few regulations as possible
3) We want to do so in a way that is safe for everyone
So, how do we do this: Franklin has already told us, by documenting accidents and incidences and keeping the records up to date. I'm not talking a cut finger as that's overkill. Accidents should include any mishap that results in property damage(not including the aircraft in the event of a crash) or injury requiring medical attention by professional medical practitioner while incidents should be any event that requires the services of law enforcement officers. A yearly report needs to be written that can be filed with the FAA, Congress or local governments as needed, documenting how safe we hobbyists actually are. We know the AMA doesn't keep these kinds of records so it's claims of "We are safe" are totally unsupportable. In my opinion, the AMA has had the chance to make the changes needed to be viable for the long term, and didn't. It's time we hobbyists take over

Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 07-25-2020 at 12:16 PM.
Old 07-25-2020, 12:40 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Gentlemen, I would like to thank you all for your time spent responding to my last post. I was not surprised that your responses all generally fell into my way of thinking on this subject and the issues we face to keep this hobby viable.
That said, when I picked the people I directed the question to, asking Franklin was an obvious choice as he's kind of driven these threads for several years. He takes the time to do his research before posting and, besides being a fellow former member of the Naval Aviation community, has more than earned my respect.
I added Mr Strowe due to his being an active commercial pilot. He has insight on the FAA and how the airlines look upon our hobby. He has also earned my respect through not just his posts here in the forum but also conversations we have had through PMs. We may not always agree but I know I'll not be attacked out of malice, like some will.
Astro and Init4fun, you both were asked for the same reason. We have all been attacked, ridiculed and who knows what all else by the AMA faithful. Like me, you both have taken the abusiveness and never backed down because of it. How can one not respect people that stand their ground for a cause that not only isn't popular, it potentially affects millions of people.
As for where I stand on the question:
  • I feel the FAA has been more than patient with the AMA brass playing games. The time for games has ended and the FAA has made that abundantly clear to anyone that wants to look.
  • I think we all agree, the AMA needs to clean house and get back to it's original mandate while, at the same time, move into this century. Organizations that don't adapt to changing times will all fail, sooner or later. Corporate greed, for lack of a better term is killing the AMA and, with it, the ability for the AMA to do it's job. I can compare the AMA in many ways to what's happening at Boeing. The powers that be came into the company with little to no aviation experience, put profit above quality and ended up losing major amounts of capital through cancelled or deferred orders, hundreds of planes grounded as undeliverable due to safety issues, rushing an unready plane into production to prevent a rival company from taking customers and, now with the Covid-19 pandemic, many of the undelivered planes may not be delivered as airlines don't have the passengers to sustain the aircraft fleets they already have.
  • One of you said we need to solve issues within the hobby before we focus on the AMA. I agree with the idea but the AMA faithful are going to fight anything we try to do. How many times have we been called "AMA Haters" by the almost "fanatical" AMA members here in the forum that only see their activities being negatively impacted and not the larger picture of not having the hobby at all? Maybe it's time we call for the AMA to shut down and approach Congress as modelers rather than as members of a corrupt organization that's more worried about it's own survival than it is about doing it's job and working for it's member's benefit.
I think it's time we look at the big picture and what it means to all of us:
1) We want to enjoy our hobby
2) We want to do so with as few regulations as possible
3) We want to do so in a way that is safe for everyone
So, how do we do this: Franklin has already told us, by documenting accidents and incidences and keeping the records up to date. I'm not talking a cut finger as that's overkill. Accidents should include any mishap that results in property damage(not including the aircraft in the event of a crash) or injury requiring medical attention by professional medical practitioner while incidents should be any event that requires the services of law enforcement officers. A yearly report needs to be written that can be filed with the FAA, Congress or local governments as needed, documenting how safe we hobbyists actually are. We know the AMA doesn't keep these kinds of records so it's claims of "We are safe" are totally unsupportable. In my opinion, the AMA has had the chance to make the changes needed to be viable for the long term, and didn't. It's time we hobbyists take over
Hydro,
I am in absolute agreement with your entire post. This needs to be about saving our hobby. It is obvious to me that the AMA is not capable of being part of the solution. Blame it on finances, bad decisions, attempts to have the laws and regulations mandate membership, whatever, all but the very faithful can surely see that the AMA is not going to be or come up with the solution to our problems. We need to band together as hobbyists, AMA members or not, and try to formulate a strategy, something that can salvage at least some semblance of the hobby we have all enjoyed for years, decades in many cases.
Those who see the AMA as our only hope are unfortunately deluded in my humble opinion. They SHOULD have been our best avenue of advocacy for our hobby but they were not, again for whatever reason you want to believe, they just simply failed.
I'm on board with you Hydro.

Jim
Old 07-25-2020, 01:00 PM
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Blame it on Franklin, Jim. He's the one who's been driving this. I'll bet this is the first time he's been blamed for starting something that's actually a positive
Old 07-25-2020, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Blame it on Franklin, Jim. He's the one who's been driving this. I'll bet this is the first time he's been blamed for starting something that's actually a positive
I have always had respect for Franklin, here and on RCG when he was there, before he was railroaded off the forums. He does his research, he presents facts, facts gleaned from publicly available documents no less and sites his sources! It isn't as if he is pointing out subtle minor inconsistencies.... a few thousand dollar too much on office supplies or a small mistake in judgement. The issues he points out are glaring huge issues, financially in the millions of dollars and from the standpoint of ethics, huge ethical mistakes and missteps.

Old 07-25-2020, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jcmors View Post
I have always had respect for Franklin, here and on RCG when he was there, before he was railroaded off the forums. He does his research, he presents facts, facts gleaned from publicly available documents no less and sites his sources! It isn't as if he is pointing out subtle minor inconsistencies.... a few thousand dollar too much on office supplies or a small mistake in judgement. The issues he points out are glaring huge issues, financially in the millions of dollars and from the standpoint of ethics, huge ethical mistakes and missteps.
Look no further than the event today. I'll go back and review the tape to get actual numbers, but did anyone notice that of the 13 awards they announce, 11 were for current or former EC members? I've never seen that before among a leadership team, and I cannot think of anything more smacking of elitism. I think it shows just how out of touch they are with rank and file.

At around 38:45 or so the ED says "Muncie isn't the AMA, the members are the AMA." Yeah right. If that were true, they would not be using precious time during an annual membership meeting giving awards to themselves.
Old 07-25-2020, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Look no further than the event today. I'll go back and review the tape to get actual numbers, but did anyone notice that of the 13 awards they announce, 11 were for current or former EC members? I've never seen that before among a leadership team, and I cannot think of anything more smacking of elitism. I think it shows just how out of touch they are with rank and file.

At around 38:45 or so the ED says "Muncie isn't the AMA, the members are the AMA." Yeah right. If that were true, they would not be using precious time during an annual membership meeting giving awards to themselves.
Are you saying that surprises you? I don't think I've ever seen an organization that didn't give the majority of yearly awards to the "in crowd".
I was a member in an organization for over 15 years, the wife for over 10. Each year, an award was given for the member/couple of the year. During the last half of my membership, the wife and I were responsible for hiring the entertainers for our club events. This involved finding new entertainers, going to their events to see if they would be a good fit for the organization, negotiating contracts and covering all local transportation/lodging/meals. All of these costs, except the lodging costs for the entertainers, came out of my pocket. Due to our efforts, the treasury went from roughly $3500 to around $15000. During my time in that organization, I had held many offices, spent a lot of my time and money working behind the scenes, joined by the wife after we got together, and was never even nominated. The last time the award was given during our membership, it was given to a couple that did nothing except go to a monthly area meeting and take notes of the discussions held. They then came to our meetings and gave a report, slightly embellished with their own spin. They spent maybe three hours a month during the season, taking notes and transcribing them into a report while the wife and I were all over the country, spending literally thousands of dollars and the only thanks we ever got was from the entertainers themselves. Our one consolation is that many of the entertainers we dealt with are still close friends to this day so I guess it's not all bad

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