Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > AMA Discussions
Reload this Page >

2008-18: AMA spent more of "office supplies" than "lobbying?"

Notices
AMA Discussions Discuss AMA policies, decisions & any other AMA related topics here.

2008-18: AMA spent more of "office supplies" than "lobbying?"

Old 07-23-2020, 03:13 AM
  #1  
franklin_m
Thread Starter
 
franklin_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 3,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default 2008-18: AMA spent more of "office supplies" than "lobbying?"

As you consider why AMA isn't putting very many "points on the board" in their dealings w/ government, consider this. According to AMA's IRS990 filings from 2008 through 2018 (note 1), in constant 2018 dollars (note 2), AMA spent 33% more on "office supplies" than they spent on "lobbying."

2008-2018 "Office Expenses" total - $1,976,429 in CY2018 dollars
2008-2018 "Lobbying" total - $1,310,479 in CY2018 dollars
33% more = ($1,976,429 - $1,310,479) / $1,976,429

"Lobbying" totalled from statement of functional expenses, part IX, & schedule C part IIA
"Office Expenses" totalled from line statement of functional expenses, part IX, line 13


Note 1: Public documents per IRS rule. Obtained via public watchdog sites.
Note 2: 2018 dollar value = (CPI of 2018)/(CPI of year dollar spent) * dollar spent that year.
Old 07-23-2020, 07:37 AM
  #2  
FUTABA-RC
 
FUTABA-RC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 835
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

First you say "office supplies" which implies paper, staplers, etc. Then you note "office Expenses". I'll suggest that office expenses is a broad category that can include more than just paper and staplers. It could include utility costs, upkeep of the physical plant, and so on.

Looking at it that way does not fit your AMA sucks narrative very well, but until you can provide an actual breakdown of what those costs entailed your post is more or less meaningless.
Old 07-23-2020, 07:58 AM
  #3  
franklin_m
Thread Starter
 
franklin_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 3,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
First you say "office supplies" which implies paper, staplers, etc. Then you note "office Expenses". I'll suggest that office expenses is a broad category that can include more than just paper and staplers. It could include utility costs, upkeep of the physical plant, and so on.

Looking at it that way does not fit your AMA sucks narrative very well, but until you can provide an actual breakdown of what those costs entailed your post is more or less meaningless.
It is "Office Expenses" on line 13 of IRS990 Statement of Functional expenses. But AMA does not detail what is and isn't part of it, just as they do not detail (to IRS or members) what's in the $1.2 MILLION in "All Other Expenses" .... line 24e on same form. So it may or may not include those charges above, or they may be in 24e ... but either way they're not transparent to members.
Old 07-23-2020, 01:30 PM
  #4  
FUTABA-RC
 
FUTABA-RC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 835
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
I but either way they're not transparent to members.
For comparison, can you show us some other non-profits return info where items like this are detailed beyond what is required by the IRS? Otherwise how can we know for sure if the AMA is not being transparent by detailing the make up of each of those costs?
Old 07-23-2020, 02:15 PM
  #5  
franklin_m
Thread Starter
 
franklin_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 3,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
For comparison, can you show us some other non-profits return info where items like this are detailed beyond what is required by the IRS? Otherwise how can we know for sure if the AMA is not being transparent by detailing the make up of each of those costs?
Sorry, in 2018 alone, the "all other expenses" was $1.2 MILLION - over 10% of AMA's budget. When it's not itemized for the IRS, and especially when it's not itemized for members, that's a huge "slush fund" opportunity. Transparency is even more important when what little oversight comes from an EC that:

- Doesn't publish detailed agendas well in advance of decisions being made
- AND publishes details of what decisions were made until a month or more afterwards

Last edited by franklin_m; 07-23-2020 at 03:42 PM.
Old 07-23-2020, 09:55 PM
  #6  
FUTABA-RC
 
FUTABA-RC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 835
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Sorry, in 2018 alone, the "all other expenses" was $1.2 MILLION - over 10% of AMA's budget. When it's not itemized for the IRS, and especially when it's not itemized for members, that's a huge "slush fund" opportunity. Transparency is even more important when what little oversight comes from an EC that:

- Doesn't publish detailed agendas well in advance of decisions being made
- AND publishes details of what decisions were made until a month or more afterwards

So that's a no then??
Old 07-24-2020, 02:45 AM
  #7  
franklin_m
Thread Starter
 
franklin_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 3,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
So that's a no then??
I don't have access to any other non-profit internal financials, so I cannot make a comparison. But what I can say for sure is that over 10% of AMA's budget last year is hidden from members.
Old 07-24-2020, 06:58 AM
  #8  
FUTABA-RC
 
FUTABA-RC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 835
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

There are numerous sources where you can see the 990's for non-profits. Guidestar is one. Here's a fun fact, AOPA posted a $5,000,000 loss in 2018, and $2,500,000 the year before. They must be run as badly as the AMA!!
Old 07-24-2020, 07:08 AM
  #9  
franklin_m
Thread Starter
 
franklin_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 3,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
There are numerous sources where you can see the 990's for non-profits. Guidestar is one. Here's a fun fact, AOPA posted a $5,000,000 loss in 2018, and $2,500,000 the year before. They must be run as badly as the AMA!!
Perhaps. But unlike AMA, they’re not being mismanaged with my money.
Old 07-24-2020, 01:11 PM
  #10  
init4fun
 
init4fun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,605
Received 13 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
I don't have access to any other non-profit internal financials, so I cannot make a comparison. But what I can say for sure is that over 10% of AMA's budget last year is hidden from members.
Interesting , , very interesting .....

I have been trying , I really have , , , but , I can't think of a single instance where over 10% of the business of a non profit model airplane club should be hidden from the members ?????

We're not talking national security here , or even the all important "trade secrets" , It's a model airplane club for crying out loud !

Is anyone else out there just a wee bit curious as to where this money is being spent ?
Old 07-24-2020, 01:35 PM
  #11  
franklin_m
Thread Starter
 
franklin_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 3,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Interesting , , very interesting .....

I have been trying , I really have , , , but , I can't think of a single instance where over 10% of the business of a non profit model airplane club should be hidden from the members ?????

We're not talking national security here , or even the all important "trade secrets" , It's a model airplane club for crying out loud !

Is anyone else out there just a wee bit curious as to where this money is being spent ?
You can hide a lot of things in $1 million dollars ... in 2018 alone. There is absolutely zero excuse why that information should not be available to members as part of a regular disclosure. And those "financial reports" they produce are a joke. Virtually the same info as on public documents. Again, what are they hiding? These aren't state secrets.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.