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Why isn't AMA giving details of it's "wins?"

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Why isn't AMA giving details of it's "wins?"

Old 07-24-2020, 03:56 AM
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franklin_m
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Default Why isn't AMA giving details of it's "wins?"

We've heard from AMA government affairs that they're making such great progress on altitudes etc. Well, how about proving it!

How many clubs have approached AMA asking for help getting higher altitudes?

How many clubs have received higher altitudes after AMA's help?

For all of those that got higher altitudes, what were they flying before 349, what was LAANC limit, what did they request, and what did AMA get?
Old 07-24-2020, 06:56 AM
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You really are tireless aren't you?
Old 07-24-2020, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
You really are tireless aren't you?
it’s all about putting meaningful points on the board in exchange for our money.

And AMA rhetoric is great about I’m what they’ve done 30 years ago, and vague generalities about altitudes now, but zero specifics.

I submit that’s because their “points” are not that impressive.
Old 07-24-2020, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
You really are tireless aren't you?
Wouldn’t you like to know the specifics behind their claims, or do you just trust that what they believe are great things are really great?

Astro
Old 07-25-2020, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
Wouldn’t you like to know the specifics behind their claims, or do you just trust that what they believe are great things are really great?

Astro
How can anyone who visits this forum even once in awhile not be acutely aware of all the things wrong with the AMA. Five or six of you here spend a great deal of time and energy elucidating the shortcomings of the AMA in excruciating detail? As I said, you guys are tireless.

Curious, have you gotten any idea of the impact on changing the attitudes of the membership which is stated fairly often as the goal?
Old 07-26-2020, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
How can anyone who visits this forum even once in awhile not be acutely aware of all the things wrong with the AMA. Five or six of you here spend a great deal of time and energy elucidating the shortcomings of the AMA in excruciating detail? As I said, you guys are tireless.

Curious, have you gotten any idea of the impact on changing the attitudes of the membership which is stated fairly often as the goal?
i never stated I wanted to change anyone’s attitude. I want to bring the facts to the table, so the uninformed can better make decisions based on fact and not rhetoric.

Now, do you mind answering MY question?

Astro
Old 07-26-2020, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
How can anyone who visits this forum even once in awhile not be acutely aware of all the things wrong with the AMA. Five or six of you here spend a great deal of time and energy elucidating the shortcomings of the AMA in excruciating detail? As I said, you guys are tireless.

Curious, have you gotten any idea of the impact on changing the attitudes of the membership which is stated fairly often as the goal?
My goal is to drive change in leadership, and illuminate issues for regulators, as I feel AMA should not be permitted to take a hands off attitude WRT compliance of its members. Safety in the NAS depends on people doing the right thing when nobody is looking, but that culture isn't built w/o the organization having active programs to check itself. AMA wants to promulgate rules then sit in Muncie and do nothing about enforcing them ... and just collect money.

Speaking of money. Even the revenue numbers provided by CFO yesterday are mid-year, before renewal season. Listen... he parsed his words very carefully:


26:44: "... we are sittin' about where we were last year for membership numbers ..." - no mention if includes free members; easy way to "juice" totals

26:48 " ... at 26:48 he says "...as we go through this next renewal period, we'll see what happens ..." - meaning they really don't know impacts, since members now made decision months ago (lagging).

My point is that they very deliberately did not mention that this is not when they will see impacts of renewal decisions. Summer is and always has been their peak in memberships. So if it's flat now, I'd bet money it'll go down. And using anecdotal evidence that people are getting back to kitbuilding? Yeah right. At best, they're only asking people that are giving them the answer they want - confirmation bias at its best. Again, they're operating based on the way they want things to be, not how they actually are.
Old 07-26-2020, 04:06 PM
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Cool. But since almost nobody even knows this forum exists and the majority of posts are by a very few people, how exactly do you see your considerable posting efforts as doing anything besides driving up post counts in this RCU sub-forum??
Old 07-26-2020, 05:10 PM
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Guess ya don’t want to answer that one, eh?

Astro
Old 07-26-2020, 10:15 PM
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i get questions about the carp posted in the AMA forums from folks at flying sites/events, that have never posted on rcg or rcu. makes me think more folks read this carp than will ever respond to any of it on line.
Old 07-27-2020, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mongo View Post
i get questions about the carp posted in the AMA forums from folks at flying sites/events, that have never posted on rcg or rcu. makes me think more folks read this carp than will ever respond to any of it on line.
I've had the opposite experience. I fly at two different clubs and while some people seem slightly aware of what the FAA is doing to us, I rarely, if ever, hear anyone talking about what they read in an AMA forum on either RCG or RCU. As evidenced by the voting numbers, the plain fact is most people do not care even a little bit about the AMA once they have paid their annual dues so they can continue to fly at a club field.
Old 07-27-2020, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
I've had the opposite experience. I fly at two different clubs and while some people seem slightly aware of what the FAA is doing to us, I rarely, if ever, hear anyone talking about what they read in an AMA forum on either RCG or RCU. As evidenced by the voting numbers, the plain fact is most people do not care even a little bit about the AMA once they have paid their annual dues so they can continue to fly at a club field.
And that apathy, combined with the head in the sand approach by the EC will all but seal AMA's fate. What's AMA going to do when RemoteID comes out pretty much as written? Sue FAA. We know how well that worked out last time.
Old 07-27-2020, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
And that apathy, combined with the head in the sand approach by the EC will all but seal AMA's fate. What's AMA going to do when RemoteID comes out pretty much as written? Sue FAA. We know how well that worked out last time.
No idea. I heard less than 100 logged on for the member's meeting.
Old 07-28-2020, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by FUTABA-RC View Post
No idea. I heard less than 100 logged on for the member's meeting.
The most I saw at any point was around 80, but that was on YT. There were other streams available, so I don't know there was a readily available total. However, it was sparsely attended. Just like the "National" fun fly event. That only had about 80 people.
Old 07-28-2020, 03:56 AM
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80 people for a first time event, with everything that is going on and the social distancing restrictions is great.

Old 07-28-2020, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
80 people for a first time event, with everything that is going on and the social distancing restrictions is great.
Andy , with all due respect , I totally disagree with your view on this .

At such a critical time in our hobby , with an organization of what , 175 thousand , give or take a few (Hell even if we were only 75 thousand) , 80 members is flippin pathetic from where I'm sitting .

Franklin is right , It's not a matter of if , , , , but when ....
Old 07-28-2020, 10:38 AM
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Joe Nall started with 35 pilots
Old 07-28-2020, 11:52 AM
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How many of the minions logged on to ask questions? This was your chance I would have thought you guys would have been all over this.
How about Franky he log or ask any questions?
Oh that's right some of you are not members so I guess you would have to wait until someone who is a member would ask for you. Go figure LOL.
Of all Frankys questions did even one make it to the discussion? At least one, come on one of you turkeys must have had the gumption to stand and be counted.

Dennis
Old 07-28-2020, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
. However, it was sparsely attended. Just like the "National" fun fly event. That only had about 80 people.


There have been a few times when I got flamed for making the claim that facts are being mis represented. Here is a prime example. The " National " fun fly event that ONLY had 80 people. Yes that is an accurate fact but not without spin. Where are the supporting facts? Fact: Inaugural event. Fact: Held during a pandemic. Fact: Just a few weeks following the NATs.

Least we not mention that several months ago Frank was all in a twist about events being held in spite of the health risks and now is in a twist because in his opinion an event wasn't well enough attended?
Old 07-28-2020, 03:15 PM
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To make sure we're all on the same page here ;

My comment about the lackluster participation was in reference to the on line member's meeting , and not the National fun fly or Joe Nall . Sure I do sympathize with anyone trying to run any in person event in these socially distant times , but "less that 100" logging on from the safety of their own living room (Workshop ? Basement ? Dungeon ? Hell I won't judge where ya get your model airplane computer fix) is like I said before , Damned pathetic

The first person who can prove they caught the 'Rona on line gets a free pass for not attending the ON LINE member's meeting . All others , please refer to my above posted statement .
Old 07-28-2020, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
To make sure we're all on the same page here ;

My comment about the lackluster participation was in reference to the on line member's meeting , and not the National fun fly or Joe Nall . Sure I do sympathize with anyone trying to run any in person event in these socially distant times , but "less that 100" logging on from the safety of their own living room (Workshop ? Basement ? Dungeon ? Hell I won't judge where ya get your model airplane computer fix) is like I said before , Damned pathetic

The first person who can prove they caught the 'Rona on line gets a free pass for not attending the ON LINE member's meeting . All others , please refer to my above posted statement .


Agree 100%, I would have hoped that more would tune in just as I had hoped that more would have voted. Until things start having an impact at the flying field I would expect more of the same.
Old 07-28-2020, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Agree 100%, I would have hoped that more would tune in just as I had hoped that more would have voted. Until things start having an impact at the flying field I would expect more of the same.
Speed , in your statement , I believe you've hit on the number one reason for the member apathy , things ARE still 100% the same at my club's field today as they have been for all the years I've been a member . When things DO go beyond only having to have an FAA number next to our AMA number on the plane is when folks will finally take notice , although I truly fear it'll be too late by then .
Old 07-28-2020, 03:36 PM
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it is already too late, init.
Old 07-28-2020, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Speed , in your statement , I believe you've hit on the number one reason for the member apathy , things ARE still 100% the same at my club's field today as they have been for all the years I've been a member . When things DO go beyond only having to have an FAA number next to our AMA number on the plane is when folks will finally take notice , although I truly fear it'll be too late by then .

I'm not sure that it will ever get to that point. I don't see any FAA reps or Law enforcement wanting to cite people for flying model airplanes. Can you imagine showing up for court and after the judge has heard cases all week concerning domestic violence, drugs, assault etc that when your model airplane violation comes across his desk he is going to give it the same consideration? I would tend to think he's ( or she ) is going to view it as a waste of time. Then what about the communities that refuse to prosecute? Just like pot is still illegal on the federal level yet many states have made it legal. I think all this does is give the FAA some teeth when some idiot flys FPV in the wrong location and does endanger lives.
Old 07-28-2020, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
There have been a few times when I got flamed for making the claim that facts are being mis represented. Here is a prime example. The " National " fun fly event that ONLY had 80 people. Yes that is an accurate fact but not without spin. Where are the supporting facts? Fact: Inaugural event. Fact: Held during a pandemic. Fact: Just a few weeks following the NATs.

Least we not mention that several months ago Frank was all in a twist about events being held in spite of the health risks and now is in a twist because in his opinion an event wasn't well enough attended?
In reality, I disagree with them holding the NATS at all. As I disagree with holding this event.

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