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AMA's new "free benefit" isn't new at all ... LAANC's been free for a year already

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AMA's new "free benefit" isn't new at all ... LAANC's been free for a year already

Old 10-21-2020, 03:55 AM
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franklin_m
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Default AMA's new "free benefit" isn't new at all ... LAANC's been free for a year already

In a much hyped announcement on AMA Air, they tell us of a "new benefit" that will allow members to get free LAANC requests in "UAS Sidekick." Except of course LAANC requests have been free for over a year already - through Kittyhawk for example (note 1). I guess only in the EC's twisted alternate reality is it a "new benefit" to give you something for free that you could already get for free!

Note 1: From 2019! "Kittyhawk will offer LAANC service to recreational pilots for free..."
https://dronedj.com/2019/07/23/dji-r...ttyhawk-laanc/
Old 10-21-2020, 08:37 AM
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Really with everything screwed up in the world today this is what's tearing your world apart? How shallow can you get. Your bent outa shape because the AMA created a direct link on the website for members and called it new. Wow how petty can you get no wonder nothing you ever say or do gets beyond the trash can at AMA offices.
Old 10-21-2020, 08:45 AM
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I don't see anything petty about making everyone aware that the AMA is a year behind the times and where to go to deal directly with manufacturers and FAA. The only thing I see as petty is you trying to make yourself look good by running Franklin down.
Old 10-21-2020, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Really with everything screwed up in the world today this is what's tearing your world apart? How shallow can you get. Your bent outa shape because the AMA created a direct link on the website for members and called it new. Wow how petty can you get no wonder nothing you ever say or do gets beyond the trash can at AMA offices.
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
LOL, you know where the door is. Don't like it the get the hell out.
..
Old 10-21-2020, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
I don't see anything petty about making everyone aware that the AMA is a year behind the times and where to go to deal directly with manufacturers and FAA. The only thing I see as petty is you trying to make yourself look good by running Franklin down.
The half dozen AMA detractors that frequent Franklins topics can hardly be called everyone LOL. I think its pretty petty to carry on and make such a big deal over something so minor. Just shows in his advanced stage of frustration how low can he can go. Are you now officially Franky's wingman? You guys bring new meaning to Clown Posse.
Old 10-21-2020, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
..
Another one of the Clown Posse who can't seem to think or speak for themselves. You used to quote Franky all the time now Speed?

Speed you should be pleased it appears you've moved up in the world. I wonder if they will have an induction ceremony into their heralded ranks of the Franklin Fan Club and Mutual Admiration Society.
Old 10-21-2020, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Another one of the Clown Posse who can't seem to think or speak for themselves. You used to quote Franky all the time now Speed?

Speed you should be pleased it appears you've moved up in the world. I wonder if they will have an induction ceremony into their heralded ranks of the Franklin Fan Club and Mutual Admiration Society.
And , let the cannibalization begin !

Old 10-21-2020, 01:42 PM
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Minor? Oh, that explains why they spent time talking about on their weekly AMA Air ... with lots of "...will be rolling out very soon..." and "...please stay tuned..." and how they "...provide an app for LAANC..." and that it's going to be a "...free (w/ emphasis in voice) member benefit to members..." and "...please be on the lookout..."

And if it's so minor, why does she say we may be giving more through AMA Today, maybe a podcast, etc.?

They pretty clearly think it's "new" though, as I said, anyone could get the same thing for free from Kittyhawk for over a year already.
Old 10-21-2020, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
And , let the cannibalization begin !
No cannibalization just a little graveyard humor teasing poor speed for something he had no knowledge or control over.
Old 01-04-2021, 08:47 PM
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I don't understand. As I see it, it's pretty simple.

1. If the AMA is having financial issues and can address them without raising my membership dues cool.
2. Companies buy and sell our personal information all the time (daily), if AMA is doing this without sharing what little information about me they have, then great. We give facebook exclusive rights to the most intimate details of our lives, not to mention the tracking device I carry in my pocket every day (cell phone).
3. We get a group discount on our liability insurance through AMA, for better or worse perhaps this is another benefit to a membership that skews older and can probably use it. If it works for you use it, if not then don't enroll! It's just that simple. Now, if they raise your membership by $180 a year and force you to enroll, then I will be the first one complaining.
4. If you don't like how the BOD or EC is doing their job, don't just complain about it, vote on the elected positions. better yet, campaign, run, join, volunteer

Old 01-05-2021, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by AAbdu View Post
I don't understand. As I see it, it's pretty simple.

1. If the AMA is having financial issues and can address them without raising my membership dues cool.
2. Companies buy and sell our personal information all the time (daily), if AMA is doing this without sharing what little information about me they have, then great. We give facebook exclusive rights to the most intimate details of our lives, not to mention the tracking device I carry in my pocket every day (cell phone).
3. We get a group discount on our liability insurance through AMA, for better or worse perhaps this is another benefit to a membership that skews older and can probably use it. If it works for you use it, if not then don't enroll! It's just that simple. Now, if they raise your membership by $180 a year and force you to enroll, then I will be the first one complaining.
4. If you don't like how the BOD or EC is doing their job, don't just complain about it, vote on the elected positions. better yet, campaign, run, join, volunteer
My issue with this centers on spending limited resources, staff time and effort, pursuing a "new" benefit that members have had all along. Those resources are better spent pursuing more important efforts, like retaining members who leave or downgrade. Or working state and local issues. Or preparing for FRIA implementation, etc. etc. This? A waste of time.
Old 01-05-2021, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
My issue with this centers on spending limited resources, staff time and effort, pursuing a "new" benefit that members have had all along. Those resources are better spent pursuing more important efforts, like retaining members who leave or downgrade. Or working state and local issues. Or preparing for FRIA implementation, etc. etc. This? A waste of time.
Who says they arenít? Just because they donít publicize everything they are working on doesnít mean they arenít doing so.

And after watching some of our more ďseniorĒ members having issues typing a web address into a browser, having a link is something that costs AMA nothing, and might actually benefit some of the membership.

R_Strowe
Old 01-05-2021, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by R_Strowe View Post
Who says they arenít? Just because they donít publicize everything they are working on doesnít mean they arenít doing so.

And after watching some of our more ďseniorĒ members having issues typing a web address into a browser, having a link is something that costs AMA nothing, and might actually benefit some of the membership.

R_Strowe
NOW STOP TRYING TO USE COMMON SENSE!!!!
It will just upset others because they can't refute it
Old 01-05-2021, 01:07 PM
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How many people can work on a single project at a time anyway? And we all know government issues/projects are hurry up and wait. They might as well be doing something productive while waiting for a response or the public comment period. Again, if you have a "pet list" of what you would like to see done that was foregone in lieu of access to Telehealth to an elderly population, send it to them, or better yet, throw your hat in the ring and be that additional resource. You might be surprised to find out they are working on it. I'm not criticizing you, I'm just saying there are even more productive ways of complaining than being ticked off about all the phantom projects that aren't getting done. I learned a long time ago, if you are sincere about wanting something improved, be specific about it (I did see someones list earlier in the thread) or do it yourself. The AMA belongs to us, we can vote for officers and last AI checked they were not turning away volunteers. It is our responsibility to make it the best organization it can be, sometimes that means actually getting involved.

My daddy always told me;

"it's better to light a single candle than to curse the dark"
Old 01-05-2021, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by AAbdu View Post
How many people can work on a single project at a time anyway? And we all know government issues/projects are hurry up and wait. They might as well be doing something productive while waiting for a response or the public comment period. Again, if you have a "pet list" of what you would like to see done that was foregone in lieu of access to Telehealth to an elderly population, send it to them, or better yet, throw your hat in the ring and be that additional resource. You might be surprised to find out they are working on it. I'm not criticizing you, I'm just saying there are even more productive ways of complaining than being ticked off about all the phantom projects that aren't getting done. I learned a long time ago, if you are sincere about wanting something improved, be specific about it (I did see someones list earlier in the thread) or do it yourself. The AMA belongs to us, we can vote for officers and last AI checked they were not turning away volunteers. It is our responsibility to make it the best organization it can be, sometimes that means actually getting involved.

My daddy always told me;

"it's better to light a single candle than to curse the dark"
The problem isn't that people want to get involved because many do. The problem is THE POWERS THAT BE DON'T WANT PEOPLE INVOLVED!!!!
If the powers that be really wanted to get others involved, wouldn't they be more transparent about what's going on and ask the members for suggestions and ideas? Instead, they keep everyone in the dark, ignore the membership and their ideas and, generally speaking, make it impossible for the membership to get involved. When you really look at it, that is a common theme in almost every thread in the AMA forum. Hell, we even have an area VP that hangs out in the AMA threads and, when we ask a question or an opinion, we get the same non-answers that the members get when they ask the AMA HQ in Muncie. That said, let me make one thing crystal clear on this:
I'm not calling out Barracuda Hockey on this. I suspect he's being limited on what he can say by the EC. As long as the EC members continue to with hold information or refuse to answer questions on what's being done or where things are headed TRUTHFULLY, there's no way others can get involved

Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 01-05-2021 at 02:52 PM.
Old 01-05-2021, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by AAbdu View Post
How many people can work on a single project at a time anyway? And we all know government issues/projects are hurry up and wait. They might as well be doing something productive while waiting for a response or the public comment period. Again, if you have a "pet list" of what you would like to see done that was foregone in lieu of access to Telehealth to an elderly population, send it to them, or better yet, throw your hat in the ring and be that additional resource. You might be surprised to find out they are working on it. I'm not criticizing you, I'm just saying there are even more productive ways of complaining than being ticked off about all the phantom projects that aren't getting done. I learned a long time ago, if you are sincere about wanting something improved, be specific about it (I did see someones list earlier in the thread) or do it yourself. The AMA belongs to us, we can vote for officers and last AI checked they were not turning away volunteers. It is our responsibility to make it the best organization it can be, sometimes that means actually getting involved.

My daddy always told me;

"it's better to light a single candle than to curse the dark"
I do organizational performance improvement for a living, cost control, efficiency, etc. I offered to do assessment free of charge, just pay travel. They declined. Are you saying that every other higher priority is complete, so they have time and effort to pursue this garbage? Getting some benefit that that members actually already have? Every single member that is getting this new "benefit" for free already has it available to them for "free," Just from a different provider. And they have, for years. A benefit isn't a benefit when you already have it.
Old 01-05-2021, 08:46 PM
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A couple of points;
1. I don't make an equivalency between transparency and a desire for help, that's just me. Tha fact that not everything is shared is prolly more a function of the challenges of effective mass communication vs. any overt dishonesty. And before anyone mentions it, being evasive and refusing to directly answer questions is different and should be handle differently.
2. As for priorities:
A. I can't say what the highest priority for the membership is, I can only say what my highest priority is, but yours is likely different. I know it's a stretch but I am allowing for the possibility that Telemedicine is a top 5 priority.
B. I have zero insight as to the completion of any list as described above and any suggestion to the contrary is unintentional.
C. I was completely unaware that I already had access to telemedicine services, I plan to take advantage immediately as my fricken back is killin me! Who is my provider (I have BCBS through my wife's employer)?
3. We live in the Information Age, are there really any secrets? Our DVP is the famous Tim Jesky, and he is as straight a shooter as I have ever known, and a very dear friend, if I had a question he would give me an honest answer, if he didn't know he would find someone that does. My point is, if you want to know, keep asking till you get an answer. It worked for Andy Dufrain (Shawshank Redemption).

do I blindly follow AMA EC leadership... No
am I worried about my continued ability to safely and legally enjoy the hobby I love... Absolutely
do I feel like the AMA is doing everything possible to make that happen.... Prolly not

​​​But here is the difference; I don't think I can do it better nor do I want that crappy prolly low paying, and from the sounds of it, thankless PIA job. Until such time as that changes I will quietly support the effort.
Old 01-05-2021, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by AAbdu View Post
A couple of points;
1. I don't make an equivalency between transparency and a desire for help, that's just me. Tha fact that not everything is shared is prolly more a function of the challenges of effective mass communication vs. any overt dishonesty. And before anyone mentions it, being evasive and refusing to directly answer questions is different and should be handle differently.
2. As for priorities:
A. I can't say what the highest priority for the membership is, I can only say what my highest priority is, but yours is likely different. I know it's a stretch but I am allowing for the possibility that Telemedicine is a top 5 priority.
B. I have zero insight as to the completion of any list as described above and any suggestion to the contrary is unintentional.
C. I was completely unaware that I already had access to telemedicine services, I plan to take advantage immediately as my fricken back is killin me! Who is my provider (I have BCBS through my wife's employer)?
3. We live in the Information Age, are there really any secrets? Our DVP is the famous Tim Jesky, and he is as straight a shooter as I have ever known, and a very dear friend, if I had a question he would give me an honest answer, if he didn't know he would find someone that does. My point is, if you want to know, keep asking till you get an answer. It worked for Andy Dufrain (Shawshank Redemption).

do I blindly follow AMA EC leadership... No
am I worried about my continued ability to safely and legally enjoy the hobby I love... Absolutely
do I feel like the AMA is doing everything possible to make that happen.... Prolly not

​​​But here is the difference; I don't think I can do it better nor do I want that crappy prolly low paying, and from the sounds of it, thankless PIA job. Until such time as that changes I will quietly support the effort.
Nicely stated post, my compliments on it. That said, I still stand by my belief(stated in my previous post) that the powers that be don't want anyone to know what's going on nor are they willing to accept or solicit ideas other than what they come up with themselves.
Old 01-06-2021, 05:22 AM
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AAbdu, I doubt that you already have access to Telemedicine. The company I work for just switched over to a new heath care provider. Telemedicine was an add on option that would have cost me $4.00 per pay check ( $104.00 per year ) AND they were charging $30.00 per consultation. Through the AMA appears to be a much better deal.
Old 01-06-2021, 07:01 AM
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Telemedicine a BENEFIT? REALLY guys? I'd rather call Miss Cleo.....

Not to mention, my Dr. has a phone. Last I checked, I can call him anytime I want, all on my own.....

Astro
Old 01-06-2021, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
AAbdu, I doubt that you already have access to Telemedicine. The company I work for just switched over to a new heath care provider. Telemedicine was an add on option that would have cost me $4.00 per pay check ( $104.00 per year ) AND they were charging $30.00 per consultation. Through the AMA appears to be a much better deal.
Speed, you can't tell him that what you get is what he should get. You also can't say that the AMA is the best deal out there because it's not. It depends more on the organization that's being insured than anything else
Old 01-06-2021, 08:31 AM
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Tempted though I may be to comment on Speedy's latest demonstration of clairvoyance, knowing what healthcare commenters here in this forum have and do not have, the point this thread is the new free LAANC benefit. One would think such a thread purity warrior as Speedy would hold himself to the same standard he selectively complains about for others, but I digress.

As noted earlier, LAANC has been free through other providers for over a year (maybe longer, I just can't cite with certainty). The goal of this, along with the telemedicine and God knows what else is other sources of revenue. The AMA is an organization who's principal purpose is service to recreational flyers. But this "new" LAANC provider makes money (and thus AMA cut) on up-sells, mostly geared toward commercial operators. Outside of the obvious disconnect between a recreational organization courting commercial flyers, the real question is why does AMA need this money?

The need the money because membership revenue continues to plummet. They're tripping over dollars (retaining members that are leaving or downgrading) to pick up pennies (small cut on small number of commercial user up-sells). I'm sure the person spending staff time putting together this deal could have spent time calling every member that did not renew and find out why. And when all of those are done, maybe they could call everyone who's within a month of renewal and showing some personal contact and concern ... the ask for their vote kind of thing. The personal touch. Or maybe call every "free youth" member that didn't convert to paying when they turned 19 and find out why. That's chasing dollars.

Lets say you don't care about membership. Ok. How about calling each and every club that hasn't renewed? Or each and every club that hasn't completed paperwork? Maybe help them with it or even do it for them. AMA has a lot more to lose long term with fewer clubs overall. Or maybe help clubs that are searching for new flying sites? Instead of tossing into the lap of the club, actually HELP them.

Or maybe the CD / EM program. If indeed events and competitions are good for the AMA, why are we charging people to do what they want to them to do ... get qualified? Or having them go through the website and clean out all the dead links, documents that haven't been updated for years, or are just plain wrong (like many that still reference 336 despite 336 being repealed in its entirety over two years ago)?

My point is there's lots of other functions they could be doing instead of chasing a few pennies from things with tenuous connections to the organization's core mission.

Last edited by franklin_m; 01-06-2021 at 08:33 AM.
Old 01-06-2021, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Tempted though I may be to comment on Speedy's latest demonstration of clairvoyance, knowing what healthcare commenters here in this forum have and do not have, the point this thread is the new free LAANC benefit. One would think such a thread purity warrior as Speedy would hold himself to the same standard he selectively complains about for others, but I digress.

As noted earlier, LAANC has been free through other providers for over a year (maybe longer, I just can't cite with certainty). The goal of this, along with the telemedicine and God knows what else is other sources of revenue. The AMA is an organization who's principal purpose is service to recreational flyers. But this "new" LAANC provider makes money (and thus AMA cut) on up-sells, mostly geared toward commercial operators. Outside of the obvious disconnect between a recreational organization courting commercial flyers, the real question is why does AMA need this money?

The need the money because membership revenue continues to plummet. They're tripping over dollars (retaining members that are leaving or downgrading) to pick up pennies (small cut on small number of commercial user up-sells). I'm sure the person spending staff time putting together this deal could have spent time calling every member that did not renew and find out why. And when all of those are done, maybe they could call everyone who's within a month of renewal and showing some personal contact and concern ... the ask for their vote kind of thing. The personal touch. Or maybe call every "free youth" member that didn't convert to paying when they turned 19 and find out why. That's chasing dollars.

Lets say you don't care about membership. Ok. How about calling each and every club that hasn't renewed? Or each and every club that hasn't completed paperwork? Maybe help them with it or even do it for them. AMA has a lot more to lose long term with fewer clubs overall. Or maybe help clubs that are searching for new flying sites? Instead of tossing into the lap of the club, actually HELP them.

Or maybe the CD / EM program. If indeed events and competitions are good for the AMA, why are we charging people to do what they want to them to do ... get qualified? Or having them go through the website and clean out all the dead links, documents that haven't been updated for years, or are just plain wrong (like many that still reference 336 despite 336 being repealed in its entirety over two years ago)?

My point is there's lots of other functions they could be doing instead of chasing a few pennies from things with tenuous connections to the organization's core mission.
https://amaflightschool.org/getstart...ew-flying-site

Before Tony Stillman was doing this, it was Joe Beshar (a personal friend of mine). Unfortunately he passed away in 2014. However, he used to work tirelessly helping club both find new flying sites as well as improve existing ones. If I remember correctly he was the eastern US coordinator, and Tony became the western coordinator.

If you go to the link provided you will see one of the major issues, that being potential locations for flying sites. The east coast is pretty much devoid of suitable land. But last I checked, the AMA still has this available as a service. Just because they wouldn't help you build your field on a military base doesn't mean they don't assist clubs trying to find and build flying sites.

R_Strowe
Old 01-06-2021, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by R_Strowe View Post
https://amaflightschool.org/getstart...ew-flying-site

Before Tony Stillman was doing this, it was Joe Beshar (a personal friend of mine). Unfortunately he passed away in 2014. However, he used to work tirelessly helping club both find new flying sites as well as improve existing ones. If I remember correctly he was the eastern US coordinator, and Tony became the western coordinator.

If you go to the link provided you will see one of the major issues, that being potential locations for flying sites. The east coast is pretty much devoid of suitable land. But last I checked, the AMA still has this available as a service. Just because they wouldn't help you build your field on a military base doesn't mean they don't assist clubs trying to find and build flying sites.
Yep, that was a program rolled out what? Three or four years ago? If memory serves, he went to some national parks and rec symposium. I think AMA put out the list asking for clubs to adopt these sites in addition to the one they already have. Yeah right. Clubs struggle to get money to maintain the site they have and AMA wants them to get a second one? Out of their own pocket? More importantly, looks like many still there waiting. I'd be curious to see what the rate of return was on these? How many clubs actually pursued the list and got a field. Predict you could count them on one hand.

But given they get little of their money from club dues, seems the better place to put the time and effort would have been into finding out why members aren't renewing and/or finding out why their infamous "free youth" memberships had such a small conversion rate. Again, their major problem is MEMBERSHIP dollars.
Old 01-06-2021, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Yep, that was a program rolled out what? Three or four years ago? If memory serves, he went to some national parks and rec symposium. I think AMA put out the list asking for clubs to adopt these sites in addition to the one they already have. Yeah right. Clubs struggle to get money to maintain the site they have and AMA wants them to get a second one? Out of their own pocket? More importantly, looks like many still there waiting. I'd be curious to see what the rate of return was on these? How many clubs actually pursued the list and got a field. Predict you could count them on one hand.

But given they get little of their money from club dues, seems the better place to put the time and effort would have been into finding out why members aren't renewing and/or finding out why their infamous "free youth" memberships had such a small conversion rate. Again, their major problem is MEMBERSHIP dollars.
Actually, Joe passed away over 6 years ago. And he was actively doing that job for the AMA for a good 10-15 years before that.

I'm sure the AMA would provide that info. Maybe Tony Stillman could do that. I seem to remember at least 3 or 4 clubs per year that have a short writeup in Model Aviation about using grants for field improvement, as well as securing new sites with AMA's help. And I'm sure that not every club gets listed. But you would have to read the magazine to know that.

Or maybe not. Because when one keeps trying to get answers with vinegar instead of honey, they tend to get ignored. Get it?

R_Strowe

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