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Paying for mediocrity - your AMA dollar

Old 11-12-2020, 09:12 AM
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franklin_m
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Default Paying for mediocrity - your AMA dollar

According to AMA's IRS 990 filings, the AMA "IT DIRECTOR" is the second or third highest paid person at "Taj-Muncie." Meanwhile, as of this morning:
- 24 October link to EC "Minutes" produces a Page not found"
- 24 October link to EC "Motions" is actually the minutes

Why are we paying top dollar salaries when they consistently can't even get simple things like this right? It's not like the workload is terribly high right now.

Aren't we paying the worker to get it right the first time?
Aren't we paying some mid level supervisor to check the workers?
Aren't we paying the IT DIRECTOR to ensure things get done correctly?
And aren't we paying the ED to make sure the staff does things correctly?

And yet, apparently they're not doing any of the above, but getting paid top salary (ED) and either second or third highest salary (IT Director). No wonder AMA is losing money, paying people to do jobs they're clearly not doing, or not doing well, is a prime reason.

Last edited by franklin_m; 11-12-2020 at 09:38 AM.
Old 11-13-2020, 06:40 AM
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Did you send an email to ask why the minutes aren't posted? I find that, in general, leaders don't want to look bad. So if something like that isn't done, there is often a good reason. I also find that it's better to know the facts before judging and then publicly bashing a guy who generally works for your good.
Old 11-13-2020, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jester_s1 View Post
Did you send an email to ask why the minutes aren't posted? I find that, in general, leaders don't want to look bad. So if something like that isn't done, there is often a good reason. I also find that it's better to know the facts before judging and then publicly bashing a guy who generally works for your good.
Look out Jester question Franklin and the Minions might pile on.
Old 11-13-2020, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jester_s1 View Post
Did you send an email to ask why the minutes aren't posted? I find that, in general, leaders don't want to look bad. So if something like that isn't done, there is often a good reason. I also find that it's better to know the facts before judging and then publicly bashing a guy who generally works for your good.
If it were the first time, sure. I'll throw them a bone. But this is repeatedly a problem. The last time I checked demographic data, the ED is getting a top 1% salary for Muncie, a top 5% salary for all of Indiana. Given the amount paid to the IT Director, they're in that same rarefied strata, or very close. As "Leaders" are they not responsible for setting and enforcing performance standards? It's doesn't appear to me that they do, for if they did this problem would have been fixed (as of this AM it still is not). That tells me the worker isn't checking their own work. That worker's direct supervisor isn't checking their work. That supervisor's supervisor (likely the IT Director) isn't checking their work. And the ED is not checking the IT Director is checking.

And I remind you, that's people being paid top 1%/5% salaries, with member money. That's not the performance I expect.
Old 11-13-2020, 10:43 AM
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So that's a No then? You saw something that looked off, and immediately came to a public forum to bash them rather than ask if there is a reason it was done that way?
How about making an inquiry to the AMA and report back on what they say. If there's not a legitimate explanation, then you'll have a good reason to complain.
Old 11-13-2020, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jester_s1 View Post
So that's a No then? You saw something that looked off, and immediately came to a public forum to bash them rather than ask if there is a reason it was done that way?
How about making an inquiry to the AMA and report back on what they say. If there's not a legitimate explanation, then you'll have a good reason to complain.
As noted above, this isnít the first time, thus why should I do their job for them and point out that they didnít check their work (i.e. the staffís), when part of earning a top 1% salary means that you donít need to be told to check your staffís work.

When you pay top 1% price for something, are you telling me you accept it when thereís no QA/QC? So you pay top 1% for tire change ... how many lug nuts are you willing to tolerate not being tight? Sure sounds like youíre willing to tolerate at least one. Which I find hard to believe.

This is less about getting it fixed, i.e. doing their job for them and sending a note letting them know they didnít do their job - than it is paying top salaries to people who clearly arenít doing their jobs.

The other beauty is that Iím under no obligation to prevent them from being embarrassed by their slipshod work. They donít care enough to check, then I donít care enough to worry about their feelings.
Old 11-13-2020, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Look out Jester question Franklin and the Minions might pile on.
These past few posts are a discussion between Jester and Franklin. They are both expressing their view points in a professional way so why would anyone need to, as you put it, pile on. You, on the other hand, probably like your hamburgers raw on doughy, undercooked buns so you wouldn't care if the MAAC equivalent of the AMA's IT department was sloppy in how it posted things on line.
Old 11-13-2020, 10:10 PM
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My only point is that if the concern is the professionalism of AMA leadership, ask them about it. I'm a teacher and sometimes have to rearrange the lesson/grades schedule based on how I see the kids are doing. An observer might think I'm disorganized, a poor communicator and planner, or just plain yanking the kids around. But if they ask, they'll get the explanation. This situation may or may not be perfectly reasonable. Or maybe they screwed up. At this point, we still don't know.
Old 11-13-2020, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jester_s1 View Post
My only point is that if the concern is the professionalism of AMA leadership, ask them about it. I'm a teacher and sometimes have to rearrange the lesson/grades schedule based on how I see the kids are doing. An observer might think I'm disorganized, a poor communicator and planner, or just plain yanking the kids around. But if they ask, they'll get the explanation. This situation may or may not be perfectly reasonable. Or maybe they screwed up. At this point, we still don't know.
And being a teacher, you know that not all students learn the same way and that you have to bend a bit to get everyone on page. The problem starts when everyone feels they need to have a "silver spoon" to get through a class
Old 11-14-2020, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jester_s1 View Post
My only point is that if the concern is the professionalism of AMA leadership, ask them about it. I'm a teacher and sometimes have to rearrange the lesson/grades schedule based on how I see the kids are doing. An observer might think I'm disorganized, a poor communicator and planner, or just plain yanking the kids around. But if they ask, they'll get the explanation. This situation may or may not be perfectly reasonable. Or maybe they screwed up. At this point, we still don't know.
Interesting you should ask. You see I'm a digital pack rat, so I've saved all the emails I've sent to AMA. I just back and looked, and I stopped counting at 27 different times I've sent them emails ... as you suggested ... regarding lack of attention to detail on websites. Things like TFRs not being listed correctly on their NOTAMS page, POTUS TFR improperly listed ... I mean not like safety of flight is important or anything. Another handful about broken links. They pretty much run the range of issues. I've posted screenshot of subject lines from a small subset below for your convenience.

You said to send them emails first. As I've shown, I've already done that - a lot. And yet it continues. So pardon me if I've come to the conclusion that either they don't care or are incompetent. Pick one.

Old 11-14-2020, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
You said to send them emails first. As I've shown, I've already done that - a lot. And yet it continues. So pardon me if I've come to the conclusion that either they don't care or are incompetent. Pick one.
How many times do you have to be told, Franklin? The AMA has really smart people, and they are trying very hard.

Astro
Old 11-14-2020, 07:27 AM
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If it were a one time only thing , or a very rare once in a lifetime thing that the clerical duties of the annual reports & such were late , that would be one thing and excusable as no one is 100% perfect . But I have been watching for years as Franklin has posted about missing reports , buggy website content , flawed TFRs , and other things of that nature , and the man is right , his posts are proof that these types of errors happen far too often with our AMA compared to what we'd tolerate as customers from any other business . I know I'd be rightly pissed off if my investment manager was always late with my dividend statement or if my internet service provider only delivered some of my Emails .

While true perfection is seldom achieved in most human endeavors , the respectable thing to do is to at least TRY to appear to have that as a primary objective .......
Old 11-14-2020, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
If it were a one time only thing , or a very rare once in a lifetime thing that the clerical duties of the annual reports & such were late , that would be one thing and excusable as no one is 100% perfect . But I have been watching for years as Franklin has posted about missing reports , buggy website content , flawed TFRs , and other things of that nature , and the man is right , his posts are proof that these types of errors happen far too often with our AMA compared to what we'd tolerate as customers from any other business . I know I'd be rightly pissed off if my investment manager was always late with my dividend statement or if my internet service provider only delivered some of my Emails .

While true perfection is seldom achieved in most human endeavors , the respectable thing to do is to at least TRY to appear to have that as a primary objective .......
It is ironic that these shortcomings have been consistently questioned and documented for many years, and the folks that have brought them to light have been portrayed as, and called, "broken record players", "haters", etc., yet those who defend the AMA always say the same thing, "give them time", "Don't expect change overnight", "Give it time", "The AMA has some really smart people running it, they know what they are doing".

I find it funny that all the staunch AMA "defenders", can't ever come in here and show where the AMA is actually achieving any kind of above-par results or wins for the hobby or the organization as a whole.

Astro
Old 11-14-2020, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post

I find it funny that all the staunch AMA "defenders", can't ever come in here and show where the AMA is actually achieving any kind of above-par results or wins for the hobby or the organization as a whole.

Astro
Many people would consider a successful Nats during a pandemic a win. Add to that a successful pattern team selection contest and then next year providing the venue for a worlds championship. Your lack of interest in these events doesn't make them any less of a "win" for the organizations that make them happen.


I will agree 100% that the web site is horrible. I'm also smart enough to figure out that the web site is but a fraction of what the IT department is responsible for.
Old 11-14-2020, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Many people would consider a successful Nats during a pandemic a win. Add to that a successful pattern team selection contest and then next year providing the venue for a worlds championship. Your lack of interest in these events doesn't make them any less of a "win" for the organizations that make them happen.
How many SIGs backed out? Successful? Talk about a low bar.

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
I will agree 100% that the web site is horrible. I'm also smart enough to figure out that the web site is but a fraction of what the IT department is responsible for.
Oh really? The way their membership, club dues, and event revenue are cratering, it sure isn't doing database maintenance. So please, share your IT expertise with everything else they're doing.
Old 11-14-2020, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
How many SIGs backed out? Successful? Talk about a low bar.


Oh really? The way their membership, club dues, and event revenue are cratering, it sure isn't doing database maintenance. So please, share your IT expertise with everything else they're doing.

As far as I know only two. Pattern and Soaring. Although officially the SIGs protested going forward, those events were run and were successful.


As to your second comment, Thank you. Just what I was after. Notice that I was quite civil in my first response in this forum for some time and you fired back aggressively and sarcastically. Just as I had explained to Jester that trying to reason with you is futile. I also shared with him that your demeanor is a major part of why you were banned from RCG.
Old 11-14-2020, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
As far as I know only two. Pattern and Soaring. Although officially the SIGs protested going forward, those events were run and were successful.
You didn't even bother to check the AMA site


"After careful deliberation and reviewing the requests of the International Miniature Aerobatic Club (IMAC), National Association of Scale Aeromodelers (NASA), National Society of Radio Controlled Aerobatics (NSRCA), and the National Free Flight Society (NFFS), the AMA Executive Council agreed to not hold the Free Flight, Scale, IMAC, and Pattern Nats." (note 1)

So who do you think you're kidding? It was a glorified fun fly.

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
As to your second comment, Thank you. Just what I was after. Notice that I was quite civil in my first response in this forum for some time and you fired back aggressively and sarcastically. Just as I had explained to Jester that trying to reason with you is futile. I also shared with him that your demeanor is a major part of why you were banned from RCG.
And yet you failed to back up your statement:

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
I'm also smart enough to figure out that the web site is but a fraction of what the IT department is responsible for.
So again, please elaborate on the above statement. Fewer members, fewer clubs, fewer events, fewer point of sale items ... So what exactly are they doing? It sure isn't the above.


Note 1: https://amablog.modelaircraft.org/na...s-update-0617/

Last edited by franklin_m; 11-14-2020 at 11:13 AM.
Old 11-14-2020, 11:21 AM
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LOL, I thought you were smart. You create a thread about how inaccurate and incomplete the AMA web site is and then in the same thread you use THE AMA WEB SITE as a reference. Chase you tail much?
Old 11-14-2020, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
LOL, I thought you were smart. You create a thread about how inaccurate and incomplete the AMA web site is and then in the same thread you use THE AMA WEB SITE as a reference. Chase you tail much?
Never once did I say every page on the site had issues. Nice try.

And yet again, you still won't back up your statement:
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
I'm also smart enough to figure out that the web site is but a fraction of what the IT department is responsible for.
Old 11-14-2020, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Many people would consider a successful Nats during a pandemic a win.
How many? Making baseless statements without quantifying is completely useless.
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
Your lack of interest in these events doesn't make them any less of a "win" for the organizations that make them happen.
And likewise, your interest in them doesn't make them any more of a win. See how that works? You are incapable of seeing both sides. Just yours, and that is all that matters! LOL
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
I will agree 100% that the web site is horrible. I'm also smart enough to figure out that the web site is but a fraction of what the IT department is responsible for.
Again, you aren't able to see the forest for the trees. The IT infrastructure for a small organization like the AMA is but a fraction of what other businesses are, yet the salary for the IT guy at the AMA is commensurate with others that manage much larger IT infrastructure. You just can't put together a factual argument based on YOUR feelings and beliefs. It might sound good to you, but it just doesn't hold any merit.

Astro
Old 11-14-2020, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
LOL, I thought you were smart.
Is this how you expect these threads to be productive? LOL Funny way to show it for one who constantly whines about thread degradation! You and worn-out-prop are two peas in a pod!

Just more logical fallacies instead of productive debate.

Oh, and we are all still waiting for you to expound on your (so far) baseless claims from above......

Astro

Old 11-14-2020, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
you fired back aggressively and sarcastically.
If you call Franklin's response aggressive and sarcastic, how would you categorize your own comments below?

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
You two Richards


Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
Asturd
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
I have to conclude that you would be as happy as a pig in slop ( pun intended ) of this ended up being an AMA member with a UAS thus giving you a stick to beat the AMA with. Now let's just sit back and see what the pig has to say next, we all know he can't leave this alone The pig has as much self control as a crack ***** on a Friday night.


Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
LOL, you know where the door is. Don't like it the get the hell out.
And that is just a few.....

OH, and then there is THIS one, that I have not actually seen him live up to his word on, even though he has been proven wrong countless times, including his incorrect statement above in this thread!

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
That being said, if I am wrong I will admit it.
I guess Speed thinks he can type whatever happens to fit his agenda at that moment.......

And remember, facts don't care about your feelings!

Astro


Old 11-14-2020, 05:30 PM
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Okay, Speed, let me throw this at you:
The AMA's IT department has maybe a dozen or so computers and maybe a server to deal with. The tasks involved using the above are basically:
  1. publish a magazine that's normally at least 6 months out of date
  2. maintain and update a website with timely information(something that normally doesn't happen)
  3. email financial reports and meeting minutes to the membership and IRS
  4. keep track of members, which have paid their dues, filed claims, sent in emails etc.
  5. install updates to the operating system and protective programs
Sounds to me like one person could do that in their spare time while working a second job.
Now, lets compare that to a truly large company, like where I work: The IT department has the following to do:
  1. maintain, update and monitor an intranet system that includes 10s of THOUSANDS of computers, THOUSANDS of routers and internet access to a majority of them across at least a dozen states and around the globe
  2. install updates to online specification books, documents and drawings needed to produce the products manufactured
  3. maintain, update and monitor a courseware library of 100s of THOUSANDS of documents used in training new employees and to administer tests used to recertify those that have been employed over a long term
  4. maintain, update and monitor the programs used by HR keep track of a workforce of well over 100,000 people across many states and around the globe, those applying to the company as well as the payroll system used to pay said employees
  5. maintain, update and monitor the programs used in ordering, tracking and shipping parts and supplies needed to build the products being sold
  6. maintain, update and monitor the programs used to send required reports and other documents to government agencies as required by law(can we say OSHA, FAA, state and federal Unemployment offices, IRS, etc)
  7. maintain, update and monitor the programs used in designing or updating designs of products used by THOUSANDS of engineers around the world
  8. maintain, update and monitor the protection programs used to protect the intranet from viruses, worms and unauthorized access by foreign rivals and hackers
Sounds to me like the AMA IT department is lazy, when you compare it to the IT department where I work

Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 11-14-2020 at 08:04 PM.
Old 11-14-2020, 08:09 PM
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So ... Still waiting until something substantively can be said about Rc flying and the new rules coming from the FAA. The only thing I know is that pilots
are balking at any new equipment or monitoring requirements with regard to drones.
Old 11-15-2020, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ECHO24 View Post
So ... Still waiting until something substantively can be said about Rc flying and the new rules coming from the FAA. The only thing I know is that pilots
are balking at any new equipment or monitoring requirements with regard to drones.
Unfortunately, the only people with substantive information about the RemoteID rule, are FAA and OMB. And the law prevents them from saying anything at this point in the rule making process. You can see what others are saying to them though. See links attached to post #1 here:
AMA met w/ OMB? Here's the rest of the story

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