AMA Bashing is Pointless
03-01-2021, 01:48 PM
#51
Senior Member
I don't know if that's good or bad. I know I have been accused of that in the other forum I have a membership in on more than one occasion. Was even told by a moderator that I had better stop posting or he was going to ban me as I was "annoying those that actually knew what they were doing". I didn't post anything for six months unless I had references I could quote at the end of my post. Funny thing was that annoyed them too 
03-01-2021, 02:14 PM
#53
I've heard a lot of that kind of stuff about RCG and JRCBD(a boating site). As the saying went, if you don't stick with the program, you won't be in the forum. How about we just leave that over at RCG and in the past. This thread has had a good conversation running, don't really want to see it die over what happened on a different site
03-02-2021, 07:21 AM
#54
Senior Member
I've heard a lot of that kind of stuff about RCG and JRCBD(a boating site). As the saying went, if you don't stick with the program, you won't be in the forum. How about we just leave that over at RCG and in the past. This thread has had a good conversation running, don't really want to see it die over what happened on a different site
flying fields. AMA membership may decline but this is a decades-long process. In the meantime, nothing is going to change with the AMA.
So you're left with the 90% of RC outside of AMA, 90% of which are drones. With the FAA in charge and Remote ID, what are you going to organize?
03-02-2021, 01:38 PM
#55
If you live in an congested area like the Northeast, you may find your options limited, but there is a lot of open land in this country where finding a place to fly that is not an AMA club is not that hard. This is especially true if you are flying light weight electric stuff that does not depend on a well maintained runway (which is growing in popularity every day, especially with the younger crowd).
Agreed, that was kind of my whole point.
As the old saying goes, necessity is the mother of all invention. The AMA greatly expanded and grew out of the need for people to have places to fly. People have a lot more options today and are less dependent on fixed flying sites with improved runways, so once us old farts who fly traditional model aircraft die off, the need for clubs and the AMA will greatly diminish. But as government regulation continues to evolve and increase it will drive the need for advocacy organizations and I am confident that such organizations will find their footing when it does.
Last edited by aymodeler; 03-02-2021 at 01:40 PM.
03-02-2021, 02:34 PM
#58
The AMA expanded and grew as the hobby grew with technological advances and as the American way of life became easier and we had more spare time and discretionary money to spend. During that expansion, the AMA DID grow with the hobby and did provide value to the modeler, helping to adapt the safety code, training outlines, competition organization and standardization, they successfully advocated on modelers' behalf by securing frequencies dedicated to flying RC when the FCC threatened to open up the bandwidths, etc, etc. The AMA had absolutely NOTHING to do with the development of the vast majority of existing flying sites, they were almost exclusively bought, leased and developed on the hard work and dollars of the individual clubs and their members.
Astro
03-02-2021, 02:44 PM
#59
In reality, insurance can be had for a reasonable price for all flying fields outside of the AMA. The more flying fields get together and develop a simple set of rules and adopt a safety code, the cheaper that insurance becomes. The insurance portion of our AMA dues accounts for a very small percentage of the dues, with the rest supporting Muncie facilities, staff and executive pay, the magazine, National events and teams, etc.
Astro
03-02-2021, 02:46 PM
#60
This is not true either.
The AMA expanded and grew as the hobby grew with technological advances and as the American way of life became easier and we had more spare time and discretionary money to spend. During that expansion, the AMA DID grow with the hobby and did provide value to the modeler, helping to adapt the safety code, training outlines, competition organization and standardization, they successfully advocated on modelers' behalf by securing frequencies dedicated to flying RC when the FCC threatened to open up the bandwidths, etc, etc. The AMA had absolutely NOTHING to do with the development of the vast majority of existing flying sites, they were almost exclusively bought, leased and developed on the hard work and dollars of the individual clubs and their members.
Astro
The AMA expanded and grew as the hobby grew with technological advances and as the American way of life became easier and we had more spare time and discretionary money to spend. During that expansion, the AMA DID grow with the hobby and did provide value to the modeler, helping to adapt the safety code, training outlines, competition organization and standardization, they successfully advocated on modelers' behalf by securing frequencies dedicated to flying RC when the FCC threatened to open up the bandwidths, etc, etc. The AMA had absolutely NOTHING to do with the development of the vast majority of existing flying sites, they were almost exclusively bought, leased and developed on the hard work and dollars of the individual clubs and their members.
Astro
I maintain that the AMA is probably not necessary for the continued growth at this point. Technologies have opened up that have made such growth more organic. However, the need for advocacy has not gone away and is likely only to increase. That was what I was trying to say.
03-02-2021, 02:47 PM
#61
The only reason that the majority of flying sites are affiliated with the AMA is for insurance. The majority of the ignorant and apathetic AMA membership believe that the AMA is the only option for insurance, and the AMA loves that dialogue, as it is the last remaining reason they have any relevance whatsoever.
In reality, insurance can be had for a reasonable price for all flying fields outside of the AMA. The more flying fields get together and develop a simple set of rules and adopt a safety code, the cheaper that insurance becomes. The insurance portion of our AMA dues accounts for a very small percentage of the dues, with the rest supporting Muncie facilities, staff and executive pay, the magazine, National events and teams, etc.
Astro
In reality, insurance can be had for a reasonable price for all flying fields outside of the AMA. The more flying fields get together and develop a simple set of rules and adopt a safety code, the cheaper that insurance becomes. The insurance portion of our AMA dues accounts for a very small percentage of the dues, with the rest supporting Muncie facilities, staff and executive pay, the magazine, National events and teams, etc.
Astro
03-02-2021, 02:55 PM
#62
Senior Member
I am not so sure. There are organizations like the FPV Freedom Coalition (https://fpvfc.org/) and Flite Test Community that could serve as the seed for something like this. I will grant that Flite Test Community seems to have lost some steam, but the overall FT organization has a lot of organizing muscle behind it and if that got leveraged, they could quickly expand. Any such organization would look very different than the AMA (but that is the whole point, isn't it).
Agreed, but there are also a lot of voices rejecting the club model all together. As you point out, the drone community does not rely on a fixed flying site, but there are increasing numbers of us "plank" flyers that are also turning away from club fields. Many are gravitating to smaller aircraft that can be flown from a soccer field or other open space. This is especially popular with the foam board crowd. I also know of a private group got together to lease their own flying site without an AMA charter (but I will grant that this is a rare ting).
If you live in an congested area like the Northeast, you may find your options limited, but there is a lot of open land in this country where finding a place to fly that is not an AMA club is not that hard. This is especially true if you are flying light weight electric stuff that does not depend on a well maintained runway (which is growing in popularity every day, especially with the younger crowd).
Agreed, that was kind of my whole point.
As the old saying goes, necessity is the mother of all invention. The AMA greatly expanded and grew out of the need for people to have places to fly. People have a lot more options today and are less dependent on fixed flying sites with improved runways, so once us old farts who fly traditional model aircraft die off, the need for clubs and the AMA will greatly diminish. But as government regulation continues to evolve and increase it will drive the need for advocacy organizations and I am confident that such organizations will find their footing when it does.
Agreed, but there are also a lot of voices rejecting the club model all together. As you point out, the drone community does not rely on a fixed flying site, but there are increasing numbers of us "plank" flyers that are also turning away from club fields. Many are gravitating to smaller aircraft that can be flown from a soccer field or other open space. This is especially popular with the foam board crowd. I also know of a private group got together to lease their own flying site without an AMA charter (but I will grant that this is a rare ting).
If you live in an congested area like the Northeast, you may find your options limited, but there is a lot of open land in this country where finding a place to fly that is not an AMA club is not that hard. This is especially true if you are flying light weight electric stuff that does not depend on a well maintained runway (which is growing in popularity every day, especially with the younger crowd).
Agreed, that was kind of my whole point.
As the old saying goes, necessity is the mother of all invention. The AMA greatly expanded and grew out of the need for people to have places to fly. People have a lot more options today and are less dependent on fixed flying sites with improved runways, so once us old farts who fly traditional model aircraft die off, the need for clubs and the AMA will greatly diminish. But as government regulation continues to evolve and increase it will drive the need for advocacy organizations and I am confident that such organizations will find their footing when it does.
03-02-2021, 03:12 PM
#63
Senior Member
Your objection brings up the best way to twist an AMA diehard into knots: say AMA fields are "sanctioned". They'll argue till
they're blue in the face that that's not the case. (AMA wants all the credit with no responsibility)
03-02-2021, 03:32 PM
#64
That only rings true for the few die-hard, outspoken AMA shills on the forums. As aymodeler noted previously, and as my experience has shown, if asked, the majority of AMA members at the field will state insurance as the first reason for being an AMA member. The AMA has done a good job distributing their Kool-Aid. Actually advocating for its membership? not so much.
Astro
Astro
03-02-2021, 03:49 PM
#65
Our hobby is how some choose to use excess money and time. Does anyone ever stop and ask, "Why? Why MUST we grow the hobby?" Who does growing the hobby serve? The AMA and the manufacturers, PERIOD.
I was drawn into this hobby for my love of all things aviation and the urge and ability to create something with my own two hands. Once I had built my first plane and took it to the club field, I also found the joy of camaraderie with others who share the same passion and that, also, became a "part" of the hobby for me. As my skills and knowledge progressed, I also found a passion for helping others to be successful and enjoy the hobby and that became a part of the hobby to me as well.
I don't think that my experience is a whole lot different than the majority of members, therefore, it is my conclusion and belief that it is the members' and the clubs' responsibility to be the avenue for "growth", or at least provide a positive environment for the beginner to engage and be positive ambassadors for our hobby where the general public is involved and it is the responsibility of the AMA to support that membership and those clubs in those endeavors, working on our behalf to advocate our great hobby to the powers that be in order to assure that we can thrive and continue to enjoy our flying privilege's as we have for generations. In that model, growth will happen organically, by attracting folks who are genuinely interested in and passionate about the hobby, not because, "I need insurance to fly", or because they want access to telemedicine, etc, etc. It insures that we have an active, interested and engaged membership, whether it be 100,000 or 1,000,000 strong.
just my humble $.02
Astro
03-02-2021, 03:53 PM
#66
Senior Member
That only rings true for the few die-hard, outspoken AMA shills on the forums. As aymodeler noted previously, and as my experience has shown, if asked, the majority of AMA members at the field will state insurance as the first reason for being an AMA member. The AMA has done a good job distributing their Kool-Aid. Actually advocating for its membership? not so much.
Astro
Astro
03-02-2021, 04:06 PM
#68
Which simply means that they send $$ to the mothership for insurance and are bound to follow the AMA safety code, which, let's face it, is only there for liabilities' sake, because we all know (and countless examples have been posted) that the AMA does not enforce it, they leave it up to the individual clubs, some of which take it more seriously than others.
And, before our hot-shot competition type jump in here and correct me, I should mention that it also allows said clubs to have, "AMA-sanctioned" events and contests.
Astro
And, before our hot-shot competition type jump in here and correct me, I should mention that it also allows said clubs to have, "AMA-sanctioned" events and contests.
Astro
03-02-2021, 04:18 PM
#70
Senior Member
Which simply means that they send $$ to the mothership for insurance and are bound to follow the AMA safety code, which, let's face it, is only there for liabilities' sake, because we all know (and countless examples have been posted) that the AMA does not enforce it, they leave it up to the individual clubs, some of which take it more seriously than others.
And, before our hot-shot competition type jump in here and correct me, I should mention that it also allows said clubs to have, "AMA-sanctioned" events and contests.
Astro
And, before our hot-shot competition type jump in here and correct me, I should mention that it also allows said clubs to have, "AMA-sanctioned" events and contests.
Astro
my guess is someone there thought the term "sanctioned" implied some kind of responsibility, something that AMA runs away from like a scalded cat.
03-02-2021, 04:41 PM
#71
There is no practical difference between "sanctioned" or "chartered" regarding clubs, legally or otherwise. I don't know where it came from in AMA but
my guess is someone there thought the term "sanctioned" implied some kind of responsibility, something that AMA runs away from like a scalded cat.
my guess is someone there thought the term "sanctioned" implied some kind of responsibility, something that AMA runs away from like a scalded cat.
Astro
03-02-2021, 05:19 PM
#72
Senior Member
03-02-2021, 06:01 PM
#74
Senior Member
It grew out of you correcting me on whether AMA had a monopoly on AMA fields. Just another exercise in semantics.
What I'm more interested in is what policies anymodeler thinks we need another RC organization for.
What I'm more interested in is what policies anymodeler thinks we need another RC organization for.
Last edited by ECHO24; 03-02-2021 at 06:04 PM.
03-02-2021, 06:09 PM
#75
As has been discussed at length, the common narrative is that, somehow, the AMA "owns" the clubs and the real estate they operate on. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The AMA exists BECAUSE of the clubs and members, not the other way around.
Astro