AMA Bashing is Pointless
03-03-2021, 07:45 AM
#101
Senior Member
In any case, I said ditched AMA and went on their own.
03-03-2021, 08:08 AM
#102
Senior Member
The same amount of clubs that own their property right now.
No it isn't. It is ignorant statements like those that will turn this discussion into a train wreck.
A known quantity? To whom? What does that have to do with insurance coverage? Please STOP with the fantasy statement stuff, it does not help this discussion at all.
WHAT? How is that one iota different than the reality right this moment?
Entrenched in what? apathetic members' minds? Please explain
AMA "covers" what? Please explain the specifics of, "all that", you have failed to name one thing that might fall under, "all that".
Astro
No it isn't. It is ignorant statements like those that will turn this discussion into a train wreck.
A known quantity? To whom? What does that have to do with insurance coverage? Please STOP with the fantasy statement stuff, it does not help this discussion at all.
WHAT? How is that one iota different than the reality right this moment?
Entrenched in what? apathetic members' minds? Please explain
AMA "covers" what? Please explain the specifics of, "all that", you have failed to name one thing that might fall under, "all that".
Astro
Other than that, great plan.
03-03-2021, 08:40 AM
#103
I do belong to a group that owns a flying field. We lease it to an AMA chartered club and are quite happy with the arrangements. I suspect that now the AMA has proven they offer no advantage or exemptions to its membership, that said club will be looking into other options. To answer your question (you would've seen where I posted this before, had you not just jumped on recent threads and started the same conversation that has been covered countless times), we were able to obtain a private, additional insurance policy that provides coverage at a reasonable cost. It only stands to reason that if more clubs were to pursue this, eventually they could group together to get even better volume rates. It is one of the reasons I endure these merry-go-round threads; to break down the paradigm that the AMA is the only option.
Astro
hope to be back soon.
03-03-2021, 11:19 AM
#105
Senior Member
Yep. Typical reply. Instead of acknowledging that I presented a reasonable approach for a club to go out on their own, you refute it by saying it hasn't been done. Instead, why don't you provide a reasonable statement as to why my proposal is unreasonable? Perfect example of logical fallacy type argument.
I do belong to a group that owns a flying field. We lease it to an AMA chartered club and are quite happy with the arrangements. I suspect that now the AMA has proven they offer no advantage or exemptions to its membership, that said club will be looking into other options. To answer your question (you would've seen where I posted this before, had you not just jumped on recent threads and started the same conversation that has been covered countless times), we were able to obtain a private, additional insurance policy that provides coverage at a reasonable cost. It only stands to reason that if more clubs were to pursue this, eventually they could group together to get even better volume rates. It is one of the reasons I endure these merry-go-round threads; to break down the paradigm that the AMA is the only option.
Astro
I do belong to a group that owns a flying field. We lease it to an AMA chartered club and are quite happy with the arrangements. I suspect that now the AMA has proven they offer no advantage or exemptions to its membership, that said club will be looking into other options. To answer your question (you would've seen where I posted this before, had you not just jumped on recent threads and started the same conversation that has been covered countless times), we were able to obtain a private, additional insurance policy that provides coverage at a reasonable cost. It only stands to reason that if more clubs were to pursue this, eventually they could group together to get even better volume rates. It is one of the reasons I endure these merry-go-round threads; to break down the paradigm that the AMA is the only option.
Astro
03-03-2021, 12:09 PM
#106
Through a local Insurance company. I'm not sure who the actual underwriter is.
Insurance companies will insure anything, they might not have an, "RC airplane" policy sitting on the shelf when you walk in, but most of them will likely draw one up, based on the odds their actuaries come up with.
Astro
Insurance companies will insure anything, they might not have an, "RC airplane" policy sitting on the shelf when you walk in, but most of them will likely draw one up, based on the odds their actuaries come up with.
Astro
03-03-2021, 12:23 PM
#107
Senior Member
Through a local Insurance company. I'm not sure who the actual underwriter is.
Insurance companies will insure anything, they might not have an, "RC airplane" policy sitting on the shelf when you walk in, but most of them will likely draw one up, based on the odds their actuaries come up with.
Astro
Insurance companies will insure anything, they might not have an, "RC airplane" policy sitting on the shelf when you walk in, but most of them will likely draw one up, based on the odds their actuaries come up with.
Astro
meaning it's free. An additionally insured certificate naming a property owner is $80 per year. A one-time event policy is $40. There is absolutely no
way a club could find coverage this cheap on their own.
You also call it an "additional insurance policy", so it would require getting a quote for a primary policy, if they even offered it, to find out the cost.
I didn't acknowledge your pitch as a reasonable plan because it is just hot air.
03-03-2021, 01:50 PM
#108
Through a local Insurance company. I'm not sure who the actual underwriter is.
Insurance companies will insure anything, they might not have an, "RC airplane" policy sitting on the shelf when you walk in, but most of them will likely draw one up, based on the odds their actuaries come up with.
Astro
Insurance companies will insure anything, they might not have an, "RC airplane" policy sitting on the shelf when you walk in, but most of them will likely draw one up, based on the odds their actuaries come up with.
Astro
So yeah, if the cash is there they sure will insure anything
03-03-2021, 01:50 PM
#109
last time checked,
a club of 50 members for a primary policy with site owners coverage, was less than 50 per member per year.
the hartford company.
this was 2010-2012 or so, as memory serves
a club of 50 members for a primary policy with site owners coverage, was less than 50 per member per year.
the hartford company.
this was 2010-2012 or so, as memory serves
Last edited by mongo; 03-03-2021 at 06:20 PM. Reason: grammer/spelling
03-03-2021, 02:15 PM
#110
Senior Member
"The annual fee to charter a club is $40. After it is chartered, your club will receive a certificate as proof of its chartered status with AMA.
The club charter year starts on March 31. This runs concurrently with the dates of the liability insurance coverage, which is provided at no
extra cost as a benefit to the club and the club officers."
"Flying Site Owner Insurance Coverage: Most property owners want to be assured that they are protected if they allow a chartered club to use
their property as a flying site, so they will ask for an insurance certificate that will name the property owner as an “additional insured.” This coverage
safeguards the owner if he or she is named in a claim because of an accident caused by an AMA member and/or club. Clubs can obtain this coverage
for the charter year or for specific event dates. There is a processing fee of $80/certificate for the charter year coverage or $25/certificate for specific
event coverage. Please complete this form and submit along with the appropriate payment.
The coverage provides up to $2,500,000 of primary liability insurance coverage to the flying site owner."
It is incredibly cheap. There is no way a club could find coverage like this on their own.
Last edited by ECHO24; 03-03-2021 at 02:18 PM.
03-03-2021, 09:57 PM
#112
Senior Member
03-04-2021, 06:24 AM
#113
LOL. Why the need to get snarky? Do all of you do that? It usually doesn't lead to beneficial conversations.
Here is what you said:
I asked for proof that there is, "no way" similar coverage could be found outside of the AMA and you cite an AMA document and allude that I am a, "gem"? C'mon, man!
Try again.
Astro
Here is what you said:
Originally Posted by ECHO24
There is no way a club could find coverage like this on their own.
I asked for proof that there is, "no way" similar coverage could be found outside of the AMA and you cite an AMA document and allude that I am a, "gem"? C'mon, man!
Try again.
Astro
03-04-2021, 06:48 AM
#114
Banned
One Non-AMA Source
03-04-2021, 07:47 AM
#115
Senior Member
It's pretty obvious that you simply have made little to no effort to look. Yet you make bold statements to what is or is not available. Not a typical MO for you. Maybe you should take a step back and re-evaluate.
One Non-AMA Source
One Non-AMA Source
astrohog is the one pitching the idea of clubs going on their own. Yet he won't even tell us what company issued their
"additional insurance policy" or how much it costs. I'm calling BS.
03-04-2021, 08:23 AM
#116
Senior Member
I've actually been looking yesterday and today for a company that provides RC flying insurance and came up with nothing.
Unless someone in you flying group owns the property or you are friends with the owner, you aren't going to find anyone
who will let you fly on their land without insurance.
Unless someone in you flying group owns the property or you are friends with the owner, you aren't going to find anyone
who will let you fly on their land without insurance.
03-04-2021, 08:27 AM
#117
Okay guys, enough already.
First off, I know low cost insurance can be obtained since I've had to do it for another organization.
Second, creating a new club can also be done, if enough people are willing to join, do the work and a suitable location can be obtained.
Just because the AMA says their rates are better than anything you can get elsewhere means nothing. When you add all of the other costs the AMA is billing the members for such as the magazine, museum, flying site most never see, grounds keeping, etc, even spending a few dollars more for the insurance would still be cheaper than all of the other costs.
First off, I know low cost insurance can be obtained since I've had to do it for another organization.
Second, creating a new club can also be done, if enough people are willing to join, do the work and a suitable location can be obtained.
Just because the AMA says their rates are better than anything you can get elsewhere means nothing. When you add all of the other costs the AMA is billing the members for such as the magazine, museum, flying site most never see, grounds keeping, etc, even spending a few dollars more for the insurance would still be cheaper than all of the other costs.
03-04-2021, 08:29 AM
#118
Senior Member
03-04-2021, 09:04 AM
#120
30 members at $75 for AMA + $40 for club charter + $80 for site insurance = $2370 each and every year for the "privilege" of having a club of 30 AMA members. Anything less than $2370 a year for insurance ... and the club members are ahead. As club grows in size, the savings is even larger. And that is money that could go into field improvements, land purchase funds, etc. Increase it to 100 members, and we're talking over $7600 each and every year.
So say it 30 members is the break even point. That means a club of 100 could bank over $5000 each and every year. That's more than any AMA field grants. And after six years, it's more than AMA gives in field grants in an entire year! What I hope members see is that the tithing to Taj-Muncie is really just sending them big dollars that go mostly to staff.
03-04-2021, 09:08 AM
#121
Originally Posted by ECHO24
astrohog is the one pitching the idea of clubs going on their own. Yet he won't even tell us what company issued their
"additional insurance policy" or how much it costs. I'm calling BS.
"additional insurance policy" or how much it costs. I'm calling BS.
I'm about done having conversations with folks who cannot conduct themselves in a mature manner, it is clear that you are just continuing to wave the AMA banner and be obstinate to anyone who opposes your shallow and unfounded opinions. I've been making a concerted effort to not engage in the petty name-calling and childish statements, but you just don't quit, do you?
Astro
03-04-2021, 09:13 AM
#122
Originally Posted by ECHO24
Unless someone in you flying group owns the property or you are friends with the owner, you aren't going to find anyone
who will let you fly on their land without insurance.
who will let you fly on their land without insurance.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was my impression that we've been discussing obtaining insurance other than what the AMA offers.
I'm starting to hear the echoes, now I know where you came up with your user name.
Astro
03-04-2021, 09:25 AM
#123
That's easier said than done. All that information I gave to the officers years ago, not sure if they still have it or if they are even still around.
Nope, was a dance organization where we had to set up everything from getting a location to hiring entertainers to getting insurance. As far as the insurance I have for boating, I get it through NAMBA so I would have to find out who they work with. I do know I pay them considerably less than what the AMA charges since we don't have any of the overhead the AMA has
Nope, was a dance organization where we had to set up everything from getting a location to hiring entertainers to getting insurance. As far as the insurance I have for boating, I get it through NAMBA so I would have to find out who they work with. I do know I pay them considerably less than what the AMA charges since we don't have any of the overhead the AMA has
03-04-2021, 09:57 AM
#124
Trying asking this guy for advice.
December 13 at 2:51 PM ·
Breaking news! Our FAA lobbyists had a great meeting this week and the final touches of one year of hard work has finally paid off for all of us !!!
COMING SOON !!!!
• PMA is Professional Modelers of America
NO DRONE ZONE !!!
• PMA is a model aviation organization, representing a membership who flies LINE OF SIGHT ONLY, from every walk of life, income level and age group.
• PMA is a self-supporting, non-profit organization whose purpose is to promote development of model aviation.
• PMA is an organization open to anyone interested in model aviation.
• PMA is the organizer of annual jet rally and Big Bird Airshows in combination with a full scale show held in Iowa, located on the old Aviation Expo grounds in August every year. Also will sanction any Fly-in For Chartered Clubs of the PMA in this Great Country with Full support and event $2,000,000.00 Primary Liability Insurance, plus FAA waivers when needed at full scale airports.
• PMA is the chartering organization and is actively working toward chartered fields all over this great country. PMA offers its chartered clubs official sanction, insurance, assistance in getting and keeping flying sites and flying
Site assistance. We will also be developing flying sites all over the United States for our members to use.
• Membership means you have a voice with PMA. We provide liaison with the Federal Aviation Administration. We plan on fixing the altitude and airspeed issue by working with the FAA and not against them.
PMA also works with local governments, zoning boards, and parks departments to promote the interests of local chartered clubs.
• For more information, contact PR Rep. Joel A Wilson/ Professional Modelers of America, 6010 Cliffland Rd Ottumwa, Iowa 52501. Contact number: 641-680-9375 email [email protected]
PMA VISION FOR THE FUTURE
We, the PMA will take model aviation into the future and protect this hobby from detrimental regulations and politics.
PMA will always have the ear of the modeler and help preserve the hobby for all ages and race in future model aviation. This will be our mission, and accomplice by the following:
• A partnership with leaders of the manufactures and government.
$2,000,000.00 PRIMARY LIABLITY INSURANCE
Making your current Field certified by the FAA and Protected!
• A clear understanding of the issues at hand and deal with them; listening to the member with an open mind.
• A leadership team that is aware and current on the hobby, and can respect the hobby and promote it to the youth of this great country. A leadership team that goes to events, and supports the PMA”s vision for the future vision for and the development of this hobby
PMA Mission Statement
The Professional Modelers of America was formed by modelers for modelers to: Promote, develop, educate, advance, and provide safety among modeling activities.
The PMA provides leadership, organization, communication, protection, representation, recognition, education and development of the future for modelers.
Professional Modelers of America
Joel A Wilson is with Gary Warren and 10 others.December 13 at 2:51 PM ·
Breaking news! Our FAA lobbyists had a great meeting this week and the final touches of one year of hard work has finally paid off for all of us !!!
COMING SOON !!!!
• PMA is Professional Modelers of America
NO DRONE ZONE !!!
• PMA is a model aviation organization, representing a membership who flies LINE OF SIGHT ONLY, from every walk of life, income level and age group.
• PMA is a self-supporting, non-profit organization whose purpose is to promote development of model aviation.
• PMA is an organization open to anyone interested in model aviation.
• PMA is the organizer of annual jet rally and Big Bird Airshows in combination with a full scale show held in Iowa, located on the old Aviation Expo grounds in August every year. Also will sanction any Fly-in For Chartered Clubs of the PMA in this Great Country with Full support and event $2,000,000.00 Primary Liability Insurance, plus FAA waivers when needed at full scale airports.
• PMA is the chartering organization and is actively working toward chartered fields all over this great country. PMA offers its chartered clubs official sanction, insurance, assistance in getting and keeping flying sites and flying
Site assistance. We will also be developing flying sites all over the United States for our members to use.
• Membership means you have a voice with PMA. We provide liaison with the Federal Aviation Administration. We plan on fixing the altitude and airspeed issue by working with the FAA and not against them.
PMA also works with local governments, zoning boards, and parks departments to promote the interests of local chartered clubs.
• For more information, contact PR Rep. Joel A Wilson/ Professional Modelers of America, 6010 Cliffland Rd Ottumwa, Iowa 52501. Contact number: 641-680-9375 email [email protected]
PMA VISION FOR THE FUTURE
We, the PMA will take model aviation into the future and protect this hobby from detrimental regulations and politics.
PMA will always have the ear of the modeler and help preserve the hobby for all ages and race in future model aviation. This will be our mission, and accomplice by the following:
• A partnership with leaders of the manufactures and government.
$2,000,000.00 PRIMARY LIABLITY INSURANCE
Making your current Field certified by the FAA and Protected!
• A clear understanding of the issues at hand and deal with them; listening to the member with an open mind.
• A leadership team that is aware and current on the hobby, and can respect the hobby and promote it to the youth of this great country. A leadership team that goes to events, and supports the PMA”s vision for the future vision for and the development of this hobby
PMA Mission Statement
The Professional Modelers of America was formed by modelers for modelers to: Promote, develop, educate, advance, and provide safety among modeling activities.
The PMA provides leadership, organization, communication, protection, representation, recognition, education and development of the future for modelers.
03-04-2021, 10:24 AM
#125
Senior Member
Maybe they couldn't get insurance.