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Keeping members in the dark, no EC agenda published

Old 04-09-2021, 03:27 AM
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franklin_m
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Default Keeping members in the dark, no EC agenda published

When a detailed EC agenda is not published well before meetings, it makes it impossible for members to contact their EC rep BEFORE he casts votes on issues. And even when they do publish agendas, note how they're devoid of meaningful detail? Note how some tell you to contact your EC member rather than make the issues public? How can you register your opinion on issues before the EC when they don't publish them, in detail, well in advance of the meeting.

There's two possible reasons. Incompetence or deliberate. Pick one. But I give them credit for some intelligence, so I contend this is deliberate. Why? Simple. When members have to go to extra effort to find out what's happening, most don't. The Dear Leader and the ED know this, which is how they use it as a tactic to keep members in the dark until it's too late ... after the EC has already voted ... and largely without input from members.

Why are they so afraid of doing publishing detailed agendas in advance? Make no mistake, this is one of the ways a small cabal at Taj-Munice controls AMA's millions in spending ... not the members.
Old 04-09-2021, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
When a detailed EC agenda is not published well before meetings, it makes it impossible for members to contact their EC rep BEFORE he casts votes on issues. And even when they do publish agendas, note how they're devoid of meaningful detail? Note how some tell you to contact your EC member rather than make the issues public? How can you register your opinion on issues before the EC when they don't publish them, in detail, well in advance of the meeting.

There's two possible reasons. Incompetence or deliberate. Pick one. But I give them credit for some intelligence, so I contend this is deliberate. Why? Simple. When members have to go to extra effort to find out what's happening, most don't. The Dear Leader and the ED know this, which is how they use it as a tactic to keep members in the dark until it's too late ... after the EC has already voted ... and largely without input from members.

Why are they so afraid of doing publishing detailed agendas in advance? Make no mistake, this is one of the ways a small cabal at Taj-Munice controls AMA's millions in spending ... not the members.
Only two reasons for any organization doing something like this. Either the management is incompetent which we've been told repeatedly they are not (but I'm not convinced). Or they're hiding something from someone. Maybe the members or maybe the government or maybe even both.

As the phrase goes, "It has been said that for evil men to accomplish their purpose it is only necessary that good men should do nothing."
So am I to now assume that there are no good men within the AMA?
Old 04-09-2021, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Retiredat38 View Post
As the phrase goes, "It has been said that for evil men to accomplish their purpose it is only necessary that good men should do nothing."
So am I to now assume that there are no good men within the AMA?
Oh, I don't know about that. There are a few on here that continue to post facts and try to have transparent discussions about the AMA. The AMA good ole boy club use tired rhetoric to try and discredit them by saying, "Why don't you do something about it". I say they are doing something by presenting the facts here for all to see.

Astro
Old 04-09-2021, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
Oh, I don't know about that. There are a few on here that continue to post facts and try to have transparent discussions about the AMA. The AMA good ole boy club use tired rhetoric to try and discredit them by saying, "Why don't you do something about it". I say they are doing something by presenting the facts here for all to see.

Astro
Astro, you stopped short on this. The "faithful" say "Why don't you do something about it" and then tell you why what you suggest won't work with no reason why. Worse yet, when the information does get put out, anyone that's considered an "outsider", like me, is told they can't know anything or to stay out of it because they aren't a member. Seems to me that telling someone to stay out of the conversation is very close to telling them they are not welcome in the organization and, as you called it, that "good ole boy" mentality is a good part of why the AMA is on the verge of failing. The other part(two parts making a whole in this case) is the fact that a majority of the members just don't care. For comparison, if you go to YouTube, you will find several NRA members that are speaking out about what the "Demonrats" and Joe Biden want to do about gun crime and the protection the Second Amendment gives to gun owners. They want to abolish the Second Amendment, ban any weapon that has over a certain amount of shells available or can be made semi or fully automatic. What they fail to realize is that a predominant amount of said gun involved crimes are committed with smaller weapons that are easily hidden and usually not of the rapid fire types. Granted, there are the occasional high profile shooting sprees that get all of the attention, but they are not the norm. Their solution is to make weapons illegal so that only active duty military, law enforcement and criminals will have them. Somehow, I doubt a state trooper, who's life was saved by someone driving by shot the person attacking the trooper with a pistol, would agree with that mentality. Had the person not intervened, killing the attacker, the trooper would be dead. Instead, the attacker is no longer a threat to anyone, the trooper is recovering from his injuries and the guy that saved the trooper is looked upon as a hero by many people. For some reason, that is the kind of story that the Biden administration, mainstream media and the Democrats in Congress don't want you to know about.

Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 04-09-2021 at 11:34 AM.
Old 04-10-2021, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
When a detailed EC agenda is not published well before meetings, it makes it impossible for members to contact their EC rep BEFORE he casts votes on issues. And even when they do publish agendas, note how they're devoid of meaningful detail? Note how some tell you to contact your EC member rather than make the issues public? How can you register your opinion on issues before the EC when they don't publish them, in detail, well in advance of the meeting.

There's two possible reasons. Incompetence or deliberate. Pick one. But I give them credit for some intelligence, so I contend this is deliberate. Why? Simple. When members have to go to extra effort to find out what's happening, most don't. The Dear Leader and the ED know this, which is how they use it as a tactic to keep members in the dark until it's too late ... after the EC has already voted ... and largely without input from members.

Why are they so afraid of doing publishing detailed agendas in advance? Make no mistake, this is one of the ways a small cabal at Taj-Munice controls AMA's millions in spending ... not the members.
Is there something particular you wanted to register your opinion on or were you hoping to see the agenda so you could register your opinion on an issue?
Old 04-10-2021, 08:52 PM
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Can we assume this is not detailed enough? Seems to be typical for an organization the size of the AMA.
Also, can anyone tell what the publish date was for the following agenda?

01/16/2021 EC Agenda

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING
January 16, 2021
VIRTUAL MEETING
1. Opening Business
2. Introduction of guests Additions to agenda Recognition of those who have taken the final flight
3. President’s Report R. Hanson
4. Executive Vice President’s Report R. Cameron Review replacement Update committee list
5. Chief Financial Officer’s Report K. Sessions
6. Executive Director’s Report C. Budreau
a. Annual Report
7. NAA Report G. Principato Lunch and Learn Executive Session
8. Old Business
a. Grievance process C. Budreau
b. Museum SLRP C. Budreau
c. 2021 World Championships R. Hanson
9. Committee Reports
a. Marketing/Membership E. Williams
b. Education J. Tiller
c. Museum Steering Committee E. Williams
d. Padcom R. Cameron
e. Government T. Dobbs
10. New Business Safety T. Stillman
11. Awards


R_Strowe
Old 04-11-2021, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by R_Strowe View Post
Can we assume this is not detailed enough? Seems to be typical for an organization the size of the AMA.
Also, can anyone tell what the publish date was for the following agenda?

01/16/2021 EC Agenda

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING
January 16, 2021
VIRTUAL MEETING
1. Opening Business
2. Introduction of guests Additions to agenda Recognition of those who have taken the final flight
3. President’s Report R. Hanson
4. Executive Vice President’s Report R. Cameron Review replacement Update committee list
5. Chief Financial Officer’s Report K. Sessions
6. Executive Director’s Report C. Budreau
a. Annual Report
7. NAA Report G. Principato Lunch and Learn Executive Session
8. Old Business
a. Grievance process C. Budreau
b. Museum SLRP C. Budreau
c. 2021 World Championships R. Hanson
9. Committee Reports
a. Marketing/Membership E. Williams
b. Education J. Tiller
c. Museum Steering Committee E. Williams
d. Padcom R. Cameron
e. Government T. Dobbs
10. New Business Safety T. Stillman
11. Awards


R_Strowe
All the details in the world are useless unless the agenda is posted in a timely manner. Meaning enough time prior to the meeting for members to review and express their concerns to their DVP. A few days or even a week is NOT enough even for an organization with nothing to hide. You allude to the timing issue but then go on like it doesn't matter.

On a side note, I wonder how many of those agenda points can be found word for word in pretty much every agenda? i.e. no real indication of what's to be discussed in any of it. So how does the membership really know what's to be discussed? As opposed to having to wait months to find out what WAS discussed. Assuming the minutes don't get sanitized in the process.

And before you ask, No! I do not trust them.
Old 04-11-2021, 02:12 AM
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I was thinking the same thing. Many of those subjects are continual so, as stated by Retired, it could be a repeat of December or, for that matter even July, with nothing more than the date changed. I've been a member of several organizations that use the same format, only adding to "new business" as required. As for if it's detailed enough, again, it doesn't really matter. Unless the person that sets up the meeting actually adds specific subjects to the schedule, anything could be talked about under any heading and no one, other than those attending, would know the difference
Old 04-11-2021, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by R_Strowe View Post
Can we assume this is not detailed enough? Seems to be typical for an organization the size of the AMA.
Also, can anyone tell what the publish date was for the following agenda?

01/16/2021 EC Agenda

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING
January 16, 2021
VIRTUAL MEETING
1. Opening Business
2. Introduction of guests Additions to agenda Recognition of those who have taken the final flight
3. President’s Report R. Hanson
4. Executive Vice President’s Report R. Cameron Review replacement Update committee list
5. Chief Financial Officer’s Report K. Sessions
6. Executive Director’s Report C. Budreau
a. Annual Report
7. NAA Report G. Principato Lunch and Learn Executive Session
8. Old Business
a. Grievance process C. Budreau
b. Museum SLRP C. Budreau
c. 2021 World Championships R. Hanson
9. Committee Reports
a. Marketing/Membership E. Williams
b. Education J. Tiller
c. Museum Steering Committee E. Williams
d. Padcom R. Cameron
e. Government T. Dobbs

10. New Business Safety T. Stillman
11. Awards
Titles of a topic tell people little. For example "Grievance Process." What do they propose changing? What will and won't be put to vote? Etc. How can members have an opinion on whether or not to support the change when AMA doesn't even give them an overview of proposed changes? Again, they do this so it's only AFTER the EC votes do members find out details.

Another example, "Education." Are they proposing a change to budget? Proposing change to priorities? What? Again, members know NOTHING until AFTER the EC votes. But as I've said, the cabal in Taj-Muncie does this deliberately to keep members in the dark. Every time they make it harder to get info, it has the effect of more people choosing to not make the extra effort. Therefore, fewer opinions contrary to what Hanson/Budreau want to do.

In the end, the EC voted on NINE motions. I count four (motions I - IV) that aren't even listed above. Two strategy items (V and VII) that will drive spending into the future. One (VI) to change policy. One to spend members money at Taj-Muncie (IX), and another of unknown long term financial impact (VIII).

And NOT ONE of them is readily knowable - in detail - until AFTER the votes were cast. It's deliberate - Hanson & Budreau deliberately keeping members in the dark.

Last edited by franklin_m; 04-11-2021 at 04:17 AM.
Old 04-12-2021, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Titles of a topic tell people little. For example "Grievance Process." What do they propose changing? What will and won't be put to vote? Etc. How can members have an opinion on whether or not to support the change when AMA doesn't even give them an overview of proposed changes? Again, they do this so it's only AFTER the EC votes do members find out details.

Another example, "Education." Are they proposing a change to budget? Proposing change to priorities? What? Again, members know NOTHING until AFTER the EC votes. But as I've said, the cabal in Taj-Muncie does this deliberately to keep members in the dark. Every time they make it harder to get info, it has the effect of more people choosing to not make the extra effort. Therefore, fewer opinions contrary to what Hanson/Budreau want to do.

In the end, the EC voted on NINE motions. I count four (motions I - IV) that aren't even listed above. Two strategy items (V and VII) that will drive spending into the future. One (VI) to change policy. One to spend members money at Taj-Muncie (IX), and another of unknown long term financial impact (VIII).

And NOT ONE of them is readily knowable - in detail - until AFTER the votes were cast. It's deliberate - Hanson & Budreau deliberately keeping members in the dark.
Another thought, at what point in this process does EVERYONE in the EC know the details? IOW how many of the EC are being kept in the dark as well?
Old 04-12-2021, 06:42 PM
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So,
Lots of chit-chat. Yet nobody can say when the agenda was published? What if it was published a week after the last EC meeting? Would that be satisfactory?

Does it need the detail of a Grisham novel? Would that be satisfactory?

Good lord, people. Spring is here. Enjoy the weather, go out and fly something. Forget about the AMA. Nobody but the nay-sayers here really care about the AMA’s issues.

Just go flying, people. Geez!

R_Strowe
Old 04-13-2021, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by R_Strowe View Post
So,
Lots of chit-chat. Yet nobody can say when the agenda was published? What if it was published a week after the last EC meeting? Would that be satisfactory?

Does it need the detail of a Grisham novel? Would that be satisfactory?

Good lord, people. Spring is here. Enjoy the weather, go out and fly something. Forget about the AMA. Nobody but the nay-sayers here really care about the AMA’s issues.

Just go flying, people. Geez!
Vague agenda entries that only superficially describe votes on millions in spending. Voting on significant items not on the agenda at all. And some still saying that we should just ignore this and go fly instead. Ignoring this lack of transparency in how millions in spending is "managed" ... outside the members' view ... creates conditions for mismanagement - or worse. But that fits, as the Taj-Muncie cabal views members as the "unwashed masses" - undeserving of details of how OUR money is being spent, undeserving of knowing what decisions they are making on our behalf until afterwards. Surely keeping us in the dark is warranted, they're doing such a great job managing that two decade constant decline in membership revenue (among other things).

"Just go flying." - Yeah, nothing to see here folks ... move along.

Last edited by franklin_m; 04-13-2021 at 08:02 AM.
Old 04-13-2021, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by R_Strowe View Post
So,
Lots of chit-chat. Yet nobody can say when the agenda was published? What if it was published a week after the last EC meeting? Would that be satisfactory?

Does it need the detail of a Grisham novel? Would that be satisfactory?

Good lord, people. Spring is here. Enjoy the weather, go out and fly something. Forget about the AMA. Nobody but the nay-sayers here really care about the AMA’s issues.

Just go flying, people. Geez!

R_Strowe
Hate to say this but if the EC can't tell the members what is actually going to be discussed with more detail than what was posted previously, they are obviously trying to hide the truth. This is where I'd be saying to my DVP that I want in on the meeting so I can hear what's going on. If they say no, I'd say refund my dues as I won't be part of an organization that's deliberately hiding what's going on from the members

Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 04-13-2021 at 06:48 AM.
Old 04-13-2021, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by R_Strowe View Post
So,
Lots of chit-chat. Yet nobody can say when the agenda was published? What if it was published a week after the last EC meeting? Would that be satisfactory?

Does it need the detail of a Grisham novel? Would that be satisfactory?

Good lord, people. Spring is here. Enjoy the weather, go out and fly something. Forget about the AMA. Nobody but the nay-sayers here really care about the AMA’s issues.

Just go flying, people. Geez!

R_Strowe
Yet here you are posting about issues in a forum that nobody except the nay-sayers care about. Narcissistic much?

Another fine example of, "Don't mind the man behind the curtain" or, "Do as I say, not as I do".

Regards,

Astro
Old 04-13-2021, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by R_Strowe View Post
So,
Lots of chit-chat. Yet nobody can say when the agenda was published? What if it was published a week after the last EC meeting? Would that be satisfactory?

Does it need the detail of a Grisham novel? Would that be satisfactory?

Good lord, people. Spring is here. Enjoy the weather, go out and fly something. Forget about the AMA. Nobody but the nay-sayers here really care about the AMA’s issues.

Just go flying, people. Geez!

R_Strowe
Actually your response shows perfectly why the AMA is in the financial straights it is in. You like so may members simply do not give a damn. As long as you can play with your toys you really don't care. And anything you might post here to the contrary is nothing more than blustering ego on your part.
Old 04-13-2021, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Hate to say this but if the EC can't tell the members what is actually going to be discussed with more detail than what was posted previously, they are obviously trying to hide the truth. This is where I'd be saying to my DVP that I want in on the meeting so I can hear what's going on. If they say no, I'd say refund my dues as I won't be part of an organization that's deliberately hiding what's going on from the members
But did you?
Old 04-13-2021, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ElectriMan View Post
But did you?
Hes not an AMA member and has said many times he would not join the AMA. A bytcher in the bush so to speak. Nothing of value to add. LOLļ

Last edited by Propworn; 04-13-2021 at 02:36 PM.
Old 04-13-2021, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Hes not an AMA member and has said many times he would not join the AMA. A bytcher in the bush so to speak. Nothing of value to add. LOLļ
Never mind.

Last edited by ECHO24; 04-13-2021 at 04:22 PM.
Old 04-13-2021, 07:27 PM
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ElectriMan,
As the "worm"(who is from Canada and not an AMA member though he thinks he is due to being a MAAC member and that his opinion is actually relevant) stated above, I'm not an AMA member. That said, would I actually do what I stated above? The answer to that is a very resounding YES!!!!!! In fact, I have done that very thing at another organization when I didn't like how the elected officials were running the organization.
Did it hurt said organization? Not really. What it did do is remove my contacts and ability to do things from the organization and the board, something that took several years for them to reestablish. Even to this day, I still get approached by some of the long time members asking me for help or input, only to be told that, when I left, my ability to assist left with me. I still have friends that are members and am in frequent contact but, if the subject of the organization comes up, I change the subject.
Old 04-14-2021, 04:45 AM
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