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50 days & no EC minutes? 7 days & counting to "proof?"

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50 days & no EC minutes? 7 days & counting to "proof?"

Old 12-07-2021, 07:33 PM
  #51  
speedracerntrixie
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Ok, tell me then just what do you think my narrative is.
Old 12-07-2021, 08:08 PM
  #52  
speedracerntrixie
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
I also don't turn toward "Taj-Muncie" regularly and chant "You are the most awesome of awesome toy plane flyers and we strive every day to be worthy of your profound management wisdom"


LOL, canít say you donít have an imagination.
Old 12-07-2021, 08:40 PM
  #53  
astrohog
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Ok, tell me then just what do you think my narrative is.
It would be easier for you to tell us, don't you think? I've already stated my opinions.

Astro
Old 12-07-2021, 08:45 PM
  #54  
speedracerntrixie
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
. Apparently not if the narrative doesn't align with yours.

Astro
This would indicate you know what my narrative is would it not? How else would you know what does and does not align?
Old 12-07-2021, 09:08 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
This would indicate you know what my narrative is would it not? How else would you know what does and does not align?
Oh geez. I'm not here to dance in circles. You went out of your way to use the descriptor "unsolicited advice" which reads that you view that as some sort of taboo, otherwise you would have simply said "advice".

If you don't like to be held responsible for the words you type, maybe you should use different words. Words that more clearly convey your true feelings.

Your little cat-and-mouse game is tiring. Either clearly convey your thoughts or have the respect to answer questions when someone may not be clear of your intent. it's called communication. It's not a game to see if you can bait someone into being silenced and banned.

Astro
Old 12-08-2021, 03:04 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
As usual you are the voice of reason. Yes Franklin posting information found on public records is perfectly safe. However when he makes disparaging comments towards Tyler, makes claims the the hobby is declining due to the failure of the AMA, states that the IT department is inept etc are the comments that have the potential to stir up same legal action. The problem is that damages have to be proven and that is a tough nut to crack. Still a warn letter from the AMA legal department would be a worthwhile thing IMO. The AMA has been known to waste money though right?
Hi Speed, All I want is for our AMA to conduct itself in a manner that is seen as above reproach, and I will say that for the most part I believe they do. My vision of what the AMA should be is, as Ronald Regan so famously put it when talking about our country thirty (ish) years ago, the "Shining city on the hill" with no flaws or lapses in it's core mission, to promote model aviation to the aviation interested. A bit of belt tightening is certainly in order WRT the financial and clerical sides and TBH I'd WAY rather see an outside firm handle the elections VS the "in house" method we use today, even if such expense comes at the risk of cost cutting elsewhere, so that there can be no suspicion of impropriety in our operations. In all, I believe my term "Squeaky clean" best describes what I'd like to see to preserve a reputation that has no room for doubt.
Old 12-08-2021, 03:53 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Hi Speed, All I want is for our AMA to conduct itself in a manner that is seen as above reproach, and I will say that for the most part I believe they do. My vision of what the AMA should be is, as Ronald Regan so famously put it when talking about our country thirty (ish) years ago, the "Shining city on the hill" with no flaws or lapses in it's core mission, to promote model aviation to the aviation interested. A bit of belt tightening is certainly in order WRT the financial and clerical sides and TBH I'd WAY rather see an outside firm handle the elections VS the "in house" method we use today, even if such expense comes at the risk of cost cutting elsewhere, so that there can be no suspicion of impropriety in our operations. In all, I believe my term "Squeaky clean" best describes what I'd like to see to preserve a reputation that has no room for doubt.
Thanks. All good points.

I am certainly not the only one to highlight AMA's problems with transparency. It comes up from time to time in these and other forums, and to date there's been little if anything done. In fact, our resident EC forum member has said precisely NOTHING in EC minutes about issues like these:

- In house counting of ballots by people with an interest in who wins. Why? A cost cutter on ballot could mean fewer jobs, therefore incentive for cost cutter to "lose" the count done by the in house vote counters.

- Lack of any meaningful detail on EC meeting agendas. Why? It makes it nearly impossible for members to be informed about issues to be voted upon, and therefore nearly impossible for them to influence their member to vote a certain way. It also ensures that members don't learn details until AFTER votes have been cast on issues. Enhances power of EC to decide w/o being "bothered" by the unwashed masses.

- President and EVP using official publication to disparage another candidate running for EVP position. Why? Using official levers of power to influence an election in which they have a vested interest.

- Slow posting of minutes from meetings. Why? Keeps members in the dark as to decisions made, especially when combined with meeting agendas that lack meaningful detail about issues to be voted upon in the meeting. And when they finally get around to addressing posting of minutes, they delay them even more - citing a reason that has not been mentioned even ONCE in meeting minutes going back 22 years to 31 January 1999 (I have them all in a single running file, did word search). So after 22 YEARs suddenly now it's now an issue? Yeah right.

- Obfuscated financial position. Why? Gives members a misleading (at best) or false (at worst) view of their financial trends - an important measure of the performance of the board, President, and the ED. We never see trends over time unless others post them using public data. They tout membership numbers, but never give breakdowns by type, and trends over time. They aren't clear about how much of every member dollar is spent on overhead. Etc.

- Attempt to use law to compel membership. Why? This was a high reward high risk strategy that deserved buy-in from the membership. Especially given that their plan failed - when FAA said in response to a question that they did not believe one must be a member to comply.

- Failure to operate credible Safety Management System. Why? Members do not benefit from LEADING safety metrics (flights behind flight line, crashes off property, crashes that just missed people / structures, or blatant rule violations ... like turbine flight over people). Pretending that these do not happen, thus keeping the lessons learned hidden from members, ensures that others cannot learn from them and prevent similar issues.

- Failure to address clubs / events known to create problems. This is the Fairview Flyers issue. Why? Clubs that have known history of flights over others, crashes on other property, etc. create bad press (at best) or legislative incentive (at worst) to control the rest of us who are indeed following the rules.

Among others...

Last edited by franklin_m; 12-08-2021 at 05:16 AM.
Old 12-08-2021, 05:17 AM
  #58  
speedracerntrixie
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So once and for all, Franklin, you have the right to voice those concerns. For the most part they are legitimate concerns. The problem with trying to force the changes you seek is that the membership at large simply does not care about 95% of this. For most members joining or renewing their AMA simply means they can go to any club field and fly and hang out with the guys. The secondary insurance gives them some feeling of security. That’s it. Most feel good about what they get for their $75. Until you get a certain percentage of the membership pushing for the same things as you, ghe changes are never going to happen. At this point your efforts are futile. After years of pushing you have the same few guys supporting you that you did at the beginning.

In regards to the rampant safety issues you claim, sorry but you are dead wrong. How many clubs have you been a member of that entitles you to make such a claim? The fact that you keep referring to the same single club ( out of over 2,000 ) when talking about safety issues leads me to believe that your claim is exaggerated. Especially since my 44 years of club membership and participation experience at over 40 different club sites says otherwise.

Our issues are when you misrepresent anything going on in the hobby such as the example above or when you belittle people who clearly have more experience with the hobby as you do. You demand that people respect your experience but do not give others the same courtesy. Then you break site rules as if they don’t apply to you. Your recent SterlingD account on a site where you have been banned demonstrated that quite well especially since you hold faced lied as SterlingD.
Old 12-08-2021, 06:02 AM
  #59  
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And once again, our resident junior security guard brings dirty laundry from another site and makes personal attacks. If someone did this to him, he would be all over the report button and urging moderation to have him banned. Silence and disparage those who speak the truth and disagree.

Astro
Old 12-08-2021, 10:36 AM
  #60  
mongo
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damn, astro, that was a great description...
Old 12-08-2021, 01:38 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
We’ve been down this road already. I agree with Franklin on this one. He has zero chance of ever being an AMA officer. Not possible to drive over a burned bridge.
Didn't a previous post - sorry discussion topic, "Another Example: Lack of Transparency" - mention low voter turnout? Generally low turnout means an easier to win election.
Old 12-08-2021, 02:24 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
I also don't turn toward "Taj-Muncie" regularly and chant "You are the most awesome of awesome toy plane flyers and we strive every day to be worthy of your profound management wisdom"
But you do expect and revel in the minions turning to you and in some of your own words chant "You are the most awesome of awesome and we strive every day to be worthy of your profound wisdom"

Last edited by Propworn; 12-08-2021 at 02:37 PM.
Old 12-08-2021, 02:36 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
That's what I thought......
Or lack there of........ Again nice cherry picking attempting to change the meaning of someone's post. Again here is the post where is a claim you refer to? Read the post in its entirety this time slowly if you must. Convenient you just happen to leave out the rest of the post attempting to change the meaning to suit your needs.

By Propworn
I did this I did that and yet has anyone actually seen any actual credit given to Franklin for these changes. Could it be these changes were already in the mix and Franklin took an opportune time to claim credit? I could be wrong however he wouldn't be the first to claim credit after the fact.

Gee wiz Franklin with all this wonderful work on behalf of the membership someone should nominate you for Leader and there you go the first step to President. How about one of the wingmen nominating him for leader?
Old 12-08-2021, 03:01 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Gee wiz Franklin with all this wonderful work on behalf of the membership someone should nominate you for Leader and there you go the first step to President. How about one of the wingmen nominating him for leader?
What's interesting is that one of the requirements of leader members reads as follows:
"In addition, I will coordinate with my district leadership when:
- Contacting local non-club members to determine if AMA is meeting their needs."

I'm not a club member, nor have I been for about a decade. And in that time not once -- EVER -- has a leader member contacted me "to determine if AMA is meeting [my] needs."

Interesting...
Old 12-08-2021, 03:22 PM
  #65  
astrohog
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Or lack there of........ Again nice cherry picking attempting to change the meaning of someone's post. Again here is the post where is a claim you refer to? Read the post in its entirety this time slowly if you must. Convenient you just happen to leave out the rest of the post attempting to change the meaning to suit your needs.

By Propworn
I did this I did that and yet has anyone actually seen any actual credit given to Franklin for these changes. Could it be these changes were already in the mix and Franklin took an opportune time to claim credit? I could be wrong however he wouldn't be the first to claim credit after the fact.
Oh, good Lord! Are you trying to say that by leaving off the, ďI could be wrongÖĒ part that it fundamentally changed the meaning of your post? LOL. The whole premise of your statement was that Franklin was possibly taking credit for something that was submitted by someone else. I asked if you had any evidence of someone else submitting said suggestion. No cherry picking, no changing narrative on my part, now step up and answer the question.

Do you have any evidence that someone else may have submitted said suggestions?

Astro
Old 12-08-2021, 05:29 PM
  #66  
speedracerntrixie
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
What's interesting is that one of the requirements of leader members reads as follows:
"In addition, I will coordinate with my district leadership when:
- Contacting local non-club members to determine if AMA is meeting their needs."

I'm not a club member, nor have I been for about a decade. And in that time not once -- EVER -- has a leader member contacted me "to determine if AMA is meeting [my] needs."

Interesting...

I would file that under the ď Burned Bridge ď category. Clearly you are on the AMA naughty list LOL.
Old 12-08-2021, 05:38 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
And once again, our resident junior security guard brings dirty laundry from another site and makes personal attacks. If someone did this to him, he would be all over the report button and urging moderation to have him banned. Silence and disparage those who speak the truth and disagree.

Astro
Typical Astro deflection right there. So do you and Franklin have a standing agreement that you are to be his press agent or did you just assume that position?

Letís talk about this other site business for a minute shall we? You continually bring up me trying to have people banned. Any evidence to back that up other then what Franklin has posted FROM A DIFFERENT SITE? It would seem that if you were to have your way some people are held to certain rules of engagement while others are not. You two stumble over one another so often itís like watching a game of drunk Twister.

Old 12-08-2021, 06:11 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
What's interesting is that one of the requirements of leader members reads as follows:
"In addition, I will coordinate with my district leadership when:
- Contacting local non-club members to determine if AMA is meeting their needs."

I'm not a club member, nor have I been for about a decade. And in that time not once -- EVER -- has a leader member contacted me "to determine if AMA is meeting [my] needs."

Interesting...
Perfect chance to show that you can do better!!!!
Old 12-08-2021, 06:18 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
Oh, good Lord! Are you trying to say that by leaving off the, ďI could be wrongÖĒ part that it fundamentally changed the meaning of your post? LOL. The whole premise of your statement was that Franklin was possibly taking credit for something that was submitted by someone else. I asked if you had any evidence of someone else submitting said suggestion. No cherry picking, no changing narrative on my part, now step up and answer the question.

Do you have any evidence that someone else may have submitted said suggestions?

Astro
Never said I had any evidence I am aware it happens, could it be possible well Franklin has never provided proof that he was the sole initiator of said changes even when asked..
Old 12-08-2021, 06:23 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
You two stumble over one another so often it’s like watching a game of drunk Twister.
Careful there Speedy there seems to be a very special bond between the two you might have to wrestle both of them at the same time. A one sided tag team.
Old 12-08-2021, 06:31 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Careful there Speedy there seems to be a very special bond between the two you might have to wrestle both of them at the same time. A one sided tag team.

LOL, not too worried. Anyone who needs to remain anonymous to talk like a big man isnít going to be much of a challenge.
Old 12-08-2021, 06:36 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
LOL, not too worried. Anyone who needs to remain anonymous to talk like a big man isnít going to be much of a challenge.
What if he steps on your plane when your wrestling
Old 12-08-2021, 06:39 PM
  #73  
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I get to build another. I realize that some think my whole life revolves around model airplanes but that is not reality.
Old 12-08-2021, 07:38 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Typical Astro deflection right there. So do you and Franklin have a standing agreement that you are to be his press agent or did you just assume that position?

Letís talk about this other site business for a minute shall we? You continually bring up me trying to have people banned. Any evidence to back that up other then what Franklin has posted FROM A DIFFERENT SITE? It would seem that if you were to have your way some people are held to certain rules of engagement while others are not. You two stumble over one another so often itís like watching a game of drunk Twister.
Your numerous posts about having others banned would suggest you collect those who you have reported like trophies.
Having others' posts flagged and points assessed literally within minutes of someone posting something you don't like.
As far as, "rules of engagement" go. That is your game to play. As far as I'm concerned, we are all adults here and need no moderation. I say what I mean and I will always be accountable to what I type. I mean, we are talking about written words on an internet forum, there can be no harm done with words unless your ego and self-esteem are really that fragile. I assumed we were all grown men, boomers if you will, not precious snowflake millenials that need to rely on moderators to protect us. You and prop on the other hand, try to be crafty and wordsmith your way around moderation in order to claim high moral ground and continually waffle on those statements when called out, only to hit the report button if you feel offended or find yourself on the losing end of a debate.

Astro
Old 12-08-2021, 07:39 PM
  #75  
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Oh, and I'm still waiting for you two chuckleheads to clarify your vague statements.....but I won't hold my breath.

Astro

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