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RDQ Lawsuit vs FAA - be careful what you ask for...

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RDQ Lawsuit vs FAA - be careful what you ask for...

Old 12-26-2021, 08:07 AM
  #26  
Propworn
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Init, I applaud your efforts but aren’t you forgetting comments such as “ Narcissistic, delusional, logical fallacies, 5 digit nobility etc”?
You noticed that too eh Speed quick to single out what he sees as transgetitions by one side but conveniently fails to mention any by his buddies.

Old 12-26-2021, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
You noticed that too eh Speed quick to single out what he sees as transgetitions by one side but conveniently fails to mention any by his buddies.

Yes, and we all notice how when asked to back up his accusations Astro resorts to his usual insults. He proceeds to accuse me of ď Revenge ď LOL, isnít that the whole basis of Franklinís years of anti AMA threads? Why do you think Franklin is so interested in my soaring club? Talk about blind devotion.
Old 12-26-2021, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Yes, and we all notice how when asked to back up his accusations Astro resorts to his usual insults. He proceeds to accuse me of ď Revenge ď LOL, isnít that the whole basis of Franklinís years of anti AMA threads? Why do you think Franklin is so interested in my soaring club? Talk about blind devotion.
No. The basis of Franklin's threads are called FACTS. Again, the mature adults in here recognize that.

Astro
Old 12-26-2021, 08:38 AM
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Ahh yes there is that blind devotion thing I mentioned.
Old 12-26-2021, 08:43 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Init, I applaud your efforts but arenít you forgetting comments such as ď Narcissistic, delusional, logical fallacies, 5 digit nobility etcĒ? In order to have peace and meaningful conversations BOTH sides need to drop the immature crap.
Hi Speed,

I truly do wish I had a "reset" button for the relationships that have been established here, and yes indeed this goes to all sides including some of my past behavior here. Over the past number of months I really have done my level best to "turn over a new leaf" and see everyone here as fellow model aviators who have personalities and concerns that come from different places, beliefs, and opinions. I will state here flatly and for the record that I disapprove of all forms of personal insult including "Narcissistic, delusional, logical fallacies and 5 digit nobility" , especially since I myself happen to be in this hobby long enough to be the holder of a 5 digit AMA number and certainly do not consider any of my actions here as rising to the level of nobility . I don't know if anyone has noticed but it's been months since I've referred to Denis as "The Worm" and likewise he hasn't thrown any jabs directly at me either (Since I don't consider my self anyone's "Minion" I don't take his use of that personally, I consider myself free to challenge as well as to agree with any of Franklin's posts that I see fit to, as in this very thread where I do not believe the privacy/overflight connection is of concern since the no overflight policy is fairly well entrenched already, at least at the club I belong to).

Now, If I had my way, to be King for a day, I'd decree that ALL of the past animosities be left behind, "Burying the hatchet" as it were (And no, NOT burying it in the backs of each other's skulls ) and everyone starts from new so that any point of discussion has to stand on it's own merits without the topic being degraded by the use of personal insults in an ill fated attempt to bolster one's view over another's. I am actually of the belief that if this were in person, if we were all at a nice flying field somewhere, that we would all be far friendlier to one another than what's portrayed in these on line discussions, and that this cordiality has to start somewhere. So, I have made it start with me because I believe our hobby and our hobby's premier organization deserves a far better public display than what's gone on here in this forum.

Guys, let's never forget that we aren't the only ones who read here, I'm sure this forum comes up a lot in the searches of people newly interested in our hobby, so please ask yourselves, is this really the way we want to present ourselves and our hobby to those interested parties?

Sorry for getting a bit long winded here, but I really wanted to lay out my feelings/opinion on how the interaction here has become so toxic...........
Old 12-26-2021, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
You noticed that too eh Speed quick to single out what he sees as transgetitions by one side but conveniently fails to mention any by his buddies.
Please see my above post........
Old 12-26-2021, 08:58 AM
  #32  
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Init, thank you for that post. I 100% agree in what you would like to see happen here. If you recall I took a good 8 months off from posting in this forum in hopes that things would change. It seems some here just thrive off the conflict, I suppose some could have the same perception of me, except maybe the fact that was capable of walking away for that amount of time. We should all be able to state our opinions without the discord, unfortunately the tone of breaking others down in order to minimize their opinion/experience was established years ago by Franklin. Others follow suit and this only leads people like myself to take a defensive posture. Like I told HJ yesterday that I had noticed a positive change in the way he interacted with me and I adjusted to him accordingly. I hope that you have noticed that as well. I feel that we all have something to contribute here.
Old 12-26-2021, 10:10 AM
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For the record, there were many conversations here over those last 8 months, without any discord. A critical thinker would look for the missing link and determine what is the root cause for the discord.

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon.

Astro
Old 12-26-2021, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Hi Speed,
I don't know if anyone has noticed but it's been months since I've referred to Denis as "The Worm" and likewise he hasn't thrown any jabs directly at me either
The past can be the past concentrating on the future is the way to change. You noticed all it took was a change in the tone of the posts and reciprocation in kind naturally happens.

In some cases an unnatural dislike may preclude any form of peace making and the behavior will continue unabated.


Last edited by Propworn; 12-26-2021 at 10:24 AM.
Old 12-26-2021, 10:31 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
The past can be the past concentrating on the future is the way to change. You noticed all it took was a change in the tone of the posts and reciprocation in kind naturally happens.
And that is, for real, most appreciated .

What I'd love to see from this point forward would be for us all to admit to ourselves that we have reacted badly in the past (myself included) , to unilaterally let go of any past animosities, and to respect ourselves and our hobby enough to not allow such interactions in the future. I'm truly willing to abide by the mutual respect ethos, and I believe everyone here are devoted enough in our hobby to maintain that respect.

If any one of our fellow posters here are ever in eastern Massachusetts, I welcome you to contact me to fly as my guest at the club I belong to

Old 12-26-2021, 10:37 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
And that is, for real, most appreciated .

What I'd love to see from this point forward would be for us all to admit to ourselves that we have reacted badly in the past (myself included) , to unilaterally let go of any past animosities, and to respect ourselves and our hobby enough to not allow such interactions in the future. I'm truly willing to abide by the mutual respect ethos, and I believe everyone here are devoted enough in our hobby to maintain that respect.

If any one of our fellow posters here are ever in eastern Massachusetts, I welcome you to contact me to fly as my guest at the club I belong to
That would be nice. Unfortunately, that truce has been tried numerous times. We all know the old saying; Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

Astro
Old 12-26-2021, 01:25 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
LOL, I would if I trusted your intentions. Helping you create issues for one of my clubs is not in the cards. I expect that if I asked you about your local club that is so poorly run or ask for your AMA number I would either get the same or perhaps no response at all.
Why do you need to know the name of a club of which I've not been a member for nearly a decade?
Why do you need to know my AMA number, especially given that even AMA doesn't require it to do a club search?

All I'm trying to do is verify what you are telling all of us. You posted a flying site in St. Paul OR, mentioned a lot of details about what happens there, how often, and specific rules. Yet when I search for clubs in St. Paul OR, I find none. And of the clubs nearby, none of them show this location as a flying site. As of now, all we know is a picture and one person's statement about what happens / has happened there. No way to independently verify.
Old 12-26-2021, 02:54 PM
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Last time I traveled from Detroit to the east coast with the camper and toy box with my planes. Most of the contact info including an address were the contact persons house address not the field itself. I had to contact someone and make arrangements to meet.
Old 12-26-2021, 03:09 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
For the record, there were many conversations here over those last 8 months, without any discord. A critical thinker would look for the missing link and determine what is the root cause for the discord.

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon.

Astro
Complete PS, I read many heated discussions that you were part of, it just happened that I wasnít a part of them. Please explain why if you were enjoying me not being around you and Franklin decided to troll me over several other threads?
Old 12-26-2021, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Last time I traveled from Detroit to the east coast with the camper and toy box with my planes. Most of the contact info including an address were the contact persons house address not the field itself. I had to contact someone and make arrangements to meet.
Perhaps, but all the clubs showing as close to St. Paul OR also had club websites/FB pages. I checked them for field locations, not AMA site. None show the one in the photo above.
Old 12-26-2021, 03:13 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Why do you need to know the name of a club of which I've not been a member for nearly a decade?
Why do you need to know my AMA number, especially given that even AMA doesn't require it to do a club search?

All I'm trying to do is verify what you are telling all of us. You posted a flying site in St. Paul OR, mentioned a lot of details about what happens there, how often, and specific rules. Yet when I search for clubs in St. Paul OR, I find none. And of the clubs nearby, none of them show this location as a flying site. As of now, all we know is a picture and one person's statement about what happens / has happened there. No way to independently verify.
LOL, you want me to provide you with information so you can verify something I said yet wonít provide information for me to verify claims that you have made? Why is that not a surprise? Keep in mind that although I may have misspoken or been wrong on occasion, unlike you I have not deliberately and intentionally lied on an R/C forum as you have.
Old 12-26-2021, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
LOL, you want me to provide you with information so you can verify something I said yet won’t provide information for me to verify claims that you have made?
This is indeed true I myself have asked you provide verification of your claims that you had instigated certain changes within the AMA and certain government agencies effecting changes to the modeling community. You refused to provide any in fact glossed right over the questions I asked of you. I don't see any difference if Speed doesn't care to elaborate. In fact he could use any of your past answers/tactics.

Franklin I believe in one of your previous posts regarding someone posting your AMA number you stated as of the 31st of this month it would be irrelevant anyways care to elaborate?

Last edited by Propworn; 12-26-2021 at 04:11 PM.
Old 12-26-2021, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
LOL, you want me to provide you with information so you can verify something I said yet wonít provide information for me to verify claims that you have made? Why is that not a surprise? Keep in mind that although I may have misspoken or been wrong on occasion, unlike you I have not deliberately and intentionally lied on an R/C forum as you have.
So what exactly does having my AMA number allow you to verify?
So what exactly does having the name of a club, where I haven't been a member for nearly a decade, allow you to verify?
Old 12-26-2021, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
So what exactly does having my AMA number allow you to verify?
So what exactly does having the name of a club, where I haven't been a member for nearly a decade, allow you to verify?

Doesnít matter. Just pointing out your hypocrisy. I see youíre not touching the lying part of my comment. Meaning you are the one that people need to verify your claims not I.

So letís turn the question around, What exactly does having the name of my club allow you to verify?
Old 12-26-2021, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
So what exactly does having my AMA number allow you to verify?
So what exactly does having the name of a club, where I haven't been a member for nearly a decade, allow you to verify?
It is a way to determine your valid membership. Even if you change your number we can see that you have renewed for another year.

Being a member gives you more credibility when you criticize the organization.

Knowing the name of the club where you are no longer a member would only have value if you were critical of the club.

Verification is worth a great deal if you are trying to hide something.
Old 12-26-2021, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
This is indeed true I myself have asked you provide verification of your claims that you had instigated certain changes within the AMA and certain government agencies effecting changes to the modeling community. You refused to provide any in fact glossed right over the questions I asked of you. I don't see any difference if Speed doesn't care to elaborate. In fact he could use any of your past answers/tactics.

Changes to AMA:
EC voted in favor of extending discounts to E5 and below after suggestion by me. Proof: AMA EC Minutes, 15 July 2017, item M and motion XIV.

Changes to government agency (in this case FAA) during NPRM regarding registration. If you recall, AMA's position was that members should either be exempt or be able to use their AMA number in lieu of regisration. FAA rejected both ideas, and in fact cited nearly word for word from my comment in their final rule.


NPRM comment I submitted: "AMA contends their administrative requirements make registration unnecessary. First, registration is inherently governmental. Second, the AMA guidelines do not have the force of law. Third, AOPA, BoatUS, & AAA do not register airplanes, boats, or cars (emphasis added)."


FINAL Rule under "N. Alternatives to Registration": "One individual stated that registration is an inherently governmental function that should not be ceded to any dues collecting organization. This commenter pointed out that neither the Experimental Aircraft Association nor the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association register manned aircraft (emphasis added)."

Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Franklin I believe in one of your previous posts regarding someone posting your AMA number you stated as of the 31st of this month it would be irrelevant anyways care to elaborate?
Because the number was going to be changed on 31 December. Either by administrative means, or by allowing my membership to lapse and joining later in the year and requesting a different number.
Old 12-26-2021, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Doesnít matter. Just pointing out your hypocrisy. I see youíre not touching the lying part of my comment. Meaning you are the one that people need to verify your claims not I.

So letís turn the question around, What exactly does having the name of my club allow you to verify?
1. Existence of the field
2. Verification of no-fly zones
3. Verification that they hold events as often as indicated in your comment
4. Any evidence supporting the enforcement you mentioned (as in scores for the events said to have been held)

How's that for a start?
Old 12-26-2021, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ElectriMan View Post
It is a way to determine your valid membership. Even if you change your number we can see that you have renewed for another year.

Being a member gives you more credibility when you criticize the organization.

Knowing the name of the club where you are no longer a member would only have value if you were critical of the club.

Verification is worth a great deal if you are trying to hide something.
As a taxpayer, I subsidize the AMA's 501c3 status through their income tax exemption. I'd argue that's much more credible when it comes to criticism than some silly member number. Ditto for the club.
Old 12-26-2021, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
1. Existence of the field
2. Verification of no-fly zones
3. Verification that they hold events as often as indicated in your comment
4. Any evidence supporting the enforcement you mentioned (as in scores for the events said to have been held)

How's that for a start?
1. picture previously posted
2. picture previously posted
3. take my word for it
4. records arenít kept, score sheets would only indicate a zero score not the reason for the zero
5. I donít have a track record of being a liar.
Old 12-26-2021, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
As a taxpayer, I subsidize the AMA's 501c3 status through their income tax exemption. I'd argue that's much more credible when it comes to criticism than some silly member number. Ditto for the club.
So why be a member at all. If there is no benefit to membership and all you want is to criticize, your taxes should be enough.

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