something that may need to be confirmed
03-21-2022, 06:22 AM
#26
I only paid $35 for the Electra at an R/C modeling expo several years ago. All of my plans are free downloads, other than my Kadets. That set came with a kit I bought and built back in 1985
03-21-2022, 06:33 AM
#27
Not sure if plans building is any cheaper. Balsa prices are through the roof. I’m thinking about making wing and stab molds for my pattern plane to reduce the amount of balsa. Right now they are balsa sheeted foam. By the time I get the foam cores delivered from the guy who CNC cuts them for me and then add in the balsa each wing set is close to $300. Two kits and the cost of wing molds breaks even.
03-21-2022, 08:40 AM
#28
I have built/assembled from plans/scratch, kits, ARF's just about everything out there. I have even built a vacuum table that fits my CNC Milling machine and have a clamp on adaptor that holds a palm router to CNC my own parts. The University team I coached and flew for used it to cut the parts for their designs for 9 consecutive years. Everything, and I do mean everything, depends on the skill of the manufacturer and the end user.
For example, these students have no previous experience building any RC model. With coaching and resources, this is what they were capable of.
I remember die cut kits were the only option unless you cut your own pieces. In some cheaper kits, as well as a few of the more expensive kits, the edges were crushed rather than cleanly cut. Sometimes it was necessary to hand cut the badly crushed parts from new balsa stock. Some early kits were simply printed on the balsa, and you cut them yourself. In this case, the end user was responsible for fit and finish. The quality of the balsa was another factor the end user had no control over, except to replace the balsa with better quality and cut new pieces. As an end user, the builder might weigh the ribs making up the wing and try and even out the rib weight between the right and left wing. I often replaced any heavy balsa in the tail section with lighter stuff if I could get it.
Scratch built was all on the end user. You got to pick the wood and controlled fit and finish, as well as the hardware used.
With a plans built one you had to be careful the plans were to size, for example I have had plans where the wing chord and length were not the same for both wings. Copied plans may shrink or grow in the copying process, one should completely check out all dimensions to make sure.
Kit built have all the inherent problems of all that passed before them. Crushed edges/parts from die cutting, supplied plans not right size, parts not the right size, wood quality etc. The worst in my opinion is the quality of the hardware supplied. Unfortunately, it is the end user that has to gain the experience to spot and rectify any imperfections. I cannot count the times someone on their first build complains that one wing is shorter than the other, or they have built two wings, either left or right hand.
At one time the big improvement was hand cut kits especially for larger models but depending on the manufacturer there were the same quality issues with weight and fit and finish, and you had to be prepared to fix any issues you found.
Next was CNC and Laser cut kits. CNC was more accurate, but suffers from the same issues of hand cut. Laser had an additional complication in the quality of the laser cutting. A charcoal edge does not glue very well, one must sand that off, giving rise to poor fit and finish.
As far as ARF's go there are even more opportunities for thing to go off the rails and price doesn't always guarantee a superior product.
Hardware is most often the biggest area where improvement can easily be made.
Experience Is the best teacher, be it self-taught or gleaned from others. Always room for input from others, some may be exceptional, others not so much. Use what you find helpful and ignore or offer the better solution if you have one.
Most often I like to cover an ARF in a different colour scheme, so I remove the covering prior to any assembly. You would not believe how much additional work can go into an airframe before I recover it. At present, I have an 80 plus inch Zlin with an extra long glass cowl. It's epoxy and looks to have been pulled from the mold too early and is badly distorted. Because it's epoxy I doubt it can be reshaped, but for the cost and looking at the construction I feel it's worth it even if I have to make a new cowl. It's a favourite of mine in a size I like, so I am willing to go the extra to get what I want.
For example, these students have no previous experience building any RC model. With coaching and resources, this is what they were capable of.
I remember die cut kits were the only option unless you cut your own pieces. In some cheaper kits, as well as a few of the more expensive kits, the edges were crushed rather than cleanly cut. Sometimes it was necessary to hand cut the badly crushed parts from new balsa stock. Some early kits were simply printed on the balsa, and you cut them yourself. In this case, the end user was responsible for fit and finish. The quality of the balsa was another factor the end user had no control over, except to replace the balsa with better quality and cut new pieces. As an end user, the builder might weigh the ribs making up the wing and try and even out the rib weight between the right and left wing. I often replaced any heavy balsa in the tail section with lighter stuff if I could get it.
Scratch built was all on the end user. You got to pick the wood and controlled fit and finish, as well as the hardware used.
With a plans built one you had to be careful the plans were to size, for example I have had plans where the wing chord and length were not the same for both wings. Copied plans may shrink or grow in the copying process, one should completely check out all dimensions to make sure.
Kit built have all the inherent problems of all that passed before them. Crushed edges/parts from die cutting, supplied plans not right size, parts not the right size, wood quality etc. The worst in my opinion is the quality of the hardware supplied. Unfortunately, it is the end user that has to gain the experience to spot and rectify any imperfections. I cannot count the times someone on their first build complains that one wing is shorter than the other, or they have built two wings, either left or right hand.
At one time the big improvement was hand cut kits especially for larger models but depending on the manufacturer there were the same quality issues with weight and fit and finish, and you had to be prepared to fix any issues you found.
Next was CNC and Laser cut kits. CNC was more accurate, but suffers from the same issues of hand cut. Laser had an additional complication in the quality of the laser cutting. A charcoal edge does not glue very well, one must sand that off, giving rise to poor fit and finish.
As far as ARF's go there are even more opportunities for thing to go off the rails and price doesn't always guarantee a superior product.
Hardware is most often the biggest area where improvement can easily be made.
Experience Is the best teacher, be it self-taught or gleaned from others. Always room for input from others, some may be exceptional, others not so much. Use what you find helpful and ignore or offer the better solution if you have one.
Most often I like to cover an ARF in a different colour scheme, so I remove the covering prior to any assembly. You would not believe how much additional work can go into an airframe before I recover it. At present, I have an 80 plus inch Zlin with an extra long glass cowl. It's epoxy and looks to have been pulled from the mold too early and is badly distorted. Because it's epoxy I doubt it can be reshaped, but for the cost and looking at the construction I feel it's worth it even if I have to make a new cowl. It's a favourite of mine in a size I like, so I am willing to go the extra to get what I want.
Last edited by Propworn; 03-21-2022 at 09:10 AM.
03-21-2022, 08:47 AM
#29
Prices may be through the roof but I doubt I'm going to find a kit for a 50cc Pitts 12 anywhere. Then again, I probably won't find one for the same size Katana or Edge either. Now, it's just a matter of getting the time to work on something since I've been pulling 12.5+ and 17 hour shifts for the past several weeks
03-21-2022, 09:01 AM
#30
Just gotta know where to look. The Pitts was pretty easy to find. The Edge and Katana a bit more difficult as they are not very popular these days.
https://www.daltonaviation.com/store..._PITTS_12.html
https://www.daltonaviation.com/store..._PITTS_12.html
03-21-2022, 09:41 AM
#31
My plans are slightly smaller at 68" span and length. I like that website for Dalton. I was looking at the DA 50 and mufflers for them. Was wondering where I'd find them, now I know
03-21-2022, 09:55 AM
#32
Edge 540, 27.4% Scale
03-21-2022, 10:11 AM
#33
I had one of the first Aeroworks ARC 36% Edges. I really liked it but ended up selling it. A buddy in California remembered how much I did like it so when he got one in a bundle deal he called to ask if I wanted it. To my surprise he gave it to me and dropped it off at my In-laws. I eventually arranged to have it transported up here. When someone gives you a free airplane, your kinda committed to finishing it. I have 4 flights on it now and have the thrust angles sorted out so I started painting the cowl. Not really happy with the paint quality I did on the hatch, I sanded it down to primer and here is how it looks as of now. Just need some good weather to shoot the clear. The other picture is the Edge from 1999.
03-21-2022, 11:23 AM
#34
Prices may be through the roof but I doubt I'm going to find a kit for a 50cc Pitts 12 anywhere. Then again, I probably won't find one for the same size Katana or Edge either. Now, it's just a matter of getting the time to work on something since I've been pulling 12.5+ and 17 hour shifts for the past several weeks
Good thing is, you are basically right down the road from me, so shipping wouldn’t be an issue!
Astro
03-21-2022, 12:37 PM
#36
If I brought home another toy, especially one that big, I'd be disowned by the wife. She's already having a hard time dealing with my building boats soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo……………...
03-21-2022, 01:58 PM
#37
Found a video of that setup on YouTube. Even with the Moki, this one looked a bit tail heavy. Even though it flew very light and very controllable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT08t2SIeLs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT08t2SIeLs
03-21-2022, 03:40 PM
#39
Where what went, the Electra or the carrier? BTW, the carrier is a 1/400 scale Enterprise(CVN-65), of which the full sized ship is sitting in Norfolk rusting while the Navy tries to figure out how to scrap it. Sad part is it's smaller than a 1/350 scale Essex(CV-9) that's sitting in it's box in the living room. Now, if I could only get the 1/350 scale Kitty Hawk(CV-63) that I have on order, I might be a happy camper
03-23-2022, 10:10 AM
#40
Not sure she's buying it though...
Last edited by franklin_m; 03-23-2022 at 10:20 AM.
03-23-2022, 10:24 AM
#42
Being we are in the Portland area, when the wife notices the new airplane I act offended on the airplane’s behalf and inform her in a stern voice that they Identify as a leaf blower.
Not really, the wife is fine with whatever I buy, she knows her and the kids come first.
Not really, the wife is fine with whatever I buy, she knows her and the kids come first.
03-23-2022, 12:19 PM
#45
I’m not exactly fitting in. No additional tattoos, zero piercings, natural hair color, live in an actual residence, and if I had a dog I certainly would NOT walk him at night while wearing all black. I don’t protest on the freeway, get confused about my gender or urinate on the sidewalk. I definitely don’t aspire to drive an EV because I’m too stupid to figure out that EV’s aren’t really better for the environment. Not fitting in but can’t deny the entertainment value of living in a Portland suburb.
03-23-2022, 12:33 PM
#46
03-23-2022, 02:26 PM
#49
I’m not exactly fitting in. No additional tattoos, zero piercings, natural hair color, live in an actual residence, and if I had a dog I certainly would NOT walk him at night while wearing all black. I don’t protest on the freeway, get confused about my gender or urinate on the sidewalk. I definitely don’t aspire to drive an EV because I’m too stupid to figure out that EV’s aren’t really better for the environment. Not fitting in but can’t deny the entertainment value of living in a Portland suburb.
- Refueling takes minutes instead of hours
- The alternator is constantly charging all batteries, both in the Tahoe and the trailer
- The distance I could go is much further pulling the additional load than what an EV could manage with present tech
- There are literally thousands of gas stations and truck stops along the highways across the country while there are few to no recharging stations in some parts of the country
03-23-2022, 02:30 PM
#50
