AMA getting above 400 AGL - Not so successful
06-28-2022, 12:20 PM
#351
Senior Member
I’ll assume you are still ignoring my request for where you came up with the statement that the FAA enforcement officers cannot confiscate drones came from?
And I’ll also assume that you are still choosing to disregard the quote from the FAA doc. That clearly establishes the difference between enforcement actions and enforcement?
Astro
And I’ll also assume that you are still choosing to disregard the quote from the FAA doc. That clearly establishes the difference between enforcement actions and enforcement?
Astro
Only 34 more to go.
06-28-2022, 09:02 PM
#353
Senior Member
Deflated.
Another one tenaciously disputed by our resident legal expert was the Michigan State Supreme Court ruling that drones represent a new and different
form form of surveillance (persistent surveillance, i.e., the ability to hover in close proximity) apart from previous rulings on aircraft surveillance, such that
in the case at hand the drone video was an invasion of privacy. It's been awhile but apparently the case is still ongoing. I haven't read the latest developments:
https://app.getresponse.com/view.htm...Sp1&z=EFRT96a&
Another one tenaciously disputed by our resident legal expert was the Michigan State Supreme Court ruling that drones represent a new and different
form form of surveillance (persistent surveillance, i.e., the ability to hover in close proximity) apart from previous rulings on aircraft surveillance, such that
in the case at hand the drone video was an invasion of privacy. It's been awhile but apparently the case is still ongoing. I haven't read the latest developments:
https://app.getresponse.com/view.htm...Sp1&z=EFRT96a&
Last edited by ECHO24; 06-28-2022 at 09:32 PM.
06-29-2022, 04:27 PM
#357
I’ve been staying away from all of this, and I’ll probably regret wading in here, but according to the FAA’s own statement:
"State and local Law Enforcement Agencies (LEA) are often in the best position to deter, detect, immediately investigate, and, as appropriate, pursue enforcement actions to stop unauthorized UAS operations. Although the FAA retains the responsibility for enforcing FAAs regulations, FAA aviation safety inspectors, who are the agency’s principal field elements responsible for following up on these unauthorized and/or unsafe activities, will often be unable to immediately travel to the location of an incident."
Historically, the FAA is also known to delegate responsibilities to other parties, such as ‘self-certification’ (Boeing, Lockheed, Piper, Raytheon/Beechcraft, etc).
R_Strowe
"State and local Law Enforcement Agencies (LEA) are often in the best position to deter, detect, immediately investigate, and, as appropriate, pursue enforcement actions to stop unauthorized UAS operations. Although the FAA retains the responsibility for enforcing FAAs regulations, FAA aviation safety inspectors, who are the agency’s principal field elements responsible for following up on these unauthorized and/or unsafe activities, will often be unable to immediately travel to the location of an incident."
Historically, the FAA is also known to delegate responsibilities to other parties, such as ‘self-certification’ (Boeing, Lockheed, Piper, Raytheon/Beechcraft, etc).
R_Strowe
06-29-2022, 05:44 PM
#359
It wasn't the process, it was how it was taken advantage of by the powers that be. The plane wasn't ready to fly and had KNOWN ISSUES before it was flown the first time. The powers that be threw a band aid on the problems, claimed it was good to go and told the FAA as much. With Boeing's history, the FAA felt they could take Boeing at its word, a mistake they won't make again for a long time
06-29-2022, 06:29 PM
#360
I’ve been staying away from all of this, and I’ll probably regret wading in here, but according to the FAA’s own statement:
"State and local Law Enforcement Agencies (LEA) are often in the best position to deter, detect, immediately investigate, and, as appropriate, pursue enforcement actions to stop unauthorized UAS operations. Although the FAA retains the responsibility for enforcing FAAs regulations, FAA aviation safety inspectors, who are the agency’s principal field elements responsible for following up on these unauthorized and/or unsafe activities, will often be unable to immediately travel to the location of an incident."
Historically, the FAA is also known to delegate responsibilities to other parties, such as ‘self-certification’ (Boeing, Lockheed, Piper, Raytheon/Beechcraft, etc).
R_Strowe
"State and local Law Enforcement Agencies (LEA) are often in the best position to deter, detect, immediately investigate, and, as appropriate, pursue enforcement actions to stop unauthorized UAS operations. Although the FAA retains the responsibility for enforcing FAAs regulations, FAA aviation safety inspectors, who are the agency’s principal field elements responsible for following up on these unauthorized and/or unsafe activities, will often be unable to immediately travel to the location of an incident."
Historically, the FAA is also known to delegate responsibilities to other parties, such as ‘self-certification’ (Boeing, Lockheed, Piper, Raytheon/Beechcraft, etc).
R_Strowe
Astro
06-29-2022, 07:44 PM
#361
Senior Member
I’ve been staying away from all of this, and I’ll probably regret wading in here, but according to the FAA’s own statement:
"State and local Law Enforcement Agencies (LEA) are often in the best position to deter, detect, immediately investigate, and, as appropriate, pursue enforcement actions to stop unauthorized UAS operations. Although the FAA retains the responsibility for enforcing FAAs regulations, FAA aviation safety inspectors, who are the agency’s principal field elements responsible for following up on these unauthorized and/or unsafe activities, will often be unable to immediately travel to the location of an incident."
Historically, the FAA is also known to delegate responsibilities to other parties, such as ‘self-certification’ (Boeing, Lockheed, Piper, Raytheon/Beechcraft, etc).
R_Strowe
"State and local Law Enforcement Agencies (LEA) are often in the best position to deter, detect, immediately investigate, and, as appropriate, pursue enforcement actions to stop unauthorized UAS operations. Although the FAA retains the responsibility for enforcing FAAs regulations, FAA aviation safety inspectors, who are the agency’s principal field elements responsible for following up on these unauthorized and/or unsafe activities, will often be unable to immediately travel to the location of an incident."
Historically, the FAA is also known to delegate responsibilities to other parties, such as ‘self-certification’ (Boeing, Lockheed, Piper, Raytheon/Beechcraft, etc).
R_Strowe
Sort of answers the question doesn't it, right in the text you quoted. Whatever the ultimate resolution, which may ultimately include no action at all
by the FAA, local law enforcement have authority to pursue enforcement actions on FAA regulations and frequently do.
06-29-2022, 07:52 PM
#362
Senior Member
06-29-2022, 09:11 PM
#363
I didn't spin anything. The words are right there. Apparently, you either can't or won't comprehend the words. It is not arbitrary, and can't be confused.
Context.
How many times do I have to say that the FAA clearly distinguishes enforcement actions and enforcement. Two completely different things.
Astro
Context.
How many times do I have to say that the FAA clearly distinguishes enforcement actions and enforcement. Two completely different things.
Astro
06-29-2022, 09:14 PM
#364
"Pack up your equipment or be cited" was the original comment I challenged with the statement, "Local LEO does not have the authority to cite you for FAA violations".
40 pages later my statement is still absolutely factual, anybody here have an issue with that?
Astro
40 pages later my statement is still absolutely factual, anybody here have an issue with that?
Astro
06-29-2022, 09:30 PM
#365
Senior Member
I didn't spin anything. The words are right there. Apparently, you either can't or won't comprehend the words. It is not arbitrary, and can't be confused.
Context.
How many times do I have to say that the FAA clearly distinguishes enforcement actions and enforcement. Two completely different things.
Astro
Context.
How many times do I have to say that the FAA clearly distinguishes enforcement actions and enforcement. Two completely different things.
Astro
that is, local law enforcement acting on behalf of the FAA, [who] "are often in the best position to deter, detect, immediately investigate, and, as appropriate,
pursue enforcement actions to stop unauthorized UAS operations", " in place of "principal field elements ... [who] will often be unable to immediately
travel to the location of an incident."
06-29-2022, 09:44 PM
#366
Senior Member
Edit: I would say, and invite R_Strowe his take, that an ASI ("principal field elements" in the quote) would NEVER respond to a drone complaint
short of extensive property damage or injury (very remote) or collision or interference with an aircraft (again almost never).
And for good reason. Drones are a piddly a__ issue compared to real aviation issues they have to deal with, as well as the fact the droniacs
don't have a pilots license to take action against. All they can do is issue a fine, which is about 1 in 1,000 my guess. The guy in the Frontier
Airlines/Vegas done incident said a guy he just met, "Frank" I think it was (first name only), was flying the drone - poof! No fine, nothing.
Last edited by ECHO24; 06-29-2022 at 10:13 PM.
06-30-2022, 05:48 AM
#369
Your first response was to claim that only FAA has the authority to enforce FAA regs. Now you’re backpedaling and stating that you were addressing my “ pack up or get cited “ statement.
However if we only look at my one statement there. The officer’s threat whether valid or not deterred me from continuing to fly. The word “Deter” is right there in the definition of enforcement that I posted a few days ago.
That said, nobody cares whether you are right or wrong here. If you were to just drop it, most likely would everyone else. I certainly would.
However if we only look at my one statement there. The officer’s threat whether valid or not deterred me from continuing to fly. The word “Deter” is right there in the definition of enforcement that I posted a few days ago.
That said, nobody cares whether you are right or wrong here. If you were to just drop it, most likely would everyone else. I certainly would.
06-30-2022, 07:29 AM
#371
Senior Member
Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
Stand your ground all you want, he couldn't have cited you for any FAA violations. That is reserved for the FAA.
Astro
There is no such thing as an "FAA citation". In the unlikely event it was an FAA Aviation Safety Inspector from a field office
he would take your information and, if necessary, open a case and start an investigation.
That would never happen. With drones and model aircraft it's going to be local police on the scene.
astro starring in his own episode of The Twilight Zone:
You're traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind.
A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination - A place where an
"enforcement action" is not "enforcement". That's the signpost up ahead—your next stop, the Twilight Zone!
Last edited by ECHO24; 06-30-2022 at 07:48 AM.
06-30-2022, 08:00 AM
#372
Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
Stand your ground all you want, he couldn't have cited you for any FAA violations. That is reserved for the FAA.
Astro
There is no such thing as an "FAA citation". In the unlikely event it was an FAA Aviation Safety Inspector from a field office
he would take your information and, if necessary, open a case and start an investigation.
That would never happen. With drones and model aircraft it's going to be local police on the scene.
astro starring in his own episode of The Twilight Zone:
You're traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind.
A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination - A place where an
"enforcement action" is not "enforcement". That's the signpost up ahead—your next stop, the Twilight Zone!
Stand your ground all you want, he couldn't have cited you for any FAA violations. That is reserved for the FAA.
Astro
There is no such thing as an "FAA citation". In the unlikely event it was an FAA Aviation Safety Inspector from a field office
he would take your information and, if necessary, open a case and start an investigation.
That would never happen. With drones and model aircraft it's going to be local police on the scene.
astro starring in his own episode of The Twilight Zone:
You're traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind.
A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination - A place where an
"enforcement action" is not "enforcement". That's the signpost up ahead—your next stop, the Twilight Zone!
We KNOW there was local LEO on the scene, nobody ever debated that. We KNOW that local LEO are likely to be the responders. None of that changes the fact that they do not have the authority to cite OR enforce FAA rules. PERIOD.
Keep spinning if you want, it won't change reality.
Astro
06-30-2022, 08:07 AM
#373
Senior Member
Now look who is spinning!
We KNOW there was local LEO on the scene, nobody ever debated that. We KNOW that local LEO are likely to be the responders. None of that changes the fact that they do not have the authority to cite OR enforce FAA rules. PERIOD.
Keep spinning if you want, it won't change reality.
Astro
We KNOW there was local LEO on the scene, nobody ever debated that. We KNOW that local LEO are likely to be the responders. None of that changes the fact that they do not have the authority to cite OR enforce FAA rules. PERIOD.
Keep spinning if you want, it won't change reality.
Astro
Unauthorized as in violation of FAA regs. It couldn't be more clear.
We are venturing into personality disorder land.
06-30-2022, 08:33 AM
#374
"State and local Law Enforcement Agencies (LEA) are often in the best position to deter, detect, immediately investigate, and, as appropriate, pursue enforcement actions to stop unauthorized UAS operations.
Unauthorized as in violation of FAA regs. It couldn't be more clear.
We are venturing into personality disorder land.
Unauthorized as in violation of FAA regs. It couldn't be more clear.
We are venturing into personality disorder land.
”the FAA retains the responsibility for enforcing FAAs regulations”
Why do you keep excluding this?
How do you spin that?
Astro
p.s. Are you going to provide support for your confiscation statement?
06-30-2022, 08:48 AM
#375
Senior Member
their field agents are often not able to immediately travel to the location.
I'll leave you to play your mental sandbox. This is a waste of time.