Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > AMA Discussions
Reload this Page >

AMA getting above 400 AGL - Not so successful

Notices
AMA Discussions Discuss AMA policies, decisions & any other AMA related topics here.

AMA getting above 400 AGL - Not so successful

Old 06-28-2022, 12:20 PM
  #351  
ECHO24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,344
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astrohog
I’ll assume you are still ignoring my request for where you came up with the statement that the FAA enforcement officers cannot confiscate drones came from?

And I’ll also assume that you are still choosing to disregard the quote from the FAA doc. That clearly establishes the difference between enforcement actions and enforcement?

Astro
There's no such thing as an "FAA enforcement officer".

Only 34 more to go.
Old 06-28-2022, 04:06 PM
  #352  
astrohog
My Feedback: (1)
 
astrohog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 3,345
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Old 06-28-2022, 09:02 PM
  #353  
ECHO24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,344
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Deflated.

Another one tenaciously disputed by our resident legal expert was the Michigan State Supreme Court ruling that drones represent a new and different
form form of surveillance (persistent surveillance, i.e., the ability to hover in close proximity) apart from previous rulings on aircraft surveillance, such that
in the case at hand the drone video was an invasion of privacy. It's been awhile but apparently the case is still ongoing. I haven't read the latest developments:
https://app.getresponse.com/view.htm...Sp1&z=EFRT96a&

Last edited by ECHO24; 06-28-2022 at 09:32 PM.
Old 06-29-2022, 03:19 AM
  #354  
Propworn
My Feedback: (3)
 
Propworn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,484
Received 30 Likes on 24 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astrohog
WOW besides someone referring to your posts as gass bagging you have described perfectly the total value of your posts on the subject mater. I'm glad you realized your net value.
Old 06-29-2022, 04:58 AM
  #355  
astrohog
My Feedback: (1)
 
astrohog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 3,345
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Propworn
WOW besides someone referring to your posts as gass bagging you have described perfectly the total value of your posts on the subject mater. I'm glad you realized your net value.
And all you've done is troll, troll! LOL

More projection from the good ole boy network....

Astro
Old 06-29-2022, 06:52 AM
  #356  
Propworn
My Feedback: (3)
 
Propworn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,484
Received 30 Likes on 24 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astrohog
And all you've done is troll, troll! LOL

More projection from the good ole boy network....

Astro
LOL is it really trolling when you're pointing out the obvious?
Old 06-29-2022, 04:27 PM
  #357  
R_Strowe
Senior Member
 
R_Strowe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Vermont
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

I’ve been staying away from all of this, and I’ll probably regret wading in here, but according to the FAA’s own statement:

"State and local Law Enforcement Agencies (LEA) are often in the best position to deter, detect, immediately investigate, and, as appropriate, pursue enforcement actions to stop unauthorized UAS operations. Although the FAA retains the responsibility for enforcing FAAs regulations, FAA aviation safety inspectors, who are the agency’s principal field elements responsible for following up on these unauthorized and/or unsafe activities, will often be unable to immediately travel to the location of an incident."

Historically, the FAA is also known to delegate responsibilities to other parties, such as ‘self-certification’ (Boeing, Lockheed, Piper, Raytheon/Beechcraft, etc).

R_Strowe
Old 06-29-2022, 04:42 PM
  #358  
Tailspin
 
Tailspin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Snohomish, WA
Posts: 124
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Talking

Yeah that "self certification" worked out great with Boeing on the 737 Max didn't it? LOL.
Old 06-29-2022, 05:44 PM
  #359  
Hydro Junkie
 
Hydro Junkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Marysville, WA
Posts: 10,534
Received 130 Likes on 123 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Tailspin
Yeah that "self certification" worked out great with Boeing on the 737 Max didn't it? LOL.
It wasn't the process, it was how it was taken advantage of by the powers that be. The plane wasn't ready to fly and had KNOWN ISSUES before it was flown the first time. The powers that be threw a band aid on the problems, claimed it was good to go and told the FAA as much. With Boeing's history, the FAA felt they could take Boeing at its word, a mistake they won't make again for a long time
Old 06-29-2022, 06:29 PM
  #360  
astrohog
My Feedback: (1)
 
astrohog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 3,345
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by R_Strowe
I’ve been staying away from all of this, and I’ll probably regret wading in here, but according to the FAA’s own statement:

"State and local Law Enforcement Agencies (LEA) are often in the best position to deter, detect, immediately investigate, and, as appropriate, pursue enforcement actions to stop unauthorized UAS operations. Although the FAA retains the responsibility for enforcing FAAs regulations, FAA aviation safety inspectors, who are the agency’s principal field elements responsible for following up on these unauthorized and/or unsafe activities, will often be unable to immediately travel to the location of an incident."

Historically, the FAA is also known to delegate responsibilities to other parties, such as ‘self-certification’ (Boeing, Lockheed, Piper, Raytheon/Beechcraft, etc).

R_Strowe
Old news. I've posted this at least a dozen times. Those that think they are trying to protect their "rep" cannot seem to comprehend due to their silly confirmation bias and fragile egos.

Astro
Old 06-29-2022, 07:44 PM
  #361  
ECHO24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,344
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by R_Strowe
I’ve been staying away from all of this, and I’ll probably regret wading in here, but according to the FAA’s own statement:

"State and local Law Enforcement Agencies (LEA) are often in the best position to deter, detect, immediately investigate, and, as appropriate, pursue enforcement actions to stop unauthorized UAS operations. Although the FAA retains the responsibility for enforcing FAAs regulations, FAA aviation safety inspectors, who are the agency’s principal field elements responsible for following up on these unauthorized and/or unsafe activities, will often be unable to immediately travel to the location of an incident."

Historically, the FAA is also known to delegate responsibilities to other parties, such as ‘self-certification’ (Boeing, Lockheed, Piper, Raytheon/Beechcraft, etc).

R_Strowe
"and, as appropriate, pursue enforcement actions to stop unauthorized UAS operations"

Sort of answers the question doesn't it, right in the text you quoted. Whatever the ultimate resolution, which may ultimately include no action at all
by the FAA, local law enforcement have authority to pursue enforcement actions on FAA regulations and frequently do.

Old 06-29-2022, 07:52 PM
  #362  
ECHO24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,344
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astrohog
Old news. I've posted this at least a dozen times. Those that think they are trying to protect their "rep" cannot seem to comprehend due to their silly confirmation bias and fragile egos.

Astro
You altered the bold text trying to spin it.
Old 06-29-2022, 09:11 PM
  #363  
astrohog
My Feedback: (1)
 
astrohog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 3,345
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ECHO24
You altered the bold text trying to spin it.
I didn't spin anything. The words are right there. Apparently, you either can't or won't comprehend the words. It is not arbitrary, and can't be confused.
Context.

How many times do I have to say that the FAA clearly distinguishes enforcement actions and enforcement. Two completely different things.

Astro
Old 06-29-2022, 09:14 PM
  #364  
astrohog
My Feedback: (1)
 
astrohog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 3,345
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

"Pack up your equipment or be cited" was the original comment I challenged with the statement, "Local LEO does not have the authority to cite you for FAA violations".

40 pages later my statement is still absolutely factual, anybody here have an issue with that?

Astro
Old 06-29-2022, 09:30 PM
  #365  
ECHO24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,344
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astrohog
I didn't spin anything. The words are right there. Apparently, you either can't or won't comprehend the words. It is not arbitrary, and can't be confused.
Context.

How many times do I have to say that the FAA clearly distinguishes enforcement actions and enforcement. Two completely different things.

Astro
Maybe if you read it 3 or 4 more times then maybe it will lodge inside your thick skull: "the FAA is also known to delegate responsibilities to other parties ...",
that is, local law enforcement acting on behalf of the FAA, [who] "are
often in the best position to deter, detect, immediately investigate, and, as appropriate,
pursue enforcement actions to stop unauthorized UAS operations",
" in place of "principal field elements ... [who] will often be unable to immediately
travel to the location of an incident."
Old 06-29-2022, 09:44 PM
  #366  
ECHO24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,344
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astrohog
"Pack up your equipment or be cited" was the original comment I challenged with the statement, "Local LEO does not have the authority to cite you for FAA violations".

40 pages later my statement is still absolutely factual, anybody here have an issue with that?

Astro
There is nobody who "cites you" for an FAA violation, dingbat. There is a complaint, an investigation, and months later you might get a letter.

Edit: I would say, and invite R_Strowe his take, that an ASI ("principal field elements" in the quote) would NEVER respond to a drone complaint
short of extensive property damage or injury (very remote) or collision or interference with an aircraft (again almost never).

And for good reason. Drones are a piddly a__ issue compared to real aviation issues they have to deal with, as well as the fact the droniacs
don't have a pilots license to take action against. All they can do is issue a fine, which is about 1 in 1,000 my guess. The guy in the Frontier
Airlines/Vegas done incident said a guy he just met, "Frank" I think it was (first name only), was flying the drone - poof! No fine, nothing.

Last edited by ECHO24; 06-29-2022 at 10:13 PM.
Old 06-30-2022, 04:00 AM
  #367  
speedracerntrixie
My Feedback: (29)
 
speedracerntrixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Happy Valley, Oregon
Posts: 9,524
Received 177 Likes on 152 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astrohog
"Pack up your equipment or be cited" was the original comment I challenged with the statement, "Local LEO does not have the authority to cite you for FAA violations".

40 pages later my statement is still absolutely factual, anybody here have an issue with that?

Astro
Moving the goalpost?
Old 06-30-2022, 05:04 AM
  #368  
astrohog
My Feedback: (1)
 
astrohog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 3,345
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
Moving the goalpost?
How so? Is that not how this circus started? If not, please feel free to set the record straight.

Astro
Old 06-30-2022, 05:48 AM
  #369  
speedracerntrixie
My Feedback: (29)
 
speedracerntrixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Happy Valley, Oregon
Posts: 9,524
Received 177 Likes on 152 Posts
Default

Your first response was to claim that only FAA has the authority to enforce FAA regs. Now you’re backpedaling and stating that you were addressing my “ pack up or get cited “ statement.

However if we only look at my one statement there. The officer’s threat whether valid or not deterred me from continuing to fly. The word “Deter” is right there in the definition of enforcement that I posted a few days ago.

That said, nobody cares whether you are right or wrong here. If you were to just drop it, most likely would everyone else. I certainly would.
Old 06-30-2022, 06:03 AM
  #370  
astrohog
My Feedback: (1)
 
astrohog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 3,345
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astrohog
Stand your ground all you want, he couldn't have cited you for any FAA violations. That is reserved for the FAA.

Astro
Sorry Speed, but this quote is from the beginning of May.

Keep on spinning.....

Astro
Old 06-30-2022, 07:29 AM
  #371  
ECHO24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,344
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astrohog
Sorry Speed, but this quote is from the beginning of May.

Keep on spinning.....

Astro


Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
Stand your ground all you want, he couldn't have cited you for any FAA violations. That is reserved for the FAA.


Astro


There is no such thing as an "FAA citation". In the unlikely event it was an FAA Aviation Safety Inspector from a field office
he would take your information and, if necessary, open a case and start an investigation.

That would never happen. With drones and model aircraft it's going to be local police on the scene.


astro starring in his own episode of The Twilight Zone:

You're traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind.
A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination - A place where an
"enforcement action" is not "enforcement".
That's the signpost up ahead—your next stop, the Twilight Zone!

Last edited by ECHO24; 06-30-2022 at 07:48 AM.
Old 06-30-2022, 08:00 AM
  #372  
astrohog
My Feedback: (1)
 
astrohog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 3,345
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ECHO24
Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
Stand your ground all you want, he couldn't have cited you for any FAA violations. That is reserved for the FAA.

Astro

There is no such thing as an "FAA citation". In the unlikely event it was an FAA Aviation Safety Inspector from a field office
he would take your information and, if necessary, open a case and start an investigation.

That would never happen. With drones and model aircraft it's going to be local police on the scene.


astro starring in his own episode of The Twilight Zone:

You're traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind.
A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination - A place where an
"enforcement action" is not "enforcement".
That's the signpost up ahead—your next stop, the Twilight Zone!
Now look who is spinning!

We KNOW there was local LEO on the scene, nobody ever debated that. We KNOW that local LEO are likely to be the responders. None of that changes the fact that they do not have the authority to cite OR enforce FAA rules. PERIOD.

Keep spinning if you want, it won't change reality.

Astro
Old 06-30-2022, 08:07 AM
  #373  
ECHO24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,344
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astrohog
Now look who is spinning!

We KNOW there was local LEO on the scene, nobody ever debated that. We KNOW that local LEO are likely to be the responders. None of that changes the fact that they do not have the authority to cite OR enforce FAA rules. PERIOD.

Keep spinning if you want, it won't change reality.

Astro
"State and local Law Enforcement Agencies (LEA) are often in the best position to deter, detect, immediately investigate, and, as appropriate, pursue enforcement actions to stop unauthorized UAS operations.

Unauthorized as in violation of FAA regs. It couldn't be more clear.
We are venturing into personality disorder land.
Old 06-30-2022, 08:33 AM
  #374  
astrohog
My Feedback: (1)
 
astrohog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 3,345
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ECHO24
"State and local Law Enforcement Agencies (LEA) are often in the best position to deter, detect, immediately investigate, and, as appropriate, pursue enforcement actions to stop unauthorized UAS operations.

Unauthorized as in violation of FAA regs. It couldn't be more clear.
We are venturing into personality disorder land.
Yes, you are!

”the FAA retains the responsibility for enforcing FAAs regulations”

Why do you keep excluding this?

How do you spin that?

Astro

p.s. Are you going to provide support for your confiscation statement?
Old 06-30-2022, 08:48 AM
  #375  
ECHO24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,344
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by astrohog
Yes, you are!

”the FAA retains the responsibility for enforcing FAAs regulations”

Why do you keep excluding this?

How do you spin that?

Astro

p.s. Are you going to provide support for your confiscation statement?
It literally says local law enforcement are often in the best position to enforce FAA UAS regs, the reason being that
their field agents are often not able to immediately travel to the location.

I'll leave you to play your mental sandbox. This is a waste of time.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.