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FAA administrative lapse causes US Capitol evacuation

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FAA administrative lapse causes US Capitol evacuation

Old 04-24-2022, 07:48 AM
  #51  
Hydro Junkie
 
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I read it as ANY AIRCRAFT, REGARDLESS OF SIZE
Obviously, a hand thrown kid's toy isn't going to be affected but anything that is powered or requires a powered source to get into the air is basically grounded. The AMA's notification specifically says control line and free flight, both of which are powered, to use their own judgement. In the case of the free flight, that would also probably include rubber powered. I just can't understand why this is so hard to figure out for the AMA officials and office staff?
Old 04-24-2022, 08:15 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
I read it as ANY AIRCRAFT, REGARDLESS OF SIZE
Obviously, a hand thrown kid's toy isn't going to be affected but anything that is powered or requires a powered source to get into the air is basically grounded. The AMA's notification specifically says control line and free flight, both of which are powered, to use their own judgement. In the case of the free flight, that would also probably include rubber powered. I just can't understand why this is so hard to figure out for the AMA officials and office staff?
Exactly. The correct answer to this is astonishingly simple:

- Stop sending emails at all. It keeps AMA being blamed for not notifying someone that should have been notified. That has the added benefit of building the correct habits, that being members take a modicum of initiative and check their own before they go fly.

- But if they absolutely can't help themselves Send the email to members w/ nothing more than a link to the actual FAA TFR and essentially say "read the TFR."

I just do not understand why AMA feels compelled to add words to an official FAA communication that are not there.
Old 04-25-2022, 04:36 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Does the FAA says that control line and free flight are permitted? They do not.
They do not,,, will someone get fined for flying a toy airplane on strings in their back yard or a FF that present zero danger to aviation? They will not

Can we have just a little common sense in this discussion,
Old 04-25-2022, 05:55 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by scale only 4 me View Post

Can we have just a little common sense in this discussion,
Very little of that in this forum Tom. Common sense demonstrates that the FAA put together a “ law “ that gives them prosecution power when some knucklehead films jets on final approach like what was done in Vegas. They have very clearly left traditional model airplanes alone. Most AMA club sites will become FRIAS which will not require RFID. Fly safe and no issues. Those outside FRIAS typically will be smaller models flown out of schoolyards and such that become difficult to see if flown over 400’ thus typically won’t be flown that high. Of course you being as active in the hobby as you are, I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know. That point is important IMO in this forum as the guys pushing the “law” are guys that aren’t very active or not active at all.
Old 04-25-2022, 07:54 AM
  #55  
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I think the biggest difference is that I've had flight instruction towards a private license and work with the FAA and it's regulations every day at work, Franklin was a naval aviator and Astro has a private pilot's license. We tend to look at things different than someone that doesn't have to deal with the FAA. When you consider the fact that the AMA is telling its members that they can ignore part of the FAR published by the FAA tells me they consider themselves "Above The Law"
Old 04-25-2022, 08:58 AM
  #56  
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Take a look at the recent Trevor Jacobs incident for a little insight to how the FAA acts. Not necessarily armed FAA officials waiting to cite offenders, and not necessarily swift action either. And this is what I would consider a “serious” infraction of the rules.

No matter what folks claim here, I think it is prudent that all modelers follow the rules all the time, lest a large hammer may be dropped on the entire hobby.

For speedy to apply his opinions as, “common sense”, is just ludicrous and rife with his typical logical fallacies. For instance, his assertion that “active” members’ opinions and “common sense” somehow hold more relevance than others’ ….

Astro
Old 04-25-2022, 09:47 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
I think the biggest difference is that I've had flight instruction towards a private license and work with the FAA and it's regulations every day at work, Franklin was a naval aviator and Astro has a private pilot's license. We tend to look at things different than someone that doesn't have to deal with the FAA. When you consider the fact that the AMA is telling its members that they can ignore part of the FAR published by the FAA tells me they consider themselves "Above The Law"

Hydro, I will remind you once again that my career includes employment with Lockheed Martin, L3, Aerojet Rocketdyne and currently Curtiss Wright. What makes you think I haven’t had to deal with FAA regulations/requirements as well as DCMA?
Old 04-25-2022, 09:55 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
Take a look at the recent Trevor Jacobs incident for a little insight to how the FAA acts. Not necessarily armed FAA officials waiting to cite offenders, and not necessarily swift action either. And this is what I would consider a “serious” infraction of the rules.

No matter what folks claim here, I think it is prudent that all modelers follow the rules all the time, lest a large hammer may be dropped on the entire hobby.

For speedy to apply his opinions as, “common sense”, is just ludicrous and rife with his typical logical fallacies. For instance, his assertion that “active” members’ opinions and “common sense” somehow hold more relevance than others’ ….

Astro

Never said that did I. Either you have a compression issue of your just an AH constantly looking for a fight. Reality is that guys who are more active in this hobby have more to loose then guys who just sit on their butts in front of a keyboard. I’m not just speaking about monetary losses but the time invested in honing our skills for events that are now at risk.

Since you guys like to cross talk so much I’ll throw a question for Hydro in here, imagine a government agency say fish and game decided that your boats were too fast and too loud and passed a law that said you now have a 30mph limit and had to stay under 85DB noise. Keep in mind that there will be nobody actively enforcing these limits. Are you just going to roll over and comply? Will the other guys you race with?
Old 04-25-2022, 10:06 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
This is good advice, I NEVER rely on third party information regarding government agencies and their operations, preferring to get my info "Straight from the Horse's mouth", as it were ....

Cue the "Mr. Ed" memes......

So, In keeping with my "Mr. Ed" ethos, I went and got my answer to the question of flying control line during TFRs straight from the FAA themselves. I apologize in advance for my atrocious photoshop skills, removing my Email address took a serious learning curve on my part, but I got it done



Old 04-25-2022, 10:07 AM
  #60  
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As I see it, the average "backyard mechanic" isn't allowed to work on a plane because there are processes that must be met. By the same token, someone that doesn't work with the FAA shouldn't be trying to tell others that the FAA documents only need to be followed to a certain point. That is exactly what the AMA did, telling the local members they didn't need to worry about all the restrictions on an FAR due to Air Force One flying into PDX. Sounds to me like the "powers that be" in Muncie are trying to get the flying fields shut down.
Old 04-25-2022, 10:46 AM
  #61  
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Well, Speed, we already have an 85db limit set by NAMBA and, as stated in our rules, we meet that or we can't run. As far as speed limits, we get our restrictions from the government agencies that gives us our permits to run. That being said, if we were to be limited to a top speed of 30mph, I'm pretty sure most would comply since all it would take is a setting change on our transmitters to make the adjustment. You see, Speed, we follow the rules or people get hurt.
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
What makes you think I haven’t had to deal with FAA regulations/requirements as well as DCMA?
Your unwillingness to follow an FAA published FAR when the AMA gives an incorrect notice that certain kinds of UAVs don't need to comply says a lot. If the FAA said to stop because a bridge is out and the AMA said do so if you want, would you stop? Your posts above say NO, the FAA doesn't know what they're talking about, that is until you drive off the edge and in to a ravine or river

Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 04-25-2022 at 10:59 AM.
Old 04-25-2022, 10:58 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Well, Speed, we already have an 85db limit set by NAMBA and, as stated in our rules, we meet that or we can't run. As far as speed limits, we get our restrictions from the government agencies that gives us our permits to run. That being said, if we were to be limited to a top speed of 30mph, I'm pretty sure most would comply since all it would take is a setting change on our transmitters to make the adjustment. You see, Speed, we follow the rules or people get hurt.

I call BS on both. We both know that people who compete are not going to dumb down on their event without pushback. I also know that most nitro boats are not using muffled pipes. A non muffled pipe is not going to meet 85DB. How about you post a picture of your boat with a muffled pipe?



Case in point, a very nice video. Quite possibly your boat club. I admit that on video noise levels are difficult to nail down but the pitch of the sound is not. These are a bit more high pitched then what you get through a muffled pipe.



Last edited by speedracerntrixie; 04-25-2022 at 11:07 AM.
Old 04-25-2022, 11:30 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Never said that did I. Either you have a compression issue of your just an AH constantly looking for a fight. Reality is that guys who are more active in this hobby have more to loose then guys who just sit on their butts in front of a keyboard. I’m not just speaking about monetary losses but the time invested in honing our skills for events that are now at risk.
I said you implied it, and you most certainly did.

Because you have difficulty conveying your actual thoughts, does not mean I have a, “compression” problem. LOL

As far as you calling me an *******, I will simply point out your hypocrisy and ignore it this time, but I won’t tolerate your accusations that I am the one to start in with the childish name-calling. It’s well documented that you do that when you can’t provide compelling support for the words you type.

Astro
Old 04-25-2022, 11:31 AM
  #64  
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Our club rules specifically state:
No boat may emit a noise level in excess of 90 decibels while at full throttle 50 feet from the measuring device
The NAMBA rulebook shows:
NOISE ABATEMENT
1. All boats must meet a maximum of 95dB measured by a dB meter placed 50 feet back from the shoreline.
2. For correct readings there should be no obstructions between the meter and the shoreline, the meter should not be set up under an awning or overhang, and the meter should not be handheld.
3. It will be up to the discretion of the Contest Director to disqualify a boat from a heat in which a boat was measured over 95 dB, or allow the driver to make the appropriate changes so as to meet the noise limit, and continue in the next heat. If the boat exceeds the 95 dB limit in the subsequent heat the driver will be disqualified, and be awarded zero points for both heats in question

Okay I was off by a few dBs. Regardless, the boats run under 85dBs as a general rule. Mine has a standard tuned pipe with a muffler behind it. My other pipes are all CMB quiet pipes, like the one linked below except with a black finish:
https://www.modelmarinesupplies.co.u...pC30010&cat=84
Old 04-25-2022, 11:33 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
I call BS on both. We both know that people who compete are not going to dumb down on their event without pushback. I also know that most nitro boats are not using muffled pipes. A non muffled pipe is not going to meet 85DB. How about you post a picture of your boat with a muffled pipe?



Case in point, a very nice video. Quite possibly your boat club. I admit that on video noise levels are difficult to nail down but the pitch of the sound is not. These are a bit more high pitched then what you get through a muffled pipe.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nhhvB4YbT8
Well, you can type whatever you wish, but it doesn’t make it factual.

Case in point, regarding your video. Sounded evil. What was the decibel reading? Certainly not proof of breaking the restrictions.

Astro
Old 04-25-2022, 11:37 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
I said you implied it, and you most certainly did.

Because you have difficulty conveying your actual thoughts, does not mean I have a, “compression” problem. LOL

As far as you calling me an *******, I will simply point out your hypocrisy and ignore it this time, but I won’t tolerate your accusations that I am the one to start in with the childish name-calling. It’s well documented that you do that when you can’t provide compelling support for the words you type.

Astro

Give it a break already. This solicit a certain response and cry the victim after receiving said response is getting old. All it does is show what a type of guy you are. I stand by what I say and OWN IT as opposed to hiding behind a screen name. Sad little man.
Old 04-25-2022, 11:40 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
Well, you can type whatever you wish, but it doesn’t make it factual.

Case in point, regarding your video. Sounded evil. What was the decibel reading? Certainly not proof of breaking the restrictions.

Astro

Now look who is being obtuse.
Old 04-25-2022, 12:00 PM
  #68  
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am i the only one that saw and read init's reply from the FAA about control line models?
Old 04-25-2022, 12:06 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Now look who is being obtuse.
look in the mirror.

Astro
Old 04-25-2022, 12:08 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Give it a break already. This solicit a certain response and cry the victim after receiving said response is getting old. All it does is show what a type of guy you are. I stand by what I say and OWN IT as opposed to hiding behind a screen name. Sad little man.
sad little man?

It’s my fault you called me an a-hole because I solicited it?

LOL

Astro
Old 04-25-2022, 12:10 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by mongo View Post
am i the only one that saw and read init's reply from the FAA about control line models?
I did. It completely aligned with Franklin’s post that was ridiculed by speedy….
Old 04-25-2022, 12:30 PM
  #72  
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That race video was from Ellensburg, June 27-28 of 2020, the only race we had that season. You might want to look up the definition of decibels, it has everything to do with volume of a sound and absolutely nothing to do with the pitch of that sound. Unlike your aircraft engines, our .67s run at 28,000 RPM no load so they will have a much higher pitch than a comparable OS .65AX, something that will only turn 16,000 RPM with no prop. Our props are also razor sharp to help them penetrate the water easier, some thing the aircraft props don't have to do. One more little tidbit, our boats weigh a lot more than a comparably engined aircraft. My boat weighs 14lbs, RTR, with 20 ounces of fuel, almost double what the manual for the .65AX calls for to run half as long while moving double the weight

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
I call BS on both. We both know that people who compete are not going to dumb down on their event without pushback. I also know that most nitro boats are not using muffled pipes. A non muffled pipe is not going to meet 85DB. How about you post a picture of your boat with a muffled pipe?

Case in point, a very nice video. Quite possibly your boat club. I admit that on video noise levels are difficult to nail down but the pitch of the sound is not. These are a bit more high pitched then what you get through a muffled pipe.
Hate to say it but you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about. All of the boats we race use either an inline muffler behind the pipe, a muffled pipe or are below 90dBs without a muffler. If you can't make that happen with an airplane, that's on you as we can and do do it. As far as slowing the boats down, it just makes it more of a "driver's race" than a race over who has the best set up or hottest engine. This is clearly illustrated with the Thunderboat class. All the boats have to use the same engine and meet dimensional requirements to be allowed to race

Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 04-25-2022 at 01:20 PM.
Old 04-25-2022, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mongo View Post
am i the only one that saw and read init's reply from the FAA about control line models?
Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
I did. It completely aligned with Franklin’s post that was ridiculed by speedy….

Thank You Mongo, I appreciate you mentioning my post. At some point it's gotta stop being about what has happened in the past between fellow members here, and instead become about how our organization is putting out dangerously misleading information to our fellow members. To be sure, I stop short of accusing the AMA of intentionally disseminating incorrect info regarding the TFRs, for all I know the AMA leadership does actually believe Control Line is kosher during a TFR, when in reality all it took was a simple Email to the FAA for me to verify that it is, in fact, verbotten. I didn't ask about free flight, mostly because I live no where near the wide open spaces needed for that endeavor, but if a plane that physically can't ever be more than 100' AGL is subject to TFRs, I can't imagine something that will fly higher than that, and uncontrolled to boot, would be OK with the FAA either.

PS, Kudos to the FAA, I sent them my Email yesterday, and got my return answer today, I wish all correspondence could be so timely ! .......

Last edited by init4fun; 04-25-2022 at 12:55 PM.
Old 04-25-2022, 01:09 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
That race video was from Ellensburg, June 27-28 of 2020, the only race we had that season. You might want to look up the definition of decibels, it has everything to do with volume of a sound and absolutely nothing to do with the pitch of that sound. Unlike your aircraft engines, our .67s run at 28,000 RPM no load so they will have a much higher pitch than a comparable OS .65AX, something that will only turn 16,000 RPM with no prop. Our props are also razor sharp to help them penetrate the water easier, some thing the aircraft props don't have to do. One more little tidbit, our boats weigh a lot more than a comparably engined aircraft. My boat weighs 14lbs, RTR, with 20 ounces of fuel, almost double what the manual for the .65AX calls for to run half as long while moving double the weight

There you go AGAIN assuming that I don’t know the definition of decibels. You and your boyfriend Astro really need to stop thinking that the two of you are smarter then anyone else. First off I know the tone difference between a muffled pipe and a non muffled pipe. If you would actually read and give my posts some thought instead of instantly trying to come up with something to debunk what I am saying you wouldn’t sound like such an idiot. The tone/pitch difference I hear in that video is the difference between muffled and non muffler pipe. There is no way in hell a non muffled pipe is going to make the 85DB that you originally claimed. Both of us have confirmed that NAMBA requires 95DB. A huge difference from what you originally stated. I do give you credit for correcting yourself though.
Old 04-25-2022, 01:10 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
I did. It completely aligned with Franklin’s post that was ridiculed by speedy….

Hey Asstool, where did I mention CL?

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