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RDQ & RemoteID: Appeals Court Decision

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RDQ & RemoteID: Appeals Court Decision

Old 08-04-2022, 10:27 AM
  #51  
astrohog
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Ah the ol "eatin ain't cheatin" defense, , , , , I couldn't believe he tried that with a straight face. Takes a well seasoned liar to look a grand jury in the eye and play cutesy with words like this.....

" Aug. 17: Clinton testifies to the grand jury for more than four hours on closed circuit television. He admits to “inappropriate intimate contact” but also says that he had given accurate evidence in January, arguing that, “It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is.”
yep, seems to be some confusion as to what a woman is too!

Astro
Old 08-04-2022, 03:52 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
With the exception of Spektrum all the manufacturers you query have low market share. I would have asked Futaba, JR and Jeti as there is more saturation in the US market.

I think though the obvious answer is the FAA have not furnished any specifications to the manufacturers. The question is why.
I thought I posted it, but if not here are the first companies I emailed asking about Remote ID modules:

Spektrum
Futaba
Jeti
Airtronics (Sanwa/Airtonics had no contact info)
FrSky
JR, now JR PROPO
Old 08-04-2022, 04:55 PM
  #53  
speedracerntrixie
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Not that it matters much but Airtronics is no more. Sanwa only makes surface systems. JR has always been JR Propo. Now owned by DeForce Aviation.
Old 08-04-2022, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Not that it matters much but Airtronics is no more. Sanwa only makes surface systems. JR has always been JR Propo. Now owned by DeForce Aviation.
I don't know if they are sold here but Sanwa does have air radios:
SANWA

You're right about JR Propo, This tidbit was in their announcement when they went under in 2018:

"RC-hobby especially the plane and heli-side of it is suffering at the moment. It is becoming more and more a hobby for older men,
junior-activity in many areas globally is non-existent if not totally dead."


Maybe BarracudaHockey can give AMA's latest membership numbers.

From that terse reply from HobbyKing I could picture half the staff there clearing out their desks. I complained about their response.
The question was did HobbyKing "plan" on selling Remote ID modules. We already know they aren't presently available.

Last edited by ECHO24; 08-04-2022 at 06:11 PM.
Old 08-04-2022, 06:04 PM
  #55  
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Sanwa must have started back up again, when Airtronics closed shop Sanwa made an announcement that aircraft radios were going to be no more. I take it as a good sign that they started back up.
Old 08-04-2022, 06:29 PM
  #56  
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AMain Hobbies shows this Sanwa/Airtronics 4ch radio and receiver for $777.99.
https://www.amainhobbies.com/sanwa-a...2071a/p1010121

Then this 6ch and receiver for $197.99:
https://www.amainhobbies.com/sanwa-a...30755a/p714320

Go figure.
Old 08-05-2022, 04:43 PM
  #57  
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This interview with Brendan Schulman is the most definitive take on Remote ID that I've found:
Old 08-05-2022, 05:44 PM
  #58  
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The scariest part about this is all of you who are perfectly fine with this. I still remember when all we had to do was get a FAA number and now we are here. Letting government in like this is always a bad deal for the people who aren't government.
Old 08-05-2022, 07:39 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Desertlakesflying View Post
The scariest part about this is all of you who are perfectly fine with this. I still remember when all we had to do was get a FAA number and now we are here. Letting government in like this is always a bad deal for the people who aren't government.
Nobody here is fine with it.



Old 08-05-2022, 08:22 PM
  #60  
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Reply from Radiolink.

Does Radiolink have any plans to sell Remote ID modules for RC model aircraft?

"Dear Sir
I'm sorry for the late reply to your message as I have a short business trip.
Regarding your question, I don't quite understand what you mean by "Remote ID modules"?
Is it a flight control used to help the plane fly easily?
Or the transmitter module inside the remote control?

Can you send me a picture of the item you're talking about or a link to buy it for me to take a look at?

Best Regards.
Carol"

Update. So I wrote back,

Thank you for getting back with me. RC aircraft in the US are now required by the FAA to comply with a Remote ID broadcast
standard to identify aircraft from the ground, via WiFi or Bluetooth signal able to be received by a cell phone. It can be integrated
or an add-on module, The deadline is September, 2023. Manufacturers planning on selling them would be making plans now.


"Thank you for this important information, can you send me the official FAA request URL for this Remote ID?
Then I'll have a discussion with our tech. Then reply with your solution.
Name:  cleardot.gif
Views: 161
Size:  43 Bytes
Carol"

So I sent the link:
https://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_star...20the%20FAA%20.

"The FAA emphasizes that although a means of compliance developed by a consensus standards body may be available, any
individual or organization can submit its own means of compliance for consideration and potential acceptance."

For at least 2 months there's been nothing stopping anyone from submitting an application. It's a few GPS elements broadcast by
WiFi or Bluetooth. Yet not a word from the dozen or so RC radio companies selling in the US.

Last edited by ECHO24; 08-06-2022 at 06:36 AM.
Old 08-06-2022, 06:11 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by ECHO24 View Post
Nobody here is fine with it.
Are you kidding?

There are literally HUNDREDS of pages here of prop, speedy and barracuda defending the AMA and saying that it is no big deal, we fly as we always have....

Astro
Old 08-06-2022, 06:16 AM
  #62  
speedracerntrixie
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I wouldn’t call what I do defending. More like keeping things in perspective. Like the comparing AMA with the rocket organization or boats. Neither of which has the same level of attention from DOD DOJ etc.
Old 08-06-2022, 07:04 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
I wouldn’t call what I do defending. More like keeping things in perspective. Like the comparing AMA with the rocket organization or boats. Neither of which has the same level of attention from DOD DOJ etc.
Of course you don't. LOL

We KNOW what YOU call enforcement as well...

Astro
Old 08-06-2022, 07:31 AM
  #64  
speedracerntrixie
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Obvious that you want to start up old arguments…..not playing your game.
Old 08-06-2022, 08:47 AM
  #65  
astrohog
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The only thing that is obvious is that we disagree. I cannot help it if you can't handle differing opinions.

Astro
Old 08-06-2022, 09:41 AM
  #66  
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I never said I was "fine with it"

I said the hobby as we know it isn't ending, that compliance is going to be relatively easy IF/WHEN the FAA ever gets their act together.
Old 08-06-2022, 10:13 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
I never said I was "fine with it"

I said the hobby as we know it isn't ending, that compliance is going to be relatively easy IF/WHEN the FAA ever gets their act together.
Nobody said that you said that.

Astro
Old 08-06-2022, 11:14 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
I never said I was "fine with it"

I said the hobby as we know it isn't ending, that compliance is going to be relatively easy IF/WHEN the FAA ever gets their act together.
Apparently you didn't read the FAA page I posted. At least since June 1 anyone with the ability to make modules could apply for a means of compliance.
It ain't rocket science, The ASTM standard is out. Anyone can wait around for someone else's MOC to be accepted and use that, but it's not necessary.

As for "the hobby as we know it", this is from JR Propo when they went out of business in 2018: "RC-hobby especially the plane and heli-side of it is
suffering at the moment. It is becoming more and more a hobby for older men, junior-activity in many areas globally is non-existent if not totally dead."
(2018 was when 336 was thrown out and Remote ID was mandated by law.)

The hobby might not end for "older men" (until they can't see to fly) but it's going to end, unless you're saying none of this is effecting AMA.

There's actually a dedicated RC field where I live in Mexico. No one is ever there. A friend knew one of the guys who started the field and gave me his
number. I thought great, someone to fly with. I called him. He has cataracts and can't see well enough to fly. He's having surgery this summer, so it's a
maybe when I get back in the fall that I'll have a flying partner.

So you're saying none of this is having an effect on AMA?




Last edited by ECHO24; 08-06-2022 at 11:35 AM.
Old 08-06-2022, 12:24 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
I never said I was "fine with it"

I said the hobby as we know it isn't ending, that compliance is going to be relatively easy IF/WHEN the FAA ever gets their act together.
It's not "if" there's something ugly, but rather when. One thing that's as constant as the North Star is the lack of flight discipline by the turbine community. The AMA list of revoked turbine waivers is now and has been blank for several years (I check regularly). And yet lack of flight discipline by waiver community that it's been the subject of EC discussion not once but twice. All this shows is that EC knows it's happening but won't hold anyone accountable. And why? JPO said the quiet part out loud: "Not drive away members."

Turns out the Pennsylvania trial court judge hit the nail on the head: "The record clearly demonstrates that the speed, size and weight of the model airplanes and jets have increased over the past five decades to characteristics where safety needs to be the primary concern. When the Club restarted its recreational activities in 2007, the scope of its use rapidly grew to include larger, heavier and louder model planes and jets. The record is replete with testimony … evidencing the Club’s inability to ensure the safety of [Landowners’] neighbors and the public at large. There have been numerous complaints, crashes, and trespasses by Club members retrieving fallen parts from neighboring land. The Club’s actions are increasingly putting residents, workers, livestock, buildings, equipment, and crops in threatening situations.”

Which was affirmed by the Superior Court which affirmed that the club’s activities would “be detrimental to the public health, safety and general welfare” of neighboring properties.
Old 08-06-2022, 02:41 PM
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Franklin, you would know but I tried looking for AMA's most recent 990's and it appears they are late. That JR Propo statement in 2018 that
"junior-activity in many areas globally is non-existent if not totally dead" has to have have impacted AMA. Even though Barracuddahockey won't
say, FAA total drone registrations
fell from 1,746,248 to 873,144” between December 2020 and January 2021, a 50% drop. That's huge.

Is Barracuddahockey trying to explain away what is a coming disaster for AMA?



Old 08-06-2022, 04:11 PM
  #71  
robert waldo
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Took my old Four Star and put a bellcrank in it. Forgot how much fun control line is.
Old 08-07-2022, 02:59 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by ECHO24 View Post
Franklin, you would know but I tried looking for AMA's most recent 990's and it appears they are late. That JR Propo statement in 2018 that
"junior-activity in many areas globally is non-existent if not totally dead" has to have have impacted AMA. Even though Barracuddahockey won't
say, FAA total drone registrations
fell from 1,746,248 to 873,144” between December 2020 and January 2021, a 50% drop. That's huge.

Is Barracuddahockey trying to explain away what is a coming disaster for AMA?
There's three ways to get 990s for any organization:
- Ask them. Under IRS rules, they have to provide a copy within a specified amount of time. Downside is they can charge you for it. Now that said, if you're asking for a pdf copy (as simple as hitting "print pdf" from their software), the cost is truly de minimis. Organizations committed to transparency will do this PDF for free. AMA will not. That should tell you something.

- Wait until published by interest groups. There's a number of organizations out there that get the IRS huge xml files and then using software turn those into something that looks pretty much identical to the output from the pdf print above. The problem with this is that it sometimes takes 2 years to get them.

- Third method is to get them from AMA's site. The problem with that is that AMA can probably call it releasing proprietary information (crazy I know given they're public documents), but since you're getting it from behind a password protected gateway, they may have a case. The fact that AMA keeps their 990s hidden from the public in this way should also tell you something.

And lastly, you're right. The fact that they're late even posting to their own website is noteworthy. Their fiscal year runs coincident with the calendar year, so their taxes are normally due 90 days after close of FY. This can be extended, which AMA does, and has done most all years since I've been following them. What's interesting is that the new due dates are always AFTER the annual membership meeting ... another example of making it difficult for members to hold the board accountable.

If AMA was committed to transparency they would post their 990s on a pubic facing webpage or, at a minimum, note that these are public documents. So when someone requests them, they steer you to the internal website location and say "Download from there." That would eliminate the whole password/come after you issue. But they won't do either of these. Which also tells you something. Plain and simple, they don't want members (or anyone else for that matter), Which is why they make it hard, request filing extensions year after year after year, and charge you for something that is literally as easy as a few keystrokes.

Hope that helps...
Old 08-07-2022, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Hope that helps...
JR says, "junior-activity in many areas globally is non-existent if not totally dead" (in RC model planes and heli's).
Do you know the current number of paid AMA memberships?
Old 08-07-2022, 06:23 PM
  #74  
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It's a bit bewildering communicating with Radiolink. As per the previous post they seem oblivious as to what Remote ID is all about.
Their latest response is on the same theme, after providing them with a link to the FAA page:

"Thank you for the provided link, I read it.
This standard is mainly aimed at drones. The so-called drones refer to aircraft with a take-off weight of more than 250g and can fly autonomously without remote control control. The aircraft needs to be equipped with autopilot instruments and GPS. We don't have a ready-made aircraft of this type yet. This requirement is mainly for the whole product (airplane + flight controller + remote control).

So which of our products do you plan to use and on which aircraft?
If it is an A560 aircrft, it is not a drone and is not subject to this regulation.
Our remote control only needs to meet the requirements of the FCC in the United States, and our remote control has passed the certification of the FCC in the United States.

Carol"

Part of the reason may be because the only fixed-wing plane they sell is the A560, 206.5 grams with battery, so it is exempt. Don't knock it,
it might be my next plane. Or maybe not at $290.29 on AliExpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/i/2255799...apt=4itemAdapt
It's advertised as suitable for FPV. Don't know whether to laugh or cry: https://www.radiolink.com/a560

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