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New FAA regs released

Old 10-24-2022, 10:39 AM
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init4fun
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Default New FAA regs released

New FAA regs released....

AC 91-57C

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_poli...mentID/1041362
Old 10-24-2022, 10:45 AM
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Well, here it is guys & gals, read up and then post up your thoughts/agreements/tirades at will.

The fact that they codified night flying is one ray of hope for your's truly......
Old 10-24-2022, 11:20 AM
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well, i have been unable to find any CBOs entered into the list of CBO that they link to in the new AC. hell, i can't even find the list.
the link just goes to an overview page. lot of links there, but, none take me to this list of approved CBOs.
Old 10-24-2022, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by mongo View Post
well, i have been unable to find any CBOs entered into the list of CBO that they link to in the new AC. hell, i can't even find the list.
the link just goes to an overview page. lot of links there, but, none take me to this list of approved CBOs.
In the Editorial Update:
7.2 Upcoming Guidance.
7.2.1 CBO Requirements and Procedures. The FAA intends to provide further information on how organizations can be recognized by the FAA as official CBOs.

After submission up to 90 days for approval.
Old 10-25-2022, 03:14 AM
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1.1.1 Effects of Guidance. The contents of this document do not have the force and effect of law and are not meant to bind the public in any way, and the document is intended only to provide information to the public regarding existing requirements under the law or agency policies

Watch, some are going to jump all over the italicized part and ignore the bold part.
Old 10-25-2022, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by rgburrill View Post
1.1.1 Effects of Guidance. The contents of this document do not have the force and effect of law and are not meant to bind the public in any way, and the document is intended only to provide information to the public regarding existing requirements under the law or agency policies

Watch, some are going to jump all over the italicized part and ignore the bold part.
The bold part looks pretty explicit to me, "Existing requirements under the law or agency policies" can't be any clearer.......
Old 10-25-2022, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mongo View Post
well, i have been unable to find any CBOs entered into the list of CBO that they link to in the new AC. hell, i can't even find the list.
the link just goes to an overview page. lot of links there, but, none take me to this list of approved CBOs.
Considering that the process to apply for CBO just got released yesterday, it makes sense that there are no officially recognized CBO's as of yet.

The AMA has already completed the application to be a CBO
Old 10-25-2022, 11:50 AM
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well, so much for all the folks trying to tell us for a few years that AMA was already approved, we just had to wait for the right time for the announcement. or this one, that the FAA would not announce that AMA was approved uintil there was some other CBO to approve as well.
Old 10-25-2022, 12:24 PM
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There's nothing to do with any other CBO's.

The FAA has been referring to the AMA as A or THE CBO for some time conversationally. Though they never codified the process, now they have and when the application process is complete the AMA will be a CBO.
Old 10-25-2022, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
There's nothing to do with any other CBO's.

The FAA has been referring to the AMA as A or THE CBO for some time conversationally. Though they never codified the process, now they have and when the application process is complete the AMA will be a CBO.
You're joking right? AMA president Rich Hanson in 2016: "Congress recognized AMA as a nationwide community-based organization (CBO)". https://www.modelaircraft.org/2016-h...election-email

One could surmise from the new AC that the FAA has had enough of AMA and their lies over the years. Not only does the FAA say that anyone can form a CBO on any aspect of RC aviation, as much or as little as someone wants, the FAA also says about a safety program - No problem, you can use the generic one on the FAA website. My guess is this is aimed at Flight Test and maybe other more appealing groups the FAA has dealt with who didn't try to sue them and fight the FAA every step of the way.
Old 10-28-2022, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
The AMA has already completed the application to be a CBO
Already FOIA'd it ....
Old 10-28-2022, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Already FOIA'd it ....
Good for you
Old 10-28-2022, 05:34 PM
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Great, we have something to look forward to in 3 to 6 months.
Old 10-28-2022, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Already FOIA'd it ....
Going by the new AC the FAA is promoting targeted CBO's, electric only for example. Look for clubs to jump ship as soon as there is a viable alternative to AMA. Flight Test is a lot more upbeat than the deadheads at AMA. In a declining RC market it won't take too many defections to put AMA in a bad financial position.
Old 10-28-2022, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ECHO24 View Post
Going by the new AC the FAA is promoting targeted CBO's, electric only for example. Look for clubs to jump ship as soon as there is a viable alternative to AMA. Flight Test is a lot more upbeat than the deadheads at AMA. In a declining RC market it won't take too many defections to put AMA in a bad financial position.
agree with your interpretation

however, it will make it somewhat more expensive for those of us with more than one main area of interest and participation<sadface>.
Old 10-28-2022, 07:22 PM
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Doesn’t a CBO need to be a non profit?
Old 10-28-2022, 07:50 PM
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the official term is

not for profit

meaning, that the entity can make profit, but it can NOT distribute that profit to investors, owners or such. it can be used for the furtherance of the org mission.
Old 10-28-2022, 08:01 PM
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but it appears that Flight Test is a for profit organization. Do they have 501C status?
Old 10-28-2022, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mongo View Post
agree with your interpretation

however, it will make it somewhat more expensive for those of us with more than one main area of interest and participation<sadface>.
More along the lines of eliminating jets, over 55 pounds, contests, etc. A slimmed down menu. Anyone can register a non-profit for a CBO and set up a program under the new AC.
Old 10-29-2022, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ECHO24 View Post
Going by the new AC the FAA is promoting targeted CBO's, electric only for example. Look for clubs to jump ship as soon as there is a viable alternative to AMA. Flight Test is a lot more upbeat than the deadheads at AMA. In a declining RC market it won't take too many defections to put AMA in a bad financial position.
I also agree. AMA thought the language "....provides a comprehensive set of safety guidelines for all aspects of model aviation (emphasis added)" would protect their monopoly. But FAA clearly has other ideas.

FAA's comment about turbines for example, saying essentially that groups which do not operate them do not need to have safety programming for them. Similarly groups that operate ONLY turbines are now free to break off from AMA and set up their own CBO. Setting up a non-profit is pretty easy as told to me by a Marine lawyer friend. He said it's mostly a paperwork drill. Don't even need to be a lawyer to do it.
Old 10-29-2022, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by BarracudaHockey View Post
Good for you
Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Great, we have something to look forward to in 3 to 6 months.
AMA could post it, but we know how they eschew transparency. So I'll post the FOIA response when I get it.

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Doesn’t a CBO need to be a non profit?
You can answer your own question quite easily by taking a few seconds to read section 349.

Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Correct me if I’m wrong, but it appears that Flight Test is a for profit organization. Do they have 501C status?
Similarly, you can answer your own question in just a few seconds. Simply search "flite test 501c3" and you get this as the first result:
https://ftca.flitetest.com/about/

Last edited by franklin_m; 10-29-2022 at 05:26 AM.
Old 10-29-2022, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Correct me if Im wrong, but it appears that Flight Test is a for profit organization. Do they have 501C status?
How does it appear any different than the AMA to you?

Astro
Old 10-29-2022, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by astrohog View Post
How does it appear any different than the AMA to you?

Astro
Insurance. That is going to be the key to any other CBO to be competitive with AMA. Property owners need the insurance and clubs need it to be affordable. Of course we have discussed this before and to date nobody has shown that comparable insurance ( coverage and price ) is possible.
Old 10-29-2022, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Insurance. That is going to be the key to any other CBO to be c
competitive with AMA.
Nowhere in the law or in any of the FAA published rules is there are requirement for insurance.


Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Property owners need the insurance and clubs need it to be affordable.
This assumes that people CBO members are flying on property other than their own. It's entirely possible to establish a CBO only for people that fly on their own property with friends, and thus bear the risk themselves. That would provide an umbrella organization and NONE of the costly "Taj-Muncie" staff overhead!

There's a non-trivial number of people already doing this. Imagine them all banding together under a very simple umbrella organization that saves considerable money, brings the same ability to point to safety rules, AND brings the ability to establish FRIAs as part of a bonafide CBO!

Last edited by franklin_m; 10-29-2022 at 07:28 AM.
Old 10-29-2022, 07:29 AM
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I don't know about Flight Test's plans, but they have over 2 million subscribers and off-sight RC is many times larger than AMA. At the moment those people have no need for a CBO, but what Flight Test could offer is a member discount on their planes and RC gear. They could go after as many of those people as possible and then at some point try to recruit AMA clubs. The same could happen with big drone parts suppliers like RaceDayQuads launching a CBO focused on drone racing and offer a member discount. Similarly, RDQ could try to flip existing AMA sites and establish new ones.

AMA's reputation has been trashed by the heavy-handed blunders in their various attempts to branch out from fixed sites. Upstarts like Flight Test are the next generation of RC and don't have AMA's baggage or bloated staff and $100,000+ salaries to support.

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