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National Security TFRs - Wanna bet AMA didn't notify?

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National Security TFRs - Wanna bet AMA didn't notify?

Old 02-04-2023, 05:46 PM
  #26  
Hydro Junkie
 
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
oh and werenít you fairly recently questioned about your right to post? Different set of rules?
Nope, not a different set of rules. I didn't say you couldn't post, I asked why you did since it didn't affect you in this case. In my case, I was told I had no right to post since I'm not someone that presently flies, a totally different scenario.
Old 02-04-2023, 05:55 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
Fair comments/questions. The only answer I can offer is my opinion.

At this time there is no requirement for any CBO to publish TFR’s. AMA does so out of courtesy. Could they have missed this one? Could this one have happened in a manner where the AMA wasn’t notified? IMO both are possible. Now that there are multiple CBO’s shouldn’t they all be held to the same safety standards? Could Franklin’s thread have been premature not knowing where the breakdown in communication happened. Yes he sent communication to Rich and Chad but with all the water under the bridge does anyone expect them to take him seriously? How does me mistakenly post the wrong TFR ( same city name ) somehow directly correlate to my apparent lack of safety? Doesn’t it seem that Franklin has been a bit quick to jump to conclusions during this thread?
Hi Speed,

Not knowing Franklin's feelings toward the different CBOs beyond the AMA I can't really offer any insight into his thought process regarding which CBO should do what. It is my own opinion that our CBO (AMA) needs to either publish all, or none, of the TFRs. Since the AMA has no means of insuring that ALL TFRs are posted, I'd far rather see them post nothing more than a link to the FAA's own listing of the TFRs, thereby putting the responsibility for ensuring TFR status right where it belongs, on the RC pilot him (or her) self.

PS, don't for a minute think I am OK with what's gone on between you and Frankiln in the past, I feel sad that such animosity has colored you two's interactions. I have no magic words to solve you two's past issues, and can only state that I am here to hear everyone's opinions of the various topics/issues facing our hobby without fighting with anyone. I know I've said this before, but I truly believe if we were all fellow club members having these discussions at the flying field, things would be a whole lot different (friendlier) that what happens in these threads. I try to always hold my fellow RC hobbyists to the same measure of respect that I believe we should all extend to each other. Let's face it, there are statistically damn few of us compared to the population at large, who all think we're a bunch of fekkin weirdos for being old men farting around with "toy airplanes", so a bit of camaraderie would go a long way toward a fair assessment/discussion of the various issues our hobby faces, minus the rehash of past personal grievances.

Last edited by init4fun; 02-04-2023 at 05:58 PM. Reason: damn typos, again ;)
Old 02-04-2023, 06:06 PM
  #28  
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ANYBODY ON THIS THREAD ACTUALLY A MEMBER OF THE OTHER CBOs, AND ABLE TO TELL US HOW THEY HANDLE TFRs?
Old 02-04-2023, 06:09 PM
  #29  
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Well It was nice while it lasted perhaps this is nothing more than a fart in a wind storm, and it will soon pass, and the sun will shine once more.
Old 02-04-2023, 06:12 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by mongo
ANYBODY ON THIS THREAD ACTUALLY A MEMBER OF THE OTHER CBOs, AND ABLE TO TELL US HOW THEY HANDLE TFRs?
AMA
Posts some, but not all TFRs
Emails some, but not all TFRs to some members but not all members
Publishes TFRs only if they say "model aircraft"
Does NOT publish TFRs applicable to "All Aircraft" despite sUAS falling into that category

Flite Test
Posts link to FAA's TFR page
Old 02-04-2023, 08:05 PM
  #31  
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RC flyers are responsible for checking for TFRs. As a pilot you wouldn't get far claiming your flying club didn't tell you about a TFR.
https://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_star...e_restrictions
Old 02-04-2023, 10:58 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by ECHO24
RC flyers are responsible for checking for TFRs. As a pilot you wouldn't get far claiming your flying club didn't tell you about a TFR.
https://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_star...e_restrictions
no argument from me on that point

what i want to know, is did either of the other CBOs send anything out to alert their folks or ...

that will take a response form a member of each, not some general speculation from non members.
and, i do not know any members of the other CBOs.
Old 02-05-2023, 05:13 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by ECHO24
RC flyers are responsible for checking for TFRs. As a pilot you wouldn't get far claiming your flying club didn't tell you about a TFR.
https://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_star...e_restrictions
I agree completely.

My issue is that in an effort to be relevant, AMA is building BAD habits in its members. They're "training" members NOT to check THE authoritative source, but rather trust that AMA will do it for them. The problem is, as demonstrated rather handily yesterday, is that AMA is incapable of responding quickly. This is just the latest, as AMA has famously decided not to publish or notify members of NOTAMS and TFRs that are applicable to to "ALL aircraft" (note 1), but choosing instead to limit distribution and publishing to only those that specifically say "model aircraft." That's dangerous. The fact that it hasn't caused an issue yet is no way a predictor of the future.

What AMA should do is what the other CBOs do. And that is point members to the FAA site, and get out of the business of deciding what does and doesn't apply. If members can't understand what they're reading, then that's topics for the "education" they tell FAA they give their members. But I don't think they have the talent at HQ in the education department to do that credibly. Perhaps they don't want to start, as they'll quickly find out just how much the AMA's members don't know (back to Dave M's comment of 28 April 2017 in an email to me and Mark R:


"A few years ago we did notify members and clubs that were outside the TFR. I forget what the radius was. What happened was we found out the most members did not understand the text of the TFR nor could they understand the sectional (emphasis added)".


Note 1: Per a discussion with FAA, any NOTAM or TFR applicable to "all aircraft" is, by definition, applicable to "model aircraft."
Old 02-05-2023, 07:42 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by init4fun
Hi Speed,

Not knowing Franklin's feelings toward the different CBOs beyond the AMA I can't really offer any insight into his thought process regarding which CBO should do what. It is my own opinion that our CBO (AMA) needs to either publish all, or none, of the TFRs. Since the AMA has no means of insuring that ALL TFRs are posted, I'd far rather see them post nothing more than a link to the FAA's own listing of the TFRs, thereby putting the responsibility for ensuring TFR status right where it belongs, on the RC pilot him (or her) self.

PS, don't for a minute think I am OK with what's gone on between you and Frankiln in the past, I feel sad that such animosity has colored you two's interactions. I have no magic words to solve you two's past issues, and can only state that I am here to hear everyone's opinions of the various topics/issues facing our hobby without fighting with anyone. I know I've said this before, but I truly believe if we were all fellow club members having these discussions at the flying field, things would be a whole lot different (friendlier) that what happens in these threads. I try to always hold my fellow RC hobbyists to the same measure of respect that I believe we should all extend to each other. Let's face it, there are statistically damn few of us compared to the population at large, who all think we're a bunch of fekkin weirdos for being old men farting around with "toy airplanes", so a bit of camaraderie would go a long way toward a fair assessment/discussion of the various issues our hobby faces, minus the rehash of past personal grievances.

Init, I agree that AMA should go ď ALL IN ď or nothing as far as publishing TFRís. If Flite Test is indeed publishing a link to the FAA TFR page then I agree with Franklin that is a better way to go. I donít agree with his thoughts on AMA conditioning members to rely upon them for this type of information. A few weeks ago we had a VIP fly into PDX and a TFR in place. I did get an email notification from the AMA, an email from a club president however I was made aware of the TFR through local news outlets. Hearing that the VIP was coming into the area I went into the FAA page and got the details. Then I did a google map inquiry to see if any of my fields were outside the no fly zone. Point is, in this day and age of social media and information sharing technologies, I donít see anyone being ď conditioned ď to expect information from just one single outlet.

As far as Franklin and I, donít expect that to change anytime soon. Not that I wouldnít hope that one day we can have an actual positive conversation, his initial response to my first post pretty much says it all. As long as he picks every post of mine apart to fit his agenda then we will continue to butt heads. Example, because I made a mistake on the location I MUST not be safety oriented. The only thing you can expect is when the conversation gets to a certain point I will just excuse myself from it.
Old 02-05-2023, 12:07 PM
  #35  
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It's been made very clear that the FAA is now our ruling/regulatory body as far as how our models are to be operated in the NAS.

These threads make it pretty clear to me that the vast majority of AMA members do not fully acknowledge/understand this. These threads have also made it clear that the FAA expects any user of the NAS that they control, to be responsible for, proactively understand and take individual responsibility for the rules of, and their use of the NAS. It is my opinion that the AMA is not doing a good job of conveying this message to its membership, instead, they are taking a very subdued approach in order to give the perception that they are still "in charge" and that, "nothing has changed", a narrative we have repeatedly heard from outspoken members of the AMA.

Astro
Old 02-05-2023, 01:14 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by astrohog
It's been made very clear that the FAA is now our ruling/regulatory body as far as how our models are to be operated in the NAS.

These threads make it pretty clear to me that the vast majority of AMA members do not fully acknowledge/understand this. These threads have also made it clear that the FAA expects any user of the NAS that they control, to be responsible for, proactively understand and take individual responsibility for the rules of, and their use of the NAS. It is my opinion that the AMA is not doing a good job of conveying this message to its membership, instead, they are taking a very subdued approach in order to give the perception that they are still "in charge" and that, "nothing has changed", a narrative we have repeatedly heard from outspoken members of the AMA.


Astro

We clearly have a different perspective. Why does that need to lead to the disrespectful tone that we tend to take with one another. I donít mean just you and I either but all of us as a group?
Old 02-05-2023, 01:30 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
We clearly have a different perspective. Why does that need to lead to the disrespectful tone that we tend to take with one another. I donít mean just you and I either but all of us as a group?

I don't want to make this sound like a disrespectful tone but what would you expect to read in this thread when it opens with such a troll-like post?
Old 02-05-2023, 01:30 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
We clearly have a different perspective. Why does that need to lead to the disrespectful tone that we tend to take with one another. I donít mean just you and I either but all of us as a group?
Might have something to do with you not only being disrespectful and more emotional than factual, but also on a crusade to have those with whom you disagree banned and silenced.

My post that you just quoted had no disrespectful tone, yet YOU bring up disrespect.

I believe that you cannot differentiate between your opinions and the facts, and that any other opinion than your own is disrespectful to your opinion, whether that opinion is fact-based or not.

Facts matter, feelings do not.

Astro



Old 02-05-2023, 02:01 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by astrohog
Might have something to do with you not only being disrespectful and more emotional than factual, but also on a crusade to have those with whom you disagree banned and silenced.

My post that you just quoted had no disrespectful tone, yet YOU bring up disrespect.

I believe that you cannot differentiate between your opinions and the facts, and that any other opinion than your own is disrespectful to your opinion, whether that opinion is fact-based or not.

Facts matter, feelings do not.

Astro
My question to you was not disrespectful, emotional nor opinion based yet you respond with insults. How is it that you can state that I am the source of the discord in this forum?

Let me set the record straight once again. I have participated in getting two people banned on RCG. Franklin for creating a sock puppet account and outright lying ( SterlingD account )and you for posting that I was giving blow jobs to the moderation. Neither of those instances had anything to do with not agreeing with yours or his opinions about the state of our hobby, AMA or FAA.
Old 02-05-2023, 02:07 PM
  #40  
scale only 4 me
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Here's a suggestion,, What don't you guys stop talking about each other and stay on topic,,, the rest of the internet would appreciate that
Old 02-05-2023, 03:17 PM
  #41  
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Old 02-05-2023, 03:19 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
yet you respond with insults. How is it that you can state that I am the source of the discord in this forum?.
No insults whatsoever in my post, just your emotional response to not liking my opinion and the facts.

Yet another example of what I just posted......

Astro

Last edited by astrohog; 02-05-2023 at 03:25 PM.
Old 02-05-2023, 03:24 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by scale only 4 me
Here's a suggestion,, What don't you guys stop talking about each other and stay on topic,,, the rest of the internet would appreciate that
Not sure if you've noticed, but I haven't been posting much here lately. Now, go look at my first post in a week. I could've quoted speed, but I didn't. My quote was completely neutral, did not refer to anybody specific, yet speed felt the need to quote it and made it seem as though it was in some way inappropriate and asked me a question. I answered. Get over it.

Not too difficult so see where the problem lies......

Astro
Old 02-05-2023, 03:26 PM
  #44  
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D
Originally Posted by astrohog
No insults whatsoever in my post, just your emotional response to not liking my opinion.

Yet another example of what I just posted......

Astro
So you get to decide what people take as an insult? That explains a lot.
Old 02-05-2023, 03:27 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
I have participated in getting two people banned.
Isn't that what I just said?

I didn't mention the stalking and doxxing, but since you chose to engage......

Astro
Old 02-05-2023, 03:39 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by astrohog
Isn't that what I just said?

I didn't mention the stalking and doxxing, but since you chose to engage......

Astro
You are wrong about the reasons, you crossed the line and got what you deserved. Be a man and accept that you were held accountable. As for the stalking, donít kid yourself. Nobody is going to buy that load of crap. The fact that you have followed me into other forums and sites for that matter with the intent to troll tends to make you the stalker. Time to excuse myself from the conversation, pointless doesnít appeal to me.
Old 02-05-2023, 03:58 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
So you get to decide what people take as an insult? That explains a lot.
Nah, I tend to use the real, actual, established meaning of words.

You do realize that your whole statement essentially established YOU as the one who gets to choose, right? LOL

Irony or hypocrisy? LOL

Again, more evidence of what I have posted.

The more you type, the deeper the hole...

Astro


Old 02-05-2023, 05:27 PM
  #48  
scale only 4 me
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Originally Posted by astrohog
Not sure if you've noticed, but I haven't been posting much here lately. Now, go look at my first post in a week. I could've quoted speed, but I didn't. My quote was completely neutral, did not refer to anybody specific, yet speed felt the need to quote it and made it seem as though it was in some way inappropriate and asked me a question. I answered. Get over it.

Not too difficult so see where the problem lies......

Astro


Believe me,,, us with no dog in the fight see it clearly,
Old 02-05-2023, 05:57 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by scale only 4 me

Believe me,,, us with no dog in the fight see it clearly,
you can say that again.
Old 02-05-2023, 09:11 PM
  #50  
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I think some people make things out to be a bigger issue than they really are and if the FAA really thought models were a problem to any thing they would notify as many flyers
as possible about any restriction in a given area and would do so many weeks in advance.

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