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Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

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Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

Old 05-14-2004, 09:24 AM
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combatpigg
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

The biggest improvement that the AMA could make would be to give me a membership fee option that did not include the lousy magazine. If they were forced to actually sell the magazine out on the open market with out being subsidized by the membership, it couldn't compete with the privately owned magazines, and would shortly be out of business.
Old 05-14-2004, 10:34 AM
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

I gotta agree CPig. I can read the Mag in one sitting (if you know what I mean). The EC reports are a joke and tell the members nothing. The SIG reports are inconsistant and the event scheduals are incomplete (not actually the fault of the mag). You want some constructive critisism, how about actually putting some information about the business of the AMA in the magazine.
Old 05-14-2004, 10:41 AM
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archerry
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

If you look at the original question that started this, "Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??" I am asking HOW?

Here are some simple suggestions that I have.... Maybe I'm right maybe I'm wrong..........
1. have the district AVP's and VP get more active or assign AMA representation at club functions other than just sanctioned events...
2. seek out and reconize the clubs that are doing the "extras" in their communities.
3. cater less to the, "Good Old Boys and their high dollar toys", and focus more on the middle man.
4. offer different levels of insurance coverage for those who want turbines, over 55lbs, li-polys, etc...
5. let me choose, if I want the magazine or not. Maybe the money I save could be used to buy additional insurance.

You're are all right!!! It makes it easier if I have AMA vs homeowners insurance to make sure I'm covered... however, have you ever tried to make a claim....see what happens then......

I was told that, "once-upon-a-time" our club was one of those that also recognized SFA as an insurance carrier at our field. I heard that AMA "ran them off" by not allowing AMA chartering or sanctioning. What's up with that.... MONOPOLY.............

Hey all, I just saw another thread that was started similar to this, "How can the AMA be improved?"... Read Gordon Mc's entry (third entry).........There you go.... BRAVO!!!!
Old 05-14-2004, 11:24 AM
  #29  
ChuckAuger
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

ORIGINAL: archerry

You don't see Mr. Hyde (and the boys) flying electrics so what do you think he cares about Li-Poly's and their usage....?

(Edited for grammer and spelling)
Uh..Chip Hyde recently flew in the ETOC using lipos, Jason Shulman represented the US in the Worlds flying a lipo powered plane, pehaps you need to make one more edit..for content. FWIW, there is a a 40% aerobatic plane flying this weekend at Joe Nall, lipo powered...

(Edited to point out editing might be in order )
Old 05-14-2004, 11:27 AM
  #30  
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

ORIGINAL: archerry

If you look at the original question that started this, "Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??" I am asking HOW?

Here are some simple suggestions that I have.... Maybe I'm right maybe I'm wrong..........
1. have the district AVP's and VP get more active or assign AMA representation at club functions other than just sanctioned events...
2. seek out and reconize the clubs that are doing the "extras" in their communities.
3. cater less to the, "Good Old Boys and their high dollar toys", and focus more on the middle man.
4. offer different levels of insurance coverage for those who want turbines, over 55lbs, li-polys, etc...
5. let me choose, if I want the magazine or not. Maybe the money I save could be used to buy additional insurance.

You're are all right!!! It makes it easier if I have AMA vs homeowners insurance to make sure I'm covered... however, have you ever tried to make a claim....see what happens then......

I was told that, "once-upon-a-time" our club was one of those that also recognized SFA as an insurance carrier at our field. I heard that AMA "ran them off" by not allowing AMA chartering or sanctioning. What's up with that.... MONOPOLY.............

Hey all, I just saw another thread that was started similar to this, "How can the AMA be improved?"... Read Gordon Mc's entry (third entry).........There you go.... BRAVO!!!!
Ok, now were getting somewhere, these look like some good ideas, not sure if I agree with them all or not, but they are still good ideas.

On the tiered insurance idea, I have seen this one tossed around and maybe beaten up sometimes. Given the fact that AMA includes non-rc, would the tiered systems base rate include just non-rc, or rc up to 55 lbs, or...??? This may actually be worthy of its own thread, since by the time this group on rcu got it structured it wouldn't need any thought by the AMA!

I have to ask about the SFA story, would the AMA not sanction the events, or just not sanction them to include non-AMA members? Also, if a club was both SFA and AMA, and there was an incident involving a non-AMA member, was the landowner still covered by SFA insurance?
Old 05-14-2004, 11:33 AM
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archerry
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

OK... I'll take that back..... Sorry.... The point I was trying to make are the silly rules being made with out first thoroughly investigating the consiquences.......
Old 05-14-2004, 12:26 PM
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

Yep... Maybe I am mistaken about the LiPoly's and who uses them... I'll take that back.. and please accept my appology... However the point I wanted to make was the silly rules being made without thorough investigations and instantly punishing us all for someones mishap or carelessness. Did you know that NiMH batteries are worse for the environment than most others???? How do you dispose of them??? Where can you EASILY find that information in the AMA guidelines???

P51-B, Thanks for your support... Your right that would be a worthy thread on it's own.. We have different levels of car insuance, homeowners insurance, life insurance, etc., why not different levels AMA? We could all come up with something that will work here and let AMA in on it.... Or would it just be too easy for them to charge everyone a flat rate and avoid the administrative burden. Why aren't those who don't have any other insurance (such as homeowner's) pay more as AMA becomes their primary?

As far as the SFA thing... these are stories that I'm hearing from other club members that have been with our club a long time.... I could get more information but it's a moot point and if you look at b.bixel's earilier post he says the same thing.....
Old 05-14-2004, 12:28 PM
  #33  
Gordon Mc
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

ORIGINAL: P-51B
On the tiered insurance idea, I have seen this one tossed around and maybe beaten up sometimes. Given the fact that AMA includes non-rc, would the tiered systems base rate include just non-rc, or rc up to 55 lbs, or...???
Given that the largest claim in AMA history is was supposedly caused by a free-flight model, does non-RC really belong in the base rate ?

I find it kinda interesting that whenever the topic of tiered rates is brought up, free-flight is always thought of as the bottom rung of the rate ladder, and turbine models are always considered the highest. Why is that ? Is the fact the the turbine community has fairly passively accepted tons more regulation than the rest of the hobby now working against it because all those extra rules must indicate that they are dangerous models ? Does the history of claims paid out by the AMA have no bearing on which aspects may be considered the highest risk ? Does the skill level of the individual have no bearing on the risk factor ? (The guy who just solo'd is probably at the highest risk of getting out of control). Have a look at what models have caused fatalities... the ones that I know of include a flying lawnmower, a small (40 sized ?) race plane, a high-wing trainer, a 60-sized pattern plane, and most recently a helicopter. Which of these categories would most people have intuitively put into the "high-risk therefore high insurance rate" bucket ?

I'd be quite happy to accept tiered rates, and I know that whatever rules were adopted I'd probably pay the highest rates since I fly everything I can get my hands on - from race planes to giant-scale to turbines to helicopters... but I'd hate to see other people being incorrectly charged a high rate that is based on someone's unsubstantiated prejudices rather than being based on any kind of actuarial analysis.

Maybe tiered rates should be based on the aircraft category (if suitable data can be gathered), or maybe it should be based on pilot proficiency, or maybe a combination of the two.... or maybe by the time all of the effort is put into figuring this out, it's cheaper to charge everyone one rate than to pay the non-trivial cost of trying to administer a multi-tiered rate. While a one-size-fits-all insurance rate means that invariably some people will subsidize others, it's not really much different than how those who never have the opportunity to visit Muncie subsidize those who do use it, or those who don't want the mag subsidize those who do, or those who own their own flying site subsize those who need financial assistance from the AMA in securing a new site, etc., etc. The majority of the membership probably has some part of their merbership services subsidized by others at some point, while simultaneously subsidizing another aspect of someone else's membership. What comes around, goes around.

Gordon
Old 05-14-2004, 12:34 PM
  #34  
archerry
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

What is happening here... I'm trying to reply and my posts are not showing up........


I got a grip on it now.... OK...... I just had a senior moment.........
Old 05-14-2004, 02:54 PM
  #35  
Matt Kirsch
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

Okay, tiered rates. WHO determines pilot proficiency, if that is the course we are to take? WHO polices the membership to ensure that the planes being flown fit in the insurance tier the member has been assigned or has chosen? WHO administers the whole mess? There is no infrastructure in place now to support either, and putting that infrastructure in will only increase costs. One or two people will no doubt pipe in and say, "I'll be glad to pay whatever it costs to have this option." I am willing to wager that the vast, vast, vast majority are not with you. AMA dues are too high now in most people's opinion for what they receive. I highly doubt that more than a few are willing to pay more to put up with more silly rules and more hoops to jump through.
Old 05-14-2004, 03:18 PM
  #36  
archerry
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

ORIGINAL: Matt Kirsch

Okay, tiered rates. WHO determines pilot proficiency, if that is the course we are to take? WHO polices the membership to ensure that the planes being flown fit in the insurance tier the member has been assigned or has chosen? WHO administers the whole mess? There is no infrastructure in place now to support either, and putting that infrastructure in will only increase costs. One or two people will no doubt pipe in and say, "I'll be glad to pay whatever it costs to have this option." I am willing to wager that the vast, vast, vast majority are not with you. AMA dues are too high now in most people's opinion for what they receive. I highly doubt that more than a few are willing to pay more to put up with more silly rules and more hoops to jump through.
AMA has a general questionaire that they ask you... They could make it a little more comprensive and base tiers on your listed intentions. If you fly outside of that, you lose. Besides they are not the primary carrier, your homeowner's insurance is. Everyone looses site that AMA is mainly serving secondary insurance. AMA points to whatever else you have first..... So then why would they then make, "more silly rules and more hoops to jump through.", you tell me......

Who should pay more? Is there anyone out there that AMA is their primary insurance, or was able to make a claim on AMA insurance? If you get into an accident with your car and it's your fault, does your auto insurance go up or your homeowner's policy?....
Old 05-14-2004, 03:41 PM
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Gordon Mc
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

ORIGINAL: Matt Kirsch

Okay, tiered rates. WHO determines pilot proficiency, if that is the course we are to take? WHO polices the membership to ensure that the planes being flown fit in the insurance tier the member has been assigned or has chosen? WHO administers the whole mess? There is no infrastructure in place now to support either, and putting that infrastructure in will only increase costs. One or two people will no doubt pipe in and say, "I'll be glad to pay whatever it costs to have this option." I am willing to wager that the vast, vast, vast majority are not with you. AMA dues are too high now in most people's opinion for what they receive. I highly doubt that more than a few are willing to pay more to put up with more silly rules and more hoops to jump through.

That's exactly why I pointed out the additional administration costs (etc) in my prior post ... those who think they will be saving a buck or two on their insurance by getting mutiple tiers enacted may in fact end up paying the exact same as they do now because the decrease in their risk group (if in fact they do end up being in one of the low-risk groups) would probably be offset to some extent by the cost of administering a more complex system.

As to who determines pilot proficiency, plus the infrastructure, etc ... we do actually have some of that infrastructure in place already... ranging from the fact that most clubs already have criteria for a member being allowed to fly solo, and sign the members off when they reach that stage, to the fact that we already have multiple "certification" categories for pilots under the AMA banner - examination & sign-off requirements for fixed-wing turbine pilots, a different examination & sign-off for rotary-wing turbine pilots, and probably also a similar criteria for the over-55lb sign-off.

Gordon
Old 05-14-2004, 03:46 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

Hi,
It's secondary UNLESS you don't have a homeowner's policy. I'm sure there's a lot of members in AMA that don't own a house.
Also, one of the main reasons for AMA insurance is to protect the property owner, not just coverage for the members. Without coverage for the property owner, there would be very few fields around to fly from.
As stated above, it's the enforcement of the tiered rates that is at the heart of the matter. Who is responsible for enforcement at the club level? The officers are not their all the time to check you are flying what you're insured for. Saying that if you fly and crash something that you're not insured for is tough luck for you, what about the property owner. If someone gets hurt, he's going to be a part of the law suit, along with the club, officers and members. Will the tiered coverage still protect him? Will the insurance still protect the club? The more complicated the coverage, the less likely a property owner will want to get involved. He can kick everyone off and then he has no liability. Who's going to administer all this at both the local and national level? Do you really think that clubs can take on the paperwork burden, I don't. If AMA has more administrative tasks devoted to this, don't you think there will be a dues increase, since the members ultimately pay AMA's expenses.
There are no simple answers to complex questions.
BRG,
Jon
Old 05-14-2004, 04:05 PM
  #39  
archerry
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

F106A,

You bring up some very good questions and points.... I admit I don't have all the answers either but if we all put our ideas together maybe something can come out of this in all our favor..

Let us put up less road blocks of ourselves by constantly asking questions and start adding more answers....
For example....

"As to who determines pilot proficiency, plus the infrastructure, etc ... we do actually have some of that infrastructure in place already... ranging from the fact that most clubs already have criteria for a member being allowed to fly solo, and sign the members off when they reach that stage, to the fact that we already have multiple "certification" categories for pilots under the AMA banner - examination & sign-off requirements for fixed-wing turbine pilots, a different examination & sign-off for rotary-wing turbine pilots, and probably also a similar criteria for the over-55lb sign-off."

and

"AMA has a general questionaire that they ask you... They could make it a little more comprensive and base tiers on your listed intentions. If you fly outside of that, you lose. "

What is wrong with that?.... You already have tiered insurance on your homeowner's and vehicles...

Let' do a hypothetical now.... What would happen if all the homeowner's insurance companies decide that damages from model flying (or any hobbies) are no longer covered... What would AMA do then.......[sm=drowning.gif] point to your vehicle insurance???
Old 05-14-2004, 08:18 PM
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

Maybe they should have a tier for the elderly.
Old 05-14-2004, 11:40 PM
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archerry
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

ORIGINAL: BasinBum

Maybe they should have a tier for the elderly.
Good point... a good way to start a war too, I might say...... anything more to add....
Old 05-15-2004, 12:19 AM
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

ORIGINAL: BasinBum

Maybe they should have a tier for the elderly.
Got that now, BB. One tier that covers prolly 90% of the membership.

Abel
Old 05-15-2004, 12:34 AM
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

ORIGINAL: archerry

ORIGINAL: BasinBum

Maybe they should have a tier for the elderly.
Good point... a good way to start a war too, I might say...... anything more to add....
The point is I don't think tiers are a good idea. As has been brought up, it would increase paperwork, operating cost and cause verification problems. The system is so convenient the way it is, I say leave it alone.
Old 05-17-2004, 04:13 PM
  #44  
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

Ok heres a good one for you all.What about the weight rule?Why does the AMA still go with a outdated weight rule.You can fly a over the limit plane with a inspection in front of a crowd butt......... You can't fly the same plane in a contest in front of normaly a smaller crowd.That one has killed me for years.THe idea about changing who can run for office is a great one.-Mike
Old 05-17-2004, 04:30 PM
  #45  
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

ORIGINAL: rcmiket

Ok heres a good one for you all.What about the weight rule?Why does the AMA still go with a outdated weight rule.You can fly a over the limit plane with a inspection in front of a crowd butt......... You can't fly the same plane in a contest in front of normaly a smaller crowd.That one has killed me for years.THe idea about changing who can run for office is a great one.-Mike
Seems simple enough. The weight limit in the Safety Code is conformal to defining terms of what a model airplane is that have been agreed to by an international civil aviation agency the USA is party to. The weight limit(s) that apply in contests are in the AMA (or FAI) competition rules, set according to a democratic process by the competitors themselves.

Abel
Old 05-17-2004, 08:12 PM
  #46  
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

Hi,
According to some members of the EC, Dave Brown wants the weight limit REDUCED to around 35 pounds. There's no support for the reduction within the EC, so I think it's safe. Several months ago I would've been worried, but recently the EC has stood up to DB and flexed a little muscle of their own.
Anyone know if he's seeking or been nominated for a third term?
BRG,
Jon
Old 05-17-2004, 09:22 PM
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

Hi Jon

You can bet your last dollar that he has been nominated. As the incumbent, I am sure he will get many nominations.

The question becomes will he accept the nomination. Everything that I hear says he still has not made up his mind. It is not necessary for him to declare until after the nominations close. I would expect him to wait until the period between the closings and the date the acceptance must be recieved by the nominating committee.

Just my guess, however.
Old 05-18-2004, 02:00 AM
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

ORIGINAL: archerry

I am going to jump in now and add my two cents worth. I don't disagree or agree with any particular thing that anyone has to say however, I hear the diffences of the AMA of the past and what is happening now and possibly in the future. I worries me that their are too many people that are very negative or very complacent about an organization that was developed to support our hobby/sport/past-time ...whatever you want to call it.

We have guys our club that are strong supporters of AMA but can only mention what they have done in the past (e.g. additional frequences) to support their case. Then they say that they give us great insurance coverage and a great magazine. That's good too... That's if you consider "secondary" insurance great coverage and believe me I don't think they are loosing money from the magazine with all the advertizing revenue they are able to generate with it.

Then on the other hand, I hear a lot more negativity (just within this forum alone). I have heard where an individual was seriously injured at an air race resulting from a mid air collision, the motor came off and hit this individual in the knee, taking out his knee. A CD at the event told him not to worry about anything that it would be taken care off. Apparently, later the pilot was sued as AMA totally turned their backs..... (True or Not? - Anyone know more about this?) I'm now hearing about the turbine... Li-Poly... and many other things, to name a few. I begin to wonder myself, if all the efforts my club puts into and gives back to the comunity is worth the effort for the AMA "head nodding" of approval (and they have turned their back on us as well). It's seems like a lot of people are saying, "The Good Old Boys and their high dollar toys", is what AMA is all about. You don't see Mr. Hyde (and the boys) flying electrics so what do you think he cares about Li-Poly's and their usage....?

Frankly from all the negative I have seen lately and nothing positive to counter it, at this point, I am ashamed of AMA and displeased with being forced to have to be a part of it......[sm=thumbdown.gif]

They've got the MONOPOLY... Maybe the need to be humbled again, like the rest of us......

(Edited for grammer and spelling)
Hi Ron

I am choosing to respond to your post for several reasons, not the least of which is that we know each other and you know I have no personal animosity toward you. Another reason is that your post shows a lack of understanding of the way the AMA functions and some basic facts that are verifiable. You also requested input from AMA advocates. I suppose, to some degree, I fit that description.

First, you seem to be unaware of the fact that the AMA is us. US the AMA members. You also seem unaware that the HQ staff is a bureaucracy, just as any other large organization. Your initial complaint, contained in another thread, is that pins were not given to your club members for a static display at an air show. As your e-mail exchange explained to you, the pins are for a mall show. A program that has existed for over 20 years. Trying to get a clerk at HQ to change rules is like trying to get a DMV clerk to change the registration laws for your car. Frustrating and not at all productive. There are ways to change the program, but, they will take your time and your effort. Are you willing to expend YOUR time and YOUR effort to attempt to get changes made?

You also make a point that Rich Hanson has not sought your club out. If you were to understand the scope of the job of an EC member, you might understand why that is extremely unlikely to happen. If you want to talk to Rich, may I suggest a couple of ways to achieve that. He was at the AMA Convention, a very few miles from you. You could have made the drive in well under 30 minutes. He was on the show floor for much of the time. Alternately, pick up the phone and call him. Hoping that he would respond to a CC in an e-mail, is, in my opinion, overly optimistic. Expecting a running string of e-mails is just as overly optimistic.

You make some rather strange statements that are akin to “what has the AMA done for us lately?” Well, you might want to point out to your club members that the AMA is currently watching the BPL situation with the FCC. It has been in several meetings with the FAA, OHS, and other federal groups that could have a major impact on our hobby. That is just for openers, I might suggest to you that you read the AMA news section on the AMA site, and explore the archives there for other information. There is also information on the Sport Flyers on the site. A topic you also seem to have an interest in.

Let’s take a look at that “great magazine” for just a minute. The IRS requires the AMA to have a newsletter. Model Aviation serves as that newsletter. While you may feel certain that it is not losing money, the facts show that you are wrong. As a matter of fact, MA loses about 1 million a year at a cost to each adult member of just under $7. Perhaps, as a club officer, you can imagine your club publishing a newsletter for $.60 a month. I know my club can’t. Whether you or anyone else likes the articles or content, it complies with the 501 (c) 3 status requirements for a newsletter and is done on an economical basis.

Now, on to the insurance coverage that you seem to feel is of so little value. How much does your club pay for it’s AMA provided coverage? Could the club fly at the air base you use without the primary (yes, that is primary, not secondary) coverage provided by the AMA policy for the landlord? Have you taken into consideration that fully half of the claims paid by the AMA involve “trip and fall” type accidents? These are the accidents that generate claims against clubs and landlords, as well as individuals. Claims that are NOT covered by homeowner’s insurance when made against the club or landlord.

You make claim of hearing a rumor that the AMA is not paying a claim you “heard” about. You did notice no one else had heard that rumor. I have a challenge I issued some time back, that I will issue to you as well. Name one verified case where the AMA did not pay a claim when the AMA insurance was the coverage that should be paying. Just one. Since Carl Maroney can not recall one (but does admit the possibility that one happened further back then he can remember), I strongly doubt that you will find support for either your rumor or to meet my challenge.

You make claim to “hearing about turbines, Li-poly, and many other things”. Just what is it you heard? The fact that the turbine guys got what their SIG wanted, across the board? The fact that Li-Poly batteries do have potential hazards and the AMA issued a warning? And what else? Really interesting… or maybe not.

The “good ‘ol boys and their high dollar toys” . I like that… kinda catchy. What, exactly does it mean?

Someone else already pointed out the error in your Chip Hyde statement.

The truth is that there are ways to change the AMA. As Horrace said, in another post, the elections would do it. One assumption made is that the majority are unhappy with the way things are… something I have not seen supported. Apathy may be a sign of satisfaction… or a sign of the feeling of futility. My observations at my club and other clubs I visit are that most AMA members do not give the running of the AMA a second thought. Would you care to support your opinion with facts? In spite of the election process not changing the EC often, there are other ways to achieve change… either SIGs or the by-laws come to mind… but either take work and effort. Ask Joe Huntley, Steve Ellzey, or Gordo-outlaw, here on RCU. If you don’t know who they are, some reading in this forum might be in order. Horrace was also able to get a change made, but, it has to be attributed to the skills he picked up as a VP.

As a club officer, I am surprised you would complain here, instead of taking your case to your club. If you can excite them to action, and you have more than rumors to base your case on, you may be able to get them to drop the AMA club charter. That seems to be what you desire if I read your post correctly. Of course, then it will be necessary to replace that $100 worth of club and landlord insurance that allows you to fly at your club’s field. That may be problematical.

Frankly, from all unsupported rumors and incorrect information that you report, it is not surprising to me that you feel negative about the AMA, assuming you believe what you post. Perhaps the solution is as simple as being around a different group in your real life that deals with facts and not with rumor and innuendo. Just a suggestion, Ron, I know you have only been an AMA member now for something over two years and can’t know it all, but, the truth and facts are out there, if you just take the time and give the effort necessary to find them.

JR
Old 05-18-2004, 10:32 AM
  #49  
archerry
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

Like I said, I don't have all the answers or profess to know it all either. I just reporting what I SEE and HEAR.. And there are a lot more than me that have something to say or have said something here. I'm even hearing negative things said from members from your club. Sorry pal, I believe you wasted your time with your long winded speach... There is another thread very similar to this... Why did you choose to respond here and not there......? Did you read some of the quotes for Gordon Mc...? Very well written and thought out as far as I'm concerned. Some great ideas too...

The question here is not how I feel personally... and once again, you either misread the question (topic) of this forum or I don't know...... Let me remind you, "Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??" I hear a lot more negativity about AMA than I do good and what I will share is that I feel this very unhealthy, especially from an organization that was built to promote us. Can that be changed, I don't know. But until we get to the root cause of the problem we will never know. If you have the answer to that one well your one step ahead of the rest of the planet and please feel free to share that one. I am not going to debate what people say either...as far as I'm concerned it's hearsay..... But what am I to believe, what are new members to believe.....?

You keep refering to those damn pins..... As an elected officer of our club, one of my tasks was to work with AMA and possibly enter our club in the gold leader program. It was suggested to me, by a clerk from District X, that what our club does at these airshow may well qualify and should apply for the Mall Show program. When I challenged the guidelines and explained what we did was very similar to the mall show we were immediately shot down, with no explanation. If you didn't think there was something wrong yourself with the way this issue was handled by AMA, then why would you offer to get us the pins and even pay for them out of your pocket....? You told me in one thread/reply that AMA did not recognize our show because we did not have a CD sanctioning the event. Then a few replies later you said that a CD was no longer required to sanction an event. This tells me you don't have the answer either..... It is not about the pins.... How many times do I need to repeat this before you get it......???

I'm not trying to start a REVOLUTION or war with AMA either, but maybe trigger an EVOLUTION. Maybe in the next election those who failed us will no longer be there and hopefully the new will support and work with us like it should be..... It was too bad that there was only one name on the District X ballot last year.... Hopefully next time there will be more... Have you thought about running????

You're from California, look what happened to Mr. Davis, what an unexpected delight.... The man who won the recall election admittedly said he didn't have all the answers but was willing to WORK with ANYONE who was willing to help....... Now that's my kind of people... Are you one of those people.....? What are your ideas.......?

What happened to the dang spell checker...............
Old 05-18-2004, 11:26 AM
  #50  
rsallen13
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Default RE: Can the poor opinion of AMA be changed and how??

archerry,

Don't let J_R get to you. He did the same thing to the thread I started a few months ago about basically the same topics that are being discussed in the two threads. He still provides no ideas, no suggestions, and adds nothing to this type of discussion. I repeatedly asked a simple question in a previous thread ( [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1585218/anchors_1585218/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#1585218]Small Changes[/link] )"What would you change in the AMA and why?". All I got was a bunch of toe the AMA line's and repeated posts saying we couldn't do anything, it wouldn't help, blah, blah, blah.

If the AMA is to improve (or change), as some of us feel it needs to in order to stay current with the times and retain or increase membership, then discussions like this need to continue.

As I have posted before I feel that at some point a wholesale change in the way individuals are qualified to run for VP's and the President needs to be changed to allow more members to qualify to run.

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