Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
08-10-2005, 03:35 PM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
Yes Able but that's about all they can do. If they had hard rules about charters, distance, these sort of things that would have limited their involvement. They are not and cannot solve the problem. Since they did not have rules layed out ahead of time all they can due is issue a "time out" until it is resolved.
Gary
Gary
08-10-2005, 04:13 PM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
ORIGINAL: gow589
Yes Able but that's about all they can do. If they had hard rules about charters, distance, these sort of things that would have limited their involvement. They are not and cannot solve the problem. Since they did not have rules layed out ahead of time all they can due is issue a "time out" until it is resolved.
Gary
Yes Able but that's about all they can do. If they had hard rules about charters, distance, these sort of things that would have limited their involvement. They are not and cannot solve the problem. Since they did not have rules layed out ahead of time all they can due is issue a "time out" until it is resolved.
Gary
Abel
08-10-2005, 10:50 PM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
ORIGINAL: abel_pranger
Because that is exactly the kind of issue that needs to be buried and forgotten if they are to have any hope of arriving at a detente that is a condition wisely set by AMA for restoration of their insurance coverage and hence flying privileges (if it isn't already too late, as you inferred in an earlier post).
Abel
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
Why don't you make a list of all the many grievances this group of rogues has perpetrated? How did this all get started?
Why don't you make a list of all the many grievances this group of rogues has perpetrated? How did this all get started?
Abel
08-10-2005, 11:19 PM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
I know. And when you read what he posted, it sure looks like the routine personality conflict thing at the club level. Of course, HIS side was impeccable in their behavior from start to finish, in every and all respects, and the OTHER guys are totally guilty, incredibly evil people. Count on that as gospel.
ORIGINAL: abel_pranger
Because that is exactly the kind of issue that needs to be buried and forgotten if they are to have any hope of arriving at a detente that is a condition wisely set by AMA for restoration of their insurance coverage and hence flying privileges (if it isn't already too late, as you inferred in an earlier post).
Abel
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
Why don't you make a list of all the many grievances this group of rogues has perpetrated? How did this all get started?
Why don't you make a list of all the many grievances this group of rogues has perpetrated? How did this all get started?
Abel
08-11-2005, 03:52 AM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
Your intentions are honorable but, I think, misguided. These people do not need their hands held...it's LONG past that point...that was six months ago. These people need a SERIOUS bucket of cold water thrown on them. And there is STILL no change. Listen to this guy's story: There is ZERO acceptance of any culpability at all. No point at all in attempting any sort of reconciliation as long as there is no recognition of responsibility. It's just he said she said ad infinitum.
08-11-2005, 08:37 AM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
There is a whole bunch of accusations made by drensa and Lugan I would like to address but, at this time I am not at liberty to discuss, I reserve the opportunity to vent my fellings at a later date. The PA Fun flyers are not the first club to be thrown off this field and I suspect it won't be the last.
The problem root is from the land agent who is a AMA member and each and every time has been a member of the club he has thrown off.
I will say You represent this permisson to fly on the land incorrectly.
It is a special usage permit for R-2 residential which to our knowledge neither does your club retain, since both of our properties are listed one in the same. R-2 WE have not been granted nor DENIED.
The problem root is from the land agent who is a AMA member and each and every time has been a member of the club he has thrown off.
I will say You represent this permisson to fly on the land incorrectly.
It is a special usage permit for R-2 residential which to our knowledge neither does your club retain, since both of our properties are listed one in the same. R-2 WE have not been granted nor DENIED.
08-11-2005, 10:24 AM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
Your intentions are honorable but, I think, misguided. These people do not need their hands held...it's LONG past that point...that was six months ago. These people need a SERIOUS bucket of cold water thrown on them. And there is STILL no change. Listen to this guy's story: There is ZERO acceptance of any culpability at all. No point at all in attempting any sort of reconciliation as long as there is no recognition of responsibility. It's just he said she said ad infinitum.
Your intentions are honorable but, I think, misguided. These people do not need their hands held...it's LONG past that point...that was six months ago. These people need a SERIOUS bucket of cold water thrown on them. And there is STILL no change. Listen to this guy's story: There is ZERO acceptance of any culpability at all. No point at all in attempting any sort of reconciliation as long as there is no recognition of responsibility. It's just he said she said ad infinitum.
You seem to be assuming a groupthink mentality on both sides of the conflict that I consider highly unlikely. In virtually every such dispute I've had occasion to observe, there are couple of hardass boneheads that need what you prescribe and more, some followers, and a majority that are unwillingly caught up in the crossfire and want nothing more than a way out.
There have some actions attributed to some persons that seem to be at the center of the belligerencies which, if there is any truth to the account whatever, are indicators of some world-class boneheadedness.
Abel
08-11-2005, 02:51 PM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
i have been sitting back and just reading and hold my breath, but i just want to say a few things,
1 st. land OWNER never was nor will ever be a member of the AMA.
2nd, the land agent was not part of the 5 members removed from the field, that was between the 5 members and the LAND OWNER.
3rd. yes there are some problems between the clubs. and i do think we are all adults and can sit down , together. and work this out.
as for me, the 5 or so members who left and obtained the field next to us, were for the most part,friends, and can still be.
butch, it is a shame that the only way we can communicate is here on rcu, and hang our dirty laundry out so the world can see.
butch, again, you and the rest of you have my number, if you feel you would like to sit down somewhere and work this out, i am all for it, give me a call.
all we want to do is fly, and i am sure you guys want the same, either separate fields or all on the same field.
you have my number
mark
1 st. land OWNER never was nor will ever be a member of the AMA.
2nd, the land agent was not part of the 5 members removed from the field, that was between the 5 members and the LAND OWNER.
3rd. yes there are some problems between the clubs. and i do think we are all adults and can sit down , together. and work this out.
as for me, the 5 or so members who left and obtained the field next to us, were for the most part,friends, and can still be.
butch, it is a shame that the only way we can communicate is here on rcu, and hang our dirty laundry out so the world can see.
butch, again, you and the rest of you have my number, if you feel you would like to sit down somewhere and work this out, i am all for it, give me a call.
all we want to do is fly, and i am sure you guys want the same, either separate fields or all on the same field.
you have my number
mark
08-11-2005, 04:42 PM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
bet we are in our 70's before you get that call Mark!
Corse now if we opened a country club. Maybe!!!!!
Corse now if we opened a country club. Maybe!!!!!
08-11-2005, 05:56 PM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
Chippy-ho may I assume from your post that you are a member of the pa flyers if this is correct could you tell us if the pa flyers are willing to enter into a freq. sharing agreement with the other club?
08-11-2005, 06:30 PM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
ORIGINAL: Lugan
bet we are in our 70's before you get that call Mark!
Corse now if we opened a country club. Maybe!!!!!
bet we are in our 70's before you get that call Mark!
Corse now if we opened a country club. Maybe!!!!!
Do yourself and your clubmates a really big favor and encourage Mark and Butch (or others among you that can carry themselves with like demeanor) to do the talking for now, and better face to face than here. Your comment doesn't seem ill-humored and I don't think that was your intent, but it does relate (in a defeatist way) to an issue that contributed to the rift in your club that led to the split-up and the fix you are in now. Any mention/discussion of such issues at this stage risks a major distraction from focusing on resolution of issue #1, which is to get your flying privileges restored. At least I hope that issue is your first priority. If it isn't, then I'm afraid you are part of the problem.
Abel
08-11-2005, 06:45 PM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
abel, Lugan and myself just spent an hour on the phone, as for the names you have seen here in this post, Trioval00, Lugan, Drensa, we are all more then willing to sit down and chat, and work this out, but 1 of those five that have left the club has made it clear, quote " you might as well plant christmas trees, because if i have my way, you well never fly there again" unquote.
Like I said in an earlier post, all we ALL want to do is fly.
The Polish Air Force officers and members are more then willing to work out an agreement the the PA Fun Flyers and it members. and the Polish Air force WILL honnor this agreement.
Now we will wait and see if they are willing to shake hands and move on. WE ARE
Mark Mccracken
Polish Air Force
Like I said in an earlier post, all we ALL want to do is fly.
The Polish Air Force officers and members are more then willing to work out an agreement the the PA Fun Flyers and it members. and the Polish Air force WILL honnor this agreement.
Now we will wait and see if they are willing to shake hands and move on. WE ARE
Mark Mccracken
Polish Air Force
08-11-2005, 07:49 PM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
Hi EASYTIGER. Maybe a review of a post by trioval00,"Turbines banned from field", and all of the replies would start to shed some light on what has been going on for some time. You will find that that Mark and his following have used this forum to air "dirty club laundry" previously. I feel that this forum is for the sharing of ideas, building/flying tips and generally information that will help all of us to become more knowledgeable about the hobby that we ALL enjoy very much. It is so unfortunate that a few people, having no where else to go for support, have resorted to abusing this forum! Just my opinion! WAZ38
08-11-2005, 08:24 PM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
ORIGINAL: trioval00
abel, Lugan and myself just spent an hour on the phone, as for the names you have seen here in this post, Trioval00, Lugan, Drensa, we are all more then willing to sit down and chat, and work this out, but 1 of those five that have left the club has made it clear, quote " you might as well plant christmas trees, because if i have my way, you well never fly there again" unquote.
Like I said in an earlier post, all we ALL want to do is fly.
The Polish Air Force officers and members are more then willing to work out an agreement the the PA Fun Flyers and it members. and the Polish Air force WILL honnor this agreement.
Now we will wait and see if they are willing to shake hands and move on. WE ARE
Mark Mccracken
Polish Air Force
abel, Lugan and myself just spent an hour on the phone, as for the names you have seen here in this post, Trioval00, Lugan, Drensa, we are all more then willing to sit down and chat, and work this out, but 1 of those five that have left the club has made it clear, quote " you might as well plant christmas trees, because if i have my way, you well never fly there again" unquote.
Like I said in an earlier post, all we ALL want to do is fly.
The Polish Air Force officers and members are more then willing to work out an agreement the the PA Fun Flyers and it members. and the Polish Air force WILL honnor this agreement.
Now we will wait and see if they are willing to shake hands and move on. WE ARE
Mark Mccracken
Polish Air Force
I guess if that's the situation, you're stuck in place by something beyond your control for now. If the other club is totally dominated by the yule tree fan, that is a sad state of affairs. If the rest of the guys in that club want to fly again, they have a loose cannon to get tied down. Hard to imagine how any group would submit to domination by an individual whose "my way or no way" stance is blocking their pursuit of their hobby. Hopefully they will soon make a sensible choice between flying vs. coddling his ego.
Meanwhile, I hope your guys will keep it cool and avoid the urge to antagonize the mule, as by making an issue of violations of the time out called by AMA. It doesn't accomplish anything, even when the motive is to thwart the "bad guys." Remind them of this tidbit of advice from Napoleon:
"Never interrupt your enemy while he making a mistake."
Abel
08-12-2005, 06:09 AM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
You know I have read through this and all can is what a bunch of children you ALL are.
Who am I to say that? Well frankly, none of you're darn business, you all brought it here, it's fair game.
It is obvious that something that no one wants to share caused this issue to start. (I know that there was an attempt at an explanation but it's one sided and up for some degree of skepticism.) When it began to escalate instead of a few folks taking a breath and acting in an adult fashion, you all decided to get into a pissing war which has led to you're current situation.
To see posts from what I percieve to be the old clan saying "you're post was at such and such a time and I have witnesses that you flew over our field at such and such a time.." Good hell can you hear your self? Why not call for Mommy cause someone stole you're ball.
If there is any truth to the whole "you didn't hold elections blah blah blah" Then you're in the wrong, man up, admit you were an idiot and move on.
I can just see bitter, crabby, old and young guys sitting 600 meters apart, in their respective lawn chairs, cussing "The Other Side" out, while perfect, windless, weather passes the both of them by. It's going to be winter before you know it and then you will see bitter, crabby, old and young guys sitting on their collective duffs in some coffee shop around town cussing out the other guys and talking about how "they" made us waste the whole summer.
Well I have a newsflash for ya guys, you are ALL wasting the whole summer. And it ALL of you're collective faults.
As far as the guy that says "ya may as well plant Christmas Trees" You my friend need a trip to the wood shed. I would propose that someone knock you on you're probably old, immense, posterior, but that would presume that you are an adult. You need a good arse whipping to get you back into reality. Taking stuff legal?, whoever instituted that idea is nothing more than useless pile of mouse leavings.
Settle this like men, grab a cup of coffee, leave you're ego's at the door and talk this out.
Or dont', I for one am going flying on Saturday with out the fear of being shot down, or sanctioned, or sued, or running into a Christmas Tree planted by Mr. Crap for brains.
Ciao guys, good luck
Tom
Who am I to say that? Well frankly, none of you're darn business, you all brought it here, it's fair game.
It is obvious that something that no one wants to share caused this issue to start. (I know that there was an attempt at an explanation but it's one sided and up for some degree of skepticism.) When it began to escalate instead of a few folks taking a breath and acting in an adult fashion, you all decided to get into a pissing war which has led to you're current situation.
To see posts from what I percieve to be the old clan saying "you're post was at such and such a time and I have witnesses that you flew over our field at such and such a time.." Good hell can you hear your self? Why not call for Mommy cause someone stole you're ball.
If there is any truth to the whole "you didn't hold elections blah blah blah" Then you're in the wrong, man up, admit you were an idiot and move on.
I can just see bitter, crabby, old and young guys sitting 600 meters apart, in their respective lawn chairs, cussing "The Other Side" out, while perfect, windless, weather passes the both of them by. It's going to be winter before you know it and then you will see bitter, crabby, old and young guys sitting on their collective duffs in some coffee shop around town cussing out the other guys and talking about how "they" made us waste the whole summer.
Well I have a newsflash for ya guys, you are ALL wasting the whole summer. And it ALL of you're collective faults.
As far as the guy that says "ya may as well plant Christmas Trees" You my friend need a trip to the wood shed. I would propose that someone knock you on you're probably old, immense, posterior, but that would presume that you are an adult. You need a good arse whipping to get you back into reality. Taking stuff legal?, whoever instituted that idea is nothing more than useless pile of mouse leavings.
Settle this like men, grab a cup of coffee, leave you're ego's at the door and talk this out.
Or dont', I for one am going flying on Saturday with out the fear of being shot down, or sanctioned, or sued, or running into a Christmas Tree planted by Mr. Crap for brains.
Ciao guys, good luck
Tom
08-12-2005, 07:30 AM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
Amen, Liberator. These guys think they are being original, this BS is the oldest one in the book. Back in 1939 some kids were doing the same stuff. So forgive me if I am totally unimpressed by all this nonsense. Pretty funny to listen to it, though..."I saw you illegally fly at 8:52am on sunday...I have WITNESSES!"...and of course, somebody is saying they are going to sue somebody...yeesh. Round up the usual suspects.
Abel Pranger, while I think your attempt to broker a truce is noble and well-intended, I doubt it will work, and these people need to have an epiphany FIRST. They need to actually UNDERSTAND how pathetic they are first. And, as you can see, there really HAS been no change in attitude or perspective...they will SAY there has been, momentarily, but two minutes later, they end up revealing that nothing inside themselves has REALLY changed. Neither of them will really admit that they are really being an a-hole. So what's the point? Let them stew until they actually have an epiphany, then slap their foreheads and say: "gee, I just realized I am an Ahole!"
Abel Pranger, while I think your attempt to broker a truce is noble and well-intended, I doubt it will work, and these people need to have an epiphany FIRST. They need to actually UNDERSTAND how pathetic they are first. And, as you can see, there really HAS been no change in attitude or perspective...they will SAY there has been, momentarily, but two minutes later, they end up revealing that nothing inside themselves has REALLY changed. Neither of them will really admit that they are really being an a-hole. So what's the point? Let them stew until they actually have an epiphany, then slap their foreheads and say: "gee, I just realized I am an Ahole!"
08-12-2005, 09:30 AM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
<snip>
Abel Pranger, while I think your attempt to broker a truce is noble and well-intended, I doubt it will work, and these people need to have an epiphany FIRST. They need to actually UNDERSTAND how pathetic they are first. And, as you can see, there really HAS been no change in attitude or perspective...they will SAY there has been, momentarily, but two minutes later, they end up revealing that nothing inside themselves has REALLY changed. Neither of them will really admit that they are really being an a-hole. So what's the point? Let them stew until they actually have an epiphany, then slap their foreheads and say: "gee, I just realized I am an Ahole!"
<snip>
Abel Pranger, while I think your attempt to broker a truce is noble and well-intended, I doubt it will work, and these people need to have an epiphany FIRST. They need to actually UNDERSTAND how pathetic they are first. And, as you can see, there really HAS been no change in attitude or perspective...they will SAY there has been, momentarily, but two minutes later, they end up revealing that nothing inside themselves has REALLY changed. Neither of them will really admit that they are really being an a-hole. So what's the point? Let them stew until they actually have an epiphany, then slap their foreheads and say: "gee, I just realized I am an Ahole!"
Abel
08-12-2005, 10:02 AM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
ORIGINAL: Chippy- Ho
I would like to clarify one of the points of your post. As per the AMA letter to both clubs Quote: At this time, AMA has no Choice but to reguire both clubs to CEASE ALL FLYING at these above Mentioned Sites until a frequency sharing agreement is receivedat AMA HQ. Please be advised that the certificates of Insurance provided for these sites will also be temporarily suspended until the clubs have come to an agreement.
Again I will point out your post took place 5:58AM 08/07/05. Your club was Witnessed Flying over our field At 6:25 PM on the same date
I would like to clarify one of the points of your post. As per the AMA letter to both clubs Quote: At this time, AMA has no Choice but to reguire both clubs to CEASE ALL FLYING at these above Mentioned Sites until a frequency sharing agreement is receivedat AMA HQ. Please be advised that the certificates of Insurance provided for these sites will also be temporarily suspended until the clubs have come to an agreement.
Again I will point out your post took place 5:58AM 08/07/05. Your club was Witnessed Flying over our field At 6:25 PM on the same date
08-12-2005, 10:05 AM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
Waite till it gets where no one no's who the bad guy was
and there are still hard feeling and yes a Tigre and an Able
O yes a Kane and Able[&o]
and there are still hard feeling and yes a Tigre and an AbleO yes a Kane and Able[&o]
08-18-2005, 09:55 PM
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RE: Nothing but wise Rulers.....hahahahaha
Hi Easytiger, I just saw this post and I thought I would tell you what I know about the problem between both clubs. I know a few of the guys from both clubs and I have heard stories from them blaming each other. If you look back a couple of replys, you will see something pertaining to "turbines". I was told that the officers of the PFF club didn't want a member of their club flying turbines on their field. They didn't put it out to the members for their input, but decided to stop the turbine flying on their own. That was when this whole thing started. Members of the PFF thought that the issue of turbines flying should have been brought up at a club meeting and given the chance to vote on that issue. Also they were told that the club didn't want any other clubs invited to fly at their field. The members didn't get a chance to vote on this issue either, instead the officers told the menbers that was what they wanted and if they didn't like it they could leave. Then there is the issue of the PFF officers going to the land owner trying to get the land agent thrown out so they could get control of the field. The land owner told the land agent that she didn't want to be bothered with issues involving the club opperations only the operating of the field. So as you can see the members of the PFF are acting like a bunch of small kids "saying if you don't like the game we are playing, then we will take our ball and go home so no one can play". Thought you would like to know the whole story......