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What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

Old 10-13-2005, 06:17 PM
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50%plane
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Default What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

I'm posting this question in order that all who have safety issues in their clubs will get some good ideas to help them in their situations. I've been in a few clubs(and seen more) and they all have had VERY different rules and had reasons for them. Some of these clubs really didn't have any rules because that's what has worked for years(idiotic idea). I know that one of the clubs I've seen has calling out your actions and clearing them with the other pilots to reduce crashes(and hard feelings). I feel that this is a good idea so that when I'm flying, I don't have to look away from my plane to see if anything will be in my way. So, what rules are really good in your club?


Woops
Old 10-13-2005, 06:56 PM
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polstery
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

Not landing on any of the picnic tables is a rule at our field, plus you must land on the runway but few seam to obey that one, mostly the guys that made that rule themselfs???
Old 10-13-2005, 07:20 PM
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Wyohi
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

WE have a 3D flyer that takes off from the table has tried to land a few times aircraft carrier type no arresting hooks hasen't made it yet. Since we fly one at a time& maybe 2 sailplanes here in Wyoming we have little need for rules. Common sense does the job
Old 10-13-2005, 07:48 PM
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

I agree with Polstery- Landing on picnic tables should be verboten. Especially so with the big 1/3rd scale aircraft. Tends to damage the picnic table something awful. Marks up the paint.

Actually, our club rules pretty much follow AMA rules. No one is to fly over the spectator area and this is sensible. We don't want anyone flying by themselves but of course there are those who disobey this rule, especially the small electric flyers. As part of our flight instruction, we encourage people to not reach over the prop to pull the glow starter but this is hard to enforce. As a matter of fact, a lot of our rules actually begin when we are teaching a student pilot and are not actual rules but common safety practices that we teach.
We ask that pilots announce when they are landing when other aircraft are flying, or, if they are going out on the runway to retrieve a model.
Some years ago, we decided that making too many rules only encourage lawsuits if anything goes wrong. A smart lawyer can always say that we failed to enforce the rules if something goes wrong. This is a catch 22. There is no way that we can enforce a bunch of rules and we have come to realize that. So we stay away from too many rules.
The most effective is everyday common sense rules and all of our pilots seem to play by those rules. AMA seems to cover most of this pretty well. And, a student who is taught safety from the beginning will automatically be a safer pilot.

3dbob
Old 10-13-2005, 09:52 PM
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?


ORIGINAL: woops

I'm posting this question in order that all who have safety issues in their clubs will get some good ideas to help them in their situations. I've been in a few clubs(and seen more) and they all have had VERY different rules and had reasons for them. Some of these clubs really didn't have any rules because that's what has worked for years(idiotic idea). I know that one of the clubs I've seen has calling out your actions and clearing them with the other pilots to reduce crashes(and hard feelings). I feel that this is a good idea so that when I'm flying, I don't have to look away from my plane to see if anything will be in my way. So, what rules are really good in your club?


Woops

They are ALL GOOD.

JETERO RC CLUB FIELD RULES
REVISED AND ADOPTED JAN. 27, 2005

ALL MEMBERS AND GUESTS ARE EXPECTED TO COMPLY WITH THE FOLLOWING RULES WHILE PERFORMING FLIGHT OPERATIONS AT JETERO RC CLUB FLYING FACILITY. (DR denotes Deed Restriction)

1. Members and Guests must comply with the rules specified in the current Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA) Safety Code.

2. All radio transmitters will be kept in the Impound Area. Prior to using a transmitter, place the frequency clip on the transmitter, and place the user's Jetero Membership card or an AMA Card in the Frequency clip holder.

3. Spectators shall not be allowed where model operations are conducted. This includes
but is not limited to, Pit Areas, Run-Up Areas and the Runway.

4. Do not make any High-Speed Taxi in the Pit-Area.

5. Do not make High-Speed Low Passes over the runway, when any other pilot station is occupied.

6. Do not allow your aircraft to over fly the pilot stations, pit areas, shelter area,
parking lot, or any populated area. Do not generally fly behind (west) of the flight line. DR

7. Pilots and Callers and or Helpers will stand at the pilot stations while flying. Pilot will call out to other pilots that he/she is going onto the runway, Taking-Off, or Landing. (NOTE: It is permissible to make a Take-Off from the runway, but after the Take-Off, proceed to the first available Pilot Station.)

8. Guest Fliers must be accompanied by a Club Member.

9. All reciprocating engines of .10 cubic inches piston displacement, or larger, will be
equipped with an effective muffling device. In those cases where the muffler's effectiveness is in question, the Executive Committee will make a decision on an individual basis.

10. Any person under the age of 18 years must be supervised by an adult.

11. The maximum number of fliers of fixed wing aircraft, at one time, is FIVE (5)

12. All radio transmitters and receivers must be within current FCC standards.

13. All pilots shall Take-Off and Land in the same direction. When wind dictates a change, the pilot initiating the change shall announce same to the other pilots on stations.

14. Pilots will not HOVER aircraft or perform 3D maneuvers over the Runway when any other pilot station is occupied. The exception is for when only electric powered airplanes under two pounds gross weight are flying.

15. A Work-Day Schedule will be published in the Club Newsletter and posted at the field. Adult Club Members are expected to work on their scheduled day or arrange for a trade with another member.

16. As per the Club Constitution, Section V, a penalty of fifty (50) dollars will be assessed any member who fails to perform at least one (1) scheduled workday.

17. Jetero Bylaws Article Four requires a flight demonstration for specified persons before a Jetero Flight Instructor.
A. Any person trained to fly RC Aircraft within the preceding twelve (12) months must perform satisfactorily to a designated Jetero Flight Instructor the maneuvers below before flying solo at the Jetero Facility.
B. The maneuvers will all be accomplished in one flight using a "Buddy Cord" system with the Instructor having control of the Master Transmitter Unit. After completion of the maneuvers, the student will then use the Master transmitter to perform three (3) consecutive take offs and landings as prescribed for the initial demonstration.
C. The minimum maneuvers of the initial demonstration are:
1. Radio and Frequency Control Procedures.
2. Operational Safety for Start-Up, Taxi, Flight, and Shut-Down.
3. Flight Maneuvers with Buddy Cord.
(a) Recovery from Unusual attitude/s.
(b) Perform at least one each Inside Loop, Axial Roll, Left and Right turn of 90 degrees or more, and three (3) Take Offs and Landings with the engine in continuous operation. The first take off and last landing count. Landings may be touch and go type or full stop. Touch and go must have at least a five (5) foot ground run to count for either/or Take Off and Landing credit.
D. Any person will be limited to a maximum of three (3) attempts to perform a satisfactory demonstration in any one calendar day.

18. Contest Directors may modify these rules - within AMA Safety Code Requirements - to perform the objectives of supervised Competition/Demonstration events.

19. Unmanned vehicles shall not be in the pit or runway at any time.

20. Any Minor Club member under the age of eighteen (18) must have a release form on file, signed by his/her parent or guardian, and witnessed before the minor flies.

21. No engine/s may be run behind the fence line, behind being shelter/spectator side.

22. A Club member will insure that if he/she must enter adjoining property that such person will secure the property owner's permission for such entry. Any person entering adjoining property will assume full responsibility for any damages.

23. The Club will strictly prohibit any use of the club flying facility to any full-size-man-carrying aircraft, including those classed as ultra-lights or otherwise. (Special event permission may be requested.) DR

24. The Club will not prohibit or restrict the Club from sponsoring and/or hosting model airplane contests, fly-ins, fun-flys, RC Racing events and social events. DR


These Field Rules as well as the Club's Constitution, the Club's By-Laws and the Deed Restrictions, along with the AMA Safety Code are the governing guide of each Club Member and Guest. The Club's Constitution requires that each Club Member enforce these rules. Safety is No Accident

Old 10-14-2005, 12:23 AM
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abel_pranger
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

Great Hoss,

Is there a rule requiring a member to get a latrine pass from the field marshall before answering nature's call? Must a guest be accompanied to same by a member of the Jetero club?

Abel
Old 10-14-2005, 06:41 AM
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

We have a small club (less than 50 members) and two fields.
None of the club rules are really posted, only the AMA guidelines.

Most of the guys I fly with have been in the hobby for many years
and for the most part we just use our common sense.

Seems to work , I don't ever remember anyone getting hurt or seeing
any close calls.........Wait !!!!! I take that back , I did have a close call once, it was
caused by a safety device.

Roby

Old 10-14-2005, 08:10 AM
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crash99
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

Hossfly,

Wow. You guys must have spent a rainy day at the field to make up so many rules. Most could have been covered, Use common sense. Here are a few that I do not understand. Every club has the right to create rules to run a club, but do to this form I will say to many rules is a bad choice.

Our club here in central MO has just a few, You must have a AMA membership to fly, No flying over the pits, and Fly for the fun of it. We are not a large 100+ member club. We have around 55 or so. Every funfly event we have we have to get out the mower to make more room. I think it is because we fly for the fun of it and it shows.

Lets look at some of your rules.

5. Do not make High-Speed Low Passes over the runway, when any other pilot station is occupied.

Do you have a buffer from the runway to the pilot station? If so I do not see a reason for this rule.

14. Pilots will not HOVER aircraft or perform 3D maneuvers over the Runway when any other pilot station is occupied. The exception is for when only electric powered airplanes under two pounds gross weight are flying.

Hog wash, As a rule 3D flyers have more control over their airplane that any other type flyer. (look at the AMA accident report) Now if you have someone that will not get out of the way so someone wanting to land, well that is a different issue. I have never seen that.

Here is the deal, The best flying fields need no management. I have been to 12 events this year so far and there was only 1 that had a control freak. Taylor MO. Every other event was a great time had by ALL. Rules? no you do not need alot of rules.

My 2Cents worth.

Crash99

Old 10-14-2005, 08:39 AM
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?





Yea, Ol’ Horseface is like any proud daddy...maybe he has some pictures in his wallet of his baby...er…rules.

I am slow to support a candidate but fast to oppose...In Horseface's case it is so easy to make a life long opposition... although he really is his worst enemy and really doesn't need my help, I would feel derelict if I didn't do all I could do to help him OUT.

I am just glad he isn’t at any club I belong to…And I am sure there are many that wish he belonged somewhere else.

The internet is a great thing! I probably would have considered ole Horseface to be a pretty good Joe without the insight it has provided.
Old 10-14-2005, 08:44 AM
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?


ORIGINAL: crash99



Here is the deal, The best flying fields need no management. I have been to 12 events this year so far and there was only 1 that had a control freak. Taylor MO. Every other event was a great time had by ALL. Rules? no you do not need alot of rules.

My 2Cents worth.

Crash99

LOL... I can see Horseface planting beans right now...and adding one more rule.
Old 10-14-2005, 09:37 AM
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

What does this one mean?
24. The Club will not prohibit or restrict the Club from sponsoring and/or hosting model airplane contests, fly-ins, fun-flys, RC Racing events and social events. DR

How can the club restrict the club from doing anything????? I just don't get it.
Old 10-14-2005, 10:48 AM
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?


ORIGINAL: Geistware

What does this one mean?
24. The Club will not prohibit or restrict the Club from sponsoring and/or hosting model airplane contests, fly-ins, fun-flys, RC Racing events and social events. DR

How can the club restrict the club from doing anything????? I just don't get it.

No surprise here that you "...don't get it." You don't have to.

My club only does what the members elect to do by vote. Any member can propose whatever he/she wishes, have it published in the news-Letter, and come to the next club meeting and get it passed if the voting members present so vote in favor.

Notice that rule has a DR (Deed Restriction) behind it. This fellow that expended considerable amount of money to buy -- cash -- 100 acres of prime farmland, then sell and finance to the Club 30 acres (same price as purchase price0) for a good flying facility, did not wish for some non-event members to take over and restrict all events that others might want. Thus DEED RESTRICTION that lasts as long as they owe money.
There is also a DR that prevents the Club from closing the Club to Control Line fliers if such should desire to join the club, build themselves a circle or two, and use mufflers. So far none have opted to take advantage of such.
Same goes for the no real airplane stuff. Wasn't long before a hang-glider group got such an idea to take over the club. They did not take it so well when informed of the DR, however none had the guts to contest the "fellow" which was better for everyone concerned.

crash99
5. "Do not make High-Speed Low Passes over the runway, when any other pilot station is occupied. "

Do you have a buffer from the runway to the pilot station? If so I do not see a reason for this rule.

Hog wash, As a rule 3D flyers have more control over their airplane that any other type flyer
It is OUR -- the paid members -- club. They vote in the rules. You SIR have no need to understand the item. Do your own thing wherever you do things.

There is a hot shot 3D wanabee in our club. On Wed. we gave him the runway for several flights. He crashed each flight trying to hover over the runway. One doesn't need too much "control" to do that!

Unfortunately for the sport of model aviation there are so many hotshots that simply have no vision out side the box-sides that they can touch. In full scale, especially the military, a great number of those personalities never made it beyond their first 700 hours. Rather sad.
Old 10-14-2005, 11:03 AM
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

It seems that the club that Hossfly belongs to does have
quite a few very specific rules. Certainly more than most
of us are used to.

HOWEVER

Different clubs have different needs, if that club needs/wants
that type of regimentation , what's the issue ?


Roby
Old 10-14-2005, 11:11 AM
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3dbob37n
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

Hossfly, I don't know if it is fair to ridicule the so-called "Hot-Shots". These are the guys that push the bubble and keep our sport from dying out.
Is it possible you guys are just a bunch of old "fuddy duddies?" Perhaps a little envious?

Unless you are a hot-shot, you don't make it in military jets. Some of them buy the farm but you are expected to continually push the bubble, and hard. If you aren't a hot-shot, you won't live very long in a jet fighter. The enemy will get you quickly.

In our club, we encourage our pilots to continually push the bubble and applaude them when they do it well. The guy doing the 3d should be encouraged in your club. You might learn from him.
We have seen no connection between 3d flying and safety. They do their thing over the runway and normally, because we only have 45 members, there are usually only two aircraft in the air at the same time. This brings up another subject. The Safety Rules a Club has are in direct relation to the number of members in the Club. A Club with 100 members might have more safety rules as would a club with 200 members.
Club Safety Rules then, are related to how many members in the Club and quite often, those rules are a question of geographics, airport design and other factors.

3dbob
Old 10-14-2005, 11:20 AM
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Liberator
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

Wow you guy's want to hammer Horrace no matter what he does. I think those are pretty good rules, all pretty much common sense.

You sort of have to take one of two approaches when assigning rules. Assign some and enforce the heck out of them, or let things sort of ride and don't worry about enforcement. Oddly enough, you probably tend to get the same end result out of both approaches.
The big difference is the blood pressure level of whomever has to be the enforcer.

This is of course assuming that it is a standard club with standard types of aircraft being seen at the club daily. The higher the dollar amount of planes being flown probably dictates more rules needing to be assigned. Just from a pragmatic stand point.

This is not to say that a smaller aircraft can't do as much damage, but to me it just makes more sense to have stricter rules as the cost of the model goes up.

Just my 2 cents.


Old 10-14-2005, 11:38 AM
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

Yes but the thread asked for safety rules that are really good, not for the constitution that was posted. And Hoss, we gave a non 3D guy the runway last week and he promptly missed the run way and crashed near my gear in the pits. The week before that I gave the runway to a foamy pusher jet plane and he decided figured it would be easier to just crash the thing 2 feet from where I was standing. At least the guy you gave the runway to crashed in the area you gave him.
Old 10-14-2005, 11:54 AM
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crash99
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

Horrace,

You lost my vote. You sir appear to be ANTI 3D person. (That places you in the area of a higher risk flyer)

Myself I love all flying groups. Every club has its oun rules. I will assume in this case some people had a hobby at one time of flying, and now has the hobby of trying to control club members. Have your rules. I feel so sorry for you. Here is an idea. Charge your radio. then you can look like a flyer.

I am also a USAF vet. I have seen alot of hot shot pilots. One time on alert my fire team had to drop down when a F-4 poped around on a fast taxi.

[:@] The USAF, USMC and the US Navy needs those Hot Shot pilots to protect us and how dear you sir [] to talk down to those vets that has given their lives for our freedom. Canada might be a more fitting location for you.

To many rules can kill a good club. Sometimes it will push out many good flyers. Our hobby needs all the members we can get. This guy must not know this.

Thanks
Crash99

Old 10-14-2005, 11:57 AM
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

No flying while the grass is being mowed.
Old 10-14-2005, 12:34 PM
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?


ORIGINAL: vicman

No flying while the grass is being mowed.

But...then...HOW does the grass get mowed?[sm=confused.gif][sm=tongue.gif]
Old 10-14-2005, 12:41 PM
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

I don't know Being a believer in free trade I pay someone else who is good at it while I make money doing things I am good at. Thus the grass is always cut when I get there.[sm=thumbup.gif][sm=spinnyeyes.gif]
Old 10-14-2005, 02:58 PM
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

We have rule that requires the use of restraints during start-up procedure. I don’t know how common it is but the neighboring clubs don’t require them. I usually don’t like rules that are designed to protect you from yourself but it’s also possible to hurt other people if you flub a start-up. I saw a guy a couple of months ago lunge for his plane and catch it just inches from another guy’s ankle. Small plane but it had a screamin’ high performance engine that I wouldn’t want to be hit with. I like using the restraint. It’s like a third hand to me now and I trust it more than I trust some human helpers.
Old 10-14-2005, 04:31 PM
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

Don't do anything Stupid!
Old 10-14-2005, 04:43 PM
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

Well, there is also the risk that you make too many rules, somebody breaks them as most often happens, and a lawyer will eat you alive for lunch. Lets face it, on any typical day many rules are broken and usually by accident and not intentionally.
I'll go with Hoss Fly on this. Pushing the bubble is what makes this sport great. Just going up and flying around in a left turn circle is about as boring as watching the grass grow and little if anything new is accomplished.
I say keep it simple (KISS) and use the basic AMA principles applied with knowledge of your particular model airport layout or geography. Don't fall into the trap of making rules for every conceivable thing that can go wrong. I sometimes think people just sit around with nothing better to do than making rules and often by folks that don't really fly much.
Finally, our 3d folks are the best and finest pilots around, much better than those pilots who just go up and do that famous left hand turn all day.

3dbob
Old 10-14-2005, 04:44 PM
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?

Now that's a great rule. That's always the last thing we say to one another before taxi." Don't do anything stupid" What other rule do you need. Mike
Old 10-14-2005, 07:10 PM
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Default RE: What safety related rules does your club have that are really good?


ORIGINAL: Liberator

Wow you guy's want to hammer Horrace no matter what he does. I think those are pretty good rules, all pretty much common sense.

You sort of have to take one of two approaches when assigning rules. Assign some and enforce the heck out of them, or let things sort of ride and don't worry about enforcement. Oddly enough, you probably tend to get the same end result out of both approaches.
The big difference is the blood pressure level of whomever has to be the enforcer.
Liberator-

Your words sound familiar - I've heard them around one of the clubs I belong to. What I have a problem with:

Common sense rules - No such thing. People either apply common sense, or they are forced to follow rules. The club members were IMHO much more involved in the club, as contrasted to being mainly users of the field, when they held the resposibility for safety, among other things. The level of member involvement has declined proportionately to the degree of control via rules and decision-making by 'The Board' vs by the democratic process.

The approach to rules over the past several years has been toward more (IIRC, 37 at last count, so the 24 that Horrace posted for his club isn't such a much), and enforce them loosely. My problem with this is at least twofold. First, rules that are not vigorously and uniformely enforced are handy tools for control freaks that would enforce them selectively. Second, in the event of an accident, the probability that a safety rule was being broken at the time increases with the number of rules on the books. Club rules are incorporated by reference into the AMA safety code, and violating any of them could result in the voiding of insurance coverage. I'm sure it isn't just AMA either - in a big money liability situation, I don't doubt that lawyers for my HO and PUP carriers would be scouring the club books looking rules violations that would be used by them to brand my actions as reckless in argument to limit their losses.

Rules that can not or will not be enforced cause more problems than just loss of respect for them and their makers.

Abel

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