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AMA E Membership(Poll added)

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I think that the AMA proposal is a good idea
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I think that this proposal is a bad idea and should not happen.
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AMA E Membership(Poll added)

Old 05-01-2006, 06:49 PM
  #251  
Loubud
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

And vice versa. You can now buy 2,000 plus watts in these little motors. I know there is a conversion somewhere to compare horsies to watts but not worth the time. Either the plane screams or it doesn't.
Old 05-01-2006, 07:34 PM
  #252  
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Bill

I do see you are trying to help in the solution. But a large part of my deleted post was inquiring, if Fred was actually daring me to do it, for the reasons he assumed I would easily lose in my opposition.

I went to bed all fired up, woke on the good side of the bed and decided to tone it WAY down.

I could be a street bum in my community, or I could be a leader in my community, affirming one or the other does this no good at this point.

But Bill you are correct, I am on the fence as to how exactly I feel (this thread may actually help me decide once and for all).

There is a part of me who wants to show. We park/electric fliers have been GROSSLY underestimated as to the power and influence we have in our "own" communities.

There is another part of me who has the live and let live attitude (being from the Live Free or Die state).

So Fred go ahead dare me, I dare you, BUT remember there are 70 fliers in this club that are being squeezed out and may end up being field less as a result.

Well the blood pressure is raising, and I don't want to say something I'll be ashamed of, so I'll end here.

Brent







Old 05-02-2006, 04:32 AM
  #253  
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Brent,

You want to discuss winners and losers? If we do not in suceed in bringing all R/C flyers together then we are all going to lose. Conversely, if we are successful, most of us will be winners. At least that's my view of the situation.

With all flyers united, we (I) should be able to teach the newer guys a part of this hobby that they might never know otherwise. I may actually learn from them (you) a part of this hobby that I might otherwise never know.

United, we can demonstrate a much larger voting bloc that the decision makers at all levels of government will not wish to ignore. Of course, that is a selfish reason, regardless of how practical.

United, the hobby manufacturers/distributors should and will provide better equipment (we may start getting what we pay for) than we will ever get being seperate. They will know that we at least communicate. Also there will be some crossover which will result in more sales for them. It is a win/win situation for them (us too).

The ones of us who will not win? That's easy. There is always a small percentage (and usually very vocal) who never want anything to change. They seem to find much pleasure and joy at someone elses misery. I am sure that when these posts are confrontational, they are happiest. Have you noticed that when a post begins to build consensus, they are in the thick of the fight, trying to keep the rift going? Then when the consensus is finally gained, you never hear from them again? Look back through this thread. Who was stirring the pot? Now that the post has calmed down, do you see them? Didn't think so. I have not a clue as to what they fear that they will lose, unless as someone put it..., "They will take up all the flying time at the club field". I have heard that line af reasoning (non-reasoning) before. It normally comes from someone who flys junk, and not that often, and I will promise you, not that well. We will be well off if this idea does prove out, and they move on to some other hobby, where they can ****h to their hearts content and worry the drawers off the folks there.

Brent, I understand that you feel that someone needs to pay for your part of the hobby being neglected by the old guard. It is not going to happen. There is no getting even. (unless proving them wrong counts). There is no payback. There is no revenge. There is just the peace that acceptance brings. The older I get the more I realize that there are only two things that matter. The first is Self Satisfaction. The other is Peace of mind.

I do not think that you could be a street person. Where would you find the room to hang your models?

Keep on keepin' on. [8D]

Bill, AMA 4720
Old 05-02-2006, 07:41 AM
  #254  
TerryE
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Besides, Hollywood could never fit all of his video equipment into a shopping cart
Old 05-02-2006, 08:24 AM
  #255  
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Terry,

Good to see you back in here.

Bill AMA 4720
Old 05-02-2006, 08:59 AM
  #256  
bdavison
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Ive said it before, and Ill say it again.

If you want a change in the AMA...you have to be IN the AMA. You cant sit on the sidelines, yelling at the top of your lungs, and expect anything to change. If you want the AMA to be more parkflyer friendly, then you have to join, and then make a change.

The AMA gave you a chance, they offered a proposal to get parkflyers into the AMA where they would have a chance to voice their opinions and make changes. It got tossed back at them with all sorts of reasons. Parkflyers blew it big time.

I joined the AMA so I could compete in AMA sanctioned events. Now I have a voice, small, but a voice. I now have the ability to make changes. Small...but still changes.

If you dont like the way you got treated by certain members of the AMA...dont blame the AMA...blame the certain members. Those members dont speak for all of us, and definatly not me. As for me and my AMA membership, Ill use it to welcome and assist any pilot with a plane, radio and two fingers. No matter what they fly....glow, electric, rubber, or hi-start.

And since this seems to be a growing trend.....
Bryan Davison
AMA 465513
Old 05-02-2006, 09:25 AM
  #257  
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Bill / Bryan;

Wish I had encountered you guys at the field - I would probably have joined by now May even be flying my gassers again...

Bryan;

I would join the AMA and try to work from the "inside out", but right now - to me, right or wrong - with this new "e-card" it just doesn't seem worth it. As the AMA is now trying to "court" electric fliers, I see us in a position of strength - with which comes negotiating power. Unfortunately, the electric fliers are not well organized, but that is what the AMA is trying to do...so where does that leave us?

I know I am starting to sound like a broken record, but here is my proposal:

1) Get rid of the whole e-card concept. No club flying privelidges, 200 ceiling, etc. just wont fly (pun intended)

2) Offer a dues reduction for the first year to any new member...a significant one. Get the clubs to do the same.

3) Really impress on the clubs thay they need to welcome the e-fliers, help them, and make this a positive experience for all of us.


When you do that you will attract the e-flier with a cheap membership, but once they have a few (or more) positive experiences at a club you will have gained a loyal member for both the club as well as the AMA.

Terry
Old 05-02-2006, 11:38 AM
  #258  
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Right now, I think we all agreed the hypothetical is ok, but we want to work with facts here.
So Brent threw out some hypothetical statements, and Fred replied with the same. And look what happened. As it is I don't think any ill will was meant by either, but maybe the interpretation of what was written, was off from the intended mark.

I think we are more on the right track getting the clubs involved in this then the AMA proper, at first. On a side note, has anyone looked at the" should we kick out non flying members" forum here. These guys are on two sides as to whether they should keep non flying members on the rosters of the clubs. Hey we want in and we do fly. LOL
Old 05-02-2006, 11:47 AM
  #259  
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Ok I went through the list of flight clubs here in PA. Of the 23 listed, 22 require AMA membership, to become a member of the club. #23 was a dead link.

I'm going to contact those sites to get more info. I'll see what kind of response I get, re: new E fliers, and thier (the club's) outlook on them towards becoming members.
Let me get a run down on them and maybe it will at least give us a sampling of what the current attitude is, at least in PA, towards E fliers.
Old 05-02-2006, 01:00 PM
  #260  
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Glacier,
When approaching the club, leave the factory fresh Cobra at home and drive a car that is average for your area. Take a small park flier. With 22 clubs to look into, you can do it both ways. Regular p/f and regular car and regular p/f and a nice car. Maybe a beat up Stryker. But remember that thing about clubs is they are private clubs. I think the main question is this, "Why is it an AMA Club?".
Old 05-02-2006, 01:10 PM
  #261  
TerryE
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

OK - I am MAD [:@][:@]

But not at anyone here

I took GG's approach and looked up the phone number for the local RC club. Called the President.

Me: Are you an AMA affiliated club?
Him: Yes
Me: Are you accepting new members?
Him: Of course
Me: I am an electric flier, how much are the dues?
Him: We don't allow electrics at our club.
Me: Why?
Him: They are just toys, and a bother to other club members. Just go fly in a park. Sorry, I have to go. Bye
Me: but...
<click>

I know this is not indicative of most of the people here, but WOW what a way to turn a guy off of your club and anything to do with it...

did I mention HE IS THE PRESIDENT [X(][:'(]

No real point in all of this, I just had to vent!

Whew, I feel better now.
Old 05-02-2006, 01:29 PM
  #262  
Loubud
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Terry,
I got the a few times. Unanswered emails, unanswered phone messages. Finally my LHS (Hobby People) manager told me about the club I'd join if I went back to the AMA.
In Terry's instance, I wouldn't join the AMA till I found a club that would open there arms to a new member flying electrics. Same to the rest of the p/f.
Davidson,
Trying to change the AMA from the inside? Inside of what?
Me thinketh that the reply to my response to Terry will bring the usual answer. Don't blame the few bad apples, etc.
And me thinketh my reply to Davidson will be the other typical reply. Join or shut up about what we do.
I'll wait for Glacier's report about his checking into AMA Clubs.
Lou
EX-AMA
Old 05-02-2006, 01:34 PM
  #263  
TerryE
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Lou;

Send Hazy, and doggie. [>:]

Old 05-02-2006, 01:55 PM
  #264  
Loubud
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Doggy will only fetch Hazy but I'll have a word with him.
Old 05-02-2006, 02:37 PM
  #265  
TerryE
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Bill / Bryan / Anyone...

Question: Just HOW MUCH control / influence does AMA have with loacal clubs. Since they are private does the AMA have any "clout"?

The reason I ask is that even if the AMA welcomes us e-fliers, how much will that mean to the clubs? Are they obliged to allow us to fly to retain their charter?

Or is the AMA basically powerless over the local clubs?

Terry
Old 05-02-2006, 03:06 PM
  #266  
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

ORIGINAL: TerryE

OK - I am MAD [:@][:@]

But not at anyone here

I took GG's approach and looked up the phone number for the local RC club. Called the President.

Me: Are you an AMA affiliated club?
Him: Yes
Me: Are you accepting new members?
Him: Of course
Me: I am an electric flier, how much are the dues?
Him: We don't allow electrics at our club.
Me: Why?
Him: They are just toys, and a bother to other club members. Just go fly in a park. Sorry, I have to go. Bye
Me: but...
<click>

I know this is not indicative of most of the people here, but WOW what a way to turn a guy off of your club and anything to do with it...

did I mention HE IS THE PRESIDENT [X(][:'(]

No real point in all of this, I just had to vent!

Whew, I feel better now.
You guys are making some really good points, and that it should be the AMA that works on uniting ALL flyers, whether they are flying electrics, turbines, .40 size trainers, rubber powered, free flights, Ukies, or 3D gassers and warbirds. The original premise for the AMA was to promote UNITY. And instead of promoting segregation through special fees, they should be going after clubs like the above example and making them accept all flyers under one membership.

I love some of the local funflys in my area, for they fly just about anything with wings. I can see a guy bring his 33%, then fly his little .40 stick, then he'll fly an awsome demo with his Tubine, then go off and relax and fly his electric.

That is how an AMA club should work.

Scott
AMA# 482978
Old 05-02-2006, 03:07 PM
  #267  
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

I think that a phone call, or e-mail is in order to Joyce Hager. Name names, and times and dates. Also get the name and e-mail address for the DVP. Do the same. I don't know how the club is chartered, but I think that someone will turn the heat up. If you cant do move a few states south, (you wont even have to change the name of the city) I can hook you right up.

I can't believe the stupidity of some people. Geez, someone is wanting to join, membership is declining. What kind of winning hand do they want? This is the biggest no-brainer of all time. This is the best way for clubs with declining memberships to re-grow the club. Please send me a pm with the info. I'll beat on him for a while.

Bill, AMA 4720
Old 05-02-2006, 03:18 PM
  #268  
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Terry

If I were you, I would write an e-mail to the AMA, describe that experience BUT use the names/phone #. I would also ask them how they expected to attract us, if this is how their charters treat us. I also think you should post what the response is.

And if you don't get a response I'd post the club name, the presidents name but not the phone #.

The club closest to me, actually has some ( what appears) to be really nice guys, I went to watch the training night a few times last year, sat off in the distance and they urged me to come over. I spoke with them, I asked if any one flew electric, and it answer was !QUOT!yes, 1 guy has 1 plane!QUOT! and i was probably more standoffish than they were, but seemed to be good guys.

That is why (even though I HUFF and I PUFF) I won't oppose the Super Fund Site, because it is these guys. I would still like to standing off in the distance as some one walks up to the box and tosses a GWS Zero, just to see what the response is.

Stickbuilder

You are the voice of reason aren't you Hee Hee Hee. Give us time, we may have you flying electric yet. You posted about pictures of planes, I don't do pictures but I do, do movies ( this was how I got that nick name), here is one you may enjoy, NOT the best quality, but a really good view http://media.putfile.com/inspeed

Brent
Old 05-02-2006, 03:23 PM
  #269  
TerryE
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Default RE: AMA E Membership


ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

... This is the best way for clubs with declining memberships to re-grow the club. Please send me a pm with the info. I'll beat on him for a while.

Bill, AMA 4720

Bill;

I don't thik it would do very much good... his attitude may just be a reflection of the members. This is the only club close to me (that I know of) and was also where I was told to "take my toy and go home".

Personally, I am not surprised at the attitude, but it did surprise me because of the source. I have already written this club off, I was just more or less "baiting" him to see what the response would be. That is why I made it a point of telling him I was an electric flier.

Apart from flaming him (which does have a certain appeal ) I don't think it will change much.

That is why I really would like to understand the relation between the AMA and the local clubs:

Just how much influence does the AMA have?


Thanks for offering to beat on him, but Hazy and doggie get first dibs on the carcass [X(]

Terry
Old 05-02-2006, 03:26 PM
  #270  
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Here's the lowdown.

Their are NO AMA "sanctioned" clubs. In other words the AMA does not "run" a club, or "own" any clubs....the clubs are chartered, which means they are privately owned and operated organizations that have authorization to provide the principles, and functions of the AMA to the local population.

This means that if you want to start a AMA chartered club, the ama has some basic ground rules, such as minimum members, have to have officers, etc. The club itself writes up its by-laws. Basically, pertaining to what they want the club's focus and purpose to be, and rules for how they plan to run the club. For example. A new glider club is going to write up their by-laws specifically pertaining to gliders/sailplanes. They will probably prohibit glow planes at their field, because they are a sailplane club. Perhaps their field is in a residential area and they have noise issues, so they just write the bylaws to prohibit powered aircraft. Perhaps its a Free-Flight club, they will write their by-laws to pertain to free-flight.

Once they write up the by-laws, they submit it with an application and a fee to the AMA. The AMA reviews it, and if they approve, they grant the club charter. Now the club itself is insured, and is eligable for AMA assistance such as grants, field aquisition help, etc. The club can incorporate...but thats a whole other story.

In order for the club to keep their charter...there are three main things that the club has to do.

1. All members of the club must be current AMA members.
2. All members must follow the AMA safety rules.
3. The new club cannot conflict with any existing club (eg. field proximity, freq interferance, etc)
If they fail to do those to things...they can lose the charter.

The club itself maintains its own discipline. So if they say no glow, no electrics, the AMA can't and won't force them to. And it should be like that. For instance. If I started an indoor free-flight club, and we flew inside a small barn that we rented from a farmer. Joe Glow comes to our club meeting, wants to sign up for a membership and fly his glow control-line plane inside the barn. Well we wrote our by-laws to prohibit that for obvious reasons. There's nothing wrong with glow control-line, or (oddly) flying it inside a barn, but it doesnt belong in a club who's purpose is free-flight. Its up to the clubs discretion as to whether they want to allow him to join or not.

Now, if joe glow and 5 of his buddies want to fly glow control-line inside that barn. They can join the AMA, file for a club charter as a control-line club, and then go ask the barn owner for a time-slot when they can fly in his barn. Assuming that the barn owner says yes, then they can proceed to fly control-line in the barn.....assuming that it does not conflict with the already established FF club's flying. If it does conflict, the AMA HQ will decide...(the AMA HQ almost always sides on the existing clubs side)... they will have to find their own place to fly.

But,
Since they are now an AMA chartered club, the AMA will provide them with assistance on locating a field of their own.

Its all really simple. Not much too it, but now you see why I say there are far more benefits to the AMA than just insurance.You just have to use them.
Old 05-02-2006, 03:28 PM
  #271  
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Hi,
AMA has little control of the clubs, other than mandating the completion of the paperwork required to maintain their charter.
AMA can not MANDATE that the club accept park fliers anymore than they can prevent a club from banning turbine's.
As you said, they're "private" clubs that serve their members. If they don't like PF's, they can have a club policy that states no PF allowed at the field.
I think some of you are mixing electrics with park fliers. AMA has defined a park flier for their purposes, which is much different than your typical electric model, and I can see where some clubs wouldn't want them. If a club is made up of primarily IMAC type modelers, they probably don't want a bunch of PF flitting about, usually over the runway.
For a general club, there shouldn't be a problem, everyone can work together. I fly a turbine at a field and wait until everyone has landed before I fly. I don't have a problem flying when other types are in the air, it's the other modelers that are nervous flying their sport models with a jet flying around, so we all work it out and everyone is happy. PF have a high hurdle to jump, as many old time modelers, who usually run the clubs, rightfully or wrongly believe they are toys and don't want to be bothered with them, and I'm not sure how you can overcome that image.
BRG,
Jon
Old 05-02-2006, 03:29 PM
  #272  
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

You do, do, do you? I have actually been thinking about converting the old Corben Super ace to electric. It has a ton of wing area and actually pretty much flys on the wing and not on the prop. I have several good friends up at Hobby Lobby in Brentwood Tennessee (I used to live in Franklin) I have been thinking about a brushless outrunner to replace the .91 Saito. I can actually add about 3 pounds and the airframe would never notice.

Naw, Dangit, that don't mean I'm coming out or nothin! Geez, the very Idear!!!
Old 05-02-2006, 03:35 PM
  #273  
TerryE
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

BD;

That clears a lot up (for me at least).

The lowdown being, the clubs can do what they want. OK, I can see your point. I guess the obvoius solution for me (IF I wanted to do it) would be to get some other electric fliers together, form a club, apply to the AMA, then get them to help us get our own field...

It is a solution (and I realize you are not advocating that) but the flaw in this logic is that by having a small club there is limited interaction possible, and new people may not get the help they need (due to a lack of knowledge, not willingness).

It is also way too much hassle for me (I am basically a lazy flier at heart) so until there is a club around here, I guess I will just keep flying out back.

Thanks

Terry
Old 05-02-2006, 03:37 PM
  #274  
Loubud
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

A general question about the control the AMA has or doesn't have.
bdavidson wrote
"Once they write up the by-laws, they submit it with an application and a fee to the AMA. The AMA reviews it, and if they approve, they grant the club charter. Now the club itself is insured, and is eligable for AMA assistance such as grants, field aquisition help, etc. The club can incorporate...but thats a whole other story."
If the AMA has control over by-laws, then where does this "NO' control idea come from?
Old 05-02-2006, 03:45 PM
  #275  
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Terry,

OH MY GAWD, Im so sorry man...if that was actually the response you got, that was a completely unacceptable answer to your inquiry into joining their club.

Id like to know what club and who you spoke with.
If you would honestly like some resolution to that.

Here is the name of the AMA Vice President in your region.
Contact him, and tell him what happened. Im sure he would be very interested.
I hope that wasnt Loudoun County Aeromodelers.
If so there is nothing in that clubs by-laws regarding prohibiting electric aircraft.

You live in District IV. Your DVP is Bliss Teague
You can reach him at [email protected]

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