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AMA E Membership(Poll added)

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View Poll Results: A poll
I think that the AMA proposal is a good idea
29.41%
I think that this proposal is a bad idea and should not happen.
60.29%
I don't know what to think.
10.29%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll

AMA E Membership(Poll added)

Old 04-22-2006, 09:44 AM
  #26  
1Eye
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

50% wrote ...
However, this idea is crap and will only result in spending more money and dividing the membership over it.
Agree, although I simply answered Ms. Hager's email with "No" and "No" answers to her questions. My worry is that a tiered approach will proliferate and members active in other segments of the hobby perceived as "higher" risk (by opinion, not fact) will end up paying higher dues.

Mike
Old 04-22-2006, 09:54 AM
  #27  
Chris-_-Memphis
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Thanks but NO THANKS ama....i have homeowners... thats all thats needed
Old 04-22-2006, 11:22 AM
  #28  
abel_pranger
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

ORIGINAL: the-plumber


ORIGINAL: ira d
I dont feel special fields need to be created for park flyers there is no reason they
cant use existing sites also there is no fair way to enforce speed and weight
restrictions that I can see.
So, ignoring the enforcement problem, you believe "park flyers" who pay 50% dues should be allowed to fly at existing chartered club sites ?
Though the notion would provoke ridicule at AMA HQ, members of some existing chartered clubs might be capable of making their own decisions as to who should be allowed to fly at their club sites.

Abel
Old 04-22-2006, 12:48 PM
  #29  
crownvic
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

I think they ought to take the park flyers and foamies and put them where the sun dont shine! Thats just my opinon.IF it aint GAS it aint class
Old 04-22-2006, 05:33 PM
  #30  
ira d
 
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

[quote]ORIGINAL: the-plumber


ORIGINAL: ira d
I dont feel special fields need to be created for park flyers there is no reason they
cant use existing sites also there is no fair way to enforce speed and weight
restrictions that I can see.
So, ignoring the enforcement problem, you believe "park flyers" who pay 50% dues
should be allowed to fly at existing chartered club sites ?
Yes I do think they should use existing club sites, the idea behind paying less is
because the will have less ins coverage.

also it will take a lot of time and be very costly to develop other sites.
Old 04-22-2006, 08:28 PM
  #31  
Jim Thomerson
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

At the club sites where I fly, you have AMA insurance or you don't fly.
Old 04-23-2006, 07:19 AM
  #32  
STLPilot
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Obviously they are asking the wrong people. Why ask current AMA members? They should be test marketing this for people just entering the hobby.

This is not much different then what the FAA did for sport pilot ticket and it seemed to work out just fine.
Old 04-23-2006, 08:12 AM
  #33  
Chris-_-Memphis
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

if there club is on any county land and not owned by a person... they cant stop a non ama person from flying.... like at a county landfill that has been used and then filled...
ORIGINAL: Jim Thomerson

At the club sites where I fly, you have AMA insurance or you don't fly.
Old 04-23-2006, 08:27 AM
  #34  
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

If its in the lease agreement they can. I'm not a AMA fan but our site is private property the guy lets us fly there due to the site owner insurance offered by the AMA. This is about the AMA for once asking us what we think and to me is a step in the right direction. Since your not a member why do you even care?
Old 04-23-2006, 09:21 AM
  #35  
Chris-_-Memphis
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

im a member of the ama.. ive always had ama since i started in r/c ... not a fan but ill play by the rules... except this parkflyer deal.. i got into foamies/electrics for the very reason if i wanna step outside and go to small field after work and fly i can... its nice not to load up my gas/glow planes and drive to the field... i can throw a plane in the truck and drive 1/2 - 1mile down the road and fly...
Old 04-23-2006, 10:32 AM
  #36  
Dr1Driver
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

The AMA is simply trying to bolster their membership ranks by offrering the limp carrot of "less cost" out to the park flyers. IT WON'T WORK. Park flyers do not join the AMA for one simple reason - THEY DON'T WANT TO JOIN! Cost and insurance (or lack of) has absolutely nothing to do with it. They don't want the restrictions AMA membership would put on their flying.

For those of you who don't know, the idea of special membership/insurance for special groups has already been run up the flagpole by the AMA several times. No one has ever saluted. In the past, lower rates/insurance has been proposed for glider/sailplane pilots, pylon racers (higher), and a couple of other SIGs. The AMA DID manage to get a weight limit/insurance rider for large planes and a special license to fly jets is also required now.

I'll be one voting against it and recommending my DVPs do the same.

Dr.1
Old 04-23-2006, 10:33 AM
  #37  
Pile-O-Wood
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

How about this! Raise electric dues, lower open dues (split the difference) go to every other month on Mag. keep coverage the same for all. The increased membership would make up the difference in what they (AMA) pay out for Mag. and insurance?
Old 04-23-2006, 11:45 AM
  #38  
Chris-_-Memphis
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

IF the ama would provide something other than "secondary" insurance maybe the "nothing but parkflyer" guys would bite... IF something happens and there is a claim.. your homeowners insurance pays first.. if you dont have homeowners then ama pay first...of course you could just contact your homeowners and get it written out of you policy that way AMA has to foot the bill

note: if something happens when i am flying my gas/glow planes my homeowners wont foot the bill the ama will.. which makes me and my insurance company happy.. if there is a claim on your homeowners your rates go up...

what about the guys w. renters insurance??? what if they have a claim against them what happens? anyone know... i looked in all the ama stuff i have but i cant find anything on that
Old 04-23-2006, 11:58 AM
  #39  
mrblucor
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Hello All,
I've read through every post on this thread and agree with most of the comments. When I received the email from AMA, my first reaction was anger! It made me feel like a second class member. I think it's a bad idea for them to try to split the pack. I joined AMA so I could fly at the local flying field. It's a nice field and close to my house as well. My electrics are range from light and slow to fast and heavy. I enjoy the local club and have received much good advise from the members for plane set-ups, flying tips, and building tricks. Half the fun of the hobby for me is to share ideas leading to improved preformance of my next project.

I've had my run-ins at the club with certian members who think electrics don't count. The club president once asked me to fly away from the flight line over in the corner (standing in the weeds no less!). NO WAY! I pay full membership and won't accept second class status. I told him, I don't need the AMA and I don't need the club. Many members rallied behind me and told the prez, he was being unfair (jerk). The story has a happy ending. I'm still with the club, the prez is now my friend, he flies electric more than his gas/glow or turbines combined.

I know there is friction between electric and gas modelers. I'm not sure why. My club includes a wide varity of flyers; Scale, 3D, Jets, Funfly, Sport, Pattern, Lazy flyer, Biplane, Monoplane, Deltas, Tractors, Pushers, Balsa, Foam, Composite, Glow, Gas, Two stroke, Four stroke, Turbine, Electrics (Lipoly, Nicad, Nimh), Home built, Kits, ARC, ARF, RTF. I guess you get the picture. Why are electrics singled out? Why not glow plug Vs. spark plug?

The AMA has been slow to recognize the rise of electric flight and seem way out of touch with it's electric flight members. Perhaps what they need is some competition.

JB
Old 04-23-2006, 12:51 PM
  #40  
F2G-1
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Not the greatest idea, but lets run with it for a moment.
#1 money isnt the issue - Park Flyers dont join because they dont want to, not because they cant afford it.
#2 creating lines isnt the best idea when we have so many different groups in the orginization. AMA's mission is better served through unity. (boy i'm gonna get it for that one!) Although there are flaws, its all we got.
#3 If you want to boost membership, sell the VALUE of belonging to the orginization, not a cheaper-reduced-price-campaign. (most people can see right thru this tactic)

Ted
Old 04-23-2006, 12:55 PM
  #41  
tailskid
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Hoss said: "Those that fly indoor rubber, gliders etc ( electric excepted as I don't know that crowd) are really dyed-in-the-wool craftsmen and artists. They are the ultimate modelers."

Boy I couldn't agree more with you on this one! And don't forget those Free Flighters - they too know how to build/fly. I envy them!

Jerry
Old 04-23-2006, 02:38 PM
  #42  
STLPilot
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

#1 money isnt the issue - Park Flyers dont join because they dont want to, not because they cant afford it.
It would certainly be nice to have for someone that just wants to fly parkflyers, these people do in fact exist. Some kind of extra insurance in case something happens is always better to have and not everyone has homeowners insurance either.

#2 creating lines isnt the best idea when we have so many different groups in the orginization. AMA's mission is better served through unity. (boy i'm gonna get it for that one!) Although there are flaws, its all we got.
Said before, the FAA opened up the "sport pilot" ticket so that people that can't afford to fly or have health issues have another alternative to flying a smaller plane with more restrictions. It's done a lot for full scale flying. This is not a whole lot different.

#3 If you want to boost membership, sell the VALUE of belonging to the orginization, not a cheaper-reduced-price-campaign. (most people can see right thru this tactic)
What tactic? Let me guess, another AMA forum conspriacy!!! Selling an optional package IS a value. Just because this does not effect you, doesn't mean it won't help someone else.
Old 04-23-2006, 04:21 PM
  #43  
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

This was my reply back to Joyce.

Joyce, I think that the reduced price and service coverage program has merit but would need some refinement from the proposal.

1. Since the current magazine is one of the largest expenses in the budget it would not seem prudent to offer another magazine to a group that is paying half already. This most likely would throw additional load on an already strained budget and human resources. In the economy of scale, sending them the regular publication with bi-monthly column might be an alternative. It might allow both groups to gain more exposure and understanding of each other.

2. Until spread spectrum transmitters are the norm, the act of creating a category that allows people the chance to fly in areas other than "established fields" could be problematic especially in metropolitan areas. We already face problems of new groups flying too close to each other because the sites were not fully researched. This also includes indoor flyers using standard transmitters.

3. It would also be a good idea to have an explanation/rationalization to present to the membership as a whole explaining how we put a lesser value to the membership of those flying smaller models.
There are a number of accident scenarios that are just as potentially catastrophic and just as improbable as with the largest and highest performance models.
To me, it would seem like a good idea to spend more effort finding good ideas and ways to induce those that choose to fly electrics to join the current organization.
If it can't be shown that it is a good value to them then it probably is not a good value to the current membership either.

I do not intend to sound negative to the idea but I have been in the modeling world since 1952 and have watched different factions come and go in both the model industry and in the AMA. During that time I have seen many things change in flying but stay much the same inside AMA.
The idea of bringing all modelers into the fold is a good one especially since there are many fewer now than in the past. However, it will be counter productive if you bring two reduced rate members in and proceed to lose one current member in the process.

Regards,

Ross Woods
AMA 495617
Old 04-23-2006, 06:17 PM
  #44  
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Default RE: AMA E Membership


ORIGINAL: abel_pranger
Though the notion would provoke ridicule at AMA HQ, members of some existing chartered clubs might be capable of making their own decisions as to who should be allowed to fly at their club sites.
Local clubs have always had the authority to decided for themselves who could fly, 99.99% simply don't know it.

My query is whether "ira d" believes the proposed "e-flyer class" member(s) should be allowed to fly their models at chartered club flying sites.
Old 04-23-2006, 06:46 PM
  #45  
STLPilot
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Can someone, with facts, clarify whether or not the insurance would work at a chartered field or not.

I see they are trying to establish new smaller e-fields which is FANTASTIC because that is very much needed for us urbanites.
Old 04-23-2006, 07:23 PM
  #46  
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Default RE: AMA E Membership


ORIGINAL: ira d

Yes I do think they should use existing club sites, the idea behind paying less is
because the will have less ins coverage.

also it will take a lot of time and be very costly to develop other sites.
It sounds like you are advocating AMA membership dues based on the >models being flown<.

I'd call that a tiered membership structure with an unfunded mandate on chartered clubs to police those members with restricted 'benefits'.

Do you plan to be your club's License Category Inspector ?

AMA is not obligating itself to find and develop any 'e-fields'. That's for 'e-flyer members' to deal with.

An 'e-flyer membership' can only fractionate AMA, and badly.
Old 04-23-2006, 07:56 PM
  #47  
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

I say 100% hell no to this whole proposal. If your gonna separate out a segment of the modeling world based solely on propulsion then when do turbine guys get the $500 bill for AMA, or gasoline engines flyers get a $250 bill etc....

Hell no, you either join the AMA because you want to like everyone else or you don't.
Old 04-23-2006, 10:14 PM
  #48  
abel_pranger
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

[quote]ORIGINAL: the-plumber


ORIGINAL: abel_pranger
Though the notion would provoke ridicule at AMA HQ, members of some existing chartered clubs might be capable of making their own decisions as to who should be allowed to fly at their club sites.
Local clubs have always had the authority to decided for themselves who could fly, 99.99% simply don't know it.

My query is whether "ira d" believes the proposed "e-flyer class" member(s) should be allowed to fly their models at chartered club flying sites.
[/quote

Fred-

Why do you suppose the local clubs don't know that? Could it have something to to do with disinformation that has been promulgated by, well, you know?
Not really expecting a reply - just another subject raised to see if Bubba will kill it or not. Looking for another calibration point on what I'm allowed to say here. The rules seem more than vague - he should be more specific as to what his biases are so we can skirt them.

Abel
Old 04-23-2006, 10:23 PM
  #49  
fritzthecat
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Actually a version of your 'proposal' may be the way to go.

Lower the std member dues. This would include the std insurance etc, AMA fields etc. Cost would be around the U$40 range. Insurance becomes primary. Magazine goes to bi-monthly or via electronic distribution (pdf file).

Give special riders to certain categories of aircraft. This would be an additional U$20 for 'special purpose' aircraft like turbines, 26% or bigger 3D machines or giant, multi engine scale machines. Any addition or price increase to the 'special' category would be determined by general membership vote.

Hey, beats that silly, overpriced 'E only' category.

Fritz


Old 04-23-2006, 11:26 PM
  #50  
Bob101
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Default RE: AMA E Membership

Once you start tiering the rates for AMA I can see three things happening. One a ***** fest like you wouldn't believe. Two - who is gonna check all the tiers, may people fly more than one type. Say I'm at the field flying a .40 size and I have "regular" AMA today and they check my card. Next time I'm out there with my 35% Extra is someone gonna track me down and check my "giant" AMA card? Hell no.

Third - why fracture the AMA to begin with? There's already sections of the AMA that feel they get the shaft - IE jet guys who have to get a waiver etc...let's piss em off even more and watch them find a new organization or create one.

The name of the AMA says it all - Modeling - it's right there in the M "Model". If your not flying a model then fine get a discout. If your flying a model then pay what all modelers pay.

One way or the other the AMA is gonna have to pony up some reasearch or something on where they keep pulling these numbers out of their ass like 55lbs and the weight and altitude limit on the E-flyers mentioned here.

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