STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Go ahead, but lets make it interesting, let's bet something on where the poll will go. But lets agree on the content of the subject and body of poll.

Agreed, these are my opinions not determinations. I'm not a head shrink, don't worry. I'd have to charge you for that advice even without a license.

Great, that's actually to their advantage. That actually confirms that AMA knows how to market very well. Most "think" WalMart and Microsoft are monopolies too, just read those blogs and polls as well. It's easier for people to just believe that the best of the best are monopolies, but in reality what they really are ... are just the best at what they do.

I just have snakin suspicion that a lot of people don't know what a monopsony is as well, that prolly as something to do with the results from your headline poll. The AMA is definitely a mono-something, but definitely not a monopoly, from a literal standpoint

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

STL

This thread/poll is to gain insight on how people here view the AMA! It is apparent that most here believe AMA is akin to a monopoly. Get over it! Move on!

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Right, I already explained it. That same insight is what drives WalMart and Microsoft to be leaders of their industry as well. But hey we all know WalMart and Microsoft have their share of bashers as well. Especially from people that shop there and use their software the most.

50+AirYears

So, basically this poll and 451 posts have shown that about 5 out of 8 voters who bothered to vote in the poll believe the AMA is a monopoly. Nobody has been able to point to a court case that would absolutely legaly confirm that opinion one way or the other. In fact, the only court cases mentioned were the two between SFA and AMA, both of which were effectively won by AMA.

Myself when young did eagerly frequent
Doctor and Saint,
and heard great arguement about much
and about:
and evermore went out,
the same door as in I went!

With apologies to Omar Kayam.

And when this thread is finally put to bed, the sun will still rise and set, the earth will continue to orbit the sun, we'll each continue to age, People will be born, people will die, and time will continue to march on!

And we'll continue to strongly argue our viewpoints for and against the next subject.

It's been fun!

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Hold on there. Just because someone feels the AMA is at least somewhat monopolistic doesn't equate to bashing the AMA. That appears to be the contention of our (me and your) argument.

I can accept any deficiency of the AMA as it is and still support the AMA for all the good things they do. Also it is perfectly fine if I or you or anyone else finds something they wish was different within the AMA. If they find enough things they can simply not join...that is up to them. Not bashing just choice. But if after they leave they continue to denigrate the AMA that would indeed be bashing.

I feel true bashing can only be perpetrated by those that do not support whatever organization...so your characterization of those that bash AMA is misdirected by your bashing of them…That is wrong IMO.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Wait, I didn't say you were a basher, you don't have to explain yourself to me. But I do appreciate your attempted sales pitch.

I was only using a general statement of common knowledge that many people believe that some large and successful businesses could sometimes be considered monopolistic because it's just a real easy thing to say and a lot of people like to blame their own insecurities on other people, groups, ethnicities or even large companies. Don't tell me you never heard someone call WalMart or MS a monopoly .... I mean come on. Run any poll on any website and ask the same thing about them and you'll get the same results. But we both know neither of them are no such thing.

But the bottom line ... who cares? It's better for them, the AMA, that people think they are a monopoly. Your research proved great information ... AMA's marketing strategy is right up there with WalMart and MS, good for them!

KidEpoxy

why is it some folks still dont see that saying "AMA is a monopoly" is akin to saying "There is a snake in the yard". Many folks will say, what kind of snake because there are plenty of hardworkin helpfull snakes we want in our yards.

looking at that Wiki link, I grabbed
"because it has been able to keep production and supply costs lower than any other possible competitor so that it can charge a lower price than others and still be profitable"
--- that seems to fit the "Walmart is not a monopoly cause it hasnt been proven in court" arguement such that in that kind of monopoly the consumer benefits. We have heard over & over in this thread that others can startup competition, but it just wont be practical for them to.... sound familiar?

Why are there no competitors for AMA?
Others cant compete with the one that already has all the clubs & members & group discounts. Just because AMA is not sending goons over to bust knees doesnt mean thay are not an 'efficiency monopoly'... and an 'efficiency monopoly' is a monopoly, but a good one. If you think the AMA isnt, then why the heck arent we? Just to hurt members with high prices to be fair to competition that doesnt exist?

What is the justification for AMA not to have prices so low others cant compete?
And if we do have those low prices..... efficiency monopoly.
So which is it, are we choosing to hurt members with high prices, or are we an efficiency monopoly(the good kind)


Different kinds of monopoly just like different kinds of snakes, some it would be good to have.
To say generally folks think being associated with snakes is bad, they should review the Dont Tread On Me flag & how folks represented themselves with a snake by choice. If being snakelike was good enough for our founders, being a monopoly is good enough for AMA.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

A monopoly MUST exist within a specific industry, look up any definition in any book. Also for it ever to make it to a antitrust case, it must exist within a specific industry as well. Tell me what industry is the AMA a monopoly? There isn't one. The AMA has plenty of competitors in the insurance industry, publication industry and even "flying site" industry. In fact if you want to put the AMA in the insurance industry then they markup their insurance premium by several hundred percent over their cost. You can certainly get coverage much cheaper then them for a much lower head count if you don't need all that other eye candy. The AMA is, by a literal and factual standpoint, in no way shape or form a monopoly.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Since there isn't another organization like AMA for us to choose from, that in itself rises to the level of a Monopoly for many, not to mention certain exclusionary methods AMA uses to insure its existence whether the intent is to preclude another organization’s competition or simply to survive is not in question here.

We are not going to decide the legal definition of anything here…and for our discussion it doesn’t matter in the least. It is apparent that within the modeling community AMA is viewed as a monopoly by many.

Again, this thread/poll is to gain insight on how people here view the AMA! It is apparent that most here believe AMA is akin to a monopoly. Get over it! Move on!

KidEpoxy

But LCS,
any second now the closed poll is going to swing the other way!

Legal definition, academic definition, guy on street interpretation... seems the poll wasnt specific as to any one particular text for definition, kinda leaves it up to the individual. Kinda like how each individual cast their own vote by their definition, freedom of choice. Yes, I know that letting folks choose for themselves rubs against the grain of some posters here, and yeah, they should embrace tolerance... cant we all just get along... it takes a village.... thousand points of light.... sharing is caring...

c'mon guys, group hug!

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Exactly. I don't know why you guys keep closing your polls. I mean there were 11,000 hits to this thread, could have gone either way.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

Never leave a poll open when you have enough votes to support your premise. 60/40 vote in this poll is in no way representative of the AMA membership at large.

Why not start a poll to see how many think participation on the AMA forum is representative of the members or does it just represent those that see that have their own agendas and can't seem to get support anywhere else.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Hahaha ... funny. Remember when the poll started at 90:10 then 80:20 then 70:30 then 60:40 then it closed.

I hate AMA bashers.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

One should not hate, only feel sorry for and have some compassion for them that find this their only outlet. They know not what they do.

abel_pranger

Dion-

You are a real piece of work. The poll started by LCS opened on 8/23 and closed on 9/2. That was established at the start and you know that. Suggestion that it ended when it indicated the results he wanted is a chunk out of Bandini Mountain, but then you know that too.

Try a positive note, and take an opportunity to look down your nose at the same time: Tell all us hated AMA bashers about the strides you have have made on the Central Park aerodrome.

Abel

ira d

STL

As far as im concerned the AMA is a monoply but I would support reopening
the poll and letting it run longer. If I was to guess I think only about 10%
of the AMA membership post in this forum however I would bet 30 to 40%
of the membership may brouse in this forum from time to time.

KidEpoxy

Red-
Seems to me a bunch of the folks that so many hate talked up a storm about AMA SC#3 & Paintball here at RCU.... how did that turn out in the end? Seems the 'own agenda' started a grassroots movement to bring the mystery of allowed paintball to light, and got AMA to shine the light for us Agenders here at RCU.

What we say does get back to Muncie.
And sometimes they agree with us, rather than the guy that declared Paintball Verboten and assured us he was absolutley infalable about it... until the end when he had to admit he was wrong.

Support anywhere else?
Why, we get support from Muncie time to time, why go elsewhere.



odd, I dont remember the poll starting 90-10

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

First off I was never wrong about paintballing. The AMA's first response was right in line with my comments and then when they investigated further, talked to ther lawyers and the insurance company, they changed their tune. Which is fine. I only supported the AMA supporting paintball.

And what if the debate never happened? What if the AMA's stance was their original stance on the issue and an accident occured? But luckily we debated the issue and the AMA and that guy from SOCAL stepped up to the plate and took action. Had we not debated or pressed the issue your beloved paintballing airplane activity will still be up on cloud nine with the AMA.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Are you sure about that...I thought that you still had to join the PGA? Mind you, that doesn't mean that you have earned your tour card, just joined the PGA.

I know an amatuer doesn't get to keep any prize money if they win, but don't they still have to join the PGA?

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

First off, you can start another poll if you like… nothing stopping you!. Secondly, this poll ran long enough to insure a real response from those that frequent this forum on a regular basis. Thirdly and more importantly, I did not ban anyone from participating as you have in your district's AMA forum!

As for as your spiteful comment “only feel sorry for and have some compassion for them that find this their only outlet.” I’ll challenge you here and now in a flying competition and see who is more proficient. You have no idea of what you speak…you know how to charge a battery…big deal.

The bottom line, most people that frequent this forum most often do view AMA as a monopoly. Get over it! Move on! Get a hobby or something.

KidEpoxy

LCS-
That hit a great point,
Lets all go over to the D5 forums an post there....
You guys know, the ones that are open to all AMA members & Unmoderated (according to the description a few weeks ago), sounds like a perfect place for all us AMA RCU'ers to freely exchange different opinions.

Only Outlet?
What, they can post here & at their District forums... unless somebody gets all banny about stuff and shuts the out of other outlets of expressing ways to improve the AMA.


Improve, like
"Lets get going with the Efficiency Monopoly already, I got money I want to save and I dont feel like having high prices just to help competing orgs"
.... that would be an improvement if AMA wasnt already a member serving Efficiency Monopoly (per wiki)

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

OK...Sounds like fun...oh wait it shouldn't be about fun...we should somberly and reverently respect the divinity there...

Wonder how long we would last there before the grim reaper had his way.

KidEpoxy

Oh, looks like I found someone that is all about the Monopoly, we should count him in the poll-

with all his posts against folks being able to choose or even start an alternative,
I would have to guess he really believes in the monopoly practice as a good thing