littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

50%

Thank you. I feel honored but one thing crosses my mind...you call me close minded yet it is you that intend to ignore me or someone else. Hmmm.... Is that a tactic you use a lot? Just tune out other points of view to bolster yours. I think you are pretty bright and that strategy evidentially has work to good effect for you so far.

AERORICH73

Thank you B-51 for bringing this topic to the top of the discussion, "There are no publications
for just glow, gas burner, and jets". Indirectly that was my point in suggesting that the AMA
sort out the different modeling areas so that we all could read what we wanted. I have finally
given up purchasing any further magazines for that reason, and I have not received an answer
back from Debra Cleghorn, executive editor of Model Airplane News, concerning my thoughts on
her September 2006 issue, and my last one to buy.

Is there any chance that the AMA membership could promote the publication into at least what
51% of us would like to read each month? Everyone on this thread has brought out valid points
of view which could bring change in the magazine. I envy the heli, and glider pilots as they have
publications in the market place to cover their area of interest. Unfortunately, my interest is
not in either one of these areas.

I conclude my part in this discussion by thanking you all for participating in this thread, and
making your feelings known.

Rich S. ([email protected])

Jim Thomerson

I wouldn't mind seeing an ARF review sacrificed for increased FF and CL coverage. Actually, I am happy with construction articles of any kind.

KidEpoxy

"Actually, I am happy with construction articles of any kind."

I hear that
I'd rather look at the plan of a Peanut than one more shot of some Ewhatsit hovering or OOOooooh look, another arf yak/katana

Stickbuilder

It does appear that the Staff of MA have finally realized that there is an ever-widening gulf between the Electric power camp and the Gas-Glow crowd. How many months did it take for them to figure that one out? It's going to be interesting to see how the EC responds to that one. How to make one camp happy without Pissing off the other side???

Bill, AMA 4720

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

It can't be done! Wait, on second thought, maybe the strategy should be to just go ahead and piss off both sides. One issue of quilting and sewing should get it done. Then everyone…err… all but one would be thankful to have it as it is now.

Stickbuilder

Could be. LMAO. Of course, the stitching might prove worthwhile to those of us who build scale. New kind of rib stitching.

Bill, AMA 4720

KidEpoxy

oh, come on now.
That would just look stupid, 45 pages of Quilting & Sewing with 79 pages of plane ads.



--edit
ok, yeah, I made them numbers up... anybody done a real ad/context ratio yet?

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Heck, even the thought of such is getting peoples hackles up...that old MA is already starting to look better.

KidEpoxy

the old argument over MA:
We could open up the books & see if there is some fiscal area we can improve
or
We can declare there is nothing to fix, no need to look at the accounting

We are the members, we OWN that rag, publish the important numbers. Moreso than just the $1mil in, $2mil out general ledger. Wonder if that guy in NY will run his schoolkid program's magazine with the same financial strategy.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

My company is free from bureaucracy and open books, it's the perk of being your own boss, you should give it a try sometime. Heck if you have the know how you can gather rocks from your backyard sell them for a few bucks each and make a few million if you have the skills.

Jim Thomerson

I have large supply of made in USA rocks in my backyard. I could make someone a heck of a deal on them. Riches await you!

Did you notice Bob Hunt's comments on the material he is seeing coming in? And weren't there at least a couple of glowpowered construction articles?

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

I doubt if most of the complainers that deride MA do much more than look at the pictures. [sm=72_72.gif] In order to write something meaningful for MA you have to have done something meaningful.[sm=idea.gif]

J-To-Low

This is the part that scares me. Someone might actually listen to you. Hope they are flying a .40 sized Kaos and not something larger or helicopter or jet which you have no real experience with.

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

I don't care that the magazine loses money. In fact, I think that should be it's goal so that if more revenue comes in, they spend it to make a bigger magazine with more of everything. As far as the ads go, I'd like to see a sliding scale. Charge Tower a gazillion bucks for whatever they put in, but have very cheap ads for the extremely small vendors that offer a limited production airplane or accessary. Support the cottage industry that is modeling.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

That's what every industry would like to do. However they have this thing that's called competition. If company U charges V, then company W will charge 1/2 V and still make a profit. Company X will charge 1/3 W and still make a profit, then Z and so forth. So whose Tower going to spend their dollars with company U or company X? Tower sets the price to MA, not the other way around. Tower says "this is what we are going to do, take it or leave it". "Afterall we are Tower Hobbies and everyone does what we do and it will help your magazine". They have power because they set the industry pricing standards in every realm of RC. Not a monopoly by any means, but very powerful.

In a monopoly these dreams can come true, but since the AMA's is not a monopoly it doesn't have this kind of controlling power or to dictate these types of pricing strategies, although some may squabble at the idea that the AMA is a monopoly. However a monopoly would have the ability to do exactly what your asking because there are no other companies for someone, like Tower Hobbies, to choose from. AMA could charge whatever they want and Tower Hobbies would have to take it or ram it.

Also a lot of people always forget, this is a hobby, but also a luxury. Luxury markets have luxury prices. Many cottage companies want to be a Tower Hobbies one day. I mean who doesn't want to live in a nice big house, with nice cars, a Beech King Air 300 and your own chef built off the fruits of their labor? But do you think Tower Hobbies wants them to all be as big as them? Nope, again, may be toys and charities to some, but to others it's big business and that's just the reality of it all. For every cottage company that raises their bar, it will lower Towers bar.

None of this is aimed at you, just to help others realize what it looks like outside the RC field. Too many people think everything should be handed to them in a luxury market.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Of course, we know that hogwash was aimed at me instead.

STL I disagree with your perception about how prices are set for advertising in MA but not worth arguing about.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

These aren't my perceptions and it doesn't matter if we are talking about MA or Fly RC magazine, rates are relative on the supply, it's not a guess, it's science why MA's rates are on, and not based on "gift's to the modeling community" like some think. Right now if you call MA you can get an ad placed there, there is not a waiting list, this is why the prices are what they are. If there was a waiting list to get into the magazine, that would be different and rates would be higher.

Oh ... by the way, advertisers have been slowing down in the MA consistently. Don't believe me ... find out for yourself, after all you should get all the answers to all the questions you want since you think you own the AMA.

But in no way shape or form could they ask for Tower to give them a penny more or less then what they would charge someone else. Unless they have a good negotiator making the deal. That my friend only a monopoly would have the power to do.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Backpedaling a bit?

Hmmm....so you agree, the AMA I own could pull it off. Why do you take this stuff so personal? Whether the AMA is or is not a monopoly has little to do with what the AMA is. You know… a rose by any other name still stinks… err…something like that.

Why not just let this monopoly thing just drop? Maybe one day the poll will swing into you favor and you can rub it in my face. Just think you could put your thumbs in your ears and wiggle your fingers and chant nah,nah, na, na, nah and make a sillier face. Otherwise, Man up and accept it for what it is now.

KidEpoxy

FlyRC magazine?
How deep in the red do they run that one?

Or more to the point-
MA has Articles, So does FlyRC
MA has Ads, So does FlyRC
MA mails to subscribers, So does FlyRC (as well as printing & distributing Hopeful Sales to vendors)

What is the Spend 200% Income feature that MA has that FlyRC doesnt? Is the DB page costing 100% revenue? Is it the Event listings costing 100% revenue? Or is MA just not getting enough revenue? Will the Event Listing Fee fix the $1mil shortfall.

$1mil in $2mil out aint how FlyRC does it.... lets do ours like they do theirs. I'm gonna have to get a copy of FlyRC and do an Ad Count of us & them.... unless someone out there will save me some bucks and do it for me

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Ummmm 160,000 subs vs 50,000 and one charges a fee and one is given away with membership. You think print charges are the same for 90,000 more copies?

Also how do you compare Fly RC to MA? You can't it's entirely different business model, even after you take away the NFP status. They don't work the same. MA is included in the price of you membership and Fly RC is a for profit privately held company. Where is the insurance that Fly RC provides and dozens of other add-ons?

If you do that you have to break out your calculator and start doing a lot of math, it's not as easy as you think. You have to factor in that there is profit in the AMA magazine through the memberships the AMA gets. The money lost in the MA is only the operating costs, but not the entire costs nor the entire revenue, just fixed operating costs for the MA, but not the bottom line MA produces for overall revenue in the AMA. For all practical purposes the MA magazine could be making millions easily based on the "perception" of the members that join the AMA for the MA magazine. Yet another member oversight on how things really work.

But as far as ad prices in the MA they are fixed on what customers will pay and how many they will get. If you raise advertisers rates in MA it will only reduce the advertisers who spend dollars, relatively, until there is a demand to get into the magazine, that is a FACT. They continue to raise rates until they see a dropoff, that is how advertising works. Right now MA is in a dropoff, they can't just raise rates at all, this is why perhaps one of the reasons they thought about paid events. To raise revenue and to get people to the website. Other failing print companies getting their butts kicked by the Internet are doing the same kind of tricks to raise revenue and to get people to the websites.

For instance the EAA charges $5500 for a full page ad and the AMA you can get it for $1000 for practically same amount of membership. Why? Demand and only demand, not because what the MA wants to set the price, but what they can get from the advertisers based on the fact there is competition or the supply. The EAA continued to raise rates until they saw a dropoff. If they don't see a dropoff, they just keep going no matter how much profit they make, or don't make.

Hoss' idea and several others of just raising rates for MA to raise revenue is 100% absurd and IMPOSSIBLE, it's a marketing fact. Raising the ad rates in the AMA for no practical reasons other then need and want is just breaking the first law of economics. Break the first law of economics in your company, no matter what the model or profit status and down the tubes you go ... head first.

KidEpoxy

And the cost of a FlyRC page ad? Since we were talking FlyRC not EEA. FlyRC is a direct competition magazine to MA, but with far less copy. What do they charge for getting a full page to 1/3 the folks MA gets to?

MA doesnt issue insurance. AMA is the organization, holding $7mil and self insuring and chartering clubs and selling hats... and bought a magazine to publish. MA is just a magazine allowed to run in the red by its parrent organization.

It would be a real shame to have MA not be full of ads, just some 48 page magazine with more District Pages, articles, construction, & events listings...... whats the worst that can happen, lose a million dollars on it?

If the revenue was $1mil, and the membership is 160k, imagine MA magazine with not a single ad for just $6 more dues a year. I'd pay that, and I'm a ramen eatin, no movie rentin, breakpad rotating, cheap baztard.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Hmmm... STL Don't you find it funny that in one instance you compare MA to other model magazines in an attempt to make a point and in the next instance you claim they can't be compared since they are different business models? In this instance you bolster my case… again! You are talking in circles. It is ok to have a veiw point but you are trying to have them all...Hmmmm... Maybe you found a market for viewpoints and you are trying to monopolize them

Got a real good chuckle out of that one.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Fly RC and MA are real close in ad rates. Within a couple hundred dollas. People are just dumb to go with Fly RC before MA because MA has more exposure. However Fly RC has more exposure on bookshelves. It really doesn't matter the ad rates for RC are cheap everywhere, not like any other industry I've ever spent ad dollars on. Again, you don't just raise ad rates to survive, impossible. Your market sets your price for ads, not you.

Parent organization? You think MA is to AMA like ABC is to Disney? Ha! No, MA is a direct ownership and part of the AMA, not a wholly owned division of. The AMA depends on MA to increase it's membership. In a wholly own subsidiary each company depends on itself as a whole to drive it's own revenue. MA does in fact sell insurance because it's directly part of the AMA, not a child company. Again ... members lose perception quickly and forget the WHOLE picture of the AMA and how it really works on the inside.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

EAA is almost identical to the AMA in structure and business model, they are even both NFP's and have same missions. Funny I saw a an AMA booth at OshKosh. Why didn't I see a Fly RC booth at OshKosh? I guess AMA and EAA have something in common???

Fly RC is brick and mortar magazine publication as a business model, cut and dry.

For those who don't understand what MA REALLY is, especially those that want this to be a driving force of revenue for the AMA, which in fact it really is, read their mission statement. MA saves a lot of money in potential lost revenue to print a free publication ad free to 160,000 members 12 times a year, plus shipping. It saves millions and is prolly the only thing holding this org together.

Model Aviation Mission Statement:
Model Aviation is the flagship publication of the Academy of Model Aeronautics. Model Aviation serves as a vehicle to accomplish the purposes of the organization and a means by which official information is distributed to the membership. Model Aviation supports the mission of the Academy of Model Aeronautics. Model Aviation strives to inspire, inform, and instruct enthusiasts who share a passion for aeromodeling. Model Aviation covers the full spectrum of aeromodeling activities, and serves as an important historical resource. Model Aviation seeks to be an information-providing leader in aeromodeling, reflecting the association's position as the world's largest sport aviation organization.

Saying MA is a child of AMA is no differnet then saying the insurance is a child of the AMA. What does the insurance cost the AMA? 1.6 million plus claims. A total loss. Get the point?

MA just a child company ... think again.