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Steve Kaluf and the AMA

Old 08-17-2007, 03:35 AM
  #26  
littlecrankshaf
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA


ORIGINAL: JorLRice

Hey guys,

If it was personal information about your own departure from an organization, you would not want it bantered around on the internet. Steve is no longer with us at AMA HQ and while some of the facts presented here are partially true, most are guesses and unsubstantiated.

The issue was discussed for a few minutes by the EC. The specifics of that discussion I am not at liberty to divulge and that is mostly out of courtesy for Steve Kaluf and Jim Cherry.

Actions such as this tear at the heart and mind of all parties. Ranting and raving does no good for anyone. I have every confidence that the AMA will rebound from this and continue to excel and I am equally confident that Steve will land on his feet and use his many talents to continue to provide for his family and the modeling public.

I hope you can all appreciate the fact that anything to do with personnel matters is taken very seriously and treated with confidence and respect. To enter into an exchange on this forum would be contrary to the employee confidence aspect all professional organizations and businesses practice.

I hope you understand regardless of what is written concerning this matter I cannot respond no matter how misleading or erroneous that information may be.

I can't discuss this further and don't think any good will be served by further discussions among yourselves.

Jim Rice
District VIII VP
Jim,

Thanks for your time to respond. You do make some very good points indeed. I for one can accept that you do not wish to expound further but I hope you can appreciate that as AMA members we feel that we at the very least deserve to know if Steve was terminated and if so by who and if so why; even if the only reason given is personal conflicts within the staff or with a superior. If Steve decided to leave on his own accord and only cites personal reasons that would suffice for most of us here also. If Steve was terminated, the reason(s) shouldn’t be a big secret.

Again, You are very right… detailed personal matters do not belong here but as matter of AMA business, actual personal reasons could be cited without further elaboration, other than that, exact reasons are not only permissible but obligatory IMO.

From what you post I get the distinct impression that there is a mutual personal conflict at the root but you stopped a little short of saying just that.

As of this moment, from what I have read, I am not sure if Steve was fired, forced to resign or resigned on his own accord. The only thing I can be certain of is that he is no longer with the AMA. That is a tremendous lose from my perspective at this moment.

I hope this does not just go under the carpet.
Old 08-17-2007, 06:42 AM
  #27  
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA

Just as many have pointed out, Steve is a smart and talented guy, and did many things for the members. But just because a person has those qualities, does not mean that person was a positive influence and good supervisor within the structure of the organization? There are many parts to a job and we do not see large sections of a person's responsibilites.

It is amazing that so many can make the comments they have with absolutely no information about anything that has transpired other than their friendship with Steve. I cannot imagine this action was not taken without due diligence, the legal issues require it.
Old 08-17-2007, 07:14 AM
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA

Well until otherwise noted, I stand behind Jim Cherry's decision, mainly because I know this organization and the membership well enough to know that there is always alot more then the eye can see.

And also in one hand we are asking for a housecleaning on the other hand we complain about it when we see it. Steve might be the greatest guy on the planet, but there may be things we don't see behind the scenes.

As far as Steve being fired for hopping on a mower, let's get real. If you believe any part of that and have half a brain, then the other half needs an overhaul.
Old 08-17-2007, 07:52 AM
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA

And also in one hand we are asking for a housecleaning on the other hand we complain about it when we see it. Steve might be the greatest guy on the planet, but there may be things we don't see behind the scenes.

I think the idea ofthe house cleaning goes higher up.
Old 08-17-2007, 08:17 AM
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA

I'm curious if Jim Cherry does in fact have the authority to summarily terminate employees without review by other officers/EC of AMA.
If so, this is an enormous amount of power for one person to have.
I'm Director of HR at a large manufacturing company and no one, including the President/owner, can just fire someone without the action being reviewed, usually by me, of the the circumstances surrounding the incident. Employees are suspended pending a review of the case. It's easier and cleaner to bring someone back from suspension that it is to rehire a wrongfully terminated employee.
Obviously, it's important to get all sides of the story and also check to insure there are no legal issues regarding race, sex, age,etc.
After the review then appropriate disciplinary action is taken.
I'm sure that AMA legal reviewed his contract, and to have included the power to unilaterally fire an employee seems very strange, not to mention the potentional of a wrongful termination lawsuit, but stranger things have happened.
Just an aside, I know better than try to get into a discussion with Dion; it's always a losing proposition since none of us know anything about anything as only he has the true knowledge. However, severance pay is used to prevent a wrongful termination lawsuit by an employee against the company. When the employee receives the severance pay package, they sign an agreement that, in consideration of the money, they waive their right to sue. There may or may not be a provision of non disclousre, usually not.
BRG,
Jon
Old 08-17-2007, 09:14 AM
  #31  
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA


ORIGINAL: F106A

I'm curious if Jim Cherry does in fact have the authority to summarily terminate employees without review by other officers/EC of AMA.
If so, this is an enormous amount of power for one person to have.
I'm Director of HR at a large manufacturing company and no one, including the President/owner, can just fire someone without the action being reviewed, usually by me, of the the circumstances surrounding the incident. Employees are suspended pending a review of the case. It's easier and cleaner to bring someone back from suspension that it is to rehire a wrongfully terminated employee.
Obviously, it's important to get all sides of the story and also check to insure there are no legal issues regarding race, sex, age,etc.
After the review then appropriate disciplinary action is taken.
I'm sure that AMA legal reviewed his contract, and to have included the power to unilaterally fire an employee seems very strange, not to mention the potentional of a wrongful termination lawsuit, but stranger things have happened.
Just an aside, I know better than try to get into a discussion with Dion; it's always a losing proposition since none of us know anything about anything as only he has the true knowledge. However, severance pay is used to prevent a wrongful termination lawsuit by an employee against the company. When the employee receives the severance pay package, they sign an agreement that, in consideration of the money, they waive their right to sue. There may or may not be a provision of non disclousre, usually not.
BRG,
Jon

Correct me if I am wrong, but unless the state is something other than an "at will" state, a non-contracted employee can be terminated for any reason whatso ever, as long as it is not race or sex related. I live in MAss, and I as an employer can terminate any employee for any reason I want as long as the employee is an "A Will" employee and I do not terminate based on sex,age, or creed. In other words if I want to fire you so I can hire my friend, I can. If I want to fire you because you are a pain in my butt, I can. I am the president of a coorporation and the siting chairman of the board of directors. I am essentially the ONLY person in the company who cannot be fired. If I termiante a manager or exec VP we typically offer severance to keep the individual quiet, not to avoid a wrongful termination lawsuit. Whic in fact a wrongful termination lawsuit is EXTREMELY difficult to prove and EXTREMELY difficult to get a lawyer to take. The temination has to be so obviouse or aggregiouse or you need someone to actually admit they terminated someone for racial or sexual predispositions....Essentially any employer in a "at will" state can fire at will. It would be up to the termianted employee to prove wrongful termiantion and the very company holds the evidence. Do you know how easy it is to write up whatever I want and stick it into a file...... Wringful termination only holds water in a contractual situation. Jim Cherry has the power, used it and it's over. If you don't like it, contact the DVP's and have them be your voice.
Old 08-17-2007, 10:04 AM
  #32  
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA

I agree that the AMA may be a public institution, however the employee relationship they have with employees is a different matter and they are not allowed by law to come here and discuss the firing or hiring of employees, on a personal level. If that employee wants to do that, he or she may do so, but an employer is bound by laws not to be able to do that, and my guess is that the AVPs will not discuss those matters either.
If they want us to know, or think we need to know, they are still bound by the law.
Most of us fail to understand that the AMA still must function as an organiziation with rules, and though they may "answer" to their constitutents in the long run, they really do not have to explain their day to day actions to us.
I wish him well, and hope he finds a new job quickly if he is looking for one.
Tommy
Old 08-17-2007, 10:21 AM
  #33  
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA

If you can't be fired, why have a Board of Directors. You are King!
Old 08-17-2007, 10:54 AM
  #34  
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA

I don't recall that I commented on whether Cherry's action was right or wrong, I was just questioning whether he has the power to terminate without a review by officers/EC.
The issue is NOT to have a wrongful suit filed in the first place. It can cost LOTS of money and time to defend a wrongful termination lawsuit even if the company is in the right. Depending on the merits of the case there are plenty of lawyers that will take wrongful termination It's true you can fire anyone for any reason but it is very prudent that the company has a paper trail documenting the case if the info is needed later on. Also, it's expensive to fire someone. You have to find a replacement, train the person for a period of time resulting in lower productivity during the search and training phase. Of course there are very good reasons for termination, but terminating an employee because you want to hire your friend does not, IMHO, make good business sense. Can you do it, sure, but why would you?
If your comapany has policy that anyone can be dismissed at any time for any reason or no reason, good for you. Not sure how you maintain a productive workforce with the threat of termination hanging over their heads, but that's your problem.
Most companies don't have that type of policy and in fact review disciplinary actions, including terminations, especially if they have a unionized workforce.
All I'm trying to find out is whether Cherry has the power to do what he did without review.
BRG,
Jon
Old 08-17-2007, 11:31 AM
  #35  
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA

I was using this as an example..I was not being literal. Of course there are replacement costs to termination. Of course we have procedures in place to terminate an employee, with written warnings etc. However, if the offense is deemed so aggregious or if I just have had it with an individual or they are not performing, i have the ability to terminate outside the procedure. As for having a B.O.D., this is a function of being incorporated, even if the B.O.D. is In name only.
I agree, the question begs to be answered does Cherry have the power....Can we see his contract?
Old 08-17-2007, 12:11 PM
  #36  
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA

Jim-

1. Thanx for posting in regards to the matter. It is good to see the D8 leadership comunicating directly with the members, timely, and on current issues before it becomes just something that happenen last month in a magazine.

2. I respectfully disagree with the base of your post.



STL-
I dont recall the Texans calling for the erradication of AMA employees that hop on mowers... If anything, we might commend getting some more tangable benefits from paying these guys: More work done for the same pay (and it was no pay / vacation so we save even more )
<IF the soundbite of a story we have is true, which is fishy at least>




While there is a time & place for restricting information of a personal or confidential type, this is a club of members and as such I a figure the leadership should not need to keep secrets from the members on operational matters. If it does come down to a personality conflict / personal problems type seperation, sure we members dont need the tabliod details but we do deserve to get 6 or 7 word explanation of Muncie actions... especially if there is a direct query on the subject to Muncie by a member (leader memeber?)

Also, I see the majority of the posts here recognize we are getting just a snip of what really happened, and qualify our posts as such. Mostly we used phrases like 'If thats true' and 'we dont have the full story, but'. We know there is a whole lot more to what happened.

...unless it really was the MidWest Mowers&Tillers Union that had him fired.
Old 08-17-2007, 12:26 PM
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA

ORIGINAL: JorLRice



The issue was discussed for a few minutes by the EC. The specifics of that discussion I am not at liberty to divulge and that is mostly out of courtesy for Steve Kaluf and Jim Cherry.

I hope you can all appreciate the fact that anything to do with personnel matters is taken very seriously and treated with confidence and respect. To enter into an exchange on this forum would be contrary to the employee confidence aspect all professional organizations and businesses practice.

I can't discuss this further and don't think any good will be served by further discussions among yourselves.

Jim Rice
District VIII VP
If any part of his salary is paid by my or any other AMA members' dues, then I feel we have every right to know the details of his alleged transgression and the reasons for his departure. Rather than expound that you are on the inside and know what happened, but just can't tell the common folk, you could spend the energy that it took to post and give the straight skinny, if indeed you know; then you wouldn't have a bunch of people making assumtions and guesses about what really happened, as well as perpetrating an increased distrust of anything the AMA "leadership" says or does. These forums make as good a place as any, and better than most, to get the word to the masses.
[/quote]
Old 08-17-2007, 12:28 PM
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA

I have to say i am torn on this issue, at one hand our right to know and on the other the privacy of an individual. If there was something there and the revelation of it could be such as to hinder this man from being able to make gainful employment. On the other hand there are issues with this that are troubling. I think that the direction of this thread might need to steer in the direction of someone recieving such authority as to totally undermine the confidence in the present system which is getting shakier by the day.

I am reminded of the words of a wise man who said " There is safety in a multitude of counselors." and another " Absolute power corrupts absolutely." I do think this may go to the heart of the struggle now for the heart of the AMA. One thing to think about, if you don't like the secretive and good ole boy mentality of AMA this is the year to change it, at the ballot box.
Old 08-17-2007, 12:46 PM
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA


ORIGINAL: JorLRice

I can't discuss this further and don't think any good will be served by further discussions among yourselves.

Jim Rice
District VIII VP
Ummm. That would go down a little better with a beverage. Perhaps STLpilot could fix us all a glass of purple Kool-Aid.
Old 08-17-2007, 12:47 PM
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA

Hoss,

Why weren't you on the ballots?

Tom
Old 08-17-2007, 01:35 PM
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA

SSRCCPREZ,

"Can we see his contract? "

I think we both know the answer to that question!

BRG,
Jon
Old 08-17-2007, 02:11 PM
  #42  
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA


ORIGINAL: RC Outlaw

I did not think Cheery was hired to cut grass
Maybe Cheery (tnx Outlaw, I like that) was hired to get HQ on a more level keel. Most seem to agree the the Competition Dept was well run. That threw the organization out of balance.

Abel
Old 08-17-2007, 02:11 PM
  #43  
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA

There is a scene in my favorite western book/movie, Elmore Leonard's classic "Valdez is Coming". El Segundo tells his boss, Mr. Tanner, "I hire them. I fire them.", and Mr Tanner is left to face Valdez alone.
Old 08-17-2007, 04:20 PM
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA


ORIGINAL: khodges

ORIGINAL: JorLRice



The issue was discussed for a few minutes by the EC. The specifics of that discussion I am not at liberty to divulge and that is mostly out of courtesy for Steve Kaluf and Jim Cherry.

I hope you can all appreciate the fact that anything to do with personnel matters is taken very seriously and treated with confidence and respect. To enter into an exchange on this forum would be contrary to the employee confidence aspect all professional organizations and businesses practice.

I can't discuss this further and don't think any good will be served by further discussions among yourselves.

Jim Rice
District VIII VP
If any part of his salary is paid by my or any other AMA members' dues, then I feel we have every right to know the details of his alleged transgression and the reasons for his departure. Rather than expound that you are on the inside and know what happened, but just can't tell the common folk, you could spend the energy that it took to post and give the straight skinny, if indeed you know; then you wouldn't have a bunch of people making assumtions and guesses about what really happened, as well as perpetrating an increased distrust of anything the AMA "leadership" says or does. These forums make as good a place as any, and better than most, to get the word to the masses.
[/quote]

I think if MR Kaluf wants everyone to know what happened he would
simply say so, otherwise untill he does everything is just speculation.
Old 08-17-2007, 10:12 PM
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA


ORIGINAL: Liberator

Hoss,

Why weren't you on the ballots?

Tom
That is a question for you to ask your DVP. The DVPs are the nominating committee and they selected the allowed 3 from their own ranks.
Item not really pertaining to this thread, but thanks for caring.
Old 08-18-2007, 10:32 AM
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA

Hi folks,

First let me say how grateful I am to read this amount of support from those of you on this forum. I sincerely appreciate it. As most of you know I don't post much unless I can add to a discussion without controversy. In this case I do think you deserve to know the complete story, I'll leave it to you to judge me.

So, here goes...

The week prior to the IRCHA Helicopter Jamboree I volunteered to mow part of the site IRCHA would be using to AMA's Maintenance Director on the upcoming Saturday. The regular crews would still be involved with the Nats and doing this would help them get the job done sooner. The Maintenance Director told me he'd appreciate the help and would have the mowers ready for my son and I.

Later in the week Jim Cherry asked me to not request the use of any equipment during the Jamboree (a week which I was on vacation) personally as he needed to track what was being used and wanted the IRCHA Event Director to make all requests. I agreed as I understood this need.

So, the Saturday morning prior to the week IRCHA started my 16 year-old son and I met a couple of the maintenance guys, got the mowers out and started down the road to the site to be used by the Jamboree. Shortly Mr. Cherry's vechicle came flying across the grass field, and stopped me. He was very angery and asked what the heck I was doing on a mower after our conversation. I attempted to explain that I had not requested the use of the mowers and had simply volunteered to help our guys out during a time they were short handed to get all that needed to be done-done. He would not listen to me at all.

After returning the mowers to the equipment barn I again attempted to talk to him, he would not listen to anything I wanted to tell him. He then asked for my key card. I asked him if he was firing me and he replied no. I asked many times if we could talk about this, he would not. I then asked when we could talk and he replied later in the day or the next day. Later that day I called Joyce Hager in an effort to talk to someone. She was in contact with Mr. Cherry, but out of town. Later Saturday night Joyce called me to tell me to meet in Mr. Cherry's office at 2:00 pm the next day (Sunday).

I arrived a bit early and was let into the building by Mr. Cherry. We went into his office, Joyce and Mary Hurn (HR) were there. Mr. Cherry got right to the point and said I had two choices, resign or be terminated. I was in shock... Again I attempted to explain that my actions were simply as a volunteer trying to help the organization he would simply not listen to any reason in the matter. I honestly begged him for my job back and told him I'd do anything he wanted...he would not hear of it and made a comment along the lines of "how would I look to bring you back now".

I have had a lot of support from various AMA Executive Council members. Many of them argued on my behalf during the Jamboree and as I understand it at the Sunday EC meeting. However the long and short of it was that they were unwilling to overturn Mr. Cherry's decision as they felt it set a dangerous precident.

On Tuesday of this past week, in order to pick up my final check I was forced to give them a resignation letter or face having a termination on my record. While I did give them the letter in my opinion I was simply fired.

I've enjoyed the 13 years at AMA and working with many of you. I'm working hard to get re-employed within the industry. This is what I know and love, I've been doing it for 25 years and don't want to stop now.

Thanks again for your support, I hope we will cross paths in the furture again.

Regards,

Steve Kaluf
Old 08-18-2007, 10:46 AM
  #47  
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA


ORIGINAL: Skaluf

Hi folks,

First let me say how grateful I am to read this amount of support from those of you on this forum. I sincerely appreciate it. As most of you know I don't post much unless I can add to a discussion without controversy. In this case I do think you deserve to know the complete story, I'll leave it to you to judge me.

So, here goes...

The week prior to the IRCHA Helicopter Jamboree I volunteered to mow part of the site IRCHA would be using to AMA's Maintenance Director on the upcoming Saturday. The regular crews would still be involved with the Nats and doing this would help them get the job done sooner. The Maintenance Director told me he'd appreciate the help and would have the mowers ready for my son and I.

Later in the week Jim Cherry asked me to not request the use of any equipment during the Jamboree (a week which I was on vacation) personally as he needed to track what was being used and wanted the IRCHA Event Director to make all requests. I agreed as I understood this need.

So, the Saturday morning prior to the week IRCHA started my 16 year-old son and I met a couple of the maintenance guys, got the mowers out and started down the road to the site to be used by the Jamboree. Shortly Mr. Cherry's vechicle came flying across the grass field, and stopped me. He was very angery and asked what the heck I was doing on a mower after our conversation. I attempted to explain that I had not requested the use of the mowers and had simply volunteered to help our guys out during a time they were short handed to get all that needed to be done-done. He would not listen to me at all.

After returning the mowers to the equipment barn I again attempted to talk to him, he would not listen to anything I wanted to tell him. He then asked for my key card. I asked him if he was firing me and he replied no. I asked many times if we could talk about this, he would not. I then asked when we could talk and he replied later in the day or the next day. Later that day I called Joyce Hager in an effort to talk to someone. She was in contact with Mr. Cherry, but out of town. Later Saturday night Joyce called me to tell me to meet in Mr. Cherry's office at 2:00 pm the next day (Sunday).

I arrived a bit early and was let into the building by Mr. Cherry. We went into his office, Joyce and Mary Hurn (HR) were there. Mr. Cherry got right to the point and said I had two choices, resign or be terminated. I was in shock... Again I attempted to explain that my actions were simply as a volunteer trying to help the organization he would simply not listen to any reason in the matter. I honestly begged him for my job back and told him I'd do anything he wanted...he would not hear of it and made a comment along the lines of "how would I look to bring you back now".

I have had a lot of support from various AMA Executive Council members. Many of them argued on my behalf during the Jamboree and as I understand it at the Sunday EC meeting. However the long and short of it was that they were unwilling to overturn Mr. Cherry's decision as they felt it set a dangerous precident.

On Tuesday of this past week, in order to pick up my final check I was forced to give them a resignation letter or face having a termination on my record. While I did give them the letter in my opinion I was simply fired.

I've enjoyed the 13 years at AMA and working with many of you. I'm working hard to get re-employed within the industry. This is what I know and love, I've been doing it for 25 years and don't want to stop now.

Thanks again for your support, I hope we will cross paths in the furture again.

Regards,

Steve Kaluf
Very sad...truly sad. About the way I figured. Thanks Steve for all you have done for us.
Old 08-18-2007, 11:05 AM
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA

I dont know any of the guys involved in this.I do know that I have my AMA app sitting here(recieved it a few days ago) awaiting a stamp to be sent in.AMA is not required where i fly,I was joining because I thought I would be doing my part to help secure the future of a hobby that I like.I watch this forum and see the bantering back and forth and write it off as "boys in mens bodies",the organization as a whole cant be that bad.I came across this and started reading.The same typical "I know and you are not getting anything from me" from the AMA backers and the "you work for me, so give it up" from the haters.The Mr.Kaluf replied with his version.
If his account is 75% true,you guys have problems that Im not sure that I want help fund.The EC members never set the record straight and seem to hide behind confidetiality rules( a sure sign that something fishy is going down).As a member,I would hope that I was entitled to know who was doing what and when and most importantly,WHY.BTW,if this was Mr. Cherry's corporation,the point of a firing would be strictly his biz,but that isnt the case,or are is it heading that way?Steve,if you ever get the urge to mow,my mower stays under the back porch and the weedeater is the shed.You dont even have to call ahead.
Old 08-18-2007, 11:18 AM
  #49  
Stubborn Mule
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA


ORIGINAL: Hossfly

ORIGINAL: JorLRice

Hey guys,
//snip//
The issue was discussed for a few minutes by the EC. The specifics of that discussion I am not at liberty to divulge and that is mostly out of courtesy for Steve Kaluf and Jim Cherry.
//snip//
I hope you can all appreciate the fact that anything to do with personnel matters is taken very seriously and treated with confidence and respect. To enter into an exchange on this forum would be contrary to the employee confidence aspect all professional organizations and businesses practice.
//snip//

I can't discuss this further and don't think any good will be served by further discussions among yourselves.

Jim Rice
District VIII VP
Spoken like a true politician, Jim. Almost like your predecessor, except you can well write sentences and paragraphs where the good doc. could only write simple word phrases.

It grieves me that you would try to subdue AMA members along with those that may consider becoming AMA members from expressing their thoughts.

The true road to dictatorship is to subdue the speech and free-thinking of the populace. Why do even the smallest political potatoes just have to keep down opposition by trying to shame and ridicule others from being forthright with their thoughts?

That is one of the main things that caused all the good-ol-boys to complain that I was difficult to work with. When I was a DVP, I kept no secrets from the membership. Really POed the "knights-of-the-square-table". That animosity still exists as you all well displayed this past Sun. 8/12/07.

Same Old Ship, Different Day! [sm=72_72.gif]

edit: spelling

Sounds to me like you're expressing sour grapes for being kept off the ballot!

Actually Horrace, the road TO dictatorship is to rouse the rabble! Something you know very well and practice. Once the dictatorship is established, then the free-thnking and speech are subdued. Again, as you well know!

I applaud Jim for attempting to maintain some professional decorum with this matter. Something I see is quite foreign and lost to some of the participants here.

Face it Horrace, you're not the white Knight Riding in to save the fair AMA damsel! Nor will you ever be! Get use to it!

The Mule
Old 08-18-2007, 11:28 AM
  #50  
KidEpoxy
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Default RE: Steve Kaluf and the AMA

"He then asked for my key card. I asked him if he was firing me and he replied no."

Maybe he didnt understand the question.



"I honestly begged him for my job back and told him I'd do anything he wanted...he would not hear of it and made a comment along the lines of "how would I look to bring you back now". "

pretty much the same he looks now... maybe a little better.


"Mr. Cherry got right to the point and said I had two choices, resign or be terminated"
I was in a similar boat once, standing in HR office with a VP telling me to quit....
"Are you firing me?" No.
"Then I'm not quitting." Well, you dont work here anymore.
"Are you firing me?" No.
"Well I'm not quitting... you are going to have to fire me, and the try to find something I did wrong to back it up."
... like this case, it was one executive making a rash snap call (changing the locks 2hrs after I left previous day because they didnt take my keys) and the HR dept had to try to clean up the mess. The funny thing was, I was the IT guy that set up all the network security & telecomuters... I could have still done an absurd amount of damage to that company if I were a man of lesser character.


Well, I guess I was wrong anout the Mowers Union
Best wishes Steve, Dont know who you are or what you do, but anybody that hops on a mower to help out is OK in my book.
<excl STL & Cherry >

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