RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I'm going to step in here for a second on this note from Red. I don't think there is a lynch mob going on here. What I see is the membership of the AMA wondering what happened. I don't see any rules being broken in the way that they are asking what happened. If there were other circumstances involved with the release of Mr. Kaluf then the leadership of the AMA needs to find a way to relay that information to the membership legally. As of right now it appears to the members that Muncie has put up a smoke screen and isn't saying anything else. So with this lack of information all they can do is hear what Steve said and speculate the rest. As long as the rules of RCU aren't broken in this thread I'm inclined to let it run.

Ken

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

"prudent" isn't the right word, insert "brow beaten", "subserviant", "intimidated", "timid", etc. The right thing to do is to set the record straight and to get the truth out. The sheepish thing to do is to just let it blow away.
Jim Cherry should be chiming in here any minute now. It takes more time to make up a good story than it does to tell the truth.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Wait a minute, are we to assume that Steve Kaluf did not give the entire story? I believe every word Steve said, except for his hearsay comments. What is there to deduce, he found a loophole in conflict to the direction of the ED. Enough for a firing? Well that's not for us to decide. Only one resume and interview made it all the way past the AMA's screening board, and we have one chief the rest of us are just the litle indians, errr Native Americans. And of course some of us are Texans, which is neither us nor Native Americans.

No matter what story we hear from JC, we'll never hear the parts LEADING UP to those particular events, a man of his position would never do something like that. So I guess we'll all just assume that Steve's record was perfect up to the day he tried to cut the grass. So why do we need to hear JC's side of the story? If you feel JC did wrong, then help to have him voted out, IT CAN BE DONE. But I have a funny feeling that it won't be as easy to do as you think. Not because he's a demigod, because he just, just maybe might have had the ground to take course of action.

jonkoppisch

My Feedback: (162)

Hey, just curious what happened to the ama's maintenance director that Steve volunteered to? Did he get fired as well? Shouldn't he have known better? Didn't he know that it wasn't right for an ama employee to volunteer and help?? Evidently that was where everything came to a head. There doesn't seem to be any dispute about that being the major confrontation point which later resulted in a trip to the office.... HMMMMMMM, sounds like a conspiracy to me

abel_pranger

Not knowing everything as you do, Dion, please elaborate. How do we vote an AMA contract employee out? When does his contract end? I have a funny feeling it wont be as easy to do as you infer with the "IT CAN BE DONE" hoopla.

Abel

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

So who here thinks that Jim Cherry has no need to justify his actions to us?

He works FOR us, WE are his BOSSES. His business is our business.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Who said we? I said help to have him voted out. The Executive Council shall have the authority to supervise the affairs of the AMA and to establish policies.

I mean if a man can fire a guy for simply riding a lawnmower ... shouldn't be to hard to remove a person for removing a person who rode a lawnmower.

Stubborn Mule

I do believe JC works for the EC. And the EC works for the membership. And it takes little research to see how well the membership controls its volunteer employees!

But I do suspect we've not heard the entire story. From either side! And I doubt we ever will!

The Mule

abel_pranger

Jim-

Something vaguely familiar about that management technique - had to cogitate a while before it came back to me.

From Wiki: "Decimation A military unit selected for punishment by decimation was divided into groups of ten; each group cast lots, and the soldier on whom the lot fell was executed by his nine comrades, often by stoning or clubbing. The remaining soldiers were given rations of barley instead of wheat and forced to sleep outside of the Roman encampment.

Because the punishment fell by lot, all soldiers in the selected cohort were eligible for execution, regardless of rank or distinction. As a result, the threat of decimation inspired fear and resolve in the Roman Legions. However, because a decimation significantly reduced the troop strength of an army, it is believed that the punishment was rarely used."

I think decimation is generally considered rather rude these days - though a revival of sorts in some industry circles known as "rank and yank" has had a small cadre of CEOs that seem to enjoy the notoriety their ruthlessness brings them. Perhaps your boss and a principal in this drama are of that ilk.

Abel

Live Wire

Lawn Mowers and CEO's Sound like home

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

I agree, let the thread run, but what do you call a group that is ready to hang an individual only after hearing one side of a story?

Live Wire

Red
That could get interesting for both sides

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Red,
I call them a group that wants to hear the other side of the story. Yes, I do see them angry at the leadership in Muncie. That's because the leadership in Muncie won't speak up to say what happened. I see a group of people that would like an answer from the people in Muncie that supposedly work for them. That's what I see here.

Ken

JUGFLIER

When the executive types want to take credit for something that goes right, they normally say, "thats why i get paid the big bucks."

Ok, so now what is wrong with holding these kinds of people equally accountable when their actions directly cause negative affects?
The above quote is from the post by SKALUF. 13 year employee. And Red, i really am not worried about politics so much as i am right and wrong. It is my understanding from Steve's post that the maintenance director should have had this taken care of. This man has children, he has worked many years for the benefit of AMA. But to satisfy the ego of a man who was mopre concerned about his own appearance than either doing what was best for AMA or what was even best for Steve's family. All he had ever done for AMA is thrown out simply so someone can make their own principle. We are not talking about mismanagement, theft, incompetence,but volunteering to mow grass to help those involved get ready for an upcoming event. This is so sad, but i have seen a lot of this kind of selfish type of thing and frankly wonder what we are coming to.

This is 2007, we have the internet, AMA can no longer hunker down behind their rock walls and conduct business by clandestine late nite meetings. This one someone has to come forth and explain to the membership.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

I certainly hope you are not taking this out of the context of what Steve claimed by saying JC won't take him back because of the statment "how will that make me look now". If so this is exactly why Steve did not post what Jim said versus what Steve assumed Jim said. Otherwise we have a clear case of assumed guilty before presumed innocent. Not saying that Jim didn't say that what Steve is claiming, but it's better not to say anything then to say something "along the lines of". We are not talking about opinons here, we are talking about the facts and 2 persons lives are at stake.

Hossfly

Please disregard the RCU default of reply to STL as this is just a general information reply.

First, I have known Steve Kaluf, mostly on a business type relationship for as long as he has been with AMA. Early on we had our "disagreements", however as time passed, Steve organized his Competition Department into a department where one could get any information one needed. He did some things that I certainly disagreed with. One being the STOP of printing new rule-books when contest rules changed. Now Steve MAY or may NOT have been behind that however he never blamed the Ex. Dir. or the EC. He simply stated the reasons for it and if heat came Steve took the heat. He was like that on several things along the way. Actually I grew to respect and admire his dedication to his work, regardless of how we might differ. He will be difficult to replace, especially as the Technical Director.

Now here are some quotes from AMA EC minutes. These minutes are for public inspection on the AMA web site and are NOT reserved for members only.

Here is a rub! At the AMA "Big Event" in Waco, TX, 08-05, I was told face to face, one-on-one by the person that should really know, that there was no request made for any alternate assignment, just take one or go. This statement confirmed to me that there are published official records that are not always true. (I remember a big one from 11-'81 )

Now for you that were around a couple years ago, you may well remember all the MA hype by one EC member about how lucky AMA was to get Don Koranda.

Then comes the long hunt last year and Don Cherry becomes the new Ex. Director. He made some changes right off, one that I thought was long overdue. From my stand-off position, I think he is doing a fine job, however I do not have all the facts about this incident. It is a puzzle to me.
I am convinced that there is more to the story than is being told. I am well aware that there cannot be a lot said until the dust settles a bit, yet I resent those that tell me that I should sit and keep my mouth shut. Such just does not settle well with this one who has been an AMA member for some 55 +/- years and performed volunteer work with considerable out-of pocket expense for 48 of those years, participating and promoting this sport.

It is easy to get a little testy when a new boss is hired off the street. It is easy for the new boss to wish to make his position known.


This is the prescribed order of management: AMA Bylaws:

Article X
Section 7. The Executive Director shall be the Chief Operating Officer of
the AMA. He shall be directly responsible to the Executive Council for the
operation of the AMA Headquarters staff and for the conduct of AMA
business.

Article XI

ARTICLE XI
Executive Council
Section 1. The management of the affairs of the AMA shall be vested in a
governing body, to be known as the Executive Council.

Section 3. The Executive Council shall have the authority to supervise the
affairs of the AMA and to establish policies.

Section 5. Decisions of policy shall not be at variance with the stated
purposes and objectives of the Bylaws or the Articles of Incorporation of
the AMA.
----------------------------------------

That pretty well says that the EC establishes policy, the ED carries out that policy and is responsible to the EC for conducting such.

That brings out the big RUB. The AMA membership has refused to make the EC responsible to that membership.

JUGFLIER

Which goes back to the issue, if the EC asks Cherry to reconsider and he refuses, then who is running AMA? Looks as if the rumor may be true, mainly that Cherry has in his contract the right to hire and fire at will and that he makes all the decisions he thinks is pertinant to the administration of AMA and the executive council has a take it all or leave it all option, ergo keep Cherry and put up with his personality flaws or fire him and buy out a big contract. If this is in fact the decision that the EC has to deal with then they basically did not follow AMA by-laws when they entered into the contract with Cherry.

As i read it.


I notice that JorlRice is viewing this thread. Now that SKALUF has posted, does he want to correct any part of the record?

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

After reading all the posts in this thread, I am almost without words.

It seems the “system” is indeed broken. There has been more than ample opportunity for a rebuttal of Steve’s accounts of what transpired. I can only assume some serious word-smithing is taking place right now for an “official statement” or no statement at all will be given. It is a sad affair when the membership is denied the insight necessary to understand it’s own operation. There are a few here that are indeed very hypocritical…they tell us often that the AMA is a “membership organization” but at the same time, out of the other side of their mouth, they tell us this incident should be scored as a business decision without need for explanation to the members and we should just wait and see how the future unfolds. Hmmm… I guess it may not be exactly an irony but the misconception of these few, that think the AMA is divine, is apathetic to say the least or purely full of... er…well... getting carried away again.

I guess I am just rambling on now but this incident has made me more concerned about the state of the AMA than just about any other thread in this forum…And there have been quite a few that got my hackles up. I have been posting here since just about the beginning of RCU…before the screen names could be long enough to allow the “t” that normally would be at the end of my user name… and I am totally appalled that such a thing could have transpired even remotely as Steve has indicted. This type of tyranny could be directed at anyone of us, upper echelon or further down on the food chain or even one of our clubs if not put in check. I guess the suckups and brown-noses would get a free pass but the rest of us hang in the balance. Wow! Another epiphany…that is why the suckups suckup. Super sucking protection power. Yea baby.

Seriously, we need a concerted effort to insure the AMA does not just sweep this one under the carpet. We need to find a way for complete accountability. Of course, the usual stuff (contacting such and such) is doable but the circle file or delete function is too easy now days. Any real ideas?

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

in response to somebody who asked, if anyone here did not have a problem with what mr c has done, i am that anyone.

the boss is the boss, even when the boss may be wrong.
unofficial insider info tells me that this is more than a one incident affair, but rather the culmination of an ongoing thing. as in, the last straw.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Mongo, I have considered that this has been a "last straw" type deal, but regardless.......you don't fire a guy over riding a lawn mower. If JC and SK had some sort of irreconcilable differences, JC needed a more substantial reason to give him the heave-ho. As it stands, it looks like JC was grabbing at straws. I want to see an itemized list that outlines Jim Cherrys' reason for firing Steve Kaluf. I want to see the list and I want to see the timeline of events.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Mongo,

You may very well be right but without even a hint of any previous disciplinary action illuminated thus far this would still be an extreme response for such an innocuous incident even if such assertions were true. A simple statement from a credible source to that history would alleviate much consternation. As members of this organization I think we are due such a courtesy. Our hobby/sport is a bit unique so it is only fitting that “our company man” should be uniquely responsive and share a bit more with us. He does have the last word (last page) in the MA and shares his other viewpoints regularly whether we want them or not…now is good time to talk and dispel erroneous notions if they do exists.

After all the AMA isn’t a fortune 500 company and should not aspire to be one…the goal is promoting the hobby/sport or something like that, I heard one time years ago…

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

First off the guy just didn't ride a lawnmower. In a perfect world, he just rode a lawnmower. And some people are really stretching the value of their $58 to get what they want from the AMA. But I don't think you'll get all the facts the way you want them, it may hurt someone other then the people that MUST need to know. You want JC to answer to you, then take his job, otherwise he'll serve his members interests when he thinks it's right.

Steve told his side of the story and I believe him. In fact if so many people think he's this great guy, then why do we need to hear another word from anyone? Still not good enough for you and the rest of the people who want JC out of the AMA? If Steve is your friend and you think JC should be fired, then help JC be removed. Otherwise all we have are a bunch of smack talkers that won't help a friend in need.

The only thing I can't understand is why so many others are so quick to jump on JC and to judge him while asking for his version of the truth at the same time. That makes no sense. Who is hurting the AMA, the guy dong his job or the people throwing the boss under the bus because a guy "was riding a lawnmower".

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Then what's the point of having an ED? Who is supposed to be in charge of the people at AMA HQ, the EC? Yeah that will go over well. Imagine owning a company where the person that can fire someone only comes into the office once a month for a meeting and is made of a group of guys that need to take 3 months to do a motion, pass, approve, amend blah blah any action. Yeah that will motivate your employees to get the job done AND right the first time.

They hired JC and ED's based on their profesional resume to run the operations, this is why he's the COO of the AMA and not based on how he flies an airplane and wins a crowd over. And if that person is in charge, then that certainly gives him the power to fire on his judgement. Otherwise there is no use of having him there.

And if the EC takes that power away, which they can, they might as well take away the ED. Try telling the new boss of a company that he can't hire and fire at will. You are the boss, however you just can't use a bosses most entrusted power.

It's like that thing with Obama when he said, we shouldn't use nukes against Pakistan. Ummm we shouldn't use nukes against our enemies. Great Obama, then why do we have them?

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Steve, if you're still reading this, best of luck. You've done a lot of great work for the hobby and it was nice having a chopper guy on the inside. I got laid off from a decent job a few years ago. I was devistated as I thought I really was where I wanted to be in life at the time. Looking back now its the best thing that ever happened to me, I thought about sending my old boss a card telling him I was making more money than him now and thanking him for giving me the boot

Now...my take on the business side of things, and the one thing that nobody has commented that concerns me the most.
Was the 16 year old son an employee of the AMA? Would he have been covered with insurance if something had happened? We aren't talking about a kid grabbing a weed whacker here, we are talking about a minor, operating what I'm sure is commercial grade potentially dangerous equipment, owned by the assocation.

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Also, if the EC overturns JC what power would he have over anyone that works there that is bud's with a few members of the EC? He tells them to do or not do something and they do as they please? Thats not good for anyone.