Gizmo-RCU

My Feedback: (27)

STLPilot,
Sounds like you are running for a political office? I am on the NO CALL (phone) list and by selling my name I view it as about the same type of un-wanted intrusion. I could give a rip about my name in a directory.[:@]

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

So you mean I'm not trying to rant and rave on how the EC doesn't know how to make any kind decisions on their own? Or not trying to rowl up my 10 groupies that follow me around by the heels? That's not being a politician???

So what your saying instead I'm taknig the time to help my fellow AMA memebers understand what the intended purpose of the Harris Directory instead? That makes me more like a policitican and just not a happy AMA member???

I swear sometimes I just don't understand this org. Luckily I belong to several others to keep my life in check with reality vs. inhumanity. One of these days I need to by some lab rats and lab monkeys and really evaluate what they put in that glow fuel that creates so much madness in this hobby. If that fails I'll just move on to CA glue to see if that is the culprit.

Gizmo-RCU

My Feedback: (27)

You don't make sense when you are upset, not sure what you were trying to say in the last post?

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Upset ... nah ... just looking forward to getting my new directory do I can OCR all the names out of it and send everyone piles and piles of junk mail.

JUGFLIER

Somebody help me. Has it been since Jim Cherry came into his position that we get all these little mom and pop methods of patting AMA's bottom line? Is this stuff from his days in all those chambers of commerces that he worked in?

AERORICH73

Ok fellows, I missed where the sanctioning body is attempting to promote the hobby. Could someone please point out where this attempt to promote the hobby is located, and what is being promoted? I believe the AMA could just burn a CD with all the members listed for sale at around $5.-.

Rich S.

G-Pete

Today I called Harris Connect today and ask for the removal of my name and e-mail address in THEIR directory.

They asked me how much I make if I’m married have a house and more personal info. I can’t see any relationship between a Hobby and these kinds of questions.
This questionnaire was more focused on marketing then on if I scratch build or not…

I took a look at the privacy policy of the AMA and was surprised to read

Quote:
Data Sharing And Transfer
The AMA does not sell, transfer or disclose personally-identifiable information gathered at the AMA’s Web site to third parties without a parent’s prior consent. There are only two exceptions to this rule: (1) In cases where we believe in good faith that it is necessary to disclose such information to prevent a crime or an injury to ourselves or to third parties; and (2) The AMA discloses information to third parties who provide support services to us, as described below.

There may be times when we share aggregate information about our visitors (e.g., the percentage of male and female visitors to our site) with advertisers, business partners, sponsors and other third parties in an effort to customize or enhance the content and advertising of our site to potential users. We may also collect aggregate data from Web log files (such as your Web browser, operating system, pages visited, etc.) to understand how users navigate the site and what features are most popular, and we may share this information with third parties as well.
and on the bottom:
Quote:
Changes And Updates To The Privacy Policy
The AMA Web site’s content and features may be updated, revised, modified and supplemented. The AMA reserves the right to change the information, features, products, policies, promotions, disclosures and disclaimers that are in use at any time. Changes to this Privacy Policy will be posted on our Web site, so please check the Policy periodically. The continued use of the AMA Web site following the posting of changes to this Privacy Policy will mean you accept these changes. This Privacy Policy was last updated on May 15, 2007

WOW


This kicks the door wide open



With other words: If someone sponsors the AMA, like with a sum of money so they can advertise more or largely – the AMA shares the membership info with them…….


Merry Christmas


G-Pete

Capgains

My Feedback: (4)

Well, yeah.... most privacy policies have what they refer to as affiliated interests, and yes, it can mean as little as contributing or buying advertising to become affiliated.

The trick is not to give them more information than you really want then to have. So for instance... if the AMA gave Harris your information that is all they have. But... if it is like telemarketer laws, if you call them answering the invitation to be in the directory, you fall into a new catagory. You effectively become a callable client or prospect to them from that point on, until you contact them and say "Put me on your DO NOT CALL LIST" Unless you do that, they can call you, sell your name to another "affiliate" etc. So by responding to their inquiry you have actually "expressed interest". Once you do that, they can continue to bother you.

Further, if you give them more information, then you make yourself more valuable when they go to sell your record to someone else.

So what does the AMA have on you? Your name, your address, phone number, email address, and your AMA number. Three of those things you can get from a phone book, four of them you can probably find on Google, and as for your AMA number..... who cares?

Harris is not making money by putting directories together.... they are in the information business. The directory is a piece of bait to gather information (Why else would they ask you those questions for information that is not going to be in the directory?) They will make more money selling your information to someone else than building a stupid book.

I get calls from companies wanting to sell me lists of individuals that meet certain criteria all the time. Where do you think these companies get their information from?

Don't respond, and don't answer questions

G-Pete

…plus date of birth!

As I said that is marketing 101. You create a potential customer list based on
Age
Occupation
Household income
Home
Relation status
Children

The cherry on that is all the data are correct because the AMA has the function as insurance therefore the member makes no false statements to not void the insurance coverage.



BTW: If you pay your dues per check they know your account number and bank. If you pay per credit card they know now your CC number….


Now the next question is: Is that private (AMA) policy legal for an insurance company?
They would NEVER get my real DOB – I submitted this info in good faith…..


Just something to think about…..


Happy landings

G-Pete

PS: I think the AMA just gave a bunch of people a reason NOT to join the AMA

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Let me guess, but I assume your staying, just speaking on behalf of others? Sounds like Al Gore touting his global warming initiative in his new Gulf Stream.

Why would someone not want to join the AMA because the AMA partnered up with a company who provides a directory of members who voluntarily signed up for the program and want to be listed in the directory????

Gizmo-RCU

My Feedback: (27)

I joined AMA years ago and assumed that they were only interested in the Hobby and related interests. They have now joined the business world and sold me out.
I value my privicy and do not want my information given or sold to others, I guess 34 years in Law Enforcement does this a person?
Our club flies in a State Park and cannot regulate others from flying there. We had a serious safty problem with an AMA member who was most likley affected with a serious health problem (vision) . He is not a member but flew in violation to AMA rules......hovering within several feet of the flight station, over the field, etc..
This was brought to the attention of out District Vice President and Jim Cherry. They put it right back on us to take action, we cannot regulate non-members and they know it.
Shortly thereafter they purchased insurance to cover Vicarious liability to cover their backsides in such situations.
The result is that our club has voted to drop out of the "Gold Leader" program and in general keep AMA out of our business as much as possible.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Well I'm curious, what did you expect the AMA to do?

Edit to add ... and in regards to being sold out ... have no fear, the AMA only sold out those asking to be sold out.

G-Pete

Well, we have here a lot fields around here they fly without AMA sanction. I know at least 30 pilots who are not members of the AMA and they read on regular base the RCU posts. These Gentleman have now one reason more not to join - my assumption.

I just have this feeling that "directory thang" went a little overboard.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a strong supporter of the AMA and you find me on their donations list - but I think they went in a wrong direction of the road. I see as a certified Instructor the value of the AMA. But i don't have to agree with all their actions....


Happy landings

G-Pete

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

So, is it true that Parkflyers are getting there own directory???

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Yes, I believe so, they are AMA members as well. They even get the program at half price to boot!

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Let me re-phrase "their own SEPERATE directory"?

Gizmo-RCU

My Feedback: (27)

SLP

I sorta expected some help in resolving the problem as the violations were in direct conflict with AMA posted rules. Instead they turned it all back on us.
Guess as long as I pay my dues and don't expect anything else all will be well until someone gets hit with a errant model.........

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

But the AMA doesn't make ANY rules. The rules come from the landowners in your case a park and some say soon from the FAA.

There are a lot of people that sit here day in an out about how controlling the AMA is on it's members, but to put the squeeze on ordinary civilians who are following park rules, that's certainly kicking up a notch.

Why didn't you just approach your parks and ask them to create a set of rules in conjunction with the AMA safety code? Afterall it's the parks decision for the loose set of rules, it's their responsibility, not the AMA's. The AMA isn't in the real estate business. If you were to approach parks dept and inform them of a potential danger in their park, they'd listen. If they didn't listen to you, send someone else.

Every public park where I've ever flown which has a designated flying field and AMA club has always stated. PARK RULES: You must fly utilizing the AMA safety code. Then the AMA safety code becomes park rules, instead of just being guidelines for insurance protection. Problem solved.

Capgains

My Feedback: (4)

Back on topic of the directory, this passing of names from AMA is nothing new. Haven't you received an application for an AMA Visa Card yet? Or remember the DVDs that got sent to you free? Or what about the solicitations from RC magazines. This has been going on for years. But it isn't just AMA.... It's every credit card you apply for, every product you fill out the "Warantee card" for, every peice of software you register, every advertisement link you click on. It is virtually impossible to not pass your information on to someone else. Just use your head, and God forbid don't ever fill out one of those emails from your bank, paypal, ebay or whoever that they need to verify your information. And also, it's impossible to win the European Lotto if you didn't by a ticket or hide contents of the Nigerian National Treasury with the help of the Secretary's wife's roomate's third cousin twice removed.... and your bank account.

Gizmo-RCU

My Feedback: (27)

Actually we are way ahead of you, as Club President I was successful in having the parks accept AMA rules as park rules. As there is a potential for any AMA member being injured or a large claim against AMA it was brought to their attention. The response was dismal, HOT POTATO, it's not our problem "we insure them as we get them", Interesting that they soon obtained insurance for Vicarious Liability. Thats for when you know of a problem and take no action to stop it............Slick huh?

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Well I still wonder what you wanted the AMA to do, other then just say you needed help. If you need help, you need a plan. What was the plan?

There's nothing the AMA could do. They cannot enforce, override or even request that your Parks department make or change any kind of rules, it's none of their business.

The AMA safety code is never rules. You'll never see the words "rules or regulations" associated with the safety code for obvious reasons. The AMA created the safety code so that it could also be adopted as a set of rules, as well as insurance guidelines. If your parks department frowned at the idea of the safety code as their rules, then someone didn't make a proper presentation to the parks director. Next time show him that video of that 40% plane flying into a crowd killing those 2 spectators.

The Toolman

Nothing like getting the park board all fired up about flying, is there? That ought to really cinch the deal for'em.
They'll probably put a stop to the whole thing after they see that.

Only you would think of pulling some stunt like that...


Ronnie

Capgains

My Feedback: (4)

Now you see the problem with having a pubic use area as your site. Because it is public use, it is assumed that anyone can use it, regardless of having AMA membership or following the code. We have a field that is located on a public piece of land, however we are leasing it from the City, and thus have the ability to control who uses it (members only) rules of the site, and a method of revoking membership via the by laws of the organization. If someone were to trespass, we have the ability to call on the City Police.

Since you got the Park to accept the code as your rules, who enforces enfractions in the park?

By the way, this thread is way off topic now. I wouldn't be surprised if a Moderator were to step in and suggest moving and starting this thread in a different area.

The Toolman

Whew, I feel sorry them people. I bet their tickled to death to have you with'em.LMAO

If you belong to so many other orgs, how come you spend almost ever waking minute here on this forum?


Ronnie

PLANE JIM

My Feedback: (109)

So does he have a new screen name??