Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > AMA Discussions
Reload this Page >

Membership Directory?

Notices
AMA Discussions Discuss AMA policies, decisions & any other AMA related topics here.

Membership Directory?

Old 12-15-2007, 11:09 PM
  #76  
Stickbuilder
 
Stickbuilder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Leesburg, FL
Posts: 8,678
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?

DION,

HOW MUCH MONEY SHOULD WE CHARGE THE PARK FLYERS TO BE ABLE TO USE OUR CLUB FACILITY? YOU WON'T ANSWER MY QUESTION IN THE OTHER THREAD, SO I WILL FOLLOW YOU AROUND THE VARIOUS AMA THREADS AND AGGRAVATE YOU UNTIL YOU DO ANSWER ME. WHAT IS YOUR PERSONAL OPINION ON THIS, PUT A DOLLAR FIGURE ON IT. TODAY PLEASE. PROVE TO EVERYONE THAT YOU CAN DO IT.

BILL, AMA 4720


the caps were intentional. I want you to see what I wrote. I want everyone else to know that you won't answer a direct question without being able to put that special Dion spin on it. What a phony.
Old 01-02-2008, 08:35 PM
  #77  
WhoDaMan
My Feedback: (164)
 
WhoDaMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Davis, CA
Posts: 4,243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?

From what I was told when I called and it stated 60 thousand of these were sent out at 90 bucks a piece, Hmmmmmm how much will they me making, Who's family member is involved in this one.
Old 01-02-2008, 08:54 PM
  #78  
The Toolman
Senior Member
 
The Toolman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: The Ozarks, MO
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?


ORIGINAL: WhoDaMan

From what I was told when I called and it stated 60 thousand of these were sent out at 90 bucks a piece, Hmmmmmm how much will they me making, Who's family member is involved in this one.

I was in county politics around here for 5 years, an from what I seen you can bet your last buck that somebodys family member or buddy is hooked up with this someway or another. Greed rules more big orgs/corps than ever now days.
Old 01-03-2008, 08:19 PM
  #79  
Al Lewis
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Port Orchard WA
Posts: 1,791
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?

In my opinion it's beginning to sound like we may have an organization out of check. Do what you like, drag in the bucks, who knows where they go and, if they ask, tell them it's none of their business. How many more "schemes" are these people going to come up with and exactly what, if anything, do they have to do with promoting the hobby. Sounds more like promoting private bank accounts to me. Just my opinion but wouldn't it be nice to know what, if any, family and friend associations exist between these schemes and our "elected" officials.
Old 01-03-2008, 09:41 PM
  #80  
STLPilot
Senior Member
My Feedback: (21)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan, NY
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?


ORIGINAL: The Toolman
I was in county politics around here for 5 years, an from what I seen you can bet your last buck that somebodys family member or buddy is hooked up with this someway or another. Greed rules more big orgs/corps than ever now days.
You're exactly right this time. In this case the AMA was paid $40,000 to provide Harris a list of our phone numbers and email addresses to find out who wants to sign up for the directory.

But I can assure you that Harris has sold a lot more then 60k copies of their directory. But at $90 a pop you think it's pure profit? If you only knew what it cost to produce and ARF in China. Or how about a glow plug, prolly about the same price you pay for a piece of gum in a gumball machine. But what many forget is all the other money one has to spend to bring a product, even a directory to market. How much does it cost to produce a $90 ARF, roughly $15. Ask me how I know.
Old 01-03-2008, 11:16 PM
  #81  
Gizmo-RCU
My Feedback: (27)
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Athol, ID
Posts: 2,155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?

Al,
I agree, I would like an accounting of what AMA receives out of this "deal"? Never liked the approch that the membership is not smart enough to understand what we are doing for them. Been there, done that.
Old 01-03-2008, 11:41 PM
  #82  
Al Lewis
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Port Orchard WA
Posts: 1,791
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?

Posted in error.
Old 01-04-2008, 08:48 AM
  #83  
STLPilot
Senior Member
My Feedback: (21)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan, NY
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?

Is a name, email address, and phone number constitute personal information under the act? Obviously the AMA only gave Harris limited information to contact you, so that you can VOLUNTARILY give up any and all personal information if you so choose, or not so choose.

The AMA did not break any laws, do you have any idea how many organizations utilize Harris directory? Do you actually think each one is as dumb as the next?

If what you believe is actually true, then why are you wasting your time posting all this information here? Perhaps a call to the authorities might be more in line with your effort?
Old 01-04-2008, 10:19 AM
  #84  
Al Lewis
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Port Orchard WA
Posts: 1,791
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?

I just posted this to inform folks of what might be happening to them based on what I've read from the other members posting here. Is giving out just that information illegal under the law? I don't know that it is. I do know that it is a violation for any member of the Federal Government to give that information out. I could be totally wrong but I'm sure if you wanted to make a quick call, or send and e-mail, asking the question of the U.S. Department of Justice or your State Attorney General they could certainly tell you. Is that what happen? I don't know that it did. If people that took part in the program feel that their right to privacy was violated then this might be a recourse for them, it might not. We won't know unless someone pushes it. Personally, I don't care enough to do that as I didn't take part in the program.

ORIGINAL: P-561B

They got their information from the AMA, thats enough involvement for me. I don't want to have anything about me published in Harriss listing period. AMA should not have provided my information to them in the first place PERIOD.
Old 01-04-2008, 10:20 AM
  #85  
STLPilot
Senior Member
My Feedback: (21)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan, NY
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?


ORIGINAL: Al Lewis

Yeah, this one could probably be looked into under the Privacy Act. If they are soliciting information under false pretenses for profit I'm pretty sure that would fit under one of the categories. For those people that argue they aren't, when, if ever, did they tell you they were going to sell your personal information that they collected under the guise of creating a "club directory" for their profit? It should have been stated clearly in a disclaimer in the first part of the phone conversation. If it wasn't then the below may apply.



National Privacy Principles (Extracted from the Privacy Amendment (Private Sector) Act 2000)


1. Collection
1.1 An organisation must not collect personal information unless the information is necessary for one or more of its functions or activities.

1.2 An organisation must collect personal information only by lawful and fair means and not in an unreasonably intrusive way.

1.3 At or before the time (or, if that is not practicable, as soon as practicable after) an organisation collects personal information about an individual from the individual, the organisation must take reasonable steps to ensure that the individual is aware of:
(a) the identity of the organisation and how to contact it; and

(b) the fact that he or she is able to gain access to the information; and

(c) the purposes for which the information is collected; and

(d) the organisations (or the types of organisations) to which the organisation usually discloses information of that kind;
and

(e) any law that requires the particular information to be collected; and

(f) the main consequences (if any) for the individual if all or part of the information is not provided.

Do you realize you Googled an Act governed under Australian law and not American?

http://www.privacy.gov.au/publications/npps01.html
Old 01-04-2008, 10:35 AM
  #86  
Al Lewis
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Port Orchard WA
Posts: 1,791
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?

My mistake. I apoligize for the error but remind you that there are also a large number of state laws and state constitutions that may address what was done here. It may turn out to be totally legimate. What it does not do, in my opinion, is instill confidence and trust in its membership. BTW teh AMA 2008 Airshow is in Ontario. Wanna check out their privacy laws???

Old 01-04-2008, 10:50 AM
  #87  
STLPilot
Senior Member
My Feedback: (21)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan, NY
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?


ORIGINAL: Al Lewis

Do you realize this is a world wide web site and a world wide organization???? AMA = Academy of Model Aeronautics NOT American!!


From their web site


What is the AMA?
AMA is the Academy of Model Aeronautics.
AMA is the world's largest sport aviation organization, representing a membership of more than 170,000 from every walk of life, income level and age group.
AMA is a self-supporting, non-profit organization whose purpose is to promote development of model aviation as a recognized sport and worthwhile recreation activity.
AMA is an organization open to anyone interested in model aviation.
AMA is the official national body for model aviation in the United States. AMA sanctions more than a thousand model competitions throughout the country each year, and certifies official model flying records on a national and international level.
AMA is the organizer of the annual National Aeromodeling Championships, the world's largest model airplane competition.
AMA is the chartering organization for more than 2,500 model airplane clubs across the country. AMA offers its chartered clubs official contest sanction, insurance, and assistance in getting and keeping flying sites.
AMA is the voice of its membership, providing liaison with the Federal Aviation Administration, the Federal Communications Commission, and other government agencies through our national headquarters in Muncie, Indiana. AMA also works with local governments, zoning boards, and parks departments to promote the interests of local chartered clubs.
AMA is an associate member of the National Aeronautic Association. Through NAA, AMA is recognized by the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI), the world governing body of all aviation activity, as the only organization which may direct U.S. participation in international aeromodeling activities.
Fair enough, the AMA could be held liable under Autralian law??? I guess you could argue that. I didn't think you may have made a mistake, so I'll just take your word for it.

However the AMA is a not profit corporation, so they could never be liable for the Act under the Australian law. Nobody nor the AMA as a whole profits from anything under American not for profit corporation laws. The money the AMA brings in is revenue, which much be utilized for it's mission, not for it's personal piggy bank.

OK, now this is getting silly, any way you can find some American privacy laws out there in cyberspace? You should know by now America is the loosey goosey country when it comes to privacy laws. Much less then the world average.
Old 01-04-2008, 11:59 AM
  #88  
littlecrankshaf
My Feedback: (58)
 
littlecrankshaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: here
Posts: 5,413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?


ORIGINAL: STLPilot


The money the AMA brings in is revenue, which much be utilized for it's mission, not for it's personal piggy bank.

Although there will always be those that defend otherwise…regardless of the laws here or there or anywhere, AMA could have taken the high road and simply advertised their intent to produce a member’s directory themselves via their captive audience…Remember MA???… They could of included other information such as advertiser/source info as well…Purely asinine as it was delivered…no doubt about it!

AMA could have spared a lot of grief and stood to profit substantially if handled correctly. They chose delusion of grandeur as some sort of big business deal instead.

MA could be used to advertise all of their outlandish/worthwhile promotions a lot more cost effectively without getting our hackles up. This particular episode reminds me of a Lucy plan to sell groceries.

Argue that Lucy

Old 01-04-2008, 02:14 PM
  #89  
combatpigg
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 20,018
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?

As always the topic boils down to what is fair, just and morally correct VS what is "legally OK" and what is "business as usual".

I am glad to see the showing of those who think this is a wormy deal.

Old 01-04-2008, 05:28 PM
  #90  
abel_pranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St Augustine, FL,
Posts: 2,644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?


ORIGINAL: combatpigg

As always the topic boils down to what is fair, just and morally correct VS what is "legally OK" and what is "business as usual".

I am glad to see the showing of those who think this is a wormy deal.

CP-

I share your feelings about that showing. Actually, I think the EC got the message in the feedback regarding the unsolicited DVD's, and rue making that deal. Then a new ED was hired and it has been reported that he had a major hand in this one.......maybe the message just needed to repeated.
I hope AMA will get out of the so-called 'affinity program' business altogether. They are all, by the most basic defining feature, a scam to begin with. Somebody with something to peddle but no market because he has no name makes a deal with an organization to use its good name and pretend to be that org. The likely outcome of letting some shyster buy rights to use your good name seems obvious folly enough, but apparently enough $$$$ waved around blurs recognition of that likelihood.

Abel
Old 01-04-2008, 05:33 PM
  #91  
combatpigg
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 20,018
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?

Abel you summed it up very well.
Old 01-04-2008, 07:18 PM
  #92  
Gizmo-RCU
My Feedback: (27)
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Athol, ID
Posts: 2,155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?

After three post cards and now an email today, I am waiting for a phone calll. HOPE THEY DO AS I AM ON THE NATIONAL "NO-CALL" LIST AND WILL MAKE AN ISSUE OUT OF IT. Talk about pushy people, there must be enough profit to warrant all of this activity?
Old 01-04-2008, 07:24 PM
  #93  
The Toolman
Senior Member
 
The Toolman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: The Ozarks, MO
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?

You know what guys, it has been said that everybody has your info anyway. Well, maybe they aren't doing anything illegal, but it just isn't right for the ama to start trying to make $$ off of its members without first asking in a newsletter/MA/bulletin or something to see if there is even any interest in it.

For all we know they could have gave harris the whole membership list an told them to just publish the ones that wanted their name in it. Harris might still have all of the other names that they might use or sell later. Without being a board member or higher up, the members have no idea who else might have accquired that list also, an what they might/could do with it later on.

This kinda stuff goes on everyday in big biz, but it just shouldn't happen in an org like ours without at least getting a feel for it from the people who pay the dues to keep the org up an running every year.

All of these schemes that are going on now (video/directory) sounds like an attempt to shore up screw ups somewhere else.

I would rather see the dues raised a little as to have half a dozen other little things going on.

Remember, once the freqs are all 2.4 in a few years, the only thing the ama will be is mainly an insurance company.


Ronnie
Old 01-04-2008, 07:43 PM
  #94  
Al Lewis
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Port Orchard WA
Posts: 1,791
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?

Well said Toolman but I really don't consider them as much more then a insurance broker now. Bottom line, they work for us, the membership! It is not their job, or in their charter to mislead or otherwise deceive the membership that supports them and pays their salaries. Kinda reminding you of the US Congress are they??? Well maybe they've got the same idea that they are somehow royalty or above the law. Maybe we need a full investigation into their activities to clean house and bring the organization back into the mainstream way of thinking that their MEMBERSHIP has. Let's do a concensus, who wants to see these guys jerked back into reality and reminded that they are servants of the membership???
Old 01-04-2008, 08:24 PM
  #95  
The Toolman
Senior Member
 
The Toolman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: The Ozarks, MO
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?

Lets try it this way...

Who actually thinks they are gonna let anybody see what really goes on...



Ron
Old 01-04-2008, 08:24 PM
  #96  
STLPilot
Senior Member
My Feedback: (21)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan, NY
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?


ORIGINAL: The Toolman
Remember, once the freqs are all 2.4 in a few years, the only thing the ama will be is mainly an insurance company.
Don't want what you wish for. Don't most, if not all states require that you hold at least liability insurance along with a valid drivers license to operate a vehicle. Don't look now but recently the FAA grounded all commercial RC operators and yes, there are more restrictions coming. Who will be ready to acquire all these new pilots flocking to get cheap and organized insurance? Take a wild guess.

Do you actually think the FAA doesn't know about the freedom of 2.4 ghz radios? Do you think they are going to allow the un-organization of radio control flight in this country? I think not. I mean my god man, they've even grounded sheriff's from being able to use UAV's in their own counties for search and rescue.

The more people that think they can just leave the organization of the AMA will only have a wake up call later. But if you think the unlikelihood of the FAA restrictions are outlandish, how do you think I feel about people running from the AMA?
Old 01-04-2008, 08:34 PM
  #97  
The Toolman
Senior Member
 
The Toolman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: The Ozarks, MO
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?

how do you think I feel about people running from the AMA?


stl, As much as I hate to reply to your post.... I would be willing to bet that most people on this forum don't really care what you think.

I believe it is probably in my best interest to red hand you from now on. AMF



Ron
Old 01-04-2008, 08:44 PM
  #98  
Al Lewis
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Port Orchard WA
Posts: 1,791
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?

I feel about the same. The reason the UAVs being sold to Sheriff's Departments are being restricted is because a lot of irresponsible manufacturers are selling them without disclosing the safe operating limits they should abide by. As for all of these changes coming about, I agree with you fully that we need someone to stand up and speak for us. The question is do we want "these people" to do that talking? If they'll sell our personal information how much will it take to sell us out completely? When the cable companies start bidding on frequencies how much "$$$" is it going to take to shut these guys up? We don't know, do we. That's because the average guys only know as much about these people as they've been exposed to and that is, fraudulent DVD sales and the selling off of personal information collected under the guise of doing a nice little feely touchy directory of AMA members so we could all be buddies and see each other's faces. If these people are out there for us then why aren't they in here with us??? Obviously their time is much more important then to waste it listening to the membership. Now that's how I feel about the people running the AMA. My only question is what, if any, connection do you have with them because I cannot fathom anyone defending these type of activities without some form of personal alliance. Could be wrong here, my opinion, but I really can't see it otherwise.
Old 01-04-2008, 08:54 PM
  #99  
STLPilot
Senior Member
My Feedback: (21)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan, NY
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?

If these people are out there for us then why aren't they in here with us???
If there is 1 thing I learned about the RCU AMA forums Al, "us" is not the consensus of this forum. "Us" is the 93% of the AMA population that did not take part in the last election to vote in the EC and new President. "Us" are the ones out enjoying the fruits and labor of the AMA and the manufacturers, who I can assure you who support the AMA. Stick around Al, you'll quickly learn the difference between the attitudes you see on this forum and those whom you meet on the field. There are a few here that use the safety of the computer screen to speak their mind in a tone they most likely wouldn't do in person.

And in regards to selling the list of members to Harris, do you know who Harris is? Do you know how they've operated for the last 20+ years. The only people Harris will sell your names to is back to the members and ONLY to the members who signed up for the program. You should really look into how Harris operates before you pass too much judgement against the AMA. The AMA has done the same thing that many non profits have done long before themselves.

And don't look now Toolman, but at looks at least 1 member cares what I have to say.
Old 01-04-2008, 08:56 PM
  #100  
Al Lewis
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Port Orchard WA
Posts: 1,791
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Membership Directory?

One statement only "YOU'RE THE ONE HIDING BEHIND A CHILDISH NICKNAME, MY NAME IS AL LEWIS" I am retired from the United States Air Force, I work for the United States Department of Defense as a Journyman Toolmaker in the Design Department of Puget sound Naval Shipyard. I design the tooling and machines necessary to repair and refuel our submarines and carriers. NOW, WHO IN THE HELL ARE YOU????

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.