Bob Mitchell

AMA ballots are out, and some of you have already voted. I encourage those of you who have not yet cast your ballot to do so. Don’t be complacent. Cast your vote and take a more active role in determining the future direction of the AMA.

KidEpoxy

Cant. I'm PPP.
It has complacency, and lack of active role in determining the future direction of the AMA
built into it with the absence of a ballot.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

It was your choice wasn't it? Or were you not aware of the restrictions?

Bob Mitchell

One wonders why you chose it.

exeter_acres

My Feedback: (2)

One post.... that didn't take long...

I've already voted!

KidEpoxy

Bob
Pretty sure you've read why I choose it,
perhaps the question you meant to ask was:

One wonders why anyone chose it?

Seeing as you've labled not voting (being PPP at all) as "complacent",
and ask folks to "take a more active role in determining the future direction of the AMA"

If the entire purpose of your thread here is to try to get folks to vote,
then are you not in effect tryin to get folks to Not Be PPP?

And it surely isnt a positive sell,
you hang complacency on not voting,
"Don't be complacent" really translates to "Dont be PPP".

Perhaps you dont see it as insulting to the PPP folks of AMA,
hanging the Complacent lable on folks that dont vote or take a roll in determining AMA's future,
but as a PPP I do find it offensive to have the lable "complacent" hung on me for making the choice(for whatever reasons) to be PPP.

If you want to drum up more AMA voting,
dont spit on the PPP members while you do it.
Especially at RCU where insults (even stereotying bigotry) are not suposed to be posted.




All PPP cannot vote, not just me.
Do you somehow NOT consider ALL PPP complacent for choosing to not vote?
How can you draw the line that the folks(>90% AMA?) choosing not to return a ballot are complacent,
while the folks (1000 PPP) choosing to not get a ballot are not?




Acres-
about 2 weeks, maybe it did take long

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

Could it be that the main reason that some chose the Park Pilot route is that they simply cannot afford a full Open membership?

KidEpoxy

Red
are you suggesting the poor shouldnt be allowed to vote,
but be still be allowed in so Muncie can still take some money from those poor
without giving them the chance to have an "active role in determining the future direction of the AMA"

Am I understanding your position correctly:
It is ok to take money from the poor, but they shouldnt get to vote,
so the line you draw for whom is complacent is based on their wallet.

I'm glad to hear you dont consider me complacent for being PPP (AKA not voting, as seen above)
due to the common knowlege of my lack of cash and employment.

If that is indeed your metric.
<I wont get into how the PPP discount for selling off the vote is really just $2, per PPP faq re: MA>

Stickbuilder

I sent mine in the same day it arrived. The selection for Horrace Cain was checked on mine.


Bill, AMA 4720

Bob Mitchell

No, I asked the question I meant to ask.

I could rephrase it this way, though: Why would anyone who complains about PPP so much choose it over a full open membership.

It's kinda like choosing not to register, and then complaining you can't vote.

Bob Mitchell

Red, I think most people who have participated here for awhile know what you're really trying to get at here. I think it's entirely unnecessary and a cheap shot of the worst kind.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

I am suggesting that people make choices and should be willing to live with what that choice brings. In your case choosing the Park Pilot Program over Open membership, for whatever reason, and then complaining about the limitations is unacceptable regardless of ones employment situation or lack of funds. I would love to see HC's take on this.

Stickbuilder

Red is well known for taking cheap shots here on RCU. He will back shoot you on the District V website as well. This is not meant as a flame, or insult or even an attempt to degrade, or embarass him. It is purely a factual statement. Think I'm kidding? Refer back to the thread on Hurricaine Ike.

Bill, AMA 4720

Kemosobie

I sent mine in the same day it arrived. The selection for Mark Smith was checked on mine.

Jim Thomerson

I think PPP was created to serve people who don't see the need for many of the AMA services. For example, I am a full member becuse I fly competitively. I think this is not a matter of interest to most of the PPP people. I don't think we should criticize people for participating in a program they feel fits their interests and desire for involvment in the AMA. One can criticize, or applaud, the AMA for setting up the program, but that is another matter.

KidEpoxy

Bob Said:

Red Said:
I guess I'll have to spell it out again-
I signed up for PPP which gives me a horse in the race of telling you guys what PPP is like.
You guys that are not, nor have ever been, PPP seems to talk like you know what its like,
but you are estimating, assuming, and flat out guessing or wishfull thinking what it would really be like to be PPP.

I know, becasue I am,
you have to guess, because you have never even tried it.

I learned first hand what it is like, and what about it needs to be complained about.
You guys are armchair QB-ing it.

I have a horse in the race,
you guys havent even been to the track yet.

Get the picture?


And as a shoo-in,
MA is optional for a $26 discount for PPP... that is the big ticket item for me.
$56 PPP with MA
$30 PPP with parkie mag





But this thread aint about KE's tier choice,
it appears to be about Bobs desire to drum up more votes
by insulting folks that choose not vote... like the 1000+ PPP guys.

Robotech

My Feedback: (9)

Gosh man. What does it feel like to be in such a dark, dire situation as a PPP membership.

A tad dramatic don't you think.

As far as influencing the future of the AMA. OK, as a PPP member you don't have a vote to cast but your postings here and sharing your opinions with your flying chums certainly must add up to a greater input than casting a single vote. Don't you think so?

As a side, as pointed out by HC, MA officially lists $18 of an open membership goes to the MA subsciption.

KidEpoxy

lo, the crushing dispair[&o]... doom, DOOOM I say
My only solace in these woeful days is knowing thatthe end is near,
that my escape from the dirges & shackles of PPP is but a few months away with a renewal

But alas
My micro-exodus from PPP wont help those that stay in it,
choosing to not vote by the way some of ya'll talk,
and therefore they will still suffer the slings of folks labeling nonvoters as complacent.

We should start a fund to help those poor people out of thier membership crisis





Yeah, I've read that and mentioned it more than a few times in more than a few threads.
But also officially, the PPP FAQs state we can drop the parkie mag for -$10 and get MA for +$36
A very VERY alacarte option for MA & dues.

abel_pranger

Hey Jim-

Nice post, calm, thoughtful, and well reasoned as usual. Careful........that is out of step with the general tone of this forum of late, and might get you sanctioned.

Abel

Robotech

My Feedback: (9)

My point is/was that you could be considered a lot of things but complacent is certainly not one of them.


My lack of reading comprehension skills have disserved me again. Mr. Thomerson's post indicates that PPP member(s) have been chastised in this thread. Could someone point out the post where this occurs. Certainly no-one is suggesting that PPP members should be criticized for their membership choice. Quite the contrary from the pro-PPP side of the aisle

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

robo, look at post 3, 4, 10 12, 17.
all read as some level of chastizement of the members ppp choice to me.

KidEpoxy

Robo
Good one



Red said
Oh yeah, theres a new twist on a classic mantra:
If one chooses to join AMA, you cant complain about it.
Boy howdy, same schtick, different tier.
The need to silence all oppositing views runs just too deep in some folks.
Red has a good plan, all PPP guys are by choice, therefor no PPP guys may find any faults with PPP.
And the $58 opens chose to join AMA, so complaining es verboten for them as well.
Which makes us all wonder why Muncie would have a program that pays folks to suggest ways to save Muncie money, if no faults may be found by anyone that chose to be in PPP or AMA.





But lets stick to the thread
OP was pretty clear with hanging a negative label (dont be complacent) on folks that dont vote,
which is 1000 PPP guys and ~90% of opens.

When I tried to get out from under this slur, by mentioning that PPP like me cant vote,
we dont see them exclude PPPs from the label,
but we see them attempt to justify the inclusion
by saying it was the PPP guys choice to not vote aka Be Complacent.

LIke I said to the OP
All PPP cannot vote, not just me.
Do you somehow NOT consider ALL PPP complacent for choosing to not vote?
How can you draw the line that the folks(>90% AMA?) choosing not to return a ballot are complacent,
while the folks (1000 PPP) choosing to not get a ballot are not?

Bob Mitchell

I've insulted no one, KE.

All I've asked is why you chose something that you dislike so much.

It's a rhetorical question. I don't particularly care what specifically made you choose PPP over open membership, be it finances, the magazine, whatever. I'm just interested in why you complain so much over something you chose.

Bob Mitchell

Wrong, KE. My how you love to twist something into something else.

You chose to join AMA as a PPP member rather than an Open Member, and you seem to have little but criticism for PPP. That's a totally different thing that what you say above.

But I think you knew that.

KidEpoxy

Totally missd the point there Bob.

When I was $58 OPEN
that garbage about you cant complain because nobody twisted your arm to join
(which is a very recurring theme in the Monopoly threads)
was spewed ad nauseum.

The point is
now they put a slight adjustment on the Chose to join = Lose right to complain garbage with
Choose to join PPP = cant complain.


Also
as I stated above in thread:
You guys are the ones with no horse in the race.
I apparently am the only one here
(since STL is so very special with his commitments re membership teir)
that has the exposure to PPP to make qualified assessment: You guys are outsider armchair QBs guessing and pretending what it would be like to be PPP like me.

Bob, if you wanna know what its like to be PPP,
try it before you tell folks what it is like.
I tried it, so I have the insider scoop you guys Just Dont Get.
And that direct personal experience very much trumps your guesses from the sidelines.

I am not someone that started complaining about the restrictions being lame,
the lameness of the restrictions had been well established here months before PPP was switched on.
I am just chosing to not waffle or flip flop my opinions on that lameness,
unlike so many wafflers here at RCU.



I see folks still want to focus on me personally
rather than address the injustice done to the 1000+ guys in PPP by the OP.
I havent seen Bob put those 1000+ PPP guys that choose not to vote outside of his "complacent" label. So I gues he really does want to slur them for not voting by choice.