Bob Mitchell

Darn. I'm only 13 points away from an all expenses paid trip to Top Gun next year!

Stickbuilder

Robotech

My Feedback: (9)

Or he can fly the same 55lb turbine into your eyeball and you can spend the rest of your days living on the small cap his homeowners insurance pays you.

The first thing he (Toolman) states is that he doesn't care about or need the insurance. Now we have most of a page on uber rehashed hypothetical insurance scenarios and pretzel logic.

He's pissed about a perceived injustice in this forum so he's gonna quit the AMA and only post in the other areas of this site. For chrissakes read his post.

crash99

My Feedback: (3)

Guys,

I think I get Toolman's point. Most of us would not have a AMA card excluding insur. and other clubs req. it to fly at their fields. I pay for my AMA and I could live without MA. I really think most AMA membership card holders could care less about things like AMA Hall of Fame or this program or that program ect... Maybe I am wrong but I don't thank so.

Due to the AMA has opened teir membership up with the PPP (That I support) maybe we could have the "I fly for the fun of it" teir program. I could live without the Muncie site. It would be nice to know how much of the $58.00 per year they could shave off if they took away the cost of Muncie's fields and indoor flying site.

I will assume maybe 3% of the AMA membership uses this location. Why should ALL of us pay for this location. Have a teir membership for those that fly at Muncie. That sounds fair.

Crash99

KidEpoxy

shhesh... Robo
Good thing AMA is not an insurance company,
or we might spend all our efforts dwelling on the fear mongering of shilling insurance as the only good thing about AMA.

I dont consider the amount of insurance the OP stated he had as small,
mainly because I am not making wild guesses and assumptions as to what the UNSTATED amount is. Maybe its small, maybe not, we dont know and WE INCLUDES YOU ROBO.

As for you assuming he has low coverage,
explain why AMA has Site Insurace.
Is it so the landowners dont get sued by someone that got hurt/killed on their property? What is with the millions of Liability the AMA insurance has for the site.... not to be confused with the just 1/2$mil I have as PPP and its $millions.

Could it be that I would simply pull a Deep Pockets and go after the landowner if Toolman put my eye out and his insurance is, by your estimate, insuficient? So you really should be telling his landowner to not let him fly, rather than telling me or him not to fly. If this scenario has flawed logic, I'm sure you'd be happy to show how the $mils of AMA insurance to protect the landowner is bull.

Liability insurance protects the bank account of guy with the insurance, not body of the guy hit.
The AMA shills bandy about the $mils insurance protecting the site, what good is that if a AMA'er puts my eye out..... which goes toward proving I would take the site to court for a pilots action.

But none of that matters.
AMA said all types of flying need massive insurance,
which they repealed with introducing cruddy cutrate insurance for PPP,
showing that landowners dont get what is reasonable or calculated but instead get whatever Muncie feels like giving at the moment. How much insurance is needed? Muncie says 4oz RubberFF & Turbines need the same insurance, but 2lb 60mph parkies get way way less.... explain that to the landowners.

Robo,
you painted a swell picture as to why landowners shouldnt let PPPs fly:
They have inferior actual insurance with the same landowner protections that wont get used?... or will it, when folks go for the deep pockets... as I would do after I use up the could be millions of Toolman insurance.

Great DOOM & GLOOM sales pitch for AMA,
really plays off the earlier good riddance attitude
and saying we have not much to offer.

I cant believe all the negativity fostered by the Muncielovers,
why not be positive about AMA member retention instead.
JimAC, I see you lurking... do something to improve AMA's image of doom&gloom insurance shills that dont care about retaining the guys we have.

Hossfly

Hey toolman, why so low 'Ol buddy? Don't let the turkeys run you off the roost. We still have a few fat hens to go for.

Just think about where we live. Things have recently happened that I never thought I would ever have to be a witness to during my lifetime. I was certain my grandkids would be caught in this nightmare where millions sold their souls for a few alms, yet behold, here you and I are also still here. Yet, I have no intention of packing and running. Where can we go that will be better? So, in whatever situation we find ourselves, I for one can only say let's stay and fight, never say "die", and don't ever let the enemy know if we should be feeling weak, which we are not!

So HANG in THERE, and stay the course. Just keep smiling and let 'em wonder why! [>:]

abel_pranger

Yo Hoss-

I wanted to say something like that to Ronnie, but you said it much better than I could.

Abel

abel_pranger

Amen, KE. Simple truth, but it goes right over the heads of many that post here, including some that I have a lot of respect for. One doesn't get to choose who the guy with 60's era Buick tank sitting on your bumper on the freeway buys his liability insurance from or in what amount, nor can you tell your next door neighbors who they buy from. Just a couple of examples, both of which are far more likely to cause you injury than somebody flying a model airplane. I looked up the HO risks listed by Insurance Standards Org (ISO), to see how they rate model airplane flying - didn't make the top 20 risks covered. Also got my HO renewal and noted that I will pay $20 annually for comprehensive coverage (covers model airplane flying to $300K and all those greater risks numbering at least 20....).
I do pay for another comprehensive PUP above that amount, on a par with the limit AMA insurance provides for one narrow covered risk, secondarily. Interesting to compare exclusions too; HO and PUP exclude me from coverage while flying a model airplane capable of carrying human passengers, period, end of exclusions. How many exclusions can you find in the secondary policy provided by AMA?


Not sure I fully understood your point there, KE. That being the case, I may be out of line in pointing out that the landowner gets coverage up to $2.5 mil, regardless of whether an AMA PPP member caused the liability incident. That means of course that the PPP flyer is at an AMA chartered flying site, else the landowner doesn't have any AMA insurance.

Does raise an interesting point, though. For many years AMA spokesmen (Dave Brown comes to mind in particular) have rationalized the need for for members to have $2.5 mil personal coverage, to prevent the landowner from being a more attractive target for the ambulance chasers (due to having deeper pockets). Guess the EC got so enamored with the PPP pitchman they forgot about that.


Abel

KidEpoxy

yeah, thats the concept I wanted to get across

So according to the pro-AMA DOOM salespitch,
in Robo's example of Toolman putting my eye out and the undisclosed $millions (or parts thereof) of insurance Toolman has doesnt cover my expenses...
I would be the one in the Ambulance,
my lawyer would be the AmbulanceChaser,
and the site owner would be the one with DeepPockets that the ambulance chaser would go after <presenting the shill reason why thethe landowners need $mils of AMA/AMA* site insurance>

Of course, Ronnie could be there with the landowners blessing and trip/fall over a XXX the AMA club has on site. .. which means Ronnie would be getting the money from the AMA clubs site insurance paying for his injuries/damages/MentalDurress.

Rufcut

Hey Ron, no worries. These open discussion forums are for entertainment purposes only. It'll be a hot day in January before I give a second thought to what anybody thinks about the AMA, pro or con. The organization serves a purpose for me and I'll continue to be a member as long as it does.

Muroc1

Was Ron talking about the AMA forum here on RCU or was he talking about his club (that he was dissatisfied with)?

I'd hate to think he would let the folks here make that decision for him.

Frank

Robotech

My Feedback: (9)

Wow. Someone else does get it. Here's his original post and a follow up post.

He's PO'd about this forum and (mistakenly)associates the AMA with this forum. That's all there is to it. Nothing directly to do with insurance, coverage levels, PPP insurance or any other diversions.

The point I was maknig earlier was that if he didn't need the insurance to fly at his club then there must be other reasons he belonged to the AMA. Those reasons have not, or should not have, gone away just because of this forum or the AMA forum over on RCG.

Ronnie seems to be a pretty tough character. He'll be OK and I bet he does renew if he hasn't already.

Muroc1

I see. I was afraid of that.

I guess now he is finally seeing what I have been saying all along. We all represent the AMA to an extent. If we treat others poorly here, what kind of image does that reflect on the AMA and our hobby as a whole? If a hard core guy like Ron, who had been 'round the block, is frustrated by what is being said here, how does it look to a newcomer? Probably like a big pile of poop that he wouldn't want to be a part of.

Some do take the advice and opinions expressed here to heart and that definitely reflects on their thoughts about the AMA and our hobby. I have always believed one should be an ambassador for their hobby/sport/organization wherever or whenever.

Frank

Muroc1

PS I agree. He'll be renewing his membership. No doubt about that.

Frank

crash99

My Feedback: (3)

I am not trying to be neg. on Muncie. I am just thinking there are so many of the flyers that have the AMA just for the insur. and the abilty to fly at the other AMA fields. I just asked how much could be shaved off the $58.00 if the cost of the fields and the cost of the indoor site was taken off.

If I wanted to be Neg. on Muncie I could say the facts of Muncie is open for most but not all AMA flyer groups. I have not seen the profile 3D group event yet. When that happens I will be postive to the Muncie site. But so far I have not seen that event on the AMA calenday.

Back to Toolman. For some flyers the AMA is over priced. For some its under priced. My take is I will pay what ever the AMA asks for every year. We really only have one hard rule at our club. You must belong to the AMA to fly. At the non AMA field close to us they also require a AMA membership to fly as well.

Crash99

Silent-AV8R

Probably not enough to make a difference. The Muncie site is mostly grass, and seems to take very little care beyond mowing. I guess they could sell off everything except the building lot, but I am not sure that is a good idea right now.

The AMA does not go out and recruit groups to come use Muncie. Groups come to the AMA. If there have not been any profile 3D events there it is because nobody from the profile 3D Community has asked to do one there.

Hope that helps.

crash99

My Feedback: (3)

I understand this was brought up. ............................ but, so far nothing on the calendar. I would look forward to attending this event. So I can say it is not for all RC flying groups.

I would still like to know the cost. Even if we took the cost over the past 5 years and ave. it out per year.

Crash99