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Issue of AMA membership revokation.

Old 03-27-2009, 02:31 AM
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littlecrankshaf
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Default Issue of AMA membership revokation.

One of AMA’s notables has made issue about membership cancellation. Here are his words found elsewhere;

Originally Posted by Red Scholefield
From the AMA bylaws:
Section 3. Any individual may be expelled or excluded from
membership by the AMA by a two-thirds (2/3) majority vote of the Executive Council if, in the Executive Council’s determination, such individual willfully commits any act or omission which is a violation of any of the terms of the Articles of Incorporation, Bylaws, or Rules of the AMA, or which is detrimental to the AMA or to model aviation.

“I don't have to disagree or agree with anyone, but when a pitiful few are forming into bottom feeders club with the express purpose of ridiculing the organization then I will feel justified in treating them in the same manner.

And I don't need some sanctimonious twit, new on the scene, telling me how to act.”


Guys,

This particular individual has purposely caused much conflict in my home town between the two clubs here. His meddling has spurred arguments at our flying site. Not only has he emailed numerous members here and spread his personal brand of repugnance but apparently has continued his campaign to include more members relations in other towns. Also, his despicable campaign has been waged here on RCU AMA forum as well as other forums and via their back channels as well.

He has brought great shame to AMA IMO.

Guys, what should be done? Please provide as much info via PMs or otherwise to help us figure out how to correct this issue. I am tired of his continuing harassment as are others I know. This needs to stop somehow. I need advice. Apparently he seems to be above reproach and those that can stop him seem afraid to confront him and shut him down.

This is an AMA issue that needs resolution. Your input is much appreciated.

Mark Humphries
Tyler, Texas
Old 03-27-2009, 04:08 AM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.

Mark,

I seriously doubt that anything will be done regarding this member. You must remember that he shares the confidence of his District Vice President, since he maintains the District Website for the DVP, and is a member of the DVP's board of AVP's as well. Additionally, he does write a column (sic) for the AMA's monthly magazine.

I would estimate that even if the majority of the members of the AMA asked to have this person removed from the membership rolls, you would not see it happen. He is simply entrenched too deeply within the ranks of the movers and shakers. The E.C. would probably look at the situation as him being an old man who does not have all that much time left, and would probably choose to allow time to resolve the issue.

During the time of his constant, unsolicited e-mails and private messages to others, I was the recipient of several of them that he sent. In these messages, he violated the privacy of several members of the AMA by giving me their full names, addresses, and other pertinent (he thought) information about them. These persons included, Jugflier, Abel Pranger, Kid Epoxy, Combat Pigg, yourself and a few others. He went so far as to give me his home telephone number so that we could discuss it further. I can only imagine what he has had to say concerning me, since I fell within his sights.

If you, and the others on board here decide to take action regarding this, then please contact me. I can provide copies of the e-mails where he divulged the personal information on those mentioned. If for no other reason, that violation of the privacy of the membership should be grounds enough for dismissal. Again, I doubt that anything like that happening, since it would require the E.C. doing something that would be on par with eating one of their own.

Bill Hurt
AMA 4720
Old 03-27-2009, 07:59 AM
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Bob Mitchell
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.

Mark & Bill,

While I understand your position, this is not something that I would support.

I think you both know my feelings on this, as I've "called" the individual in question publicly on his attempts to garner support for doing the same to another member, and am in fact the target of the insult quoted in LCS's message above. I've been very vocal in my comments about such on this board as well as RCG. I've also said as much in reply to his unsolicited email requests for assistance, which hopefully have finally stopped.

I think Bill is correct in his assessment that nothing would come of it, and to be honest I don't believe that anything SHOULD come of it, at least based on comments or actions involving postings on internet message boards whether they are public such as this or a private Yahoo group. IMO trying to do such would only be sinking to a common level.

That said, if an individual has been misusing his position as AVP and deliberatly causing problems, that is a different story. However, I'm not familiar enough with what has or hasn't happend to jump on that bandwagon at this point.

My advice to both of you would be to NOT sink to the same level that you perceive of this particular individual.
Old 03-27-2009, 08:41 AM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.

Bob,

I am not in favor of sinking to his level. I merely made the above statements, to show that I think that since nothing would ever come of it, that everyone involved would wind up painted with the same broad brush. It's a no win situation. Hopefully, once Tony sees the comments posted here, he will take the appropriate measures to calm down the situation from his end. Or failing that, perhaps someone a little higher up in the AMA food chain will take some action to calm things down.

You were not on board a couple of years ago, when someone was cashiered in Muncie, and the battle lines were instantly drawn. The ripples are still hitting the shoreline from that one, and frankly, I don't want to see the membership that polarized again.

Bill, AMA 4720
Old 03-27-2009, 09:00 AM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.


ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Bob,

I am not in favor of sinking to his level. I merely made the above statements, to show that I think that since nothing would ever come of it, that everyone involved would wind up painted with the same broad brush. It's a no win situation.
OK
Old 03-27-2009, 09:08 AM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.

I'll add that while there are mechanisms by which a member can be expelled, it is not something that is done very often. It is an extreme action on the part of the EC and they are very reluctant to do it.
Old 03-27-2009, 09:14 AM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.

And they should be reluctant to exercise this option. I don't think that the issue at hand warrants it. It is just the lashing out by someone who never looks in the mirror when he begins to look for someone to blame for what has happened to him.

Bill, AMA 4720
Old 03-27-2009, 09:23 AM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.

Double post. Sorry.
Old 03-27-2009, 10:32 AM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.


ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

Mark,

I seriously doubt that anything will be done regarding this member. You must remember that he shares the confidence of his District Vice President, since he maintains the District Website for the DVP, and is a member of the DVP's board of AVP's as well. Additionally, he does write a column (sic) for the AMA's monthly magazine.

I would estimate that even if the majority of the members of the AMA asked to have this person removed from the membership rolls, you would not see it happen. He is simply entrenched too deeply within the ranks of the movers and shakers. The E.C. would probably look at the situation as him being an old man who does not have all that much time left, and would probably choose to allow time to resolve the issue.

During the time of his constant, unsolicited e-mails and private messages to others, I was the recipient of several of them that he sent. In these messages, he violated the privacy of several members of the AMA by giving me their full names, addresses, and other pertinent (he thought) information about them.
These persons included, Jugflier, Abel Pranger, Kid Epoxy, Combat Pigg, yourself and a few others. He went so far as to give me his home telephone number so that we could discuss it further. I can only imagine what he has had to say concerning me, since I fell within his sights.

If you, and the others on board here decide to take action regarding this, then please contact me. I can provide copies of the e-mails where he divulged the personal information on those mentioned. If for no other reason, that violation of the privacy of the membership should be grounds enough for dismissal. Again, I doubt that anything like that happening, since it would require the E.C. doing something that would be on par with eating one of their own.

Bill Hurt
AMA 4720

Same Here

Ron
Old 03-27-2009, 10:42 AM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.

I am not in favor of sinking to his level. I merely made the above statements, to show that I think that since nothing would ever come of it, that everyone involved would wind up painted with the same broad brush.
I disagree.
We can easily see a division between what is acceptable by folks that happen to be AMA members,
and AMA leadership / control position folks.

The real question is not whether those actions make a person unsuitable for AMA Membership,
but is that the kind of stuff we want AMA Leadership to be seen publicly doing?

There is noting wrong with me griping RCGroups problems publicly,
unless, say... I was a RCG Moderator and was doing it.

Its one thing for AMA members to act in a manner unacceptable for AMA Leadership,
but its another for AMA Leadership persons to act unsuitably for AMA Leadership.

Red is persecuting members for those members opinions,
and I am pretty darn sure Muncie doesnt embrace nor condone
AMA Leaders persecuting members for having opinions.

It is my understanding that Muncie (DM etc) dont have an official problem
with members voicing opinions like in my signature.
Actually, I very confident that my signature line
(something Red bases much consternation and insult on)
is an AMA accepted voicing of opinion & campaigning for AMA change, by DM

So
The AMA position is that my signature is alright.
A person of AMA position in D5 seems to be having a problem following AMAs position on that.
Why would someone that cannot follow AMA policy be in a position of AMA responibilty or Leadership?

We dont really have to Expel Red,
just correct the situation of an AMA D5 position cant follow AMA policy
by stripping him of that D5 position
until he demonstrates that he can not buck AMA policy to persecute AMA members under his own agenda.
Old 03-27-2009, 10:46 AM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.

Bob
on internet message boards whether they are public such as this or a private Yahoo group.
I'm not gonna rehash the whole
Official D5 Board vs Reds Private Playground
situation of the D5Yahoo stuff here,
if you havent read the thread on that I suggest you do and I can give you a link if you need it
Old 03-27-2009, 11:02 AM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.

Give us the link, I haven't seen it I guess


Ron
Old 03-27-2009, 11:27 AM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.

The [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6397209/anchors_6397209/mpage_1/key_banned/anchor/tm.htm#6397209]Red & D5Forum[/link] thread

Lets not rehash that here,
folks that would like to debate on that particular subject
could ask the RCU Moderator to unlock that thread or start a new one.

I just ask that until one reads that thread,
please dont make abo****e statements one way or another about the separation of AMAD5 & that yahoo group.
Old 03-27-2009, 11:44 AM
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Bob Mitchell
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.


ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
if you havent read the thread on that I suggest you do and I can give you a link if you need it
To be honest I've seen enough of his antics to know where's he's coming from. The emails soliciting my help in having your AMA membership revoked told me pretty much everything I need to know, I think. And you know how I reacted to that.

OTOH, I think I agree with the basic content of your other message. I can't agree with revoking someone's AMA membership because of what they post here or wherever. It's another thing entirely, though, to "revoke" someone's leadership position within AMA based on the antics that I've seen here and elsewhere. If he were an AVP in my district I'd be very vocal about doing just that.
Old 03-27-2009, 12:04 PM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.


ORIGINAL: Bob Mitchell



I think Bill is correct in his assessment that nothing would come of it, and to be honest I don't believe that anything SHOULD come of it, at least based on comments or actions involving postings on internet message boards whether they are public such as this or a private Yahoo group. IMO trying to do such would only be sinking to a common level.



Unfortunately for the AMA members here in my town it has gone much further.

AMA Club members that had no idea of this forum or for that matter Red S. was contacted by Red in his campaign to defame myself and our club.

You cannot begin to understand the ramifications and utter humiliation until one day out of the blue, one of your very own club members presents to you the despicable content of an email sent to them from Red. These members were not even aware who Red was, much less anything here on RCU. He has caused enough problems here and elsewhere... somehow his brand of torment needs to end.
Old 03-27-2009, 12:20 PM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.

AMA Club members that had no idea of this forum or for that matter Red S. was contacted by Red in his campaign to defame myself ....
yeah, put me down for getting some of that too
Old 03-27-2009, 12:33 PM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.


ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

Unfortunately for the AMA members here in my town it has gone much further.

AMA Club members that had no idea of this forum or for that matter Red S. was contacted by Red in his campaign to defame myself and our club.

You cannot begin to understand the ramifications and utter humiliation until one day out of the blue, one of your very own club members presents to you the despicable content of an email sent to them from Red. These members were not even aware who Red was, much less anything here on RCU. He has caused enough problems here and elsewhere... somehow his brand of torment needs to end.
That was more than a little low. I would take it up with his DVP. Soon.

Is it just me or is the 'Moderator" label missing from his last few posts?


Old 03-27-2009, 12:40 PM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.


ORIGINAL: Robotech


ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

Unfortunately for the AMA members here in my town it has gone much further.

AMA Club members that had no idea of this forum or for that matter Red S. was contacted by Red in his campaign to defame myself and our club.

You cannot begin to understand the ramifications and utter humiliation until one day out of the blue, one of your very own club members presents to you the despicable content of an email sent to them from Red. These members were not even aware who Red was, much less anything here on RCU. He has caused enough problems here and elsewhere... somehow his brand of torment needs to end.
That was more than a little low. I would take it up with his DVP. Soon.

Is it just me or is the 'Moderator" label missing from his last few posts?



Yes. On or about the 18th of this month his position as moderator was terminated. It also seems to have coincided with his increased lashing out here and elsewhere.
Old 03-27-2009, 12:41 PM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.

Maybe he sent it out to get it washed,
you know, like in Stripes
Old 03-27-2009, 03:04 PM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.

only one way you will ever get the ec to consider seriously the termination of a members status. and that is to tie it to a monitary cost to keep him.
get the petition for revocation of membership made and signed and sent to the ec, and have a class action suit brought against red and the AMA by those that have been harmed by him served to the ec.
then, they will consider it.
dollars are always the answer to tough problems.
Old 03-27-2009, 04:37 PM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder
Mark,

I seriously doubt that anything will be done regarding this member. You must remember that he shares the confidence of his District Vice President, since he maintains the District Website for the DVP, and is a member of the DVP's board of AVP's as well. Additionally, he does write a column (sic) for the AMA's monthly magazine.

I would estimate that even if the majority of the members of the AMA asked to have this person removed from the membership rolls, you would not see it happen. He is simply entrenched too deeply within the ranks of the movers and shakers. The E.C. would probably look at the situation as him being an old man who does not have all that much time left, and would probably choose to allow time to resolve the issue.

During the time of his constant, unsolicited e-mails and private messages to others, I was the recipient of several of them that he sent. In these messages, he violated the privacy of several members of the AMA by giving me their full names, addresses, and other pertinent (he thought) information about them. These persons included, Jugflier, Abel Pranger, Kid Epoxy, Combat Pigg, yourself and a few others. He went so far as to give me his home telephone number so that we could discuss it further. I can only imagine what he has had to say concerning me, since I fell within his sights.

If you, and the others on board here decide to take action regarding this, then please contact me. I can provide copies of the e-mails where he divulged the personal information on those mentioned. If for no other reason, that violation of the privacy of the membership should be grounds enough for dismissal. Again, I doubt that anything like that happening, since it would require the E.C. doing something that would be on par with eating one of their own.

Bill Hurt
AMA 4720
Some people have crossed the line. Quite frankly, if someone posted my personal information anywhere I’d sue. I’d make certain they were tied up in court and spending attorney fees for a very long time.

For the record, one person here knows who I am. It's not that the rest of you aren't trustworthy, but just look at the mess one person can cause.

And also remember, some of us are anonymous and need to keep a low profile for reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with the AMA.




Old 03-27-2009, 04:38 PM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.

Finally a sensible idea...........[8D]



Ron
Old 03-27-2009, 05:13 PM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.

Okay, Let's think this completely through. If we do this, we put ourselves on the same level as is he. He is a fairly harmless old man, and even though, he is definitely a loose cannon, he doesn't have much of a load of powder behind the shot. In other words, he's relatively harmless. Everyone involved, or who would become involved knows all about him, and he's become a joke. I can't speak for anyone else, but that alone should be enough punishment for him. Yes, I have humiliated him before, but this is going way too far. I urge everyone to undergo a cooling off period, and let's not kick him in the head while he's down. I'm going to go on record here as being against taking punitave action against him. He has tried to do several things to many of us, but let's be a bigger man than is he. It's a lifelong hobby with him, and taking his membership away from him would be a heavy price to pay. I think it would be too heavy. I doubt that he will cause any further problems, and even if he does try, the powers that be, both at the District level, and at Muncie know all about him. Let it go. Please.

Bill Hurt
AMA 4720
Old 03-27-2009, 05:47 PM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.

ORIGINAL: Blue_Sky
Quite frankly, if someone posted my personal information anywhere I’d sue.

While I agree that this type of thing is not good, what actionable cause do you feel you have??

Divulging your address is not actionable as far as I know. Beyond that, in civil actions you need to show damages, and hurt feelings or being pi$$ed off do not count. So again, being unhappy about the situation is fine, but get a grip, no lawyer on earth will do anything with this because there is nothing that can be done.

As far as the EC goes, given how reluctant they are to expel a member I doubt there will be much redress available there either.

And really, all this angst over toy airplanes?? I wish my life was as great as the rest of you guys given that this seems to be a major concern for you. I wish something like this could make my top 25 things to be worried about.
Old 03-27-2009, 05:54 PM
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Default RE: Issue of AMA membership revokation.

Stick-

I almost fully agree with you on this, and will act accordingly.

As for my bit of reservation, it concerns this part:

I doubt that he will cause any further problems,............................
I made that same "benefit of doubt" assessment several years ago, thinking he had learned some hard lessons. I was wrong then, misplaced some trust, and per your 1st post in this thread, I know that now. Thanks.

Abel

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