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AMA District X Special Election

Old 09-21-2010, 06:58 PM
  #226  
Silent-AV8R
 
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election

Never mind
Old 09-21-2010, 07:04 PM
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election

I'm repeating myself now.

I have said my piece. I am voting for Mike Brown because he has proven to me that he has the dedication, time, and experience to represent District X.

I urge everyone to vote for whichever candidate they feel is better qualified. I'll leave it at that.
Old 09-21-2010, 07:22 PM
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

ORIGINAL: cj_rumley
but the tawdry show of opposition from Mike's GOBs is in and of itself a clincher.

This from a guy who lacks the courage of his convictions to even use his real name.

If you are going to label me as a GOB in a derogatory manner at least have the guts to call me names to my face, not while hiding behind your Internet persona.

And since when is asking questions ''tawdry''? You like Larry, good for you. But do you even care about how he plans to do any of the things he says he will??
Get real. Your negative campaigning wouldn't be allowed in any AMA publication, and I expect that includes the AMA discussion forum. You know that and that is why you are posting it here to arrogantly end-around AMA stated policy. I hope when Larry gets the position he does some weeding among the AVP lifers.
Old 09-21-2010, 07:27 PM
  #229  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election


ORIGINAL: cj_rumley
Get real. Your negative campaigning wouldn't be allowed in any AMA publication, and I expect that includes the AMA discussion forum. You know that and that is why you are posting it here to arrogantly end-around AMA stated policy. I hope when Larry gets the position he does some weeding among the AVP lifers.
As has been pointed out numerous times this forum is for an open discussion of ideas relative to AMA matters. By your standards none of Larry's posts are allowed either since AMA policy only allows the publication of the official campaign statement. So give it a rest. This is not an official AMA forum and as a private individual I am free to state my opinions. Just as you are.

Old 09-21-2010, 07:35 PM
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R


ORIGINAL: cj_rumley
Get real. Your negative campaigning wouldn't be allowed in any AMA publication, and I expect that includes the AMA discussion forum. You know that and that is why you are posting it here to arrogantly end-around AMA stated policy. I hope when Larry gets the position he does some weeding among the AVP lifers.
As has been pointed out numerous times this forum is for an open discussion of ideas relative to AMA matters. By your standards none of Larry's posts are allowed either since AMA policy only allows the publication of the official campaign statement. So give it a rest. This is not an official AMA forum and as a private individual I am free to state my opinions. Just as you are.

Stipulated that you are free to express your opinions here............and I hope they are copied 5X5 in Muncie.
Old 09-21-2010, 07:45 PM
  #231  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election

There have been too many questions asked without solid answers on many issues facing not just District X but the AMA as a whole. The issue of a West Coast Flying Site is just one of many where answers are simply too vague to have any real substance. What guarantee is there that it would attract major events (i.e., IRCHA or XFC)? What guarantee that the events that do move there won't leave local clubs without badly needed income? As asked above, where would the funding come from if the AMA EC votes against such a site? Do we hit up all the DX members for funds? Good luck getting extra from me, I live on my disability income and don't have any to spare as it is.

Sorry, Mr. Tougas, but I had to go the other way this time around.
Old 09-21-2010, 07:48 PM
  #232  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election

On the subject of negative campaigning, I find it interesting that questioning ideas and qualifications is considered negative. What exactly are we allowed to do? Simply accept campaign statements at face value? I have not said anything here that I would not say to Larry's face. I asked him some of the same questions when I first met him.
So why all the sensitivity from his supporters? Why no answers, just name calling (GOB, arrogant, etc.) and thinly veiled threats about violating AMA policy, etc.?
Old 09-21-2010, 07:52 PM
  #233  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election

Ok you asked for my opinion and I am happy to give it.

A west coast flying site seems to be 2-3 people’s biggest reason for their vote and that is fine. Here are the facts as I see them.

A west coast flying site could happen weather I or any District X Vice President wanted it or not. The first thing that would need to happen would be for it to be brought before the Executive Council at a board meeting. The Executive Council is the governing body for this organization not any 1 District Vice President.
Do I think they would vote for it....not if was proposed that headquarters was going to pay for it. why...because there is no money for it. Membership has been going down for years. You don't build a new building if your company’s income is down and you don't in this hobby either. The Executive Council it trying to figure out ways to NOT have events at Muncie COST the organization now.
I believe you all think there is a gold mine flying field out there. It is a huge expense that has to be maintained by 4 (if my memory is correct) full time PAID employees!
Now don't try and fool yourself you would get volunteer labor for it as we are talking a HUGE site with miles of grass to mow let alone water, power and every other kind of maintenance you can think of going on continually.

How would they vote yes. … possibly....if there was a logical way to fund it. Last time when it was tried over $40,000 was spent for 1 study. As many know a shrimp was found. The AMA would have had to pay $50,000 or more for a 2 year study to continue the project 2 YEARS LATER!!!
How many times can ANY organization afford to do that?


I read one of you say the new VOLT event was a success, that is great. Mike Stroup asked me to advertise it in the District newsletter I created and I did along with putting it on the District Web Site. What if it was held at a membership owned west coast flying site....who's club would have made the money now...NONE.... likely it would go into the budget. Now organizations can hold events at the Muncie site but they have to pay. Its not free. As far as I know it is only free when a member drives up and says I'd like to fly today. If you get enough pilots you could still make money but likely a regular event could make more at your home field.

One other thing. Somebody only saw me 2 times. Id say that's pretty good since I have been all over the country all year. You see unlike a person who has nothing else to do I have gone to Muncie 4 or 5 times this year, and many events that are not flying events trying to promote the hobby, as I am doing this weekend. To me it is important to do the job, not just drive around saying Hi I am Mike vote for me. The event this weekend has a projected 10.000 kids and adults coming. I am taking 250 balsa gliders to build with the kids and 130 foam plates to make FP-9 foam gliders promoting AMA's Aero Lab program to the schools.
But hay I could have gone to a flying event with 25 -40 pilots and say Hi I am Mike Brown will you vote for me..... Where do you think the District's Vice President belongs?

One last thing. I am glad you ALL are passionate about this. It IS a VERY Important position, one I am so proud to hold.
Just vote who is right for you and its all you can do. If the majority picks a guy then he is the guy to have the position.

Good Luck Lawrence



Michael E Brown
District X Vice President
Old 09-21-2010, 08:02 PM
  #234  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

On the subject of negative campaigning, I find it interesting that questioning ideas and qualifications is considered negative. What exactly are we allowed to do? Simply accept campaign statements at face value? I have not said anything here that I would not say to Larry's face. I asked him some of the same questions when I first met him.
So why all the sensitivity from his supporters? Why no answers, just name calling (GOB, arrogant, etc.) and thinly veiled threats about violating AMA policy, etc.?
What the hell........you're supposed to represent them. Seems trite, but ASK THEM.
Old 09-21-2010, 08:07 PM
  #235  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election


ORIGINAL: cj_rumley


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

On the subject of negative campaigning, I find it interesting that questioning ideas and qualifications is considered negative. What exactly are we allowed to do? Simply accept campaign statements at face value? I have not said anything here that I would not say to Larry's face. I asked him some of the same questions when I first met him.
So why all the sensitivity from his supporters? Why no answers, just name calling (GOB, arrogant, etc.) and thinly veiled threats about violating AMA policy, etc.?
What the hell........you're supposed to represent them. Seems trite, but ASK THEM.

You are being obtuse now. You know perfectly well that the "we" I was speaking of are the "we" that comprises the members of District X. If "we", the voters in District X cannot ask questions then it appears that all "we" can do is take the campaign statement at face value.

Old 09-21-2010, 08:15 PM
  #236  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election

This is not doing any campaign any good now guys. Please let it go.

Thanks
Mike

District X Vice President
Old 09-21-2010, 08:33 PM
  #237  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election

CJ and Longbaskt,

You are both lost on the facts. I would love to see another "national" style flying site. The reality is it is completely impractical financially, logistically and geographically. This is not opinion but fact. I do not know the exact amount spent but I believe it was well over $100K. That was just to see if it could be done. It is not a matter of wanting and trying, the obstacles are too great to overcome. Sorry but the truth hurts. This would be a wasted effort in time and money. Sad but true.

Fast forward to now. The economy has hit every facet of life. Discretionary income is down. There simply is no money to acquire, construct and maintain such a site. This is not an opinion, but a fact. Again, I'd love to see it but this is the wrong time in history to even consider something like this. The company I work for is an International Aviation company that has enjoyed great success. Times are tough now. I'm a medical helicopter pilot in the Phoenix area. There have been facilities close as the company struggles through the weak economy. The AMA is no different. Many haven't renewed because they can't. It won't change anytime soon.

We've rode in this rodeo when times were good. They are not good now.

Larry has not once said how he would go about this. I would think that this would be an important question even supporters would want to know.

If Larry wins, I sincerely hope all of his supporters will be man enough to admit defeat when this idea evaporates. And, it will. This will get no support from the EC, guarateed, take it to the ban.

Finally, you can see I signed my name.

Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler, AZ
District 10 AVP
Old 09-21-2010, 08:34 PM
  #238  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R


ORIGINAL: cj_rumley


ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R

On the subject of negative campaigning, I find it interesting that questioning ideas and qualifications is considered negative. What exactly are we allowed to do? Simply accept campaign statements at face value? I have not said anything here that I would not say to Larry's face. I asked him some of the same questions when I first met him.
So why all the sensitivity from his supporters? Why no answers, just name calling (GOB, arrogant, etc.) and thinly veiled threats about violating AMA policy, etc.?
What the hell........you're supposed to represent them. Seems trite, but ASK THEM.

You are being obtuse now. You know perfectly well that the ''we'' I was speaking of are the ''we'' that comprises the members of District X. If ''we'', the voters in District X cannot ask questions then it appears that all ''we'' can do is take the campaign statement at face value.

See Mike's post above. Apparently he went to the "knife and fork school" that you missed out on admission to. Know this: I think Mike is an honorable and well qualified man for the job he is currently fulfilling. It's his fan club I have a problem with.
Old 09-21-2010, 09:09 PM
  #239  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election

I've seen enough. My vote goes to Lawrence. Sorry if my posts offended anyone or started a fire-storm. I have not changed my original assumption of who is better qualified. Good luck to both, whichever one wins. Why either of you want to subject yourselves to this abuse is beyond me.
Old 09-22-2010, 03:01 AM
  #240  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election

What many of you don't understand, is a national flying site is easier than you think. Especially with the right backing from the right people. There is a prime spot in the making for it as well. District 10 only needs someone willing to be open minded to pursue it further.

As far as membership numbers, look to the future. Be ready for it ahead of time. A mass amount of "baby bomber" will be retiring in the next few years. They will want to do something with their time. Model Aviation is one hobby some will enjoy. With the right people the AMA can get prepared for this ahead of time.

Don't forget the other things in Larry's campaign statement, things that are far greater in importance.
Old 09-22-2010, 01:28 PM
  #241  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election


ORIGINAL: TimJ

What many of you don't understand, is a national flying site is easier than you think. Especially with the right backing from the right people. There is a prime spot in the making for it as well. District 10 only needs someone willing to be open minded to pursue it further.

<snip>
Appears so, Tim. From the Apr EC meeting:

"a. Proposal from Bob Reynolds, District X

• M. Brown requested input from Council members regarding the proposal by a member to allow District Vice Presidents the ability, with the club’s approval, to declare a club field as a Regional Flying Site for use by other clubs."


Makes on wonder why a couple of Dist X AVPs are such adamant naysayers when the other DVP candidate proposes a regional site.
Old 09-22-2010, 02:31 PM
  #242  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election

The AMA regional flying site idea wasn't a West Coast flying site idea. It was an idea to allow small clubs, groups of members, or SIG's the ability to use existing larger club fields to hold events (clubs that wanted their fields used, not in any way made to), and all over the country not just in District X. I don't know how many of you know but the way the 1/8th air force does already in AZ.
Personally I wanted to have at the least 1 per state, in District X possibly more in states like California where there are so many miles of state and so many modelers, .....but it was not.... let me put it this way..... the Executive Council didn't want any "AMA regional flying sites".
Personally I like the idea, and its why I supported it and went through all the work making a comittee to study it and present it to council.
I have been asked by Dave Mathewson to change the document and present it to all the council members for input. What it will end up is a document that will aid clubs or those groups that want to do something like this, some guidlines on how they might go about it.
It will become a paper offered through our flying site assistance program. Nothing more. It is still a great idea...I think.

I just had a conversation about a West Coast Flying site with Dave Mathewson. I asked is it possible? He said basically the same thing I said above in my other post. Its not going to happen from members $58 dues. No matter who proposes it.

Now could it, yes. But through Non dues revenue, not through the use of member dollars..
If a group of members were to find a way to raise the funds I would propose the idea to council.

Remember that I said, this will only happen with the support of the majority of the Executive Council. It does NOT mattewr who this Districts VP is, although it will have to be brought to the Council by a Vice President at an Executive Council meeting... which happens 4 times a year.
You folks should be voting on hobby/volunteer experiance, not on who is for or against a West Coast Flying Site.....in my eyes...

I hope this clears up a little of this.

Vote and be proud you did!

Thanks
Michael Brown
District X Vice President
Old 09-22-2010, 03:49 PM
  #243  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election

Most members in D10 have received their ballot this week. Inside the envelope is a blue slip of paper that has Mike and my candidate statements. There was a small error in the printing of my statement. The web address or URL for my website is missing a hyphen in the middle of it. The AMA will be mailing all D10 members a corrected version of my statement along with a reprint of Mike's. You should receive it in the next week. If there is any question the address for my website is;

[link=http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/]http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/[/link]

Please be sure to take advantage of your opportunity to vote.

Happy Landings,
Lawrence Tougas
Candidate for AMA
District X Vice-President
[link=http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/]http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/[/link]
Old 09-22-2010, 04:27 PM
  #244  
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To not misstate what Dave Mathewson said I wanted to post a written description of his view of this subject as it related to my question,
“I would never rule out a West Coast Flying Site or a flying site in any other part of the country. Iit would be difficult to accomplish this today when AMA operates and relies so heavily on membership dues. If we chose to go in this direction the way to accomplish this would be to identify major sources of non dues revenue to help offset the cost. In a global sense, regardless of the issue being discussed, I don't think AMA can continue to provide the services and benefits that we want on the back of membership dues. The Strategic Task Force is addressing this very concern.”

Thanks you Mike Brown
Old 09-22-2010, 05:31 PM
  #245  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election

Thanks for passing those insights along, Mike. It does help clarify things. I do appreciate your position and efforts regarding establishment of regional flying sites. I do understand "this will only happen with the support of the majority of the Executive Council," but I don't think visionary plans should be scrapped in the conceptual stage in anticipation of the EC not supporting it. We need to keep in perspective that the purpose of elections is to get individuals with the members' interests in control of the org, not those that will simply go along with desires of the majority of sitting officers - a vacant chair can do that. Lest there be any misunderstanding, I most certainly do not place you in the 'vacant chair' category; just a comment in reply to some that make too much of a candidate's prospects of "fitting in" with the rest of the EC.

Cletus
Old 09-22-2010, 05:47 PM
  #246  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election

I received my ballot yesterday and it is in the mail. As I posted at the start of this thread I find any effort at any kind of flying national/regional or whatever site with any funding at all from the AMA which the challanger openly admitted was his goal early in this thread completely unacceptable in this time virtual world depression and belt tightening. I also find any time wasted in this by my District VP in this endeaver unacceptable.

I have read everything possible by and about the sitting DVP and find him an excellent choice therefore I have voted for Mr. Brown May he enjoy a productive full term.

John

voting district 10 member
Old 09-22-2010, 07:08 PM
  #247  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election


ORIGINAL: cj_rumley


Makes on wonder why a couple of Dist X AVPs are such adamant naysayers when the other DVP candidate proposes a regional site.
CJ, you apparently only see what you want. I am not against a Regional site. There are two different issues. A national site similar to Muncie is what was nearly a reality in Visalia CA many years ago. That is what I believe Mr. Tougas is trying to go after.

Then there is a Regional type designation. Hell, we can do that now. It is nothing more than an RC field that we give a title. It is far from a site capable of doing everything like Muncie.

Tucson TIMPA could get this designation but you couldn't do more than one type of event at once.

My assertion is that a "NATIONAL" type site is not practical.

Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler, AZ
District 10 AVP
Old 09-22-2010, 09:48 PM
  #248  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election


ORIGINAL: RV7guy


ORIGINAL: cj_rumley


Makes on wonder why a couple of Dist X AVPs are such adamant naysayers when the other DVP candidate proposes a regional site.
CJ, you apparently only see what you want.
It would be nice if that were closer to truth.

I'll resist the urge to continue what has become an off-topic drift and go direct to a concluding opinion that is topical: Mike will fare better in this endeavor without the "help" he's been getting from you and Malvey.


Old 09-22-2010, 10:43 PM
  #249  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election


ORIGINAL: cj_rumley

It would be nice if that were closer to truth.

I'll resist the urge to continue what has become an off-topic drift and go direct to a concluding opinion that is topical: Mike will fare better in this endeavor without the ''help'' he's been getting from you and Malvey.
So sayeth the anonymous one.

Oh well.

Vote early and vote often. Mine is in the mail!
Old 09-30-2010, 09:39 AM
  #250  
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Default RE: AMA District X Special Election

Dear District X Members,

The air will soon become crisper and the leaves in the trees will burst into color. We are very fortunate here in District X that our flying season is so long. I spoke with our President Dave Mathewson last week and he mentioned in his part of the country that they can see the end of flying season approaching.

You should have your AMA 2011 renewal in hand and your ballot too which is a postcard attached to your renewal. If you have not received either I suggest you call the AMA at 800-435-9262 select extension 290 and speak to Shawn Grubbs. Shawn will provide you with a replacement ballot and handle the renewal too.

You have also probably received a corrected set of candidate statements. There was an error made on the candidate statements that were included with the ballots. Inside the envelope is a blue slip of paper that has the candidate statements. There was a small error in the printing of my statement. The web address or URL for my website is missing a hyphen in the middle of it. This reissue of the statements is to correct this error. If there is any question the address for my website is;

[link=http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/]http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/[/link]

Please pass this information on so that the voters will have the correct information upon which to base their vote. If you would like to see a more complete statement that is not limited by the size requirement for statements included with the ballots or in the magazine please click [link=http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/2010/08/following-is-campaign-statement-that-i.html]here[/link]. If you would like to know more about my background you can click [link=http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/2009/08/my-background.html]here[/link].

Last weekend was a busy one for me. I traveled to Orange County on Saturday to meet the Trabuco RC Flyers. They are an active club that works very hard to build ties to their community. Their President Eric Nelson and the members I met were just a great group of people. If you would like to read about it and see some pictures please click [link=http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/2010/09/trabuco-rc-flyers.html]here[/link]. On Sunday I drove down to Livermoore to visit two clubs that really go the extra mile. They are the East Bay Radio Controllers, and the Livermoore Flying Electrons. I made a write-up in my blog covering my visits, to read about them please click [link=http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/2010/09/active-rc-clubs-in-livermoore.html]here[/link].

Please let your fellow modelers know how important it is to cast their vote and please ask them to cast their vote for me.

Happy Landings,
Lawrence Tougas
Candidate for AMA District X Vice President
[link=http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/]http://ama-district-x-election.blogspot.com/[/link]

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