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AMA forum censorship

Old 08-01-2010, 09:56 PM
  #26  
dbcisco
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RCU didn't censor me, the AMA's forum did. No expalanation, no email. Just delete and lock.
I would be impressed if they even answered my formal requests with more than "its somewhere on the website."

As for clubs, it is their perogative if they have a reason for particular rules. If it is little more than I don't like those "toys" then the AMA should have a mechanism for over-seeing clubs. What if a club decided they didn't want Jews in their club. Would everyone wait for a court to tell them to do the right thing or speak up? Or is that a clubs perogative? Yes, that takes it the extreme but remember that in a democracy "the Majority rule only so long as it does not interfere with the rights of the minority." Funny how nobody remembers the last half of that.
Old 08-01-2010, 10:07 PM
  #27  
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My mistake. The AMA Forum is run more like the Pigs did their business in Orwells' Animal Farm.
All are created equal, but some are more equal than others......

Back to how clubs run their clubs..I suppose if there was a civil rights infraction it would be up to those watch dog agencies who make it their business to carry out that kind of justice. In the mean time, all any club has to say to any applicant who they do not like for any reason is "Sorry, all full". And that is too bad, but that is the way it should be in a free land.
Old 08-01-2010, 10:11 PM
  #28  
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ORIGINAL: dbcisco

The AMA's forum demonstrates that they do not want any members questioning any thing. My post where I answered a question about an AMA administrators position on PPP was deleted and the thread locked. Why are they trying to hide the facts?

AMA EVP Horrace Cain: ''……….I have no real interest in the individual that has no interest in the real model aviation world. If one cannot afford full AMA dues, and an annual club dues of $150.00 per year which may have to increase soon, then I will do whatever I can to send these persons to another place to play with their toys.”
That he was elected by a maority vote, it stands to reason that the mojority of AMA members feel the same way.

Oooohh, Mr. dbcisco, man you have posted some excellent information in several other threads, however I do think you busted the above quoted research. Even Brad Paul thought I would find this funny. I do, but I'm sorry that you goofed this one so big time. [sm=frown.gif]

I do run for AMA office every so often. The first time ever, back in the 1977, I was elected to the AMA Dist. VI DVP position. Then elections were each 2 years vice current 3 years. I turned the show upside down so much the "Nominating Committee" (the other DVPs) kept me off the ballot for reelection. I was reelected by the voting members on Write-In. In 1981, while not on the freq. committee, I was instrumental in obtaining the final release of the new frequencies. In 1982, I resigned from the DVP position, a number of factors involved, mostly personal.

FYI, the AMA Nominating Committee simply selects up to 3 individuals that have been nominated by AMA members, for a place on the ballot.

Since then I have run for several offices but have not been elected. Yes, I am accused of not being people friendly. That may be correct, but I tell it like it is, and if the folks choose to not like it, then I don't have to do all that work. When this AMA goes belly-up and organized aeromodeling ceases, well, all the good folks that only vote for some smiling face that slaps their backside will just have to endure reality.

Ref. your quote from me: If you don't like my position, vote against me. That seems simple enough. Yes, I like folks that take their hobby/sport seriously. 2-300 yankee dollars a year for organized modeling is peanuts when one considers all other serious sports. Golf "Green Fees" cost a few $$$$ more but folks play every week. Chartering a boat/guide for a day's fishing will darn well get into your pocket-book a tad more! Modelers that spend thousands on a model, yet P&M about a couple hundred $$ to have a nice place to fly it, really do bore me. [sm=devious.gif] Some folks buy tickets to a Ball-Game that one game would pay a year's dues to AMA and a Club.

Now, would you prefer that I lie to you, and do as politicians do, tickle your chin, pat your behinder, get your vote then tax you another 30% ad valorem, fuel, income and the list goes on? So, as a candidate or if elected, I will tell you the truth, as I know the truth, and it's up to you what you wish to do with that truth. One truth is that the AMA Hierarchy certainly loves it when I don't get elected. That I can prove. [sm=47_47.gif]



Old 08-01-2010, 10:17 PM
  #29  
dbcisco
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Well, that isn't just flying clubs. I am sooo glad I don't need a club. I had been on the board of an NPO that wanted discriminate based on age. I made it clear that if they allowed such actions I would call my friend who needed some Pro Bono work and publicity. They quickly voted the against the motion to restrict membership based on age.
Old 08-01-2010, 10:26 PM
  #30  
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Default RE: AMA forum censorship

I suggest everyone stop responding to this thread and it will surely go away. Anyone can post, post and keep on posting. to themselves.

There are too many other areas to spend ones time rather than entertain one braying voice.

Thanks...Bo
Old 08-01-2010, 10:47 PM
  #31  
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Default RE: AMA forum censorship

Clubs are entities unto themselves. they are not regulated by the AMA, other than the rules required by the AMA to be a Club, as specifically written by the AMA. Membership will never be run/decided by a minority of members, even if they are a minority. The Tail Does Not Wag the Dog. Clubs are also responsible for their actions and subject to being sued. If you dont think clubs are not aware of that fact, you are mistaken. If you took the attitude you currently have to any club, you might not be a member long. And I am sure it would be done in such a way as to make any suit very tough. Most people dont like the Drama Queen mentality. It sucks the life out of taking it easy and having a good time, no mater what you are doing.


Vince
Old 08-01-2010, 11:02 PM
  #32  
dbcisco
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ORIGINAL: vpresley
If you took the attitude you currently have to any club, you might not be a member long. And I am sure it would be done in such a way as to make any suit very tough.
And thus we can justify racism and genocide as long as the majority are for it.
Yeah, throw them jews and blacks out of your club but do it in a way that you won't get caught. Its OK.
I need a shower after reading your filth!
Old 08-01-2010, 11:23 PM
  #33  
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Nope, talking about Drama Queens. Nuff said.



Vince
Old 08-01-2010, 11:30 PM
  #34  
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Default RE: AMA forum censorship


ORIGINAL: dbcisco


ORIGINAL: vpresley
If you took the attitude you currently have to any club, you might not be a member long. And I am sure it would be done in such a way as to make any suit very tough.
And thus we can justify racism and genocide as long as the majority are for it.
Yeah, throw them jews and blacks out of your club but do it in a way that you won't get caught. Its OK.
I need a shower after reading your filth!
Why do you hate Jews and Blacks?
Old 08-02-2010, 12:05 AM
  #35  
dbcisco
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ORIGINAL:
....Drama Queens....
I see, the gentleman is saying he wants to exlude gays, not jews or blacks. I guess that makes it OK then.
I apologize you aren't justifying discrimination for race or religion, your just a gay basher now.

"What a maroon" B.Bunny
Old 08-02-2010, 07:58 AM
  #36  
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ORIGINAL: dbcisco

Well, that isn't just flying clubs. I am sooo glad I don't need a club. I had been on the board of an NPO that wanted discriminate based on age. I made it clear that if they allowed such actions I would call my friend who needed some Pro Bono work and publicity. They quickly voted the against the motion to restrict membership based on age.
Can anybody of any age join the AARP?, Cub Scouts?, Jaycees?, etc.


Old 08-02-2010, 08:15 AM
  #37  
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Default RE: AMA forum censorship

Mr. Cain was the District Vice President of his district for a period back in the seventies or perhaps the early eightys He resided in a different district then but do not recall which.

Care to provide a link to the thread and the post number that you quoted from so one may see the entire context of that statement an not just what you edited.

John
Old 08-02-2010, 08:54 AM
  #38  
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Default RE: AMA forum censorship

ORIGINAL: dbcisco


ORIGINAL: vpresley

Well I believe it is available if you look, per Silent-AV8R. As for Mr Cain, well he is just your normal person, nothing special. Puts his pants on one foot at a time like the rest of us. His opinions carry no more weight than the rest. Have you talked to your AVP, Anyone at AMA, before your post?
1.If it so easy to find why didn't you post a link, be a little helpful.
2.Yeah, like the Kennedys had no power until John became president. Mr. Cain is higher up the chain than most other members and his voice is heard much better.
3.Got little to no response from the AMA on anything except being told to go to the documents on the website. Total farce.

So many attacks, so little help. Thanks.
no offense , but if you are not 100% with your facts then why are you have a rock throwing contest against AMA or one person ? i'm getting the feeling no mater how many facts discrediting your statement you just keep blaming everyone else. the fact is that you don't really know if he said it or not , do you? i defend AMA !! if it wasn't for them , we would all be flying gillows gliders now most likely . they have work tirelessly to insure the government doesn't pull the plug on our hobby as some in congress has tried . oh you didn't know that did you. there was a long debate in front of congress or the senate as to weather we would continue to fly or not and it was AMA that that fought and won our right to fly. so show a little respect. if i'm wrong on any account , i am open for correction . so little help? you shouldn't need help if your right. and as far as attacks.... your on RCU ,it's part of game lol everyone gets attacks . even if your right lol
Old 08-02-2010, 08:58 AM
  #39  
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Default RE: AMA forum censorship


ORIGINAL: vpresley

Clubs are entities unto themselves. they are not regulated by the AMA, other than the rules required by the AMA to be a Club, as specifically written by the AMA. Membership will never be run/decided by a minority of members, even if they are a minority. The Tail Does Not Wag the Dog. Clubs are also responsible for their actions and subject to being sued. If you dont think clubs are not aware of that fact, you are mistaken. If you took the attitude you currently have to any club, you might not be a member long. And I am sure it would be done in such a way as to make any suit very tough. Most people dont like the Drama Queen mentality. It sucks the life out of taking it easy and having a good time, no mater what you are doing.


Vince
very well put . ... the biggest problem with clubs etc. is there's people in them
Old 08-02-2010, 11:40 AM
  #40  
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Default RE: AMA forum censorship


ORIGINAL: Muroc1


ORIGINAL: formerbug


Go ahead and look me up, I don't have many posts. I'm very new to the hobby, but I don't think I have to be a vet to wonder why you're always so negative. FWIW, I joined the AMA just this week (am waiting for my card), and as soon as I have my proof of membership, I'll be joining my local club. I look forward to it, and I hope that meet people that have a better attitude than you. It's supposed to be FUN!

Good for you and welcome aboard!

You are absolutely right. This hobby is supposed to be fun and these RC forums are supposed to add to the fun and excitement of this hobby by sharing thoughts and ideas with fellow modelers. Don't let the ''glass is half empty'' crowd get you down. Life is too short for that and enjoy the little time we all have here on earth doing things that you like to do.

Frank
Yep!!! My thinking exactly...welcome aboard. In general I think you will find modelers are a pretty good bunch of people

I've been flying RC/CL and FF since the 60's and an AMA member since mid 70's. Yes there have been a couple bad apples along the way but the vast majority of folks I've come across within the AMA have been well meaning, reasonably well informed and straight forward to deal with.

Over the years I've heard the name "Horace Cain" before. Don't know anything about him though so I can't offer any suggestions. BUT tend to agree with some of the other posters on the subject matter...If you are going to bash someone, please get your facts straight.

On censorship, it is possible to be censored by RCU. I know of one noted modeler that appears to have been. I don't know the underlying reasons why a certain individual gets censored. If an individual uses the medium for undisclosed carry out of personal agendas and vendettas, do you blame RCU's management? And what does that mean exactly? It just means you can no longer post anything on the pages.

In AMA, I've seen it happen once in my 35+ years as member. That's after a thorough investigation and discussion first and then agreement within the organization. This means much more because the member's active status gets jeopardized. It is not a matter to be taken lightly since the potential outcome could be very costly to the AMA and its membership...US, the rest of us.
Old 08-02-2010, 11:45 AM
  #41  
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ANYONE WHO LISTS HIS TRAINING AND EDUCATIONAL ACCOMPLISHMENTS ON HIS POSTS HAS A REAL SELF ESTEEM PROBLEM WHICH IS MOST LIKELY REFLECTED IN THE CONTENT OF HIS POSTS .
Old 08-02-2010, 11:49 AM
  #42  
dbcisco
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I'm off this thread.
To those that provided real information and valid comments (even disagree with me) I thank you.
To those who think the AMA is perfect and that the RC aircraft hobby could not exist without the AMA, I leave you to your delusions.
To those that do nothing but bash anyone who questions the Almighty AMA, Satan has a special place just for you.
Old 08-02-2010, 12:08 PM
  #43  
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Default RE: AMA forum censorship

(quoting dbcisco from Post 22)
I stand corrected. Horrace was niminated but did not got elected.
So much for beleiving things I read on RCG.
I still find it sad that nobody berated him for his comment.
Silence is usually much an indication of agreement.
Haven't seen many here disagree with his comment either.

I'm still waiting for the AMA to respond to my inquiries regarding PPP.

< Message edited by dbcisco 8/1/2010 10:37 PM >
I mention this only in regard to the bold (my emphasis) text above. An old friend, recently deceased, often bombarded me with opinion. I seldom bothered to respond in writing, and when in person would often roll my eyes.

He voiced the same thought, that silence indicates agreement. I had to inform him in no uncertain terms that silence is NOT an affirmation. I told him that if people were not verbally agreeing ("Amen to that!" or "You got that right", or "Yep." ) then they are not in agreement.

Yah, he didn't pay any attention to that. He was still my friend, til the day he died, but his assumptions were incorrect.

Best wishes,
Dave Olson
Old 08-02-2010, 12:45 PM
  #44  
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Like any other organization, the AMA has it's flaws.  The day you find any perfect organization that includes homosapiens look around because your probably in heaven.  I have many issues with the AMA and I have occasionally bashed them......BUT, no one should ever start crap about any one person until they speak to that person directly and get the facts worked out first.  The only way to get the legit info on this problem is to somehow, someway talk directly to the person of interest (Mr. Cain in this instance).  If no one on this thread can personally say they know exactly who, what, where, when, why, and how Mr. Cain really is, then we might as well go back to high school and learn the gossip/ rumor mill lessons all over again.  I was always taught to go to the source of a problem first before you ever open your mouth about your problem with that person, place, thing.......whatever.  That's my story and my experience and I'm stickin to it ya'll    
Old 08-02-2010, 01:14 PM
  #45  
dbcisco
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I just need to address the silence issue then I'm done. As a point of law, silence is often taken as agreement. Case law may illuminate this. n the '80s the Pennsylvania wanted to use eminent domain to take prime farm land to put in a highway. The Amish attended all the meetings and remained silent in the room. In old German common law silence was a demonstration of disapproval. However, in the US it is a demonstration f lack of objection. The land was taken by the state "without objection".
Whatever your coloquial use of words and phrases are, do not expect others to interpret them the same way and never assume that the courts will agree with you.

Case law IMHO trumps all, I'm done.
Old 08-02-2010, 02:01 PM
  #46  
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Default RE: AMA forum censorship


ORIGINAL: Hossfly


ORIGINAL: dbcisco

AMA EVP Horrace Cain: ''……….I have no real interest in the individual that has no interest in the real model aviation world. If one cannot afford full AMA dues, and an annual club dues of $150.00 per year which may have to increase soon, then I will do whatever I can to send these persons to another place to play with their toys.”
That he was elected by a maority vote, it stands to reason that the mojority of AMA members feel the same way.
Ref. your quote from me: If you don't like my position, vote against me. That seems simple enough. Yes, I like folks that take their hobby/sport seriously. 2-300 yankee dollars a year for organized modeling is peanuts when one considers all other serious sports. Golf "Green Fees" cost a few $$$$ more but folks play every week. Chartering a boat/guide for a day's fishing will darn well get into your pocket-book a tad more! Modelers that spend thousands on a model, yet P&M about a couple hundred $$ to have a nice place to fly it, really do bore me. [sm=devious.gif] Some folks buy tickets to a Ball-Game that one game would pay a year's dues to AMA and a Club.
Mr. Cain, if that is indeed your viewpoint then I can only say I find it reprehensible and utterly disgraceful coming from somone who supposedly supports model aviation. Basing whether someone is "serious" based on how much they can afford to spend on their hobby is, in a word, contemptible. Rest assured that should you ever bother to run for an AMA elected office again I will do my dead level best to see to it that you are not elected. Were it within my abilities I would see to it that you were censured by the AMA, if not outright dismissed and banned from ever becoming a member again.

Your views DONOTrepresent the best interests of the AMA or model aviation in any way, shape or form.

Old 08-02-2010, 02:17 PM
  #47  
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If only you could hear how unAmerican that sounds. Banning someone from the AMA for expressing his view point that is a threat to no one. I don't know what country you're from, but that isn't the way we do things here.

We won't go into the hard work and good that this guy has given in his lifetime to the AMA and the hobby.
Old 08-02-2010, 02:22 PM
  #48  
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ORIGINAL: Tarasdad




Mr. Cain, if that is indeed your viewpoint then I can only say I find it reprehensible and utterly disgraceful coming from somone who supposedly supports model aviation. Basing whether someone is ''serious'' based on how much they can afford to spend on their hobby is, in a word, contemptible. Rest assured that should you ever bother to run for an AMA elected office again I will do my dead level best to see to it that you are not elected. Were it within my abilities I would see to it that you were censured by the AMA, if not outright dismissed and banned from ever becoming a member again.

Your views DO NOT represent the best interests of the AMA or model aviation in any way, shape or form.

If you look real close you will find others, that are held in very high regard and therefore intrenched within the organization, that have very similar stances...the $ numbers vary but the sentiment is the same non-the-less.

Yes, suction power works great for some of those for sure but at least Hoss isn't covertly applying suction as the others do. We now have low time members, with very little understanding of our hobby or the AMA sucked into a position...thaaaat should of some real concern...
Old 08-02-2010, 03:23 PM
  #49  
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Always got something to say. About what mark?
Old 08-02-2010, 03:24 PM
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ORIGINAL: combatpigg

If only you could hear how unAmerican that sounds. Banning someone from the AMA for expressing his view point that is a threat to no one. I don't know what country you're from, but that isn't the way we do things here.

We won't go into the hard work and good that this guy has given in his lifetime to the AMA and the hobby.
I, sir, am an American. A Native Texan, as a matter of fact.

My view differs from yours in that Isee Mr. Cain's viewpoint as destructive to the AMA. As someone who has been an elected official in the past and one who continues to run "on occasion" his attitude has a very real possibilty of being presented INANOFFICIALMANNER as that of the AMA when nothing could be (or SHOULDbe) further from the truth. The AMA supports ALL aspects of model aviation, not just those approved of by Mr. Cain.

As for the good he's done, well I'm sorry but all that counts for naught when you start denegrating part of the hobby. Whatever he may have done in the past his apparent attitude now runs counter to everything the AMAstands for.

I stand by everything I said.

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