Jim Thomerson

Peeople who don't know the AMA exists (97.4% of the people in the USA) are unlikely to want to join up.

dbcisco

The way the AMA markets itself (preaching to the choir) it never will.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Oh come on now...I'll bet 98% of the guys who get into a .40 size on up model know all about the AMA. Let's not look at this from a preposterous angle.

dbcisco

I got to agree with you CP. To grow more there needs to be growth in the market at the higher end (requiring a club). While the analysts claim the "hobby" is growing they are not commenting on the different segments of the market. I have read here about a lot of IC guys switching to electric and parkflyers are growing rapidly in popularity. So, while the hobby grows the AMA doesn't. Makes a lot of sense. If a million new park fliers are introduced and only a dozen IC, then the hobby is doing fine, not going to help membership in the AMA though.
As long as the focus of the AMA is flying that requires a club/AMA membership then I can see the membership continue to erode.

starfire73

Three ways to gain more members...

1) Lower the cost dues
2) Lower the cost of dues
3) and finally... yea, lower the dues

I don't belong for one reason alone. I am on a somewhat tight budget, and I would much rather spend $58 on something that flys rather than a card that sits in my wallet.

Make the dues $19.95, and give me a subscription to an online members magazine. That's good enough for me. But until they get the cost down to $20 a year, I won't renew my AMA.

I've had this discussion at the field before, and a fella' looks at me like I'm cheap (and from Mars), and tells me how much we put into our planes. And says; "Hey, what's $58 bucks?" This coming from a guy with a 33% Extra 260, who dumped more money just in servos for it, than I have in my entire 40 size airplane. It takes me a year to put together a plane, because I buy it by parts at a time as I can afford them. Don't tell me it's not the cost of the membership... oh yeah, I have to figure another $40+ a year to belong to the club. Which I can't afford, and therefore fly somewhere that's not an organized club.

Lower the dues!

fcomer84

A lot of good ideas here. I hope someone is listening!! The layered expenses thing (club dues, plane, equipment, AMA membership, even travel time) needs to be addressed somehow. I tell everyone that shows an interest to expect to shell out $500 right off the bat. Compared to bowling ball and shoe rental that is quite a hit!

dbcisco

Cost depends on a lot of things. There is no easy answer.

From:
RC flying : $100 RTF and go to the park.
Building: $20 balsa kit at the LHS and some simple tools and glue.

To:
BS in Aviation Maintenance : $13,000/yr at Penn Tech

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Lowering the cost of AMA dues is not going to be enough to get people to drop whatever it is they already do with their free time and switch over to flying .40 size models. The cost of dues is a drop in the bucket compared with the overall cost of this sport / hobby.

dbcisco

If they dropped the American Disco Association membership to $5 would you then be compelled to take up disco dancing?

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

I've always wondered how many of the folks who compain about the dues spend $50+/month on cable, $50+/month on their cell phone, $50+/month at the Casino, movies, or eating out.

In my neck of the woods even a 30 day YMCA membership is $71. Gas is $2.50/gallon!

Geez people is $58/year really going to too much to ask? I think $58 a year is a bargain

!

dbcisco

Dollars to donuts if they dropped AMA membership to $10 they would still keep losing members. The guys that have been doing this ever since it was possibly the number one hobby in the USA are getting very old and the younger people are not that interested in big megabuck planes and clubs when they can buy an RTF on-line for under $100 and go fly in the park or farmer's field.

Hossfly

CP, I agree 100%. AMA dues are not any biggie. OTOH, if one makes this hobby expensive then the sky is the limit.
One can really fly for very little cost if one just wants to fly, and have money for dues for less than $100 if one has a radio and an engine.
I can take a cardboard box from a junk yard, , a sheet of foamboard, some scrap plywood, a couple dollars worth of glue and tape, and a roll of shelf paper from the $1.00 store and in a day I can have a real nice .40-.50 airplane, 500-550 sq. ins wing-area, 50-55' span, along with some other odd parts in the scrap box and its ready to install the engine, tank, and servos. 2 days from $-store to flying field and less than $15.00 at the most for the airplane.

Good running .40-.60 engines are plentiful on eBay and can be had for less than $50. I have recently picked up some for under $35. I have sold some for around the same price.

I picked up a brand new JR 6 channel transmitter without batteries for 95 cents + postage. Some discount 1500 mah Nmih wired up and added a crystal from old stock and it works fine. Usable servos are readily available. A .40-.50 flies fine on old standard servos. All the stuff about what one MUST have is like selling women a new dress for each night-out. Just ain't so.

However your comment about:
I wish we had a way to confirm that because I would bet almost the opposite. I doubt that 30% of the actual modelers have any idea about AMA as we know AMA the Academy of Model Aeronautics. Club people and AMA members know, but they are a very small number of those that play and tinker with the hobby.

dbcisco

A partnership with manufacturers to put an AMA pamphlet in the box with their products might spead the word.
Try all the other good suggestions everyone came up with.
....
Nah, lets just keep sending emails to current members and advertise in MA. []

vinnielopez

My Feedback: (7)

Ok this is what I have observed lately I have not flown in ten years and I'm getting back into this as we speak. Over the last few weeks I have observed a couple of things.
#1 Honestly a lot of modelers are not as friendly or helpful as we think. We tend to see things from an inside perspective we fly with our friends we joke laugh check out each others planes. Now from an outsider trting to get in it's different he or she shows up at the field to observe or maybe to try to seek help he's likely not getting at the local hobby shop. Nobody greets him or her other than maybe a nod or a walk-by hello. Another problem I have seen is a very militant type attitude new flyers are greeted with what I call the speech. "well you need to go get your ama then you need to find the club president or some ranking member of the club to give you another speech and fill out paperwork for a "pit pass" then good luck finding these so called mentors or instructors to help you. Also a lot of clubs (not all) are run like condo associations by by some cranky individuals that don't make you feel welcome at all. It's not what you say but how you say it.
#2- after spending a lot of money getting the items needed to fly there is still the ama dues and club dues. My wife asked me how much does the ama cost? I said $58.00 she imply replied with Da&#!

As stated earlier I think the members themselves are not only killing the AMA but the hobby itself.

This was my observation years ago and it's getting worse.
Flying fields are almost like surfing it can be territorial and non locals are at a big time disadvantage.

And by the way I called the AMA the other day to find out what my number was and after being given the number there was no friendly "thank you for considering renewal or is there anything else I can help you with?" she just hung up the phone no good bye or have a nice day just a click of a phone hanging up.

This is what I have observed now let the flames begin

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

This did not apply to me, because I am one of the guys that did not know about AMA until I did research and went to the closest RC club to me. I had no clue any such org existed at all. If it were not for the fact that the nearest club required AMA for me to fly, I would simply not invest the 58.00. As a matter of fact I would have known nothing about AMA. It is just that simple. Why would any of us pay for something like this when we don't have to?

Our club told me that you need the AMA for the insurance and that is why they require an AMA membership. Now, after reading these forums and everyone (not inclusive) stating that Home Owners insurance winds up paying, I am asking myself what am I paying for?

I don't desire an RC museum, nor do I desire air shows in Muncie, if I choose to buy a mag I would do so, but don't want one in membership, etc. If I remember correctly it was free with my membership at no additional costs. I could go on and on and what the AMA does not do for me as an individual in RC. I am not being mad that they have these things and they are great for some people, it is just not something that benefits me as an individual that wants to fly RC planes, or does it? I would opt out.

On the other hand, if they educate and if they do make flying RC easier for us (this would need to be verified) then I am for it, but would still retain the right to join and not some mandatory requirement by my local club.

I am not sure I am even into promotion of the RC hobby unless it somehow benefits young people to gain more life skills. If not, leave it as it is. It is just like golf, baseball, or any other hobby. I am not into promoting those either. We can choose to partake or let it go.

Some might say, "You should promote AMA for the good it does." Well, a lot of orgs do good and need promoting. What is wrong expecting a benefit when you join an org? We have every right to get something for the money we invest!

To have clubs require AMA, is a bit over-the-top in my book especially since it seems the insurance won't really benefit anyone. I did read on a post on the forum that one individual did get money from AMA's insurance carrier so I might be off-base on this.

Again remind me, exactly what is it that am I paying for AMA to do in my benefit?

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

We have about 68 members in our club. By observation I think about half or more of our members do desire newbies to get involved and probably believe in promoting the hobby as a whole. As far as the AMA, I have not heard many comments about it. I think most just considerate AMA as a necessary expenditure. This is a rough guess though and no real analysis done.

The ones that really don't care just don't say much, but sometimes you can tell by their actions they are not overly friendly when new people show interest. The club has enough flack within its membership without even going outside It took a while for them to warm up to me as a member but in time most have become very friendly. To me, that is just differences in people.

If club members are hurting the hobby that would be more detrimental to all of us that love RC. I would be curious as to what ways you think they are hurting the hobby?

vinnielopez

My Feedback: (7)

They are hurting the hobby because a lot of the guys that were around 20 years ago when I first started flying are all gone now they passed away or got out of the hobby and sadly some of those guys were not friendly at all. What the hobby needs is not people that warm up to newbies but people that welcome them by the time one person sticks around 20 have walked away from the hobby because of the unfriendly enviroment. And as far as the AMAthats 20 lost memberships.

804

My Feedback: (1)

So do you think it is something peculiar to this hobby that makes folks unfriendly, or belonging to the AMA makes folks grumpy, or what?
Could it be that is it just human nature, and that grumpy people can be found anywhere, anytime, just itching to whiz in your Cheerios?
If it is the same now as 20 years ago, do you think it will change?
Is AMA to open a club finishing school to polish up all us old poops?


This is not directed at you vinnielopez, but I see a lot of the same sentiment in these threads:

I just cannot for the life of me understand why folks let the actions, opinions, moods, or whatever dictate how they have fun.
If you wanna fly, you're gonna go fly.
If you're such a wall flower that other folks just being normal other folks scare you off,
then you probably don't have what it takes succeed in this hobby anyway.

Very little the AMA does or does not do is going to affect the hobby, or the AMA numbers.
I keep seeing "the hobby is growing, but AMA is not."
I don't believe it.
The hobby may be shifting to the smaller electrics so that folks don't need to fly at AMA clubs.

The hobby and AMA will be just fine.
Both will (and always have) find their own equilibrium, and along the way
will ebb and flow just like everything else in this world.

fliers1

What makes club folks grumpy is fear of change and if the stranger needs flight instruction. Despite what anyone claims, few, if any actually enjoys teaching people to fly.

Now if everyone thought that the hobby and AMA will be just fine and there is indeed serious trouble for the hobby/sport and AMA on the horizon and no one feels a need to try to do anything...well they were certain that the Titanic was unsinkable.

BTW, there is a means to a possible solution, but no one wants to talk about it.

Fliers1

tinner1

A lot of posts keep repeating the same thing about club members not being friendly. I am NOT supporting their rudeness, but let me offer one suggestion as to why a lot of club members may be cool towards new people. Example:

A good friend of mine moved to Florida 10 years ago. He used to complain that his neighbors weren't very friendly towards him or his wife and kids. After some years his neighbors warmed up and are now some of his best friends. They explained their "cool" attitude this way.....So many people move to Florida, can't take the heat and humidity then move away, that they are tired of making and losing friends. They wait till the new neighbor stands the test of time.

Again, I am NOT saying that a bad attitude is OK, but there may be a reason for it. I personally have a trainer just for new people interested in learning to fly, and I take it with me every time I go flying. It's an Elder 20 with a FMA auto pilot in it, almost impossible to crash. My phone number is listed on our club activities board, and web page. I am retired and live 5 minutes from the field, and can usually be there before anyone who contacts me wanting to try flying. Of the 2 dozen plus people I have instructed, only a few have continued in the hobby. I have made and lost a lot of new friends this year, so that is why I suggest that may be why some aren't very friendly to "new" people. Many of my clubs members ask me why I "waste" my time with newbies, for the same reason......My answer is I love modeling and want others to enjoy it as much as I have.

804 You posted while I was typing my post but I think you are "spot on" with your comments.....

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

804/tinner, I think you both are nailing it home. It is about human nature and how that must change. I don't hang out with too many older folks. Let me explain. I am turning 56 soon and when I mean older folks I am usually referring to retired 65-70+ group.

I have found that in most circles that age group (and even younger) can have quite the edge on their shoulders and most often do nothing about it. It would not matter if they were in RC or the local golf club. I still think they need an attitude adjustment on basic life skills. They are just not a group that enjoys "warming up" to new people unless they think you are in the "boys club". I am not a "warmer" either, but I believe in respect and make sure I practice doing right to the best of my abilities.

You sort of have to get yourself "tested" before they will welcome you into their inner circle and you will rarely ever get all the way in. It is just the way it is. Does that make it right? No, not at all. I have had them walk literally within three feet right by me and say nothing only to talk to the person right behind me. That really irritates me and I just don't think folks should act that way.

There are many things that make folks act that way and the one that is the worst is selfishness. You find out how to influence change in that area and you can get people to change how they treat others. Heck, if you don't care for yourself how will you give a rat's patooey for anyone else?

OK, rant done

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

Good for you, tinner1. It's good to see folks actively promoting the hobby the way you do and when I retire I hope to do the same. Great answer to club members who consider you wasting your time. I hope they realize that just becaue someone might not "jump-in" to the hobby right now it doesn't mean they won't come back at a later date. It's far better to give anyone a warm and welcome exposure to the hobby than it is to push a hard sell. I find the hard sell an absolute turn-off for me.

KidEpoxy

ok, back to solutions we can try-

Can we get this painted over the front doors at Muncui-
"..you probably don't have what it takes succeed in this hobby anyway"

as a solution,
that will keep out the guys that we prejudge as being the ones that will leave
.... and by discriminating against quitters ( or Termino-Americans as ACLU would have us call them) we can have a membership free of quitters,
thus a membership that wont decline
qed



Is that blue phrase
An attitude muncie wants the members to stand behind and hold the line,
or
An attitude muncie wants the members to leave behind and move forward
?

804

My Feedback: (1)

It is just the truth. Deal with it.
We don't have to have everyone in the hobby.
We don't have to be salesmen.
Some are just not cut out for this.

For there to be a solution, there has to be a problem.
What is the problem?
Human beans can be jerks?
No kiddin?

Edited for things I shoudn't have typed.

dbcisco

I am going to open a new can of worms here.

Why does the AMA need to grow anyway?