We have no problem with quadcopters and planes with cameras. But like I said, our field sits across from an active heliport, the largest marina on the east coast and a county park all on the shores of the Hudson River. We have a great view of it all at our field. The owner of the heliport had alot of doubt when we started up our field. They used to fly over it on their landing approach. I had him up to the field a number of times to show him that we fly in a specific area in front of the flightline and not beyond certain limits. After five years, we now have their trust that we are responsible and come down when we hear a helicopter approaching. In the past we did have some people flying FPV and they were unable to follow the rules. They weren't trying to break the rules but it did happen. In our case we just can't have that. We have competitive pattern fliers at the field that use up alot of air space as well as 42% stuff. They present no problem, so it's not like we live in a sterile environment. We as a club try to accomodate what we can. But I'm afraid that FPV is something that we cannot. Like I said, I don't know many people that would want to invest in FPV just to fly on the club field.

From your posts I can only assume you have a lot of input about how your FF operates.

I sure do, I'm the president, founder, grass cutter and the person who has to answer to the Town. We fly off of a closed landfill, in our area there is no place else to fly. People sometimes think that if something happens "that's what insurance is for." Again, some flying sites are in the middle of nowhere and if someone was to fly too far out no one would notice. We simply have too many things to consider.

Thanks. It helps to understand your position.

I think I get it. You don't want people flying multi rotor with FPV. You may want to use the false thinking its unsafe and it Will cause your club heart burn. It is your right to post no multi rotors allowed at this ultra safe flying club.

What is the results? Pushing them away to fly at parks, back yards, and other much more public areas is great for your club and the hobby. I am sure the newspaper and or TV Station will take in account your club when reporting their story. No, they will not even think about the club at all. Then people living near your club will start getting concern about your club being so close.

Look, there are items to be concern with like people trying to fly a multi rotor, heli, airplane using a 2.4 GHz radio with a GoPro 3 camera. The new GoPro can streams video on 2.4GHz. If the multi rotor did not have return to home or return to home not setup or flying with a receiver that has no fail safe option. That can turn out real bad. Remember the club pushed them away to more public areas.

For those that did not push people away, they can teach them this is a very, very bad idea. Those are the good AMA fields. Those clubs are the clubs that increase the AMA membership.

Crash99

If people choose to fly out of their backyards or a park that's on them. If someone will fly from a park, why would they want to fly over a flying field? That's my point, or better yet let those who choose to fly where they want go out and establish their own flying field. And yes we do have a safe club, but how do you think the operator of a full scale heliport would feel about people flying FPV right next door? Again, no witch hunt here, but why would someone invest in technology like that just to fly oversome grass and a swamp? And as far as the media connecting a club to this activity, so be it. It's not allowed here end of story. I and the board of my club have looked at this issue and have determined that it just doesn't fit our area. Take a look at our web site and judge for your self. HVRCC.COM

My Flying Brother, I did not mean to offend you but just point out an issue. The risk is to any club that will push someone away. I will soon have over $1000 in my quad / FPV system and I'm going to fly it. If not at my local club, LORCS in central Missouri, I'll fly it somewhere. BTW, if you are in the area please stop by and fly with us. We exclude no one here as long as the have an AMA membership.

Once a person wants a club to be gone, they must have a reason like noise. That alone has killed some clubs here in the US. Now if there is a story showing a safety issue then that makes it easer to get a club to close or move.

With some restrictions, you could allow them to fly like requiring a Naza with gps type controller and a fail save RX to fly multi rotor aircraft. You can require all pilots to enter into their Naza with GPS type controller a max hight of 121 meters and 804 meters for distance. You may also require a demo of a return to home to make sure their system meets that requirements.


Then you you could bring them into the club. But again the local club has the right to exclude if they choose to.

Crash99

Great work, Mr. Bruceal. I definitely admire your discipline rather than retreat from a few that think the world belongs to them. Your Club Board is to be commended for holding the ground FOR THE CLUB rather than for SOME that think any club is fair game for THEIR specific desire. Hang in there! :cool:

At the rate that technology is progressing in RC it is going to be very interesting times ahead. My crystal ball shows multi axis stabilization and GPS waypoint control as becomming standard on all airframes in the timeframe of 5 to 10 years. When FPV technology improves video to sterioscopic with full head tracking and depth perception as integtated "plug and play" then we will be at a tipping point.

As I mentioned previously I put a EagleTree Guardian unit on my Senior Telemaster. I can trun final line up trun on "heading hold" and "horizon hold" drop the throttle and it lands itself with no stick input. Next will be a FPV video system with head tracking. Will I go beyond LOS? not intentionally ;)

Of couse any Club has the right to set it's own rules based on their individual circumstances and face the age old issue of "growth" vs "stagnation". I would bet that there were simular conversations in the early days of "radio control" from the majority "free flight" and "control line" members.....

Now Horrace, that sounds like you promote excluding AMA members wanting to fly their aircraft of choice. Please tell me that is not correct. That would be a shame. I hope I got that wrong.

in this forum it is asked why is the AMA not growing? But it is growing in areas like 3D that many clubs have excluded. Now it appears the Multi Rotor group is growing and needs to be brought into the AMA to increase our numbers. Multi rotor just like 3D are not going away so clubs have a very simple choice.

I can not say to any club good job that exclude AMA Members over what they enjoy in our hobby. Me, I fly for the fun of it and I am a member of a club that everyone enjoys being around each other. We help each other when needed and rib each other when we have a chance. We have many that come on their vacation and will bring a aircraft or two to enjoy flying with our group. It is a very fun AMA club.

There is some items we hold firm like having an AMA membership. We find that if your a member of the AMA you understand what you should do and what you should not do. Maybe it's the attude of our group that results in not having to have problems that many clubs see. Our club promotes AMA membership but every club will need to make their own choice.

Crash99

Thanks Mr. Crash99, we have the same come with your card and fly policy. I hope you had a chance to visit our web site and get a better idea of our location. As you can see we are in a very scenic area. I myself would be tempted to fly out and check things out. It's just human nature. There are places that are great for FPV that don't have to be restrictive but we're not one. And thanks Mr. Hossfly for the support! Our club is very diverse, we have the older guys flying old style electric stuff, a few competive pattern fliers, giant scale, heli's etc. We owe it to all of them to do what we need to keep our field. The other thing is that we fly on Town property. That means that they don't really need a reason to give us the boot. But we are a proactive club. Every August we do an air show for the Town. They come with a grill on a trailer and give out free hot dogs and soda. This year they passed out over 600 hot dogs. We also set up a separate flightline this year and put 100 people up on the buddy box. so we do alot for the hobby and the host Town. All of that is well and good, but we all know that when things are good they are good. And when they go bad they go bad fast! Maybe one day we can allow FPV, but for now we have to say no. Have a great Christmas and a Happy New Year!

I did visit your site. Looks like a great place and I was happy to see profiles and 3D being permitted to fly there. Merry Christmas to you too.

Crash99

How are people incorporating Quads into the pattern at their fields ?

We usually take turns flying. We have three flight stations but like to give people space. We let heli guys have the field as well as quads to themselves.

I've got a question, I see a lot of people saying that earning money in the hobby is not hobby related or puts you outside the bounds of the hobby and AMA when people have been earning money flying models forever. If you are a photographer and operate as a hobby, you can still sell video or pictures you just have to report the income on IRS forms under "other". Show me the law in the FAA or anywhere that says you will be prosecuted or fined $10,000 for accepting money for your RC hobby. Be specific please, no opinions, I'm trying to find a specific law.


Thanks,
Luke

Thanks Crash99, we have some really good people in the club. We also have some really good heli guys.

It is not necessarily law but the AMA insurance will not cover you when earning money other than described below.
I think that is enough to say flying over farmers crops or cattle for money is outside the Hobby as your hobby insurance won't cover it.

You can earn money with the same aircraft you fly at your AMA sanctioned field but you can't do it at the field and you would want to be covered by some other form of insurance for you business activities. JMO

From the 2014 AMA insurance document:

"• The policy does NOT cover business pursuits; that is any activity that generates income for a member beyond reimbursement of expenses, except this business pursuit
exclusion does not apply to individual members providing modeling instructions for pay
to AMA members."

No form of model aviation could possibly be more exciting than flying my $1000 quad copter within the strict boundaries of my $100 per year club field. Our field is a perfect rectangle that measures 1/2 mile x 1/4 mile and I have conquered flying over every square inch of that hay field with my $1000 quad copter [and of course that's with all of it's fail safe systems in place].
It's just an awesome sight and every flight is absolutely thrilling as I send it out on it's "patrol missions" to fly over and take video of every blade of grass that's out there.
Guys from the club never fail to stop whatever it is thay're doing to watch me and my magnificent model "droning up a storm" out there.

Yes indeed, VERY exciting. It's so much fun watching paint dry, it's totally memorizing. Just gotta love it.

I am totally "pushing the envelope" right now. I've got it programmed to fly consecutive loops through a pup tent and back out again..in and out, in and out, in and out, in and out, etc. I've got a "spotter" who has counted over 2000 loops so far and there is a waiting list of guys who want to be my spotter when this guy's turn is over.
This thing is just super "BOSS", man.

Yes I understand the need for business insurance, but under that AMA definition AMA events that pay the winner a cash prize would not be covered. I also understand the need to have permission to fly over any given property. If I have insurance, fly on a property under 500ft with the owners permission and receive compensation how is that a criminal offense? I want the law and the law that imposes fines. I know the FAA is looking to make all airspace navigable airspace down to the ground, so you will need permission to build a dog house, but that is something else.

combatpigg you crack me up!

The FAA recently announced that it is OK to use drones on private property for any legitimate non-dangerous purpose as long as safety rules are followed. There is no criminal offense. As far as I know, there never was a law against flying over private property, with permission. The only legal risk that you might incur would be if you caused damage. And, even that would be very fuzzy at best.

I don't think there is a law against it either and I'm sure there are additional rules on the AMA site covering competition prizes. I would think that you agree if the AMA insurance will not cover you that you are operating outside of the hobby?

I have been approached by a local farmer inquiring about surveying his crops. If I flew over only his property (within reason) and was paid for that service it would not be a big deal. If I was doing it with a turbine helicopter and crashed igniting his hay field the AMA won't help and I better have the money to cover it or some sort of business insurance as you mentioned.

I'm not a lawyer but after seeing first hand how the AMA insurance works in an accident scenario I wouldn't count on them treating you like USAA or Geico will when you have an accident or mishap.

Just wondering if you might expand on that a bit as that seems very important to most here in their justification of how things should be.

According to the AMA, they will only payout if whatever you were flying was done so following their guidelines. For FPV, the model must be kept in sight by the spotter. So all of those videos you see on Youtube are not covered. Many people also don't know that AMA insurance is your secondary coverage. First is your home owners policy if you have one. However, if you are a club officer the AMA is your primary. A nice reason to be an officer.